My heart is broke, the girls are fighting again.

[JaquelineC]

[quote name='pitbullEmily']I'm so sorry for all of you. I hope your son won't be too scarred by this.

We all need to heed the lesson here. When you have dogs that have demonstrated this level of hatred for each other, they must be separated at all times. No letting your guard down!

It's possible to maintain this level of dog-household management, but it's certainly beyond what most people can deal with.

again, my sympathies.[/quote]

Good post PBE...

I don't want to be the 'bad guy' here, but why on earth were those dogs allowed access to each other to fight again after you KNEW they would fight if given the chance...?

My dogs have never 'gotten into it' - And they will NEVER have the opportunity to do it again if it happens once (as they would be kept separated at all times from that point on).

So sorry for your situation, I hope your son is ok.
:(

[Smooshie]

I'm so so sorry about your situation...I can't even imagine how you all must be feeling, and my deepest sympathies go out to you and your family. :(

The bottom line is that X's safety is priority ....I'm assuming that it was Patti that bit him this last time, since she is being quarantined??

I know this must be so difficult for you, but it seems like this is what is best for everyone involved.....you did everything you could for Patti, and maybe even kept her a little longer than you should have because it was hard to "give up" on her. Don't beat yourself up over it...it is very hard to accept that a furkid that we love is potentially dangerous. You did the best you could for Patti, given the circumstances.

Your family has some healing to do...I wish you all the best.

[xavierandrea]

JaquelineC.
I think you are missing the point that my girls didn't always fight. Always when they did begin fighting nothing became of it. My girls were best friends at 1 time. I had all the dogs in the house because I was working on the stay command. I am glad that your "GUYS" never got into it!!! If you asked me a year ago I would have said the same thing! Unless you are in my shoes DO NOT JUDGE ME!!!!!!!!!! No one wants to find out that there beloved pet has gone crazy!
My son is doing fine. He says he stills loves all of them!

[Guest Anonymous]

I'm very sorry for this.

I do hope X is okay with this. X is the same age as James and I can tell you James was SNAPPED at one time by a 4 month old pup.

This puppy was a foster dog that I brought in and he wanted to play wiht her so I allowed it (who would think a 4 month old would go after someone right). He had her out back and kept coming in telling me "Mom she keeps jumping at my hands biting me". I blew it off as puppy playing. I wish I had listened. He brought her in and went to feed and crate her. As he was opening the sample pack of puppy food the rescue had given us she went for his face. He stumbled backwards and she kept going at him. I pretty much threw AJ in his play pen (AJ was only a couple of months old) and ran over there I grabbed the pup to put her in her cage as I was closing the door she went for my hands.

She was put down that day.

Okay the dog situation is NO where near the same but the kid is......James told me he wasn't bothered by it and he realized something was wrong with that pup. To this day if a dog goes anywhere near his face he cowers and covers his face with his arms.

So please be aware that even though X says he loves the dogs there maybe still some residual fear for a while especially if he is caught in a corner near a dog or any similar situation. James is great with dogs he loves them probably more than he should but he still has issues with them near his face.

[JaquelineC]

[quote name='xavierandrea']I think you are missing the point that my girls didn't always fight.[/quote]

The last time they fought your son was bitten. [b]I'm wondering WHY the dogs were able to get to each other again after that point[/b]. You didn't say one rushed out the door or busted out of a crate to get to the other, from your post it sounded like they were loose together.

[quote name='xavierandrea']Unless you are in my shoes DO NOT JUDGE ME!!!!!!!!!! [/quote]

1) You see, I would never BE in your shoes, because MY dogs would've been separated [i]permanently[/i] after the FIRST sign of aggression towards each other.

2) When you post your business on the internet, you are putting yourself out there to be judged. If you don't want someone questioning why you had two rotts that hate each other (have fought before, and have injured your child during one of these fights in the recent past) in a situation where they were able to fight [i]AGAIN[/i] for [i]TWENTY MINUTES (?!)[/i] and injure your son [i]AGAIN[/i] - [b]DON'T POST IT IN THE FIRST PLACE[/b].

I can't believe that no one else has commented on this. This is one of the most irresponsible posts I've seen in a while.

[quote name='xavierandrea']No one wants to find out that there beloved pet has gone crazy![/quote]

Blaming it on your dog for being crazy...! You know what I think is crazy...?

