Never going to that petsmart again

[Horsefeathers!]

[quote name='Matty']If you are dealing with an older dog which is iffy, then any bad situations you expose it to will not improve but the dog. It will set it back even further. I perfer positive controlled situations for socializing dogs.[/quote]
You say "[u]will[/u] set it back" definitively. I prefer "[u]can[/u] set it back." I've fostered many dogs who were nervous and shy, but frequent outings to places like PetWhatevers were perfect for socialization. Perhaps it was because I DID control the environment. I do not tolerate rowdy children when I don't have dogs with me and I don't put up with them when I do have dogs with me. I'm well aware of my surroundings in these places enough to get rid of (for lack of a better way to put it) a rowdy kid before it's a problem for my dog. I do allow POSITIVE interactions with my fosters which is what builds the confidence. So while it "will" set YOUR dogs back further, I've had much success. I've still yet to see an explanation of how to socialize a dog without, well, allowing it to socialize.

[quote]I know quite a few people whose children suffer from a condition called ADD. The children are very hard to control if not doped up on medication. The parents have a very difficult time controlling the kids.[/quote]
Why is this MY problem? Label your kid any way you want. It's still not MY job to put up with them. As I pointed out above, I can deal with these "behavioral" issues with people who are trying... the ones who acknowledge there is a problem and maybe at least try to get the kid outside until the episode is over, or make an effort to do ANYTHING but stand there shrugging their shoulders. My biggest rant is with the parents who just stand back, do nothing and slap some label on their child as if they are powerless to do anything.

[quote]In a perfect world all parents would have perfect obedient children, in a perfect world all owners would have well behaved dogs. We don't live in a perfect world. I always expect the unexpected from children no matter the situation.[/quote]
By the same token, expect the unexpected from dogs no matter the situation. No one has explained to me yet how it is children have such free reign to terrorize dogs because "kids will be kids" or "he has a disability," but dogs must be perfectly behaved robots and only allowed in public once they're well socialized, but they mustn't be socialized in public. Catch 22? Once and yet AGAIN, I'm not talking about blatantly aggressive dogs, but dogs that [i]need[/i] socialization. Make whatever excuse, or hide behind whatever label, but I still believe it is extremely irresponsible of a parent to let their child run up to another living being whether it is a human or dog. So the kid has ADD or whatever else. What's keeping that parent from holding his hand to make sure he stays there? Just DO something besides stand there like a knot on a log while the kid is on a rampage. Why is that so unreasonable?

I just don't get this. Looking at the big picture, children are allowed everywhere except bars and clubs. There are very few places that allow dogs. Why is it so hard for these parents to at least try to maintain SOME control over these kids in the few places we are allowed with dogs? I don't care what kind of label you slap on them, I'm absolutely, undeniably, positively NOT going to allow someone else's "problem" to become mine. If it sounds cold hearted, then at least be glad [u][i]I[/u][/i] don't have children! I am!

[Cairn6]

[b]I think parents need to teach their children but not all parents are going to do it and it's not the child's fault. And since we have animals that could potentially harm the child we have to be more careful. Children are not animals they are humans that is why we can't limit there trips to places where dogs are allowed. If we don't control our dogs guess who will be going it won't be our children it will be our dogs. You will never get society to allow children to not be allowed in a petstore. It's actually quite ridiculous. It's no different then say breed stereotyping since all children don't act like this you can't ban all children.

I don't control my niece because she is not an animal. What I do is teach her the best and most exceptable way to behave. I have helped raise her since she was a baby and now do it myself. I have been lucky because she seems to have a natural desire to do what is right. She is not going to do what is right though if she doesn't know the right thing to do. Children are blank slates. If the parents aren't going to teach them then you can't expect them to know. How is a 5 year old going to know that bouncing a frisbee on the ground is going to scare your dog if no one tells her that? And unlike some of you I happen to believe that it's all our responsiblities to make sure if we see a situation where a child could be in danger to speak up even if it angers the stupid parent. If we don't protect them from their idiotic parents who will. Some of you talk as if they are some sort of alien being. I have heard stories of some of you speaking up to protect a dog why wouldn't you do that for child. [/b]

[Horsefeathers!]

