cdreid

[quote name='Horsefeathers!']I can detect a LOT of differences between a Pom and a wolf. :o Before I go debating, I want to know who I'm talking to. Isn't it you who said you have wolves and wolf mixes (deliberately bred by you if I understood right)? I never did find out if you are in rescue, or just enjoy the company of these animals enough to acquire them. I certainly do believe that wolves are outside animals, but I can't imagine thinking they're better served chained in someone's yard. I'm not picking a fight. It just makes it much easier to debate someone if you know where they're coming from. So far, I've given you zero credibility just because of this, but I'd sure like to be told I'm wrong and that you are part of some sanctuary that saves them, or anything other than just someone who thinks they make great pets and should be bred to dogs for more great pets. I'm just having a hard time trying to justify chaining wolves in someone's yard and why that's a good idea. That's even if this was you at all. I don't really remember who it was, but I *thought* it was you. I apologize and will stand red faced otherwise, especially if you addressed this in another thread elsewhere and I just missed it.[/QUOTE] Whether you know it or not there is as little difference between a pom and a wolf as there is between a pom and a shephard or a pom and a lab. Same critter people have just bred the pom into a bizarre shape (and poms are wonderful dont get me wrong imho all dogs are). I adopted my dogs from in-laws. One of their dogs was impregnated by a wolf. I dont really care if you or anyone else approves of that. The dog catcher ever comes in my yard with a noose or gun he'll be met with a Semi automatic .308 fn fal. Thats not hype. They are my kids. Of course i wouldnt suggest chaining wild animals in someones yard. Though i find it ironic people id bet money go to the zoo for fun object to that. I guess a mountain goat or wildcat is somehow "acceptable" as it is for entertainment. Wild animals should live in the wild. IT has zero to do with breeding. Wild dogs live in australia. YOu'd be insane to "adopt" one. They are in fact wolves. But they dont look like wolves so.. There are wild dogs in america. Born and living that way. You'd be wise not to adopt them. Of course if the choice is to do so or to kill them then they definitely should be adopted. As for "deliberately breeding". I consider breeding disgusting. What some of you do to dogs is horrific. You've bred in genetic diseases. Made wonderful animals so helpless in pursuit of cute or convenient they cannot survive without very special attention. It is disgusting. Funny thing is these tend to be the very people who squeal in fear at non-purebreads ie healthy animals. They want Pits, Rotts, Wolf crossbreeds etc put down because the guy with the hair on teeevee told them theyd eat their kids!!! Oh of course that kid who got bit was bitten by the "fighting dog" of some animal with two legs who should be put down. Micheal Vic et al. But lets commit genocide on the dogs instead. And all of this wasnt at you you seem to have a great heart and an open mind. More to the people who consider it a favor to animals to breed them into toys and then lock them into prisons and consider those who dont "cruel". Its nutty. Insane. Vicious. Immoral Im sure ive sufficiently upset the in crowd. Ya'll have a great day.

But i wanted to respond. 1. I wasnt attacking those of you who keep your dogs indoors or behind fences in yards. We love our dogs and have to do the best we can for them. 2. The posts about "Poms and wolves are not related" are the same sort of folks who scream for the banning of pits etc. Ignorant. Genetically wolves and pomeranians are almost identical. The difference being you've bred surviveability out of the "toy" dogs. Which is ok as they are pets now. But dont think for a second they arent hunters. As to the "wolf rescue" my dogs are part wolf. Their mother moreso. I thiink id know more about it than google theorists. My dogs "wolfy" side is that they get really excited sometimes. Thats it. Id hope some of you whos goal seems to be to exterminate everything that doesnt sit in your lap and yap take some time to educated yourselves. 3. Someone equated an outdoor dog with finding their dog starving in the woods. Sorry but thats just an *****ic comparison. Should i compare my dogs, who live outdoors now most of the time, are extremely healthy and happy, to those dogs removed from homes starving, hairless, covered in ticks???? Animals were not designed to be toys. Of course it isnt cruel to keep your dogs indoors if thats what you have to do. In a choice between a dog not existing and living in an apt i'd pick the apt every time. And visa versa of course. Nor am i accusing people of being intentionally cruel by doing so. And btw to those of you claiming/thinking "little dogs cant live outside with big dogs and scary stuff!". I had a white toy poodle who spent its first three years as an outdoor dog. (My sisters actually). The dog was afraid of nothing. In fact my chow/wolves were scared to death of her. She ran all over the neighborhood and did just fine. My mom eventually adopted her away from us. Made her a house dog. She lost that bounce in her step eventually. Became one of the pets who wants to just sit n your lap and stare all the time. I loved her and it was sad to see her like that. I remember the bouncy happy little ruler of the neighborhood. If you truely love animals you will stop believing what joe haircut newscaster tries to frighten you with. Or Jim "i need votes" city councilman. When they tell you pits are evil. Or dogs should be X. Or we should have a killing campaign. Or whatever. Animals arent evil People make them that way sometimes. And sometimes people do evil to them. Even the ones claiming to love them...