Not separating those rotts the first time they showed signs of aggression towards each other! They have showed you repeatedly that they DO NOT LIKE each other and that they WOULD fight if given the chance - Things escclate to the point where your son is bitten TWICE within a short period of time and then you start screaming 'Insanity'?!

[quote name='xavierandrea']...Always when they did begin fighting nothing became of it.[/quote]

What did you think would happen? The fights would get LESS intense over time if you just let them 'work it out'?

I'm sorry, but I just don't understand all of the sympathy going around here. This situation was 100% preventable, and you brought it on yourself.

Let the flaming begin...
:(

[__crazy_canine__]

Ummm... Im sorry to ask this XavierAndrea but how did they get in a fight again? Maybe I missed this detail somewhere but I thought you were keeping them seperate?

Well, Im sorry it ended up this way. My best wishes to you and your family and I hope Patti has a good time before she goes. :( :angel:

[__crazy_canine__]

JC, ok yes it was her fault for not sperating them but dont you think she feels bad enough already?!? Back off a little bit... she needs some support right now not bashing, even if it is truthful. Sorry xavierandrea but she does have a point. :(

[JaquelineC]

[quote name='__crazy_canine__']JC, ok yes it was her fault for not sperating them but dont you think she feels bad enough already?!? Back off a little bit... she needs some support right now not bashing, even if it is truthful. Sorry xavierandrea but she does have a point. :([/quote]

I understand that she feels badly. I'm sure I understand her situation better than she knows…

My intention is not to make her feel worse, however I don't think that portraying herself as the victim in this situation is right.

It was NOT just a 'bad dog' - And this COULD HAVE been prevented...

I think it's important that she know that and hopefully use it to make better decisions in the future - Not make it into a 'poor me' pity-fest.

I wasn't even going to go 'there' - But her response to me made me feel the need to attempt to deliver a little 'wake up call'...

Whether or not she acknowledges that and learns for her mistakes will be her decision.

Sorry for ruffling any feathers, but I felt that something needed to be said on this point.

[xavierandrea]

JC-
I never asked for PITTY! I asked for advice on how to deal with the situation. If you feel that I am looking for PITTY you can forget it because I am above that! I am sure I know my own situation!!! NOT YOU! OK. I never said I was the victim here. Patti is the victim!!! If you think that everyone who is looking for advice is portraying themselves as VICTIMS your far from the truth. It is obvious that I am doing something now to correct my mistake!!!!!!!!!!!

P.S. No need for your WAKE UP CALL!!!! I'm a big girl and I can wake myself up!!!!

[JaquelineC]

[quote name='JaquelineC'][quote name='xavierandrea']I think you are missing the point that my girls didn't always fight.[/quote]

The last time they fought your son was bitten. [b]I'm wondering WHY the dogs were able to get to each other again after that point[/b]. You didn't say one rushed out the door or busted out of a crate to get to the other, from your post it sounded like they were loose together.

[quote name='xavierandrea']Unless you are in my shoes DO NOT JUDGE ME!!!!!!!!!! [/quote]

1) You see, I would never BE in your shoes, because MY dogs would've been separated [i]permanently[/i] after the FIRST sign of aggression towards each other.

2) When you post your business on the internet, you are putting yourself out there to be judged. If you don't want someone questioning why you had two rotts that hate each other (have fought before, and have injured your child during one of these fights in the recent past) in a situation where they were able to fight [i]AGAIN[/i] for [i]TWENTY MINUTES (?!)[/i] and injure your son [i]AGAIN[/i] - [b]DON'T POST IT IN THE FIRST PLACE[/b].

I can't believe that no one else has commented on this. This is one of the most irresponsible posts I've seen in a while.

[quote name='xavierandrea']No one wants to find out that there beloved pet has gone crazy![/quote]

Blaming it on your dog for being crazy...! You know what I think is crazy...?

Not separating those rotts the first time they showed signs of aggression towards each other! They have showed you repeatedly that they DO NOT LIKE each other and that they WOULD fight if given the chance - Things escclate to the point where your son is bitten TWICE within a short period of time and then you start screaming 'Insanity'?!

[quote name='xavierandrea']...Always when they did begin fighting nothing became of it.[/quote]

What did you think would happen? The fights would get LESS intense over time if you just let them 'work it out'?

I'm sorry, but I just don't understand all of the sympathy going around here. This situation was 100% preventable, and you brought it on yourself.

