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anne3149

Would you chain a dog.

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One of my pet peeves is dogs on chains. I hate to see dogs chained up when there are other alternatives.

None of my dogs has ever been tied out and they never will be. I believe it has a physchological effect on the dog.

I also don't believe in dogs living their lives outside. Why get a dog if it can't be with the family. Dogs are social animals and need to be with their family 'pack'.

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Are we defining a difference between temporarily tying out, or chaining to an affixed object, or what? While I'm opposed to solely "outside" dogs, especially dogs left tied out day in and day out, I'm not opposed to temporary tie outs. We have a cable that runs between two trees in our yard about 50 ft apart. There is a length of cable on a little trolley wheel on that overhead cable that runs from that to a dog. Before we had a fence, we used to use it to contain our Lab and then our Pit/Boxer mix. They had room to run without being in danger of running into the road (we are close to a major four lane highway). It was great when standing outside holding a leash wasn't practical (gardening, swimming in the pool, being outside with them without actually being able to stand there and hold a leash). We finally installed a fence and the Pit mix and Lab stayed outside most of the time (not ALL the time) and seemed fine with it because we were outside a lot. When my Lab had hip surgery, he needed to be kept inside and monitored and became a house dog. Of course, Penny couldn't be left outside alone, so she became an indoor dog as well. Even when he recovered, the Lab and Pit mix remained house dogs. Now I can't imagine having ever let them spend so much time outside. I don't think I could sleep at night now if one of my gang was outside. My Lab is ALL house dog. I'm glad it changed because he's getting older and I know he's more comfortable inside.

Clear? Mud? I can see tying a dog outside to keep it secure for a short period of time, but not as a longterm lifestyle. I know I won't ever keep a dog primarily outside again and I've long since adopted SEVERAL more large breed dogs.

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I have a tie-out for Amaya that sticks in the ground. We haven't used it much. But when we do use it, it's when we're outside so she's not on it unsupervised. It's not a 'chain' persay.. but one of those tieouts you can get at the petstore.

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Dont agree with:
-outside dogs (living their entire lives out there)
-chaining dogs with heavy chains
-devices to tie-out that are not used properly (or that could choke the dog)
-unsupervised outside time

Agree with:
-family pack of dogs
-right kind of "chains"

sry for just listing but Im honestly too tired to post anything too long.

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chaining outside, alone, for long periods of time I am against. I am also against heavy chains. Now and then, my son will take both dogs out front (outside of the fenced yard) and attach them to metal wire "tie-outs" there that are securely attached to the fence for just this purpose. They are about 15 feet long, which allows the dogs to roam on the front yard, play with my son and his friends, but not get near the sidewalk or the street.
He and his friends are outside with them, and the garage door is open so that the dogs can come in and visit while they work on their motors and stuff. Kyle knows enough to keep bad things out of their way. Antifreeze and oil and stuff is at the back of the garage, and the dogs cant get there.

So yes, I consider this ok. If he decides to leave or go in, the dogs go in too. He is not allowed to leave them in the yard alone, even though fenced in, even for 20 minutes.

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I don't get the dog always outside thing either, really makes no sense.

I think that if you don't have a fenced yard and can't fence or can't fence at this time that tieing the dog out, properly, somewhere safe to have its pee and a bit of air is ok. Not for long and not in place of some real excercise but it is a passable solution when done right and when other options aren't available. I HATE the heavy chain thing.

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[color=darkred]I don't agree with dogs being tied up outside either, night or day not only is it cruel but what happens if there is an intruder how is the dog supposed to stop them entering its property!

There are many cruelty cases involving chained dogs, some are tied near fences so its easy for them to get strangled if they were to jump over it.
A number of dogs are found with chains enbedded in there neck, one was so bad it couldn't be shown on ANIMAL PLANET.
Others are left outside in all weathers with no food, water or a warm bed to sleep on and not always a shelter!

People are a disgrace to the world.[/color]

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Guest Anonymous
I chain all my dogs. They are rotated into kennels but for the most part they are outside dogs.
Chaining a dog is not what makes him mean. Now if he is being teased and what not, yeah he could end up with aggression problems. Responsible owners wouldnt let teaing go on.... But chaining a dog alone is not going to make him mean.
If chaining dogs makes them mean why is it that the dogs I have been around, a breed that is considered soo dangerous, have always been so loving and stable. I have been around thousands of APBTs, most, probably 95%, were on chains their entire lives. Not one of these chain raised dogs ever even attempted to bite me.
So, its not the chaining that is making dogs aggressive...

