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Fashionable Docking


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Guest Anonymous

It seems these days all tail-docking is done for fashion. Personally I am against the act 100% unless it if done for a medical purpose. In other words, I disagree with fashion docking. Most people dont know it, but docking does have a health risk. Sacral Arthritis. It is not life threatening but does cause the dog minor discomfort in that area. some say...oh it is only minor it will not kill it...but if you had to live with it, you'd not be very happy. I can't imagine causing any dog any type of discomfort just because I wanted it to look a certain way. To me it just isn't right. The tail is also a source of communication, as are the ears. Ear-cropping I am not too fond of, but I'm not against it.

If I offended anyone, I'm sorry, thsoe are just my views. :oops:

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courtnek, that's supposedly one of the reasons cropping/docking was done... though I don't know how much grabbing the ears/tail of a 100-200 lb dog -coming straight at you with full intentions of biting you- would do :-? It's also always been thought that cropping/docking gives the dog a more intense/scary look, as well as makes some breeds harder to read... both things that would probably be considered an advantage in a guard dog. I'm on the fence about docking/cropping... I think that for some breeds, it's better to be docked at an early age (a few days) then to mature and end up having to have the tail amputated after they bang it onto something and split it open. Yes, there's a chance it wouldn't happen, but if it does, it's not fun for owner OR dog, and will likely be more traumatic in the long run. On cropping, I don't think it's necessary for most pets, but for dogs who are out and about in rugged terrain or in brush, and/or have thin, flappy ears, I think it can be a preventive measure to ear tears. Annie's torn both her ears (4 or 5 times total in the 3 1/2 yrs we've had her), the left several times, to the point that she has noticeable chunks missing out of it. Torn ears are a huge pain in the a**, they often bleed like crazy (because of all the veins in the ears, close to the skin, easy to hit one), and take forever to heal because they're always flopping about, keeping a scab from forming. Here's a pic that shows the tears in her ear:
[img]http://seemesmile.com/photos4/2718740a.jpg[/img]
The biggest one is about 3/8" long, then there's one about 1/4", and another smaller one.
The first time she ripped an ear, we tried the following to keep it from reopening, and get it to close after it had opened up: styptic powder, chemical cauterizing sticks, liquid band-aid, super glue, the vet even put a stitch in the one tear, which did nothing to stop the bleeding when she'd shake her head, and ended up getting pulled out (a la Annie scooting her head across the floor) a few days after it was put in. We also tried taping her ear on top of her head, taping it under her neck, and just taping it and letting it hang... nothing worked. It eventually healed on it's own, but it took over two months before it was completely gone. And Annie's just a very active housepet... I can only imagine the damage some working dogs would end up with. I doubt that I would ever have a dog cropped, but I'm not about to condemn anyone who does, and do think that in some situations it's better for the dog overall than being left natural.

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Personally, just the thought of cropped ears makes my stomach turn. I'm against cropping 100% but docking on the other hand, I believe that it can actually be beneficial and its all over and done with when the dogs are very young. I know Boxers for example, 20% of undocked Boxers get severe tail injuries later in life and need their tails amputated, it is not only very painful for them but also very traumatic. I would rather just have my dog docked and not have to worry about all that extra stress, trauma, cost and pain later in life. Just MHO.

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[color=red]Personally, just the thought of cropped ears makes my stomach turn. I'm against cropping 100% but docking on the other hand, I believe that it can actually be beneficial[/color]

some dogs do have their ears cropped for medical reasons. others have them done for showing purposes, while others mere preference.

[color=red] its all over and done with when the dogs are very young[/color]

[color=#444444]ear cropping is also generally done when dogs are very young.[/color]

[color=red]I know Boxers for example, 20% of undocked Boxers get severe tail injuries later in life and need their tails amputated, it is not only very painful for them but also very traumatic[/color]

[color=#444444]wow! what a statistic...you learn something new everyday. but you absolutely cannot deny that the majority of tail docking, like ear cropping is purely cosmetic. one could argue that it is painful and not completely necessary in most cases, but the same could be said about altering.[/color]

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Guest Anonymous

both of my dogs have docked tails. but had them done before i got them Zoey is a rottie, that we adopted from the pound, she was found at 8 weeks walking around in the snow alone..
And Cody is an Australian Shepherd and had his tail done before i got him. i actually have pictures of him at 4 days old and he didn't have a tail then, We also rescued him from a rescue group after they talked the owner in to giving him up ( everyon ehere knows this, but in case your new. Cody is Deaf due to merle to merle breeding ) and she was going to have him put down..
so ig uess i can't really say much about hte docking since both of mine have it.. i think it's cute when they both wag their little nubs!!