Most dogs in most places are outside dogs. ITs great you take your dogs inside and let them run free. Ive always let mine but now i cant. Dogs are not MEANT to live their lives indoors. It is a cramped boring environment for even the smallest dog. Understand that there is no detectable difference between a pomeranian and a wolf. Dogs are hunters first and foremost. They are predators. And they are explorers. They need to run, explore, experience new things. A dog raised and living his life outdoors is arguably much happier and healthier than a dog who lives his lives in a human home. Even better of course is a a dog who is allowed to run free both indoors and outdoors. Again. MOST dogs the world over live their lives outside. It is what they were meant to do. Its what they love. Chaining dogs: Putting a dog on a chain, leaving it there, never visiting, giving it love, or letting it have a change of scenery makes them crazy. Just like it would you or i. But chaining a dog, visiting and giving it love, giving it as much chain as you possibly can and preferably a run, and moving its area occasionally (i do mine daily) is not cruel. Its not the best circumstance but its definitely not the worst. Consider that a house dog, left alone all day, seeing its owners at night, NEVER getting to explore or get a change of scenery beyond the same standard walk it gets ... that dog gets to see a lot less, entertain itself a lot less, he doesnt smell the smells, hear and respond to other dogs etc.... In a perfect world all dogs would be free to run as they please, inside and out. But its not a perfect world. And everyone isnt rich enough to build 10 foot fences around their homes.. and dont want to. Not to mention apartment dwellers etc. We and dogs have to do our best to accomodate each other and keep each other happy. If you really love animals dont attack others who love them and do their best for them.. and dont necessarily approve of how you raise your dog. But rather turn yoru energy to saving strays, spaying (which i used to oppose), donating to the local animal groups and shelters etc. Which i have a feeling 99% of the people here already do anyway.

Jail is for human beings. These animals obviously werent human.

It sounds like they really really love him. But are like me and just cant help but pet him and love him constantly when he's around. Makes it very hard to train your dog when they know that no matter what they do the second you get within reach theyre petted. Maybe explain to them about the collars. How it is 'negative reinforcement' and not a good way to train him. And that it just causing him pain if they dont know training techniques.

Im kinda wondering if anyone else has heard of done this. This ISNT a suggestion to your coworker! Im just asking out of curiousity. When i was a kid we could barely afford clothes. Much less a vet. When one of our dogs (we had a lot) got mange we'd treat it with... motor oil. It worked every time that i saw and didnt hurt the dogs. Now there are probably 1000 reasons thats a bad idea but its all we had, was a 'folk remedy' and seemed to work for the type of mange that dogs around there got. anyone else heard of this?

