A little Doggie Rant (no offense to small dog owners)

[Aroura]

I don't see this as a debate, what are we debating? I think we all agree on the topic of this post, that irrisponsible dog ownership sucks, but some people have just taken it out of context and taken it all to heart. I'll call an untrained little dog a brat, just as I'll call an untrained big dog a manace, because thats how I feel, but it doesn't mean I don't acknowledge that it is the ignorant owners fault :roll:

[Guest Anonymous]

Hi,

I have a Greyhound who was attacked yesterday by a Staffodshire Bull terrier who is known to attack other dogs even if the greyhound, as he normally does, ignores them. This medium sized little monster latched onto the greyhounds back leg and tore his muscle and left two nast puncture wounds in his back BEFORE trying to latch on to his neck.

I am devastated that a dog could be allowed to behave like that and blame the woner for not controlling them properly. This was an off leash area. I ahve a staffy x as well and she would NEVER dare do anythin glike that. I f I say jump she jumps. Same with the greyhound. Its the owners not the dogs :((

Seti

[Bentleythewonderdog]

It's really not a debate but there is obviously some dislike and hostility directed at those small dogs. I assure you that my 2 will never be off a leash, never try and attack the larger dog, I make sure they don't come in contact with them and move to the other side of the street when I see them coming. I just don't want to deal with the possibility that the larger dog may decide to snap at a tasty little morsel.

[Sharpeigirl]

:o :o Now aren't you saying that "Large dogs" would make a meal out of any small dog?? BS. My dogs are socialized with all breeds, shapes & sizes. Just seeing a small dog will not send them into attack mode, in fact nothing but a straight attack would cause one of my boys to react. Even then they'd stop under my command. It's not about the dogs, it's the owner who doesn't take the time to train the dog, no matter what size.

Say my rottie came out of my front yard & latched on to your dog in the street, your dog is on leash, and mine is not. Would it be laughed off like it is if the roles are reversed? No, my dog would be PTS asap. He's a "Dangerous Breed" Rotties, pitts, peis, gsds, alot of dogs fall under the dangerous cattagory with out reason. It's not the dogs it's the crappy owners.

[Lucky Chaos]

I don't find any hostility directed at small dogs, just the irrisponsible owners. If I do happen to see a small dog off leash thats barking and seems to want to come up and possibly attack my dogs I'll cross the street, go to the other end of the park, or leave the area. I don't want to deal with the possiblity of my dogs being attacked and then getting the blame when they defend themselves.

[Horsefeathers!]

[quote name='Bentleythewonderdog'] I just don't want to deal with the possibility that the larger dog may decide to snap at a tasty little morsel.[/quote]
Isn't this sort of discriminatory in the same manner that some people are getting peeved at the small dog stereotypes? I mean, it assumes that all big dogs potentially see smaller dogs as "tasty little morsel"s.

Mind you, I believe you are entirely right in maintaining control of your own dogs and not assuming that others are as responsible and in avoiding contact with other dogs you are uncomfortable with. It's just food for thought, but not necessarily directed solely at you, if that makes sense. :wink:

[Lucky Chaos]

Oh and I forgot to add, I will defend myself if any dog, large or small bit me or my dogs. I was bitten by a miniture poodle (and of course hold no grudge against them) and my first reaction was to get the freaking thing off my foot. I threw my foot out, and the dog came off. I did feel sorry for the dog, and the fact that it had been taught no manners but I'm not gonna let it chomp my foot while just standing there and waiting for the idiot owner to get his dog.

[StarFox]

Well since we are talking about dogs and bad owners it made me think of how many times I've been snapped at or zebra has been snapped at and by what dog. Hands down the meanest dog I have EVER seen was this dog in our training class. It was a Jack Russel and if you even walked within 3 feet of it it would lunge at you and snarle. Once the owner was holding it on her lap and the trainer came over to her and it lunged at the trainer. Now the trainer was pissed..not at the dog but at the owner who after the dog lunged at her cuddled the dog to her chest and cooed that it was "ok". What the?! It was obvious that the dog was horribly untrained and the ownder didn't have half a brain cell. They were eventually kicked out of training because the owner refused to fallow anything our trainer said.