[quote name='Cairn6'] If we don't protect them from their idiotic parents who will. Some of you talk as if they are some sort of alien being. I have heard stories of some of you speaking up to protect a dog why wouldn't you do that for child.[/quote]

Actually, I do. I'll report abuse and neglect and have no problem confronting people. I've turned my own family members in. I don't want to see anyone, animal or human, mistreated. It still doesn't mean I like ill mannered kids. I'm also not trying to place one life above another, or compare dogs to children (no, I love my dogs more... ok, sorry... *snicker*), but I just feel that if humans are supposed to be the more intelligent of the species, we'd use better sense instead of so many "out of my control" excuses.

Does it not make sense that pedophiles are seeking easy targets? What makes a kid an easier target than not being under his parents' control, allowed to wander up to strangers at will?

I have my own 11 year old kid sister that I've raised and helped raise since birth. No kid is a bigger brat to her mom than she is. I don't have those problems with her because I refuse to battle. I'm the adult, I'm in control, case closed. We can negotiate other issues, clothes, hair, "expression," whatever, but when it comes to safety and stranger danger, I won't. Throughout this kid's life, I can honestly say that I could account for her every second she was in my care. I've NEVER had to worry about her roaming away from me AND she's been slapped with the ADHD label. When she's with me, she's MY responsibility (dammit *mutter*) and I'm not going to have to wonder where she is or who she's bothering, [u]or[/u] who's bothering her. Her mom, on the other hand, tries to argue with her, negotiate with her and all that. As a result, this kid has been bitten in the face, lost in the woods, etc., etc., etc., throughout her life because her mom tried to "teach" her, but let the ultimate decisions be made by the kid. I'm sorry, but I don't buy it. I'm not going to endanger her life by giving a CHILD the responsibility of making decisions that are best handled by adults. It turns out this kid is happy and well mannered with me and knows how to behave. I don't have to put up with the tantrums, the whining and the obnoxious behavior her mom does (and dismisses it as result of ADHD). This kid thinks I rock and LOVES spending time with me. Could it be because I took away the stress of her having to worry about her role in my household by being the [u]adult[/u]??

Nope, nothing anyone can tell me is going to make me buy the excuse that "kids will be kids" when ignoring obnoxious behavior. It's not to say I expect all kids to be perfect. Only that I expect parents to PARENT their children, not stand idly by expecting total strangers to babysit for them.

[Cairn6]

[quote]Does it not make sense that pedophiles are seeking easy targets? What makes a kid an easier target than not being under his parents' control, allowed to wander up to strangers at will? [/quote]
First of all I don't think children should be allowed to wander. And second it's actually old thinking to suggest a child not speak to strangers. It's actually better under your supervision to allow them to speak with strangers that is how they get the ability to kind of get the feeling there is something wrong like an adult can after dealing and speaking to many different people.

[quote]I have my own 11 year old kid sister that I've raised and helped raise since birth. No kid is a bigger brat to her mom than she is. I don't have those problems with her because I refuse to battle. I'm the adult, I'm in control, case closed. We can negotiate other issues, clothes, hair, "expression," whatever, but when it comes to safety and stranger danger, I won't. Throughout this kid's life, I can honestly say that I could account for her every second she was in my care. I've NEVER had to worry about her roaming away from me AND she's been slapped with the ADHD label. When she's with me, she's MY responsibility (dammit *mutter*) and I'm not going to have to wonder where she is or who she's bothering, [u]or[/u] who's bothering her. Her mom, on the other hand, tries to argue with her, negotiate with her and all that. As a result, this kid has been bitten in the face, lost in the woods, etc., etc., etc., throughout her life because her mom tried to "teach" her, but let the ultimate decisions be made by the kid. I'm sorry, but I don't buy it. I'm not going to endanger her life by giving a CHILD the responsibility of making decisions that are best handled by adults. It turns out this kid is happy and well mannered with me and knows how to behave. I don't have to put up with the tantrums, the whining and the obnoxious behavior her mom does (and dismisses it as result of ADHD). This kid thinks I rock and LOVES spending time with me. Could it be because I took away the stress of her having to worry about her role in my household by being the [u]adult[/u]??[/quote]
Well that's great but no one is speaking of your parental abilities I am speaking about the safety of children whose parents don't parent them. It may not be fair but the truth remains that some parents don't care and will continue to allow there children to run up to strange dogs without telling them the proper way to approach a dog. This is the reason why we have to be careful. It's not about being fair it's about reality.