Let the flaming begin...
:([/quote]

Do you have any response to any of the things I have written here?

[quote]P.S. No need for your WAKE UP CALL!!!! I'm a big girl and I can wake myself up!!!![/quote]

I hope, for the sake of your dogs and your son, that you wake yourself up a little sooner next time around.
:(

[LisaH]

JaquelineC..here is why she said the dogs all together.


[quote]I had all the dogs in the house because I was working on the stay command.[/quote]

xavierandrea...

Please see if there isn't any way to board Patti at your vets. 10 days is a long time to keep them separated without any accidents happening.

[xavierandrea]

LisaH.
We have an outside kennel that I will be using for Patti and also if weather is not permitting I will have her on the front proch. Since it is summer here I beleive the kennel is suffice.

[Guest Anonymous]

It seems to be common practice here especially if the Animal Control is contacted.

When that dog went after my son I took her straight to the vet and had her put down. There was no waiting. BUT in the case of an actual bite they want you to wait the 10 days to see if Rabies develops.

Many times they will also just put the dog to sleep but still send the brain off for testing.

I've seen this with dogs having their shots and those that don't.

Tells me that they really don't trust rabies vaccination.

[Smooshie]

I believe it is mandatory here in the states K to impound an animal that has bitten or has been suspected of biting someone for a 10 day quarantine period, even if the dog has been vaccinated.

here is a snippet of the Florida law:

[quote] (a) The department of animal services and its animal control code enforcement officers, law enforcement officers and humane officers of state chartered nonprofit humane organizations shall have authority to pick up, catch or procure and impound any animal found to be in violation of this article, any animal infected or believed to be infected with rabies or other contagious or infectious disease to humans or animals, or any animal suspected of biting a human, in such manner as is reasonably necessary to effectuate its capture. Impounded animals shall be confined in a humane manner at an animal shelter. Animals impounded at an animal shelter shall be made available for public inspection in order to allow the owner to reclaim their animal. An animal impounded for the purpose of rabies observation shall not be moved or released from the place of quarantine unless permission is first obtained from the director of animal services. The director may approve an exception as to the above-required place of confinement for dogs, ferrets, or cats having a current rabies vaccination administered by a licensed veterinarian.

(b) Unless otherwise provided by this article, an impounded animal shall be held for at least five days, including the day of impoundment, except that those dogs or cats impounded for the observation of rabies, or those dogs, ferrets, or cats impounded which are licensed or which the owner thereof can otherwise be identified, shall be held at least ten days. The depositing of a letter of notification by first class U.S. mail shall constitute adequate notification of impoundment. The owner shall also be notified by telephone, if possible. This section shall not apply to animals surrendered by the owner or an agent of the owner, in which case disposition may be made as provided in this article without notification or a holding period. At the expiration of the holding period, during which time a diligent attempt has been made to locate and contact the owner, the animal may be disposed of in the manner provided in this article.

(c) A registry shall be maintained by the impounding agency. The registry shall contain identifying characteristics of each animal impounded along with the location, date, reason for each pickup, and final disposition, to include name and address of the reclaimant or adopted. A copy of the registry shall be provided to department of animal services monthly, and be made available for inspection by the department at the impounding agency, at any time, upon the department's request. The records shall be maintained by the impounding agency for two years.

(d)If an animal bites and causes injury to any human, the animal shall be immediately impounded for rabies observation and quarantine, if necessary, for the proper length of time or held for ten days. Thereafter, the animal shall either be returned to the owner or destroyed in an expeditious and humane manner in accordance with the provisions of this article and F.S. ch. 767, when applicable.

(e) Any owner or person having custody of an animal suspected of biting a human, who fails to surrender the animal to the department of animal services for impoundment or inspection when requested by an animal control code enforcement officer shall be in violation of this article.

(f) For violations of this article, an owner may be subject to a written warning or such penalties as prescribed in this article, in addition to or in lieu of impoundment of the animal.

[/quote]

[Sarahstaff]

The laws dealing with rabies are pretty archaic, hence the mandatory quarantine even in cases like this where the reason for the bite is fairly obvious. (at the vet hospital I worked for, we once quarantined a dog who bit a tech while under anaethesia at another vets... what I never understood is why they reported it.)

It does bother me that, given the 2 incidents in such a short span of time, the dog is left quarantined at home. I'm concerned for the safety of your son. I think you should see if the dog can be quarantined at the vet's.

