Horsefeathers! Posted August 25, 2004 Share Posted August 25, 2004 Some of you know that my Pauly (one of my Standard Poodles) was having some issues being nervous and a fear biter. We were seriously considering sending him back to rescue at one time because, to be honest, I'm still not as willing to deal with aggression as I used to be. However, this last month at home has made a HUGE difference (newfiemom, I promise this is relevant to you). We had already began working with Pauly on trying to build confidence with the NILIF stuff and it was helping. He seemed more afraid of hubby than me and has never been blatantly aggressive... just very nervous and snappy if he feels physically threatened. Enter Crazy Owner. This entire month, I've worked on trying to "desensitize" Pauly. I've flailed my arms, lunged at him, whacked him with my crutches, and all in the most playful, perky perky perky manner. Of course, I built it up and didn't just start whacking on him, but still... It seems really stupid, but it's so hard to explain. It has worked WONDERS. I knew I was going to have to smack him around (figuratively... sorta) with those crutches because I was so clumsy on them and I knew the time would come when I'd accidentally get him and I didn't want him to think I was "attacking" him if I accidentally tripped and landed on him, or stepped on him. He's gotten SO desensitized to nearly everything that I can't seem to find ANYTHING that makes him feel threatened. We've still done the NILIF stuff and then the additional rough housing and random pushes, shoves, "lunges," and such and I made it all something fun so that if it happened by accident, he wouldn't be startled. Now I could nearly beat this dog over the head with a crutch or dive on his head and he is soooooooo not threatened by any of it. He is so much a better, more happy dog. Newfie, we also did a LOT of clicker working. Lunge, click, treat. Whack, click, treat. Scream, click, treat. It may not be the way it's meant to work, but holy balls, it DID work. We've also done some more of the traditional clicker training. I wanted to thank you so much for the resources. Between the clicker, NILIF and the "desensitization," Pauly is a different dog. From the way it sounds, you'd think he'd be more neurotic, but I don't think he has a nervous bone left in his body. It's like now NOTHING surprises him, therefore he just doesn't startle. I've been loud, I've stomped, I've tripped and "lunged" toward him and I've poked, pushed and whacked him with crutches, fly swatters, shoes and hands, all in "fun," of course, so that maybe he'd NEVER have a reason to fear an upraised hand or object. He no longer flinches if I raise my hand to him. He used to cower and then growl. Now he raises to meet it, all smiles and wags. He's HAPPY to see someone raise a hand or object to him. YES! His recall now is pretty much 100%, too. If I call "Pauly, come!" he will stop whatever he is doing, no matter how "bad" it is, or how much fun he's having. Oh, happy days! Through some weird twist of fate, my hubby is going to be home from work this entire upcoming month and now he can work more intensely with Pauly. Pauly seems more threatened by men even though that's vastly improved, but I hope this next month sees as big a change as this last month. Anyway, I wanted to thank newfiemom for the clicker help and share the fact that truly crazy owners make for good dogs... at least sometimes. [img]http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0XwAAAIYefeLb0rpcrDDOrMPIDQEqd6VHf!Roslqq97iiLCxh1gduicgXKT0c32v3LXVCceJ3nMFZZXMERJuLK94YTENk4b8JCdKVH5F0IDr91Gj4Y6!KyYrvS22nJA8fPV9EvuVojR8/Pauly%20sig.gif?dc=4675486246323715640[/img] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubblezzz Posted August 25, 2004 Share Posted August 25, 2004 That sounds unbelivably amazing. :o Congrats! :D (Your Pauly is gorgeous - he SO does NOT look like a timid dog!! :lol:) One question though - could you explain what NILIF is? :oops: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Bitch Posted August 25, 2004 Share Posted August 25, 2004 Nothing In Life Is Free. Basically the dog has to work for everything it gets, from pets to treats to food. Great job HF! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtnek Posted August 25, 2004 Share Posted August 25, 2004 how can I make it work with Laurel? she is fine with me, but afraid of my son and his loud, obnoxious friends, who wont cooperate with me. I am now using a penny can to distract her from her baying when he comes in, then treating her for settling down. she wants to be his friend, but he resents the fact that she bays and growls at him everytime he comes in the room. she wont hurt him, she's just afraid. If I could stop her from doing that, he might not be so resentful of her. after she has bayed and settled, she tries to go out and bond with him, but he's mad and doesnt respond. she gets about 3/4 of the way to him, and then gives up. I can see its fear. He has never done anything to hurt her, he just doesnt reach out to help her. :( :( :( :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cairn6 Posted August 25, 2004 Share Posted August 25, 2004 Wow that is amazing. What a beautiful dog too. I suppose you might get tired of all of us asking you questions. But how do you think I could use your method to help Shadow our 5 month old Sheltie. Last week we were at the park and a very large dog who was off lease and very friendly I guess too friendly for shadow because Shadow was trying to hide under the picnic bench for a little break when the dog surprised surprised him by coming right under the bench and into his face. He snapped at the dog and the dog ran off and left. Well now he is snapping at every dog that comes up to him. If he goes up to them it's fine but if they go up to him he growls and snaps. What can I do for him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubblezzz Posted August 25, 2004 Share Posted August 25, 2004 [quote]Nothing In Life Is Free. [/quote] Thanks. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seijun Posted August 25, 2004 Share Posted August 25, 2004 What I found interesting about your desensitizing method is that it is very much like the more "humane" methods that have recently come into practice for taming wild horses to be ridden. I completely wild horse is constrained in a special holding cell, and grain is filled into the cell around the horse's body. It keeps the horse from knocking around and hurting itself. Its head and neck stick out of a special hole in the wall so it can look around or turn its head any way it pleases. The trainer then yells, waives his arms, and flaps umbrellas in the horse’s face, until the horse has become completely desensitized to any sort of sudden, unexpected, flashy, or large-type movements. Such methods work wonders on the horse and in literaly just hours, the trainer is able to walk up and pet the horse without the horse even flinching, as if it had been tame its entire life! My own dog was very nervous and flinchy around new things so I spent months exposing her to large, loud, and new objects. She will never be completely desensitized, but she is much better than she used to be. Such methods may seem harsh at first, but they can do wonders and it does not hurt or traumatize the animal at all if done correctly, and in the right circumstances. ~Seij Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malamum Posted August 25, 2004 Share Posted August 25, 2004 That is fantastic news and I've got to say that picture of Pauly is absolutly stunning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imported_Kat Posted August 25, 2004 Share Posted August 25, 2004 Thats excellent to hear that you and Pauly are getting results after hard work together. :wink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted August 25, 2004 Share Posted August 25, 2004 Great Job HF!!! that is amazing ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarahmyjoy Posted August 26, 2004 Share Posted August 26, 2004 Way to go HF and Pauly!! Pauly is a beautiful pupper!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bk_blue Posted August 26, 2004 Share Posted August 26, 2004 That's great news HF. congrats on all your hard work. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogPaddle Posted August 26, 2004 Share Posted August 26, 2004 Very nice. Glad Pauly is coming along nicely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsefeathers! Posted August 27, 2004 Author Share Posted August 27, 2004 Thanks, everyone! :angel: Court, I don't know what to tell you. This is only my opinion, so please don't take offense because I don't mean it to come off ugly... I think your son needs to either commit to bonding or at least coexisting peacefully with Laurel, or just totally leave her alone, period. He needs to realize that she is a DOG and he is a PERSON with the ability to reason. I think it's really wrong for him to hold a grudge against her and basically "punish" her when she doesn't respond as he wants. It pretty much seems to me that he's feeding that monster (fear). If he can't compromise and try to work with her when she does try to approach him, maybe he should just ignore her entirely. I just get the feeling he's sending her mixed signals and it's upsetting her more. I'm not saying her wellbeing takes precedence over his... just that I don't think it's fair for him to basically "torment" her by sending mixed signals. Either he should commit to working with her, or leave her alone. Does this make sense? Again, I don't mean it to sound ugly and doG knows I'm not a dog trainer. It's just my own perception. Court, I hear you mention your son's "loud obnoxious friends" quite a bit. Any way you could put your foot down and say "this is MY house!" and put an end to some of the behavior that obviously seems to bug you from time to time? Your son may live there, but his friends do not and, IMO, Laurel's wellbeing should be more important than THEIRS. If they won't cooperate with you, perhaps it's time to put your foot down and set boundaries for them. Just my friendly advice and certainly not intended to sound offensive. I really do care! Cairn et al, I don't know if any of what I did with Pauly would work for you. I mean, it's not a "technique" I picked up anywhere and I have no idea how it might work for another dog. I'm scared to tell someone to lunge and whack their own dog. It did work with Pauly, but I made it all a game and he ended up thinking that the rougher, the more fun. It seems weird to me, too, so I may not be the best to offer advice. To be totally honest, I expected someone to come forward and tell me what a horrible thing I did. :oops: Oh... that's not actually a picture of Pauly. I saw it on another board and mentioned that it looked exactly like Pauly... same expression. Though they are both white Standard Poodles, Pauly's and Perry's expressions and faces are as different as night and day. The person who originally posted it took it and made a siggy for me. Still, it looks just like him. :oops: This IS da Pauly dogger (and Perry). I know he looks like he's wearing a wig, but it's because I had only shaved his face that morning and didn't have time to trim his head. My husband said it looked like Pauly was wearing a blonde wig :oops: . Pauly's expression is identical to the one in the siggy. Ok, no one cares but me, but still... :P 8) [img]http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0aADxAkQg7p0hJNSjCczJkIMMJN*a0c*OKLJuTt2oc2mYu0iu7WDMSklxishp!HVSxSYAF2cYNajOCpR4U2saqjP0fRstKoshcH1ooR0tpSwCEyTdYUixNYrU4naAnwYUMAaBvDIsUxq7oaU37CCWsWxsYS80LjAg/Perry%20%26%20Pauly0.JPG?dc=4675486515046811963[/img] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarahmyjoy Posted August 27, 2004 Share Posted August 27, 2004 they are just as beautiful as I thought they would be! Oh they wont be offende that I said they are beautiful, being boys and all?? maybe I should say handsom LOL :wink: :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtnek Posted August 27, 2004 Share Posted August 27, 2004 I agree with you 100% HF...but I;m not here all day, and they are. Things will chill out now that school has started. Kyle portrays himself as a hard-ass, but the fact that Laurel fears him bothers him. He gets disgruntled that she bays/barks/growls every time he enters the room. He has never had a situatio like this, he doesnt understand it. I'm still learning too, I've never had a fearful dog before. He has completely bonded to Ford, the kitten. she likes him no matter what. and Free has been here since he was little... :cry: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cairn6 Posted August 27, 2004 Share Posted August 27, 2004 Well the real dog is gorgeous too. Your advice is good maybe you need to start an advice column. Dear Horsefeathers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corgilady Posted August 28, 2004 Share Posted August 28, 2004 [quote name='Cairn6']Well the real dog is gorgeous too. Your advice is good maybe you need to start an advice column. Dear Horsefeathers.[/quote] :lol: I second that! :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsefeathers! Posted August 28, 2004 Author Share Posted August 28, 2004 Y'all make me giggle. :oops: :lol: I'm more used to people telling me to BUTT OUT than asking for advice. :o :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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