[quote]Nope, nothing anyone can tell me is going to make me buy the excuse that "kids will be kids" when ignoring obnoxious behavior. It's not to say I expect all kids to be perfect. Only that I expect parents to PARENT their children, not stand idly by expecting total strangers to babysit for them[/quote]
No one should ignore obnoxious behavior but the truth is some parents do and don't teach them and if they child doesn't know the proper way to behave then you can't expect them to do it. Do you expect your puppy to act the same way as a full grown adult dog? No you expect them to act like a puppy until they learn. Some parents just don't care to teach them. Can you change that? No probably not. No one is saying you need to babysit for others children just make sure your dog doesn't hurt them because it's not good for you, your dog, or the child.

[Horsefeathers!]

Actually, I think we're on the same side here.

[coastie_wife]

LOL, I think *most* of us are on the same side here....we may simply have different ways of expressing it. I liken this subject to a Christmas party I helped run for my son's kindergarten teacher. One of his *girlfriends* was a beautiful young girl who was very mature for her age. Her mother and I hit it off, and we talked throughout the party. She was her mothers only child, born when her mother was 46 and her father was 31 :lol: Her daughter was not an unbelieveably rowdy young girl, but was kind of free-spirited (as was her mother). Daughter talks back to her teacher? She's being 'very vocal for her age'. Daughter takes her cookies and crumbles them all over the room? She's 'feeling her environment, exploring textures'. She starts running around screaming in the middle of the party? She's 'very expressive, isn't she?'.

It was like talking to someone who knew parenting only through textbooks on dealing with toddlers. Never mind that the little girl was 6, not 3. I also ran into her later that year in a retail store. Said little girl was wandering around while her mother was shopping. Stopped to talk to me for 10 minutes, and finally I took her with me to find her mother, who had no idea where she was, and wasn't concerned enough to look for her. This was a HUGE store where at least 100 people were.

There are parents out there who simply don't care enough to corral their children, or who feel that children are free spirits who should be allowed to do whatever they feel. It is up to we pet owners to protect our dogs from these children, since it's obvious that the parents aren't protecting their children from our dogs 8)

[piperstubbys]

Some people and their kids. Amazes me. My daughter knows better. Before she even heads toward someones dog she asks me if it's ok and (situation permitting and getting the "ok" looks from the owner) I say ok and then she has to Walk up and ask permission from the owner for each dog if more than one. Isn't this proper edicit (sp??) for dog petting - mind you she is 10, Iwould never let her run up to a dog when she was smaller. How crazy!

We have had similar things happen at the park. One day when I was walking Piper and Leo around waiting for my daughter's softball game to start, we were just standing there talking with friends, both dogs sitting nicely by my side and I see this other lady a bit away from us with her little poodle and min schouzer. For some reason Piper is scared of little dogs (mean vicisious pittie!) and Leo thinks they are squeaky toys and wants to eat them. Well, this little girl goes walking up to Grandma and her dogs and Grandma hands her the leash of the Min Schouzer. The little girl, maybe 6 years old, sees us about this time and comes walking over. I tell her when she is about 15 feet away walking straight to us that these doggies don't want to play right now - doesn't bat an eye lash keeps coming. She gets closer and Leo gets up and is now very interested and poor Piper is hiding behind me cause now this little dog is barking like crazy at them. I continue to tell her to stop and she keep s coming, looking at her dog and then mine. She got about 2 feet from Leo and he barked - THIS FINALLY got Grandma's attention and she yelled for the girl to get away from those dogs! I mean yelled like my dogs were nuts and she was scared. OMG! But finally the little girl walked off back to Grandma. Stupid people bother me!

[DogPaddle]

I think the premise that "kids will be kids" or that no matter what you do kids can't be taught to behave in a safe manner is bunk and underestimates 98% of kids over 4.

Kids are smarter and more capable than most people give them credit for, including their parents sometimes. Most are more than capable of being reliable safe or doing many other things if we only indicate exactly what we expect and don't create excuses for them that they don't need. Having said this - I would still never leave my neices alone with my dog until they're at least 8 or 9 - and that is IN MY OWN HOME, parents so should not be allowing there kids to run loose IN A PUBLIC DOG FREINDLY SPACE.