Sounds like electric fence is out. The dogs are part wolf and it DOES show in their temperament. Not in the "ooh scary" way the media and whacko akc types talk about.. but in that they get in 'wild' moods. I watched john pull a 4" thick vine out of a 40 foot tall tree tryingto get a squirrel. I and three people could have climbed that vine simultaneously and safely but he yanked it out trying to pull the squirrel down! They just have too much determination. As for 'real' electric fencing i wont do that. It looks horrid, would shock any children, animals that hit it, would shock me... and hearing them cry after getting nailed by it would be like a stake through the heart. Guess im a wuss but id rather lick the thing myself than hear them in pain. The concrete floor around the edges for a few feet is a great idea thanks. But i've actually watched dogs climb the 'inverted' fencing. Dogs usually jump over fence.. but they CAN climb. Even ladders, fencing etc if theyre determined. That would have kept every other dog ive ever had chained in but i swear these two are a handful. RE exercise and attention: Angel views me as her parent, center of her world. But even i bore her after a bit. She comes to get her love then has better things to do. John would spend his life laying nearby if he could though :) I DO wish i could let them run free. They're 'neighborhood dogs'. If you grew up in the country you know what i mean. They and hte neighborhood dogs spend their lives with miles and miles of woods, homes etc to explore. But those days are gone now at least here. The problem with keeping them inside is just plain Size. John likes to lay in the hallway. When john decides to lay in the hallway ... noone walks down the hallway. He seems positively dumbfounded that anyone would expect him to... MOVE. And as i know a lot of you guys know.. when you get a dog that big that doesnt want to move.. well ya learn to find alternative travel routes! I even went so far as to yell at him "MOVE john" and push him and sorta half kick him on the butt to get him to move. He grinned really big and licked my ankle. Then looked at me like i was an idiot *sigh* I think he was hoping id do it more. I eventually learned to jump over him. Hmm.. who's training whom here. Im going to try to bury a 'stake' bout 3 feet deep with those things that wont let lines get twisted and hope they cant manage to get tangled. I'm moving soon so hopefully i can find a place to rent in florida with plenty of room for them to run. I appreciate all the help a lot!

[quote]By the way, some pitbulls are GENETICALLY PREDISPOSED to have temperament issues[/quote] Would you care to cite the SCIENCE for that as your nickname implies at least some sort of degree?

My real point was that i dont think the guy was trolling or meant to be offensive (though the 'vicious breed' bs REALLY pisses me off). and its much better to make a convert than an enemy. Wouldnt you rather have him ,thee next time he hears the press say "mean breed" yell out "bullshoot" ? I would As for the real trolls have attem :)

I have two VERY healthy, active, dogs. They grew up running free as did every dog in the neighborhood.. but the town grew up around us :( And i none of us can let our dogs run because of um.. "yankees" moving in to our neighborhoods who are terrified of actual living beings protecting the neighhborhood. One is very very big the other is.. chow sized. I built fences up to 7 feet high. They climbed them. It got to be a game to them actually. Id 'repair' the fence when it was small. Theyd wait til i went inside.. and leave through an undiscovered flaw in my design. I tried to be pissed but .. well it was kinda funny. Once i had spent 1000 hours or so repairing all the ways they found around my system.. they just started jumping the 4' walls. So i went to 5'. Then six. Then about 6 and a half. If anyone tells you dogs cant laugh they are liars. I put them on 'runs' but they snapped the chains and cords like they were paper. Angel even tore a 8' tall post buried 2 feet deep in concrete out of the ground and drug it around the neighborhood on a logging chain (im not kidding). Now they are chained in a cage about 20' by 20' and it tears me up. They have to be chained And caged because angel rips the steel fencing to shreds when she doesnt dig under it. (Angel is chow/wolf and the SMALL one) I'm thinking of underground or wireless electric fencing, even though it does use pain to train them (my dogs have NEVER been put in pain purposefully). But beyond the horror of hearing one of them yelping.. im not sure it would work. They are escape artists and i have afeeling will 'bolt' to get through. ANY suggestions? any at all? Email me personally if you ahve any ideas. This is really driving me crazy. If it were just angel i could make her a house dog. She loves it and chow are CLEAN dogs. But john. Well he sorta knocks over things.. like kitchen tables. So theyre stuck being outside dogs Sorry for the length but htis is driving me nuts