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Oh I seen a Dob(looked like one anyway) at the petstore the other day, and it's ears were cropped and the poor thing didn't seem very happy either.

I'm completely against docking and cropping if not done for medical reasons. Sometimes ear cropping is necessary to avoid ear infections in certain breeds. But the tail I just don't understand!

I have had a tailess cat, BUT we didn't take it off... It was somehow ripped off her when she was out prowling the neighborhood! So she came home without a tail.. :o (yes we did take her to the vet afterwards)

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Guest Anonymous

Cropping is not done after 13 weeks. Veterinarians will not allow it after that, USUALLY, if they are good and smart. Like I said, I only agree with medical docking. Fashionable docking makes me sick, since it can cause sacral arthritis. I have seen many Rottweilers with tails, there are even a few breeders who keep the tails on, and the dogs are completely fine. Rottweilers are fashion-docked. Dobermans are usually docked because they have those lanky tails that can easily break, but I have seen Dobes with tails that were fine as well. Australian Shepherds are born with or without tails, so personally I would only have a natural bob-tailed Aussie if I were to have that breed.

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[quote name='labratian101']Cropping is not done after 13 weeks. Veterinarians will not allow it after that, USUALLY, if they are good and smart. Like I said, I only agree with medical docking. Fashionable docking makes me sick, since it can cause sacral arthritis. I have seen many Rottweilers with tails, there are even a few breeders who keep the tails on, and the dogs are completely fine. Rottweilers are fashion-docked. Dobermans are usually docked because they have those lanky tails that can easily break, but I have seen Dobes with tails that were fine as well. Australian Shepherds are born with or without tails, so personally I would only have a natural bob-tailed Aussie if I were to have that breed.[/quote]

Most responsible Dobe breeders crop at 7 or 8 weeks old. About the latest they will consider cropping is 12 weeks....I know a few who have imported pups that fit into that category.

Some other breeds of dogs may be cropped considerably later. I know that many Min Pin breeders wait and "grow their pups out" before they decide which to crop. It's not unusual for them to crop anywhere between 3 to 6 months.

In the USA, the type of tail a Dobe has varies widely. Since it's a huge fault to show a Dobe with a tail, Dobes are not shown with tails. While there has been one finished champion with natural ears here, I don't think there's ever been one with a natural tail. Because tails are so routinely docked, there has been no genetic selection for the "type" of undocked tail a Dobe would inherit. It just doesn't get into the picture. Dobes are a single coated breed so, the tails do tend to be lanky or whipy with little to protect them from injury but, I have seen the occasional Dobe with a tail that was somewhat thick and didn't apear to be as prone to injury.

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  • 5 months later...
Guest Anonymous

Ok...

Cropping is done not only as tradition and cosmetic but to reduce ear infection in some breeds. Many breeds are more prone to ear infection based on their enviroment and ears, so they are cropped. More light and air to the ear equals with MUCH less infection.

Docking is done 2-7 days of age and is not cosmetic.
- In working breeds it hurts a LOT MORE getting your tail broken and then amputated at a later age due to cattle stepping on it.
- In many sporting breeds without heavy hair coverage being in the underbrush tears up the tail horribly! Tail injuries and scratches bleed a lot more than a simple procedure done when you cannot feel much, the bones in your tail are soft, and you get stitches, bandages, and pain relievers.
Breeders HAVE TO assume their quality dogs will be working. If a dog is undocked and then set off to work in the fields unexpectly and comes back with a ripped up tail that needs to be amputated it will be pinned on the breeder.
Of course, usually breeders put contracts for people that want an uncropped/undocked dog.

Just my opinion.

---
-Kidwitch
English Cocker Addict

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[quote name='labratian101']Cropping is not done after 13 weeks. Veterinarians will not allow it after that, USUALLY, if they are good and smart. Like I said, I only agree with medical docking. Fashionable docking makes me sick, since it can cause sacral arthritis. I have seen many Rottweilers with tails, there are even a few breeders who keep the tails on, and the dogs are completely fine. Rottweilers are fashion-docked. Dobermans are usually docked because they have those lanky tails that can easily break, but I have seen Dobes with tails that were fine as well. Australian Shepherds are born with or without tails, so personally I would only have a natural bob-tailed Aussie if I were to have that breed.[/quote]

Rottweilers were not "Fashion-docked". I have attached for you the history of tail docking from the website
[url]http://www.amrottclub.org/dock.htm[/url]

History and Lore of Tail Docking

There has been much written about why Rottweiler tails were originally docked. Most dogs with docked tails do work hunting, herding, droving or draft work. The hunting dogs (gundogs and working terriers) often had to work in dense vegetation and briars and the tail would get injured in the brush. Terriers went to ground after foxes, badgers or other game, and the docked tail facilitated working in a confined space. The other working and herding dogs, as well as the hunting dogs, were docked for hygiene reasons.