I think the whole ubersafe, kidcentric, no accountability atmosphere that has developed is really detrimental to developing children who grow into well adjusted, responsible, aware, compasionate, accountable adults who benefit society.

I think dogs that have no overt aggression issues deserve a shot at socialization regardless of age. I think places like Petsmart are one of the steps in a process. And yes mistakes may occur, but I know if its me, my dogs will be on a leash and if there body language changes I can stop it before it causes injury -

I can CONTROL the dog even if its behaviour is not perfect.

But, if there are a bunch of unruly children whos parents have entitlement issues around - it robs me of an opportunity. So why should that not irritate me, why should I not complain.

I will hold parents accountable to CONTROL the child even if its behaviour is not perfect expecially in a place like Petsmart.

[Shenanigans]

I think newfiemom and Cassie might be able to sympathise with me, but I find kids are just drawn to Shenanigans. It doesn't matter where I go, if there are kids, they are there wanting to hug the big giant teddybear walking along. And thankfully Shenanigans is a very stable dog, he has been startled, but he has never reacted negatively.

Banzai used to be very much the same way, but he's starting to age and would rather have his space, unless the kids are deemed "his", in which case, he becomes quite protective of them.

I don't think I could have a dog that wasn't safe around people or other dogs. I know a lot of people do and have done wonderous things with their animals and go to great lengths to keep everyone safe, I just think that for myself I don't want to be anymore vigilant than I am. And I am extremely vigilant.

I have shown at various pet shows for the express intent of education. I have shown at the Royal Winter fair which is an EXTREMELY busy event with about a million people throughout the week, children, schools, not to mention hundreds if not thousands of every kind of conceivably domesticated animal. I still shudder when I think of parents just letting their kids run wild among dogs, horses, cattle, pigs, goats you name it, not to mention thousands of people on any given day. Their justification is that if these animals are at a show, they must be safe to anything a kid can unleash. I think this is very dangerous behaviour.

I STRONGLY believe that it is a parent's duty to protect their child. So if you do bring your kids into a Petsmart, yes, expect there are going to be dogs, and expect that there are going to be dogs that might not be so great with kids, and expect that if your kid runs around behaving incorrectly towards dogs, they're going to get told off. If your kid doesn't routinely ask to pet the dog, then you hold that child's hand, if they have ADD, you hold their hand or consider that a place such as a petstore with various dangers and stimulations isn't the best place for your child if you cannot properly protect him/her. Frankly, it drives me mad that kids are wandering around pet stores or any stores without direct supervision. I have a duty to keep my dog protected and safe, which is why I don't let them wander around a pet store, parents have the very same duty to keep their children safe.

I just spent a week at a family campsite, a place where kids were roaming free and at will. 95% of these kids were the children of teachers and none of them had any problems whether they were 3 or 13 asking if they could pet the dog and all of them did. I thoroughly enjoyed myself because the kids played safe and yet managed to be kids.

[Canis erectus]

No matter what parents should and shoudn't do with their children is ultimately irrelevant. With the victim oriented society that most of us are surrounded with, it is our responsibility as dog owners to fend off crumb-snatcher attacks on our dogs. It's not always easy, and sure as hell not fair, but that's the way it is. My China is not stranger friendly, but I do not worry where I should or shouldn't take her because, left to her own devices she is more well behaved than 90% of all children and dogs (which is really funny because I do minimal training). That, and I remain aware of what my dogs are doing and what other peoples' children and dogs are doing even though they may not.

As for any parents who doesn't at least attempt to teach basic dog saftey to their children: SHAME on them. I say that as both a parent and a dog owner, my little girl is 9 months old and is already being taught respect for the animals of the house. Dog saftey is just as generic and important to teach to children as is traffic saftey (look both ways...), household saftey (don't touch, hot!), or car saftey (buckle up). I mean, c'mon there are BASIC rules all people, both children and adults, should know about animals in general. Honestly speaking I have almost as much touble with adults trying to reach at and grab ahold of China, which is even more of a problem because the taller a person is, the more nervous she is of them.