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Why not build privacy fencing at least 6ft high and there is no need then to chain your dogs.

My dogs live inside and tend to go outside only when I go there. They are velcro dogs...Rottweilers as well, plenty of room for us to live all as a family, inside, enjoying the company of eachother. If I leave the house they have access to outside 24/7 but choose to stay in, sleeping.

They get walked each day. Seperately, since I am small and they are large. Each dog weighs about the same as I do.

If one of them indavertantly gets left outside when I come in, I see this pitiful face at the glass door...they just stand there looking devesated.

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[quote]Why not build privacy fencing at least 6ft high and there is no need then to chain your dogs. [/quote]
that's not neccesarily true. many dogs, pit bulls included, can easily clear a six foot fence.

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Guest Anonymous
[quote name='mydogroxy'][quote name='anne3149']Why not build privacy fencing at least 6ft high and there is no need then to chain your dogs. [/quote]
that's not neccesarily true. many dogs, pit bulls included, can easily clear a six foot fence.[/quote]
Not only could pits easily scale a six foot high fence but if I allowed my dogs to roam around together I would come home to a large number of dead dogs. I would much rather chain them than come home to that!

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I have 6 ft fencing with 3 ft of lattice on top = 9ft total.

Some people place 2 ft of lattice on top of the fence angled inwards and this will stop dogs from jumping as even if they jump high enough there is nowhere for them to place their back legs.

Better than chaining a dog up IMO.

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Most dogs in most places are outside dogs. ITs great you take your dogs inside and let them run free. Ive always let mine but now i cant. Dogs are not MEANT to live their lives indoors. It is a cramped boring environment for even the smallest dog. Understand that there is no detectable difference between a pomeranian and a wolf. Dogs are hunters first and foremost. They are predators. And they are explorers. They need to run, explore, experience new things. A dog raised and living his life outdoors is arguably much happier and healthier than a dog who lives his lives in a human home. Even better of course is a a dog who is allowed to run free both indoors and outdoors. Again. MOST dogs the world over live their lives outside. It is what they were meant to do. Its what they love.

Chaining dogs: Putting a dog on a chain, leaving it there, never visiting, giving it love, or letting it have a change of scenery makes them crazy. Just like it would you or i. But chaining a dog, visiting and giving it love, giving it as much chain as you possibly can and preferably a run, and moving its area occasionally (i do mine daily) is not cruel. Its not the best circumstance but its definitely not the worst. Consider that a house dog, left alone all day, seeing its owners at night, NEVER getting to explore or get a change of scenery beyond the same standard walk it gets ... that dog gets to see a lot less, entertain itself a lot less, he doesnt smell the smells, hear and respond to other dogs etc....

In a perfect world all dogs would be free to run as they please, inside and out. But its not a perfect world. And everyone isnt rich enough to build 10 foot fences around their homes.. and dont want to. Not to mention apartment dwellers etc. We and dogs have to do our best to accomodate each other and keep each other happy. If you really love animals dont attack others who love them and do their best for them.. and dont necessarily approve of how you raise your dog. But rather turn yoru energy to saving strays, spaying (which i used to oppose), donating to the local animal groups and shelters etc. Which i have a feeling 99% of the people here already do anyway.

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[quote name='cdreid']Most dogs in most places are outside dogs. ITs great you take your dogs inside and let them run free. Ive always let mine but now i cant. Dogs are not MEANT to live their lives indoors. It is a cramped boring environment for even the smallest dog. Understand that there is no detectable difference between a pomeranian and a wolf. Dogs are hunters first and foremost. They are predators. And they are explorers. They need to run, explore, experience new things. A dog raised and living his life outdoors is arguably much happier and healthier than a dog who lives his lives in a human home. Even better of course is a a dog who is allowed to run free both indoors and outdoors. Again. MOST dogs the world over live their lives outside. It is what they were meant to do. Its what they love.