It seems that I run into misbehaved Cockers the most. Never had a good experince with that breed and every single owner seems to think it's ok to let the damn dog run loose all over the place. :x

Maybe it's just me but I see allot more owners of small dogs that are irresponsible then big dog owners. I see it all the time at the vet, walking down the street, at the petstore..and all the owners just laugh. Yea I'm sure they are realy going to be laughing when there dog bites a child because they didn't take time to train there dog. :evil:

[Aroura]

[quote name='Sharpeigirl']:o :o Now aren't you saying that "Large dogs" would make a meal out of any small dog??[/quote]

No not I, I can't speak for others here... BUT I do worry for the lives of my dog when some strange dog comes out of its yard, and not an owner to be seen. I know how quickly it can be between life and death when a dog as tiny as Montie gets between the teeth of another dog - I've almost been there before and don't want to risk going there again. It was actually pretty funny the other day, when someones "untrained" cat came flying after my two little dogs and chased them away :lol:

[anne3149]

Some time back I was walking my two GSD's and we constantly met up with a woman who walked a small white fluffy, on lead. I have no idea what breed. The road had a paved path on one side and a grassed area and trees on the other. I used to walk on the grassed area to avoid this woman and her dog. I did this because I could not see the body language of this little dog, it looked like a powder puff.

It was the most fierce little dog I have ever seen. When she would come towards us (on the other side of the road) her dog would start barking and then screaming. As the screaming upset my dogs I would put them in a down stay in amongst the trees until the woman got further along the street. All this time she would be telling her dog "It's all right Precious"!!!!!

One day the dog was screaming so loudly that people came out of their houses to see what the commotion was. At this point the woman picked up her dog and it completely savaged her arm and she took a good bite to the face. There was blood everywhere. I don't know how the story ended but for sure this woman would have needed stitching up.

I started posting here to say it is difficult to see the body language of some small, fluffy dogs but with the bigger ones I know when to move away as they are easier to read. Got a bit carried away with my story. :oops:

[courtnek]

she probably got her stitches, went home and let Fluffy sit in her lap all night. There is something about a lapdog that makes people spoil them if they dont know better. My cat is an attitude and a half, and gets away with stuff the dogs never would, but he also will cuddle up in my lap and purr....

I honestly think some people think of lapdogs and canine cats...now my cat will not bite me (unless I dont feed him when he's hungry, then he'll nip my ankle as a "reminder") but he will bite anyone else (except Kyle) who ticks him off. It's not a nasty bite, it's usually a hiss then a nip, never drew blood (except on the dogs, he WILL bite them hard) and the typical warning signs are there. Tail fluffs up, ears go back, there's a warning growl. If you're stupid and pick him up anyway, you get what you asked for.

[Bubblezzz]

[quote]It seems that I run into misbehaved Cockers the most. Never had a good experince with that breed and every single owner seems to think it's ok to let the d*** dog run loose all over the place.
[/quote]

EVERY SINGLE OWNER of every cocker you've ever met turned out to be an idiot? :o May I ask how many of these awful experiences you've had?

I have cockers. And they are total sweethearts. They approach both humans and dogs alike with one singular intent - to make friends in hopes of play, affection or food. :lol: I DO allow them off-leash whenever possible - and only ONCE have they been a bother. (An idiot ran up to hurl an object at one of them. :evil: Thankfully, I managed to call my dogs (blissfully unaware) to me and yell the basta*d off.)

I also hang-out with a bunch of cocker owners - while our cockers 'run wild' (all have good reliable recalls), we bitch about irresponsible owners. :lol:

Satrfox, I feel sorry that you haven't been given a chance to get to know this darling breed. :wink: Most I know are absolute affection junkies.

[__crazy_canine__]

I, too, havent had great experiences with cockers. My aunt always loved them and she had one when I was little. Bit me all the time! I bled once but all the other times it wasnt too bad. Then after that dog passed away, she got a male and he also didnt seem to like me much, even though I had been with him since she got him. (I helped pick him out) He doesnt seem to enjoy my company much at all but I never understood why.

Im still puzzled by the way the dogs treated me. *shrugs* Maybe it was my aunts fault they acted that way? I dont know but either way, I havent liked any cocker I ever met. Sorry Bubblezzz, Im sure yours are great though!