[MajiesMom]

This is a truly unfortunate situation. I have to agree with JaquelineC 100%
I almost barfed when I read that a fight happened again and then I did barf a bit in my mouth when I looked down a little and found out that the dog has to be PTS.
I’m guessing they quarantine the dog for 10 days to make sure she doesn’t have rabies.
I am sad and very angry this was the outcome. I think next time someone on this BB is in a situation like this we have to immediately direct him or her to a dog trainer. (Like when someone comes here and says my dogs stomach is expanding like a balloon and I think he is bloating what should I do – you say go to the vet ASAP this is an emergency, your dog could die!). This was a life or death emergency too, you know what I’m saying? There are some things that cannot be solved on a BB!!!! Most of us are just plain old dog lovers and have opinions about dog training but aren’t the real deal and this is serious! Dogs fighting a people getting bite? Hopefully something was learnt here.

[pitbullEmily]

[quote name='Sarahstaff']The laws dealing with rabies are pretty archaic, hence the mandatory quarantine even in cases like this where the reason for the bite is fairly obvious. ....[/quote]

and the dog was (surely) vaccinated, making the possibility of rabies about 0% I assume

[courtnek]

the laws may be archaic, but there is a reason for them. There are rare cases of dogs, who, even though vaccinated, still carried the rabies virus.
However, that was only after being bitten by a rabid animal. Patti was not bitten, as far as I know, but the laws are in place just in case. I dont think at this point that Patti and Free will ever get along, and X, I am VERY sorry for you and your family. Your son got caught in the middle, unfortunately,
and should have listened. but kids do what kids do. I too would have seperated Patti after the first bite incident, but since this happened so rarely, and without injury in the past, I can understand your thinking (hoping really) that it wouldnt happen again. It's much easier people to judge when your on the outside looking in, then it is when your on the inside looking out. But now its come to a head. for everyones sake, Patti needs to be put down. I am VERY sorry....

[Horsefeathers!]

Geez... what to say? :-?

My two cents, for what it's worth (or not)...

The reason [u]I[/u] empathize is because I'm a human who's made puhlenty of mistakes along the way. When I think about some of the things I've done in the past that I thought were ok, it's a wonder any of my dogs survived puppyhood. Maybe some people grow up exposed to the many "responsible" ways to care for a dog and then there are those of us who learn it the hard way. Nothing in the world could make me believe that x... would deliberately endanger her son even though "common sense" should have told her better. It's just another tragic case of good intentions gone horribly wrong.

If I were perfect and had never done anything blatantly stupid that endangered any of my dogs or even other people with my own ignorance, maybe I'd feel better about berating someone else for being irresponsible. I also fully believe the dogs should have been separated fullstop, but it's kind of a moot point now. To be honest, my thoughts are evolving so that I'm a lot more likely to put down a biting dog than work with them as much as I once would and that includes "redirected" aggression (dog bites human who intervenes in dog scuffle). This kind of event is what reaffirms that evolving train of thought for me. What's scary about that is that I have two dogs here right now of questionable temperament (to say the least) and I always catch myself making excuses for them... "he only snaps when frightened..." "he mostly snaps when hurting..." "he only snapped because he was startled..." "he is defensive because he was abused..." I don't have children, so it's a bit of an easier situation for me to control, but some days I honestly think about it. I've become quite involved in rescue, especially "special needs" dogs whether it be physical needs, or temperament/training issues, but I'm becoming a lot less willing to try to save the world by rehabilitating "misunderstood" dogs when so many "good" ones are languishing away in shelters and rescues. Maybe I'm just getting old and cynical.

Sorry for the ramble. I guess my long, drawn out point is that as a human who is constantly evolving and learning and has made some big mistakes and will probably make a few more, I just don't have it in me to berate someone who made bad decisions with good intentions. I am sure she learned a painful lesson without me having to kick her while she's down.

I'm so sorry this has happened. I don't know why the vet or the shelter won't quarantine Patti for the 10 days. It seems really irresponsible (of them) to tell YOU that YOUR dog is vicious, yet YOU must keep her at home with YOUR young child. I know in my area, the vets or the shelters will do the 10 day quarantine in a situation like this.

:( :(

[MajiesMom]

[quote name='courtnek'] It's much easier people to judge when your on the outside looking in, then it is when your on the inside looking out. But now its come to a head. for everyones sake, Patti needs to be put down. I am VERY sorry....[/quote]

I'm sorry, if the situation had been dealt with more smartly then Pattie would not have bitten the son and would not have to be PTS.