But what can I do? I can't teach everyone in the world the proper way to respect animals. All I can do is remain aware of potential "dog-leeches" and if I can't fend them off, at can at least count on my happy little ding-a-ling Zoey to run interference for China.

By the way, this probably won't be a popular comment, but I think it would serve some children good to get nipped by a dog sometime. It seems that some children (and adults) can only learn some things from experience.

[courtnek]

Just on a side note - some people have commented that it's irrational to expect parents to not bring their kids to PetWhatevers. I never stated that should be the case. Take your kids anywhere you want, but CONTROL them, even if that means a harness and leash. Some people dont want to be bothered. that's what annoys me, not the kids themselves. and yes, I have told parents off when I've discovered who was NOT controlling the kid. I expect my space, and my dogs space, to be respected. The neighbors got a major talking to when one of the neighborhood kids was caught by me trying to climb the fence into my yard, to retrieve a ball. both dogs were out there. Would they bite? probably not. If they did, guess who's liable. Its the "swimming pool" law for dogs. If you have a swimming pool, and its not covered up/locked down/totally inaccessible, and a child or person drowns in it, even if they had to climb your fence to get to it, YOU'RE liable. It's considered an "attractive nuisance"....

[Cairn6]

[quote name='Horsefeathers!']Actually, I think we're on the same side here.[/quote]
:lol: Yeah your right we are. I find it really funny that we happen to agree with one another more often then not yet we got into a big tiff when I first got here. We must have both just been grumpy that week. :lol:

[DogPaddle]

Thanks Mei-Mei.

[imported_Cassie]

[quote]I think newfiemom and Cassie might be able to sympathise with me, but I find kids are just drawn to Shenanigans. It doesn't matter where I go, if there are kids, they are there wanting to hug the big giant teddybear walking along. And thankfully Shenanigans is a very stable dog, he has been startled, but he has never reacted negatively. [/quote]
[b]Shenanigans Wrote[/b]
You get that too :wink: :lol:
I was at a dog jog, had my Newfoundland Dilon with me...as I was talking to a friend I glanced around just in time to see a mother "placing" her toddler on my dogs back :o thank goodness my Newf's are gentle gaints and nothing fazes them :wink: I was quite shocked at the stupidity of the mother of this child. If the parents don't know how to approach a dog, how in the heck do we expect them to teach their children.
In the province I live in we have implimented a dog learning course for all elementary students which I think is great. It teaches children why its best not to approach strange dogs and how to act if a dog is loose. This course is taught by a K-9 unit police officer. He visits the schools with his partner (a GSD). This is just about the best thing we can impliment into our school system. When you have parents who don't have a clue them selves...its nice to know "some one" is out there to teach them dog smarts.
I have met more stupid adults who have approached my dogs in very strange manners :-? it frightens me that they are the ones teaching their children how to act :o

[/quote]

[Queen Bitch]

I share the Newfie folks pain. Kids LOVE Conar because he is a big white "polar bear". Thankfully he loves every single person on earth and is a very mellow dog. We haven't taken him to and Petwhatever though, he has a bit of an issue with leash aggression and other dogs. :roll:

[Cairn6]

Children love Toto too because of the obvious tie to the Wizard of Oz and they all want to pet Toto. Some I think actually believe it's the same dog. I don't mind though he loves children and gives them the biggest wiggles and kisses.

[Shenanigans]

Oh geeze, I had a parent try to place their kid on Shenanigans back when he was 12 months old. I was at the Royal Winter Fair and had about 20 people surrounding me wanting to pet Shenanigans. I was quite alarmed when I saw the parent holding their child over my puppy's back, and boomed out NO, DON'T YOU DARE! I didn't mean to raise my voice, but I was actually quite frightened. *brrrr*

We need a kid/dog safety program here in Ontario. I know several trainers and behaviourists have gone into schools, but there is nothing mandated here in the curriculum. I think it only makes sense, heck we had Elmer the Safety Elephant, I think they now need a Shenanigans the Safety Dog! ;)

[imported_Cassie]

Shenanigans, that would be a wonderful idea for you to visit schools and teach children "dog sense". I think I read else where that you use your dog as a therapy dog already? you would have a perfect dog to demonstrate with.