Chaining dogs: Putting a dog on a chain, leaving it there, never visiting, giving it love, or letting it have a change of scenery makes them crazy. Just like it would you or i. But chaining a dog, visiting and giving it love, giving it as much chain as you possibly can and preferably a run, and moving its area occasionally (i do mine daily) is not cruel. Its not the best circumstance but its definitely not the worst. Consider that a house dog, left alone all day, seeing its owners at night, NEVER getting to explore or get a change of scenery beyond the same standard walk it gets ... that dog gets to see a lot less, entertain itself a lot less, he doesnt smell the smells, hear and respond to other dogs etc....

In a perfect world all dogs would be free to run as they please, inside and out. But its not a perfect world. And everyone isnt rich enough to build 10 foot fences around their homes.. and dont want to. Not to mention apartment dwellers etc. We and dogs have to do our best to accomodate each other and keep each other happy. If you really love animals dont attack others who love them and do their best for them.. and dont necessarily approve of how you raise your dog. But rather turn yoru energy to saving strays, spaying (which i used to oppose), donating to the local animal groups and shelters etc. Which i have a feeling 99% of the people here already do anyway.[/quote]

I don't particularly see anything wrong with tying your dog up ouside for a bit, maybe an hour or two a day while you do housework or run errands but I don't think it's fair for the dog to live ouside on a chain all the time. All dogs need exersize, socalization and fresh air but I don't think leaving your dog out on a chain for hours on end , day after day is accomplishing anything. I know my dog, and most dogs are much happier INSIDE with there owners then outside alone.
You said that:
[quote]Understand that there is no detectable difference between a pomeranian and a wolf.[/quote] Well if this is true then it's also true that all dogs are pack animals and need to be with there pack. How is it fair to keep a dog outside even if you take care of it. Taking care of a dog is allot more then walking it and feeding it. My dog would die of lonelyness if he had to be ouside at night while everyone was in the house.

Also I don't agree with that statment at all. Dogs have certain qualitys of wolves but dogs are not wolves, and wolves are not dogs. There IS a huge distinct difference in the two. This reminds me of a man who owns a wolf-dog rescue he said (and i'm paraphrasing) "Wolf-dogs are neither wolves or dogs. They exist in a horrible limbo between the two."

What I don't get is that you basically say that dogs need to experience things and be out, but indoor dogs don't get to do that because they are at home all day untill there masters get home. Well what is the difference if a dog is ouside in the backyard all day? He dosn't get to experience anything differnt either.

[quote]Consider that a house dog, left alone all day, seeing its owners at night, NEVER getting to explore or get a change of scenery beyond the same standard walk it gets ... that dog gets to see a lot less, entertain itself a lot less, he doesnt smell the smells, hear and respond to other dogs etc.... [/quote]

Consider the ouside dog, staring in at his "masters" having fun inside the house and having dinner together and that dog ouside by itself having nothing to do, no one to interact with. A truly happy dog does not live in the house 100% of the time, or live outside 100% of the time.

(by the way I realy hope this post makes some sort of sense, I'm dead tired :oops: )

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[quote]Understand that there is no detectable difference between a pomeranian and a wolf.[/quote]

Wolves and dogs are completely different. If what you just said were true, than owning a wolf/dog or even a full blooded wolf would be the same as owning a pomeranian and it is surely not.

[quote]Dogs are not MEANT to live their lives indoors. It is a cramped boring environment for even the smallest dog.[/quote]

I'd have to say that living life on a chain in the backyard is an even more cramped and boring environment. My dog has tons to do while he's indoors with us. We practice training, he has toys and he just hangs out and relaxes. He's not cramped or bored.

[quote]A dog raised and living his life outdoors is arguably much happier and healthier than a dog who lives his lives in a human home. [/quote]

Really? I found my dog living outdoors on his own in the woods. The perfect environment, right? He was very skinny, starving, covered in ticks, and had open sores in his ears. All he wanted was to be with people and come inside. Now he lives with me in the house and is much happier and healtheir than he was when I found him.

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[quote name='cdreid'] It is a cramped boring environment for even the smallest dog. [/quote]

Sheesh, the only one cramped in my house is me! :lol:
One dog stretches out on the couch, the other stretches out on the loveseat to be next to me, the other stretches out on the floor under my feet.
However, as was also in the quoted post, my dogs DO have access to go in and out during the greater part of the day.