My suggestion is if you love your dog X, then find someone that can handle her. Someone who has knowledge and experience with the breed.
It breaks my heart that everyone quickly jumps to the conclusion that the dogs has to be PTS. There is a place for it but not in this situation, I don't think so.

This is so sad. :cry:

I'm not trying to judge but I don't think X took on these 3 Rotties with enough knowledge of the breed and they're behaviour, at least now she knows and hopefully it never happens again. I'm not trying to sound mean, it happens, you just have to learn from this.

[bk_blue]

Damn straight HF. Agree 1000% with your post.

[gooeydog]

I wasn't going to post on this thread at all, but am having a hard time stomaching some of what's been said here.

Everyone makes mistakes, some bigger than others. The thing I have a problem with is someone who has also had more than one (some more serious than others) preventable accident with their own dogs openly condemning someone else as if they have never made a mistake themselves.

Yes, what happened with these dogs could have been prevented. Andrea thought she was helping the issue by trying to work on obedience, obviously she underestimated the magnitude of her dogs' issues. Anyone who says they haven't ever miscalculated their dog's thoughts or capabilities at least once is a liar. It just happens that the result of this case is a tragedy for all involved. The only thing you can do here is learn from it and use that in dealing with your own dogs.

[anne3149]

The dog is not human aggressive according to X.. Anyone who intervenes in a dog fight takes a bit chance of being bitten. This bite was not directed at a human, the human got in the way and the dog is in a high drive when in the midst of a fight. It's protection drive. Her survival drive.

I also think that the dogs should have been seperated after the first fight but they weren't.

If I were X and I could keep the dogs seperate then I would keep both dogs.

Two Rottweiler bitches close in age do not often get along together. They may do but it is not common. Better to have a male and female. If you take on two females then you should probably expect problems somewhere down the track. What a shame that this dog may lose it's life for something that was not her fault.

I have two females. One is 10 or 11 (rescue) and the other one is 3yo.
No problems due to the age difference. I would not take on another female closer in age to either of them.

[JaquelineC]

[quote name='gooeydog']Everyone makes mistakes, some bigger than others. The thing I have a problem with is someone who has also had more than one (some more serious than others) preventable accident with their own dogs openly condemning someone else as if they have never made a mistake themselves. [/quote]

EVERYONE makes mistakes, and I was NOT condemning her in the LEAST.

Once again, she was making herself sound like a victim, and getting a lot of sympathy. Every incident that I have EVER had, I have taken 100% responsibility for from the BEGINING and LEARNED from the incident.

I have NEVER asked for anyone's sympathy, nor have I ever made myself out to be an innocent victim - EVERY accident/incident that happens with/to my dogs is MY fault and responsibility.

Show me ONE post where I blamed ANYONE but myself for Deuce's accidents with the truck & rope, or Luna's leg. Show me ONE - But you won't find ONE, because from the first moment I was posting as a WARNING to other owners - Like 'Hey guys! Don't make the same mistake I just did!'

Everyone makes mistakes, it is that individual's decision as to whether or not they stand up and take responsibility for their actions and learn from their mistakes, or brush it off as a 'bad dog' or 'bad situation' - Taking NO responsibility for your actions and their consequences, and be doomed to repeat history.

That's the difference. Get it?

[xavierandrea]

JC
WHY DO YOU KEEP ON INSISTING I AM MAKING MYSELF AS A VICTIM??? WHY DO INSIST THAT I AM LOOKING FOR SYMPATHY?? DO NOT AND I REPEAT DO NOT ACCUSE ME OF LOOKING FOR ATTENTION!! I WAS LOOKING FOR HELP AND ADVICE. ALSO I HAVE TAKEN FULL RESPONSIBILITY FOR MY ACTIONS!!!! WHO ARE YOU TO SAY THAT I AM NOT STANDING UP TO MY MISTAKES?? SINCE THE FIRST TIME IN YOU POSTED IN THIS POST YOU HAVE BEEN NOTHING BUT NEGATIVE AND I AM TIRED OF IT! SO I WOULD APPRECIATE IF YOU STOP ACTING LIKE GOD AND PUTTING ME DOWN AMD FLAMMING ME FOR A HUMAN MISTAKE THAT I HAVE DONE!!!!