Working and herding dogs worked livestock. Now, I'll ask you to visualize again; imagine you are in a barnyard in the spring If you have ever had the pleasure of doing chores around a barn, you know that stockdogs' tails, if not docked, will become fouled with the feces of the stock. On our dog's ancestors, this build up of feces acted like a weight on the tail and caused the tail to bang the hocks and become sore and sometimes cut. The feces also harbored bacteria and attracted flies, so the injured tail would become infected, causing the dog to become sick and possibly die. Since the Rottweiler was developed for cattle droving and general utility work on the farm, his tail was docked to prevent injury, sickness and death. In my opinion, docking prevented cruelty to working dogs.

Perhaps you have heard the lore of the "tail tax", which supposedly was a luxury tax imposed on owners of nonworking dogs. Since most working/herding/hunting dogs had docked tails, I suppose this makes sense and could be the reason the Rottweiler tail is docked closer to the body than many of the smaller breeds in these categories

( Please keep in mind that the above was copied from the website.)

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[quote name='Kidwitch']Ok...

Cropping is done not only as tradition and cosmetic but to reduce ear infection in some breeds. Many breeds are more prone to ear infection based on their enviroment and ears, so they are cropped. More light and air to the ear equals with MUCH less infection.

[/quote]

I know this is an old topic, one which I usually am kind of amibiguous on, but that statement typically amuses me. If I believed in that logic, Cockers would have cropped ears because I can't think of a breed with thicker ears and more prone to infection. More of the (American) Cockers that I see on a daily basis have ear problems than the ones who do not. :lol:

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As far as "cattle dogs" needing docked tails so they don't get dirty and infected. WASH THEIR TAILS! Talk about the epitome of LAZYNESS!
(I know that this was taken from a website and was "supposed" to be a reason for docking in the past. I just HAD to say what I did.)

And as far as "cattle dogs" needing docked tails so they don't get stepped on by cattle :roll: , PLEASE. They SHOULD be standing up and/or moving! A cow CANNOT step on a dogs tail if it is standing up. And if this is the case, WHY do Cardigan Welsh Corgis have LONG tails? They are cattle dogs.

To me, saying a dog needs a docked tail so that it doesn't get stepped on is like saying that they shouldn't have teeth so they don't get kicked out by a cow. :roll:


And Catahoula Leopard Dogs are some of the roughest, toughest cow dogs there is and they have LONG tails.

If this was the case, then WHY are Australian Cattle Dogs required to have LONG(Natural) tails? (In the showring.)

All my "ranting" aside, I am NOT opposed to tail docking. IMO, to each their own. If you don't like it, don't do it and DON'T get a dog that has a docked tail. Same with Cropping.

And I TOTALLY agree with whoever said that about Cockers and NASTY ears. Poodles are another breed that are prone to bad ears.

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I agree on the cockers and poodels, dobies ears air small, nearly hairless and semi-erect, especially in comparison. My mum had a cockapoo and we had to become ear experts. Preventative cleansing, treatment cleansing, ear hair trimming between trips to the groomer, no water in the ears if possible etc. I would seriously liked to have seen if cropping Joe's ears would have helped.

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Ok the Dobe ear cropping is bull. I worked at a vets for 11 and a half years and all Dobes here are natural and look wonderful, and we certainly didn't have a whole stream of dobes coming in with ear infections. Dogs prone to ear infections that we saw were westies first and foremost (which have erect ears) and GSD's which again have naturally semi erect ears. Personally I hate ear cropping even more than tail cropping and dogs with cropped ears here do rubbish in the ring, because cropped ears are not in the breed standard, and have no reason to be either. Cropping ears? There is no legitimate reason for it and anyone can spout about ear infections until the cows come home. Dogs ears should be cleaned out weekly as routine and have hairs trimmed from the inside flap of the ear to keep the weight of the ear minimal.

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