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[quote name='cdreid']Understand that there is no detectable difference between a pomeranian and a wolf. [/quote]
I can detect a LOT of differences between a Pom and a wolf. :o

Before I go debating, I want to know who I'm talking to. Isn't it you who said you have wolves and wolf mixes (deliberately bred by you if I understood right)? I never did find out if you are in rescue, or just enjoy the company of these animals enough to acquire them. I certainly do believe that wolves are outside animals, but I can't imagine thinking they're better served chained in someone's yard. I'm not picking a fight. It just makes it much easier to debate someone if you know where they're coming from. So far, I've given you zero credibility just because of this, but I'd sure like to be told I'm wrong and that you are part of some sanctuary that saves them, or anything other than just someone who thinks they make great pets and should be bred to dogs for more great pets. I'm just having a hard time trying to justify chaining wolves in someone's yard and why that's a good idea. That's even if this was you at all. I don't really remember who it was, but I *thought* it was you. I apologize and will stand red faced otherwise, especially if you addressed this in another thread elsewhere and I just missed it.

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Guest Anonymous
[quote name='anne3149']I have 6 ft fencing with 3 ft of lattice on top = 9ft total.

Some people place 2 ft of lattice on top of the fence angled inwards and this will stop dogs from jumping as even if they jump high enough there is nowhere for them to place their back legs.

Better than chaining a dog up IMO.[/quote]

Some people dont have that option. Im sorry but chaining them up is better than coming home to a yard full of dead dogs.
So just to clarify, you think I should let, lets say 30 APBTs run around with each other in a 9ft high fence? You think that is better than chaining them up? Not very realistic....

cdreid wrote:
[quote]Understand that there is no detectable difference between a pomeranian and a wolf. [/quote]
Ummm, excuse me?? Do you think you could put a pom out with wolves and it would survive?? There is a huge difference there... one being domestication, another...well think its pretty obvious...

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I won't even comment on the stated similarity of poms and wolves.

I don't have 30 dogs and I wouldn't even consider having 30 dogs if that meant having to chain them up all day. I would not be able to give them the care and attention they deserve. How could I obedience train 30 dogs??? My dogs get walked every day. I couldn't do that with 30 dogs either.

If my Rottweilers felt the need to live outdoors then that option is open to them. They have 24/7 access to outside. They simply choose to be inside with me. My dogs are my companions, well trained and well behaved companions.

I have two Rotties and we are bonded to eachother. That would not happen if they lived the most part of their lives outside on chains.

Simple fact is that I would not want 30 dogs as I could not do them justice, I could not give them the individual attention. I could not obedience train so many dogs and I sure do not want a pack of untrained dogs that need to be chained so they don't kill eachother.

I consider my dogs to be part of my family. That is the way mine are treated and that is the way they behave.

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Guest Anonymous
I am a breeder. Unfortunately keeping my dogs in the house is not an option. They are either on chains or in kennels, and rotated between the two.
No one owning APBTs could leave them unattended in a fenced area regardless of training (shouldnt leave them with another dog unattended anywhere!). This is one of the mistakes pit owners make constantly. They think with enough training they can allow their dogs to stay together unattended. Its just not true. Sooner or later the dogs will get into a fight. And when that happens is when you hear people saying things like, "He never showed any aggression before", or "They were raised together...".
You could walk up to any one of my dogs and tell them to sit, lay down, or come and they will. Every one of them can come in the house and act like they are supposed to act indoors. Although I do have a couple who would chew up any wood they would come across (which is why they are never left unattended even when no other dogs are around.)
Truth is, chaining doesnt have anything to do with the dogs happiness unless they are chained and forgotten.
Responsible dog ownership is the same whether you have dogs in the house or on a chain or in a kennel.

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let me throw another log on the fire.....

dogs are NOT wolves, wolves are NOT dogs. However, back in the way-begone-days, wolves CHOSE (there is no evidence they were forced. by all the records they CHOSE) to come live with US. They realized that our fires, and our food, and our companionship was much more to their liking then cold, starvation and death. They didnt have to do that. No one made them do it. Dogs, like people, (well, most people anyway) are gregarious
and sociable. They realized early on that pack living helped them survive. So nature provided them with the means to be sociable, to live together, to develop rules to live by (pack rules) that benefited them all. Nothing in nature is haphazard. This is an animal who, by nature, requires a sociable, pack environment.