[Guest Anonymous]

This is sad... :( I am very much partial to cockers (duh! :lol: ) and love the affectionate, playful and loving temperaments (I thought) they are known for. :oops:

Based on my own (limited) experience, cockers require even, consistent training to truly shine. Else they're likely to ride roughshed all over their owners! (Not hard with their looks.) :lol: They also need a gentle training as they tend to be sensitive and react negatively to harsh methods. Despite their huge, dissolve-your-heart, melting eyes and innocent(!) looks, they're also sneaky and extremely smart!

I guess when people stop paying attention to the living, feeling, THINKING being underneath all that fluff, it's easy for any dog to run amok. :(

But take any cocker, add lots of TLC and proper training and you'll have a complete sook on your hands. :D Mine are the best thing in my life! :lol:

[Horsefeathers!]

Guest, I'm just being nosy here... by using the term "sook," I am assuming you are from somewhere besides the US (UK maybe, or Australia?). It's just not a common term here. Saying that, I'm wondering what kind of Cockers you are referring to. In the US, the generic Cocker term applies to the American Cocker Spaniels where (I assume?) in the UK the generic Cocker term applies to the English Cockers. All this to say which kind do you have? I'm in the US and have never had opportunity to meet very many English Cockers.

As far as the US goes, I think Cockers have become so popular and so overbred that their temperaments have suffered greatly. I adore well bred American Cockers.

[Aroura]

I've never met an American Cocker, but the English Cockers are very popular here and every one I have met has been absolutly gorgeous, and friendly, even those unfortunate to be in the hands of completely idiodic owners. I just assumed everybody here was talking about the English Cockers! :lol:

[Cairn6]

[quote name='courtnek']I accept that as being true of you, from what you have posted, and I believe it...However, I HAVE to ask....

If a small dog (or a mid sized one) latched onto your ankle, you wouldnt kick it to get it off? I am sorry, but I will not allow a dog to bite me, under any circumstances, and if that meant kicking it to make it go away, I would do that. Not to hurt it necessarily, just to make it stop. Just like the two fingered snap....I have never been bitten. and dont intend to be....

On a side note, I've never met a dog that TRIED to bite me, except the dachsund...I get along with almost all of them, and if they seem aggressive I stay out of their way. The two next door dont like me, but they dont like anybody so I'm not real concerned....

8) 8) 8) 8)[/quote]
I would like to answer that question if a small dog was latched onto me and believe me I have had plenty of dogs try to bite me volunteering at the shelter and working in a grooming shop with my sister. I have never been afraid of a small dog, I do not want to get bitten but have learned how to pick them up so that I don't have to hurt the dog. I can't pick up a big dog and the only time I have ever been frightened was by a large dog because at that time I am afraid for my life. The only dog that ever scared my sister was a pitbull that bit at her face. She was bit by little dogs and yes it hurts but she didn't even have to have stitches. The big dogs almost always had to have a stitch or two.

Do I stereotype big dog, no. All my life I had large dogs it wasn't until 4 years ago I got my first small dog a cairn terrier he is the greatest dog I have ever had and the smartest. Would I have a large dog again in a second. I love dogs! I don't care what size they are I love them all. It always bugs me when people say I am not a "small dog person" whatever the heck that means. I have never heard anyone say I am not a large dog person.

[Cairn6]

[quote name='Horsefeathers!']Or maybe we should start another thread about how much poor little misunderstood darlin's are terrorized by big, mean dogs. It's been done to death, but let's do it some more. I don't know what part of "yeah, irresponsible dog ownership sucks" people aren't understanding. I don't understand what there is to debate. Some people are just p*ssed off that someone addressed the issue of irresponsible small dog ownership and absolutely insist on believing that we are categorically claiming that all small dogs are evil.
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I reckon I'm just disappointed. The concept is SO simple. I assumed we all knew that ANY dog can be a butthead without having to actually point it out over and over, but the whole point of this thread originally was just a vent that someone had about how people think it's cute to let little dogs aggress. I'm just taken aback that this is such an offensive observation, or such a difficult concept to grasp. The only people I could imagine having any problem with it are the very people who would encourage their own dogs' ill manners as being "cute." *shrug*[/quote]
I think that you seem to me to be the most defensive of anyone on here. You keep on saying it's hard for us to understand the point. Yes I do understand the point if the discussion were actually about irresponsible dog owners. That is not the tone of the posts. Reread the quotes that were given. I am having a hard time understanding you defensiveness.