I may have worded myself wrong when I stated my province implimented this program. Acutally this police officer took it apon himself to teach children after we had a horrible dog mauling which resulted in the death of a little boy. I havent been to one of his training sessions, but, I assume it is paying off. Even my little neices and nephews know enough to
stand like a tree" if a dog where ever to run up to them. Its very helpful for children whose parents have no dog smarts what so ever.

So, you share my experience of having a mother try to place their child on your Newf's back. I have never seen the likes of how people loose their senses when it comes to a Newf. I have actually heard parents encourage their children to go over and see the big teddy bears :-? I have even had adults run up and hug my Newf's and coo all over them, for alot of dogs this would put them into an offensive stance.
As for my other dogs, Beau (my Dobie mix) he attracts children like doo doo attracts flies. He is so goofy looking that they think of him as a comic book character come to life.
For Athena my Rottie, no, I have never ever had a child approach her, nor an adult. She is a friendly dog, but, I think her docked tail puts even little children on guard a little. The only people who approach Athena are bikers, and most men...I don't mind that at all. :wink: I use her as man bait.

[imported_Debbie]

I've heard both sides....some people LOVE Petsmart and some people HATE Petsmart.... We don't have one of those, we have something called PetDepot, which sells animals and supplies but doesn't offer any training, picture taking etc.....

About the KID from Hell :evil: .......her parents were totally out to lunch, what a couple of morons !! :roll:

I have always told my kids they cannot approach dogs they do not know.
They must ask permission to approach from the owner of the pet.
When we are in stores, they have also been taught not to touch merchandise.......
That kid playing with the frisbee and banging it on the floor, if she were my kid she would've been getting an instant swat on her backside !! :evilbat:

[imported_Debbie]

[quote name='"kendalyn"'][quote]
This is a little off topic, but I've noticed that it's not uncommon for people who love dogs to not be very enthused about little children. Does this ring true for anyone else? The correlation surprises me because I can draw a lot of similarities between dogs and kids.[/quote]

Not true for me.....I'm a dog lover through and through.
I love my 3 "Grrlz" with all my heart, even my hubby is jealous, he says they come before him !! :x
BUT, I have 4 kids, 3 grandchildren, and I have done Daycare for kids (all ages) for the past 20 years. :wink:
And I think you're right to a degree kendalyn, dogs and kids act very much alike in some instances :wink: !! Especially when they're being naughty !! :lol: :lol:

[dogsgalore]

Shenanigans,
Do you mean the Royal Manitoba Winter Fair? Cool! I go there almost every year I may have seen your dog! Was he the Newf in the Superdogs? :D

[Cairn6]

[quote name='"Debbie"'][quote name='kendalyn'][quote]
This is a little off topic, but I've noticed that it's not uncommon for people who love dogs to not be very enthused about little children. Does this ring true for anyone else? The correlation surprises me because I can draw a lot of similarities between dogs and kids.[/quote]

Not true for me.....I'm a dog lover through and through.
I love my 3 "Grrlz" with all my heart, even my hubby is jealous, he says they come before him !! :x
BUT, I have 4 kids, 3 grandchildren, and I have done Daycare for kids (all ages) for the past 20 years. :wink:
And I think you're right to a degree kendalyn, dogs and kids act very much alike in some instances :wink: !! Especially when they're being naughty !! :lol: :lol:[/quote]
I agree children and dogs are so alike. I have never understood how a dog person could dislike children when they are that much alike. Children and dogs are both innocent and need to be taught how to behave. My 3 dogs often remind me of children. They fight over toys, they want to be first all the time, they get into everything, and they show you so much love.

[Cairn6]

Oops double post. :oops:

[Shenanigans]

[quote]Do you mean the Royal Manitoba Winter Fair? Cool! I go there almost every year I may have seen your dog! Was he the Newf in the Superdogs? [/quote]

Sorry, I meant the one in Ontario. Like many people in my province and indeed city, I believe I live in the centre of the universe. My apologies. Shenanigans and I have done a lot of pet education at the local level where we are usually set up in a booth with the CKC.

[quote]Shenanigans, that would be a wonderful idea for you to visit schools and teach children "dog sense". I think I read else where that you use your dog as a therapy dog already? you would have a perfect dog to demonstrate with. [/quote]

I'd love to get involved with that, I've been investigating ways to make it work. Ideally I'd like to do it for a fee, since I would have to