Come today...most people (HF excepted, of course... :lol: :lol: ) dont have dog "packs" in their homes. But the dog is still a pack animal.
He has allowed his people to become his "pack"...In a real pack, wolves left outside of the pack "family" die. They are outcasts. I did a thesis on wolves in college, and while alot of the thinking has changed, this piece has not. Dogs still require their family to be their pack. They are loving, sociable animals. Unlike wild cats, they are not meant to live alone.

So chain them out? no human contact" they want to live outdoors? maybe, if their family pack was outdoors with them. Dogs make great camping companions. But alone. outside, by themselves? No. they prefer to be in, where their family is. I have a huge, fenced yard. They could both live out there indefinitely. Do they want to? No. If I'm not out there with them, they will play for a while, and then want in. With me.
If I'd stay out there with them 24/7 I'm sure they'd be ok. Theres two of them, they are not alone. They still want in.

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Oh Boy!! Hmmm, You have 30 breeding Pit Bulls?? Why so many? Is there that large a market for Pit Bulls where you live? You must sell a lot of pups with 30 breeding dogs.

In Australia they are not such a popular breed as we have the dreaded BSL in one state seizing and killing peoples Pittys. Many of the breeders are going onto different breeds now due to the BSL which is spreading thoughout the country.

I still maintain that you cannot look after 30 dogs in the same manner as you can with say, two or three dogs. Again, if I had to chain my dogs because I had too many I would cut down on the number of dogs so they were able to live inside with the family.

30 dogs kept outside in runs or on chains are not what I would describe as family pets.

Do you sell the progeny of these dogs to families as pets?

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This is one of those topics that screams "troll" to me, but I'll contribute my 2 cents anyway. I have sled dogs, 10 of them to be exact. They are chained. However to assume that because that is how my dogs are confined that they are automatically untrained, unsocialized and unloved/cared for is a ridiculous assertion. My dogs "exercised" for over 1200 miles last year through country that a good deal of you only see pictures of in magazines. In the off season they have social time at least every other day, depending on the weather. Being typical huskies, they wouldn't come out of their houses in the rain if said house was on fire. their social time is 1 to 2 hours of free running in there fenced dog yard of about 1/4 acre. They are so "poorly socialized" that all 10 , both males and females, can be together without so much as a snarl. (Females in heat are seperated from the intact boys for obvious reasons... ) My 11th dog is a 5 lb Pomeranian who can also interact with all my dogs with out a problem, even eating out of their dishes. When their social time is over, all of them go back to their houses and lay down, all I have to do is go around and hook them up. The other option is kenneling, which for some reason doesn't work well with northern breeds- they tend to pace-I've gotten dogs from kennel situations that were pacers, and the minute they feel tthey are not enclosed, they quit pacing, even if it means being tied up. The fact that we live in a rural area also necessitates confining them.
My dogs are my best friends- they get the best food and care imaginable- if they didn't they would not be capable of doing what sled dogs do.

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Pumpkin the musher. Thanks for branding me as a troll. I can assure you this is not the case. Presumably you mean me as I started this debate. [b]This IS the debate forum isn't it???[/b] I really think this terminology is beginning to be thrown around this forum a little too carelessly. Just because I don't agree with chaining up my dogs does not make me a troll, it simply means I do not agree with the practise.

I was prompted to ask this question after seeing a pic of a very overweight Rottweiler chained up in the General Discussion forum. I found this quite distressing and as the owner of Rottweilers I happen to know they are happier in a family situation, being with their people rather than on a chain outside.

As my dogs are family pets and I am not a breeder I was interested in what others have to say about chaining of dogs, particularly those people who do chain their dogs and also the effect this may or may not have on the dogs........ Is that trolling??

Now Pumpkin, I thought a debate was a discussion about the pros and cons of a particular subject. If you see that as incorrect perhaps you could post exactly what your idea of a debate is.

I am also interested in what breeders are looking for in screening prospective owners of their pups....IF the pups have not been brought up in a family situation. I know I was very carefully screened by the breeder of my Rottweiler about not only the living situation but also what ideas I had about obedience training. Had I intimated that my dog would live chained outside then I am quite sure I would not have been acceptable to the breeder as a purchaser of her pup.

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