[Horsefeathers!]

Not defensive. You haven't been here long enough to know that I don't just p*ss and moan about what bugs me, or just post fluff n' stuff that any dog can this, or any dog can that. That's just too easy and doesn't make for intelligent debate or conversation, IMO. It's really kind of condescending and patronizing to just preach the same ol' "any dog can bite..." sermon over and over rather than stick with the topic at hand. Believe me, you're not the first to do it and I'm sure we're all aware. I've long been the biggest mouth here trying to change the perception in the past of all small dogs being yappy and snappy, so you don't know me as well as you think. Wait a while and then you can know me well enough to hate me for real. I'm more of an OFfensive person than a DEfensive one. 8)

By the way, I've heard PLENTY of people say they aren't large dog folks. I'm not narrowminded enough to think a person has to love every single breed of dog to be a dog lover. If it works for you, hey, whatever flips yer switch. :bigok:

[Cairn6]

[quote]It seems that I run into misbehaved Cockers the most. Never had a good experince with that breed and every single owner seems to think it's ok to let the d*** dog run loose all over the place. [/quote]

Yep once again breed stereotyping. Have you ever worked in a shelter, vet's office or grooming shop? I have worked in all 3 and I can tell you that 90% of the cockers I have come in contact with were no trouble at all. How many have you actually met? What has it been two and both were nasty? I honestly can't think of one breed in all my years that I can say was more trouble then any other. They have breed specific issues like the hounds were always making whoo whoo noises, the cockers often had bad ears, the english bulldogs often had bad skin. But behaviorally no worse then any other. I don't feed into that whole a breed is bad there all dogs and all dogs can be trained and worked with. No breed is bad.

[Cairn6]

[quote name='Horsefeathers!']Not defensive. You haven't been here long enough to know that I don't just p*ss and moan about what bugs me, or just post fluff n' stuff that any dog can this, or any dog can that. That's just too easy and doesn't make for intelligent debate or conversation, IMO. It's really kind of condescending and patronizing to just preach the same ol' "any dog can bite..." sermon over and over rather than stick with the topic at hand. Believe me, you're not the first to do it and I'm sure we're all aware. I've long been the biggest mouth here trying to change the perception in the past of all small dogs being yappy and snappy, so you don't know me as well as you think. Wait a while and then you can know me well enough to hate me for real. I'm more of an OFfensive person than a DEfensive one. 8)

By the way, I've heard PLENTY of people say they aren't large dog folks. I'm not narrowminded enough to think a person has to love every single breed of dog to be a dog lover. If it works for you, hey, whatever flips yer switch. :bigok:[/quote]
Well I second that you don't know me either yet you don't hesitate to comment on the things that I have said. I am merely reading what I see on the computer screen. How is it narrowminded to think that someone can love ever breed of dog? That seems the opposite of narrowminded. Loving a dog for being a dog is not the same as wanting to keep one. I give all dogs the benefit of the dog after working with them for over 15 years. I can honestly say there is not a breed I don't like and I don't consider that narrowminded.

[Guest Anonymous]

Umm, "Guest" (posting about cockers) was me. :oops:

You're right Horsefeathers. :wink: I'm posting from Singapore. :D
And as luck would have it, I have BOTH an English Cocker Spaniel (Cosmic) and an American Cocker Spaniel (Floppy). :lol: The best of both worlds! :wink:

Floppy is technically my bf's family dog, but I think of her as 'mine'. :oops: Weird when I don't live with her & see her only once/twice a week - but she is the first dog I've ever REALLY loved, so that's the way it is. :roll:

I have to say that NEITHER of our dogs are technically 'well-bred'. :oops: Floppy was a SPCA rescue (and has one adorable white 'bandaged' paw that would disqualify her from the show ring; or at least cost her lots of points - not that I care :lol: ) and Cosmic was the result of an accidental mating. (We actually bought him through the classifieds section :oops: of our local papers. But it's been a learning experience for us & the owners of his parents - we've become friends and they've either neutered or are planning to neuter Cosmic's dad. ;))

[StarFox]

[quote name='Cairn6'][quote]It seems that I run into misbehaved Cockers the most. Never had a good experince with that breed and every single owner seems to think it's ok to let the d*** dog run loose all over the place. [/quote]

Yep once again breed stereotyping. Have you ever worked in a shelter, vet's office or grooming shop? I have worked in all 3 and I can tell you that 90% of the cockers I have come in contact with were no trouble at all. How many have you actually met? What has it been two and both were nasty? I honestly can't think of one breed in all my years that I can say was more trouble then any other. They have breed specific issues like the hounds were always making whoo whoo noises, the cockers often had bad ears, the english bulldogs often had bad skin. But behaviorally no worse then any other. I don't feed into that whole a breed is bad there all dogs and all dogs can be trained and worked with. No breed is bad.[/quote]


*bangs my head against the wall* I'm not breed stereotyping! I have had four bad experices with cockers, and all 4 times the owners let the dog off leash(in areas where leashes are mandatory). I don't hate the breed I hate the stupid owners who thinks it's cute as there dog races toward my dog and snaps at his neck! Do I love cockers and want every one I see at the shelter, no. But I sure as heck don't hate them or think they are all horrible.

Bubblezzz-Your dogs sound great. To bad there arn't more owners like you around here. :)

[Horsefeathers!]

Cairn... ok, you're right and I'm wrong. Better?

[imported_Cassie]

The biggest problem with our small dogs is first, owners are more apt to coddle their little dogs in times of stress. Working in a grooming shop I see this all the time, owner comes in with small dog in her arms...of course the little dog is going to be defensive in the arms of its owner. I ask the owner to pass the little dog to me, little dog starts barking and growling...owner takes back little dog and hugs it telling the little dog that every thing is going to be alright in a soft tone of voice...thus, the owner is reinforcing a bad behavior and actually teaching the dog that it should be defensive towards strangers approaching. I see this with big dogs as well.

Another issue with small dogs is size does matter. Dogs are great at reading body language, there is nothing more assertive and dominant than another dog or human leaning over the small dog...this is very intimidating to any dog, and this happens ALOT with small dogs...I can't tell you the number of customers we have with small dogs who get very frustrated with naive people who rush up to see their little dog and then stand over the dog, or bend over it to pet it. I have seen alot of big dogs react in a bad way to people bending over them and trying to pet them on the head...it can be even worse for a small dog. People almost lose their senses when it comes to small dogs and approach them in completely the wrong way, we are more apt to ask before approaching a large dog, and when people approach a large dog they will most times approach them in a less threatening manner than they would with a small dog.

One of the reasons little dogs sometimes get an attitude about big dogs is that owners tend to panic when they see a big dog approaching. The owners's stress transmits to the small dog, who than becomes anxious herself. If you grab your little dog every time another dog approaches, it will increase her stress and the potential for a confrontation. It is a normal reaction with alot of small dog owners to pick their little dog up and carry it...and in some cases there is just cause. My Rottie looks at little dogs as prey objects and she does go into predatory drift when she sees a little dog. We also have had alot of cases at the Vet clinic where little dogs have been horribly mauled by large dogs due to being mistaken as prey objects, some little dog owners have actually had off lead large dogs grab their little dogs while they are holding them and try to tear them out of the owners arms...this can be very scary for a small dog owner.
Little dogs need special training, they also just as big dogs should have the NIFIL policy in place. We also have alot of owners of small dogs who come in to the grooming shop who cannot brush their little dogs...the reason behind this, is the dogs doesnt like it :o all dogs even little dogs should be handled and taught to appreciate grooming sessions :wink:

Any dog can be spoiled, I have seen some very spoiled little dogs, perhaps more so than large dogs as we cannot put up with as much bad behavior from our large dogs as they can be a bigger problem. I have had to deal with many spoiled large dogs, and I will say I would much rather deal with 10 small spoiled untrained dogs than 1 spoiled untrained Chow or Rottie...I value my face and don't like the thought of ending up in the hospital like another groomer my boss knows...small dogs can bite, but, large dogs can put you in the hospital, or like the groomer attacked by a chow she had been grooming for years...suffer horrible scars and reconstructive surgery on your face and upper arms for years to come.

The problems with small dogs is most times they are not obedience trained, owners inadvertaley give their little dogs reasons to be offensive with body language, tone of voice and reacting badly in certain situations.
With some bad large dogs most times the owners are afraid of their dogs and allow them to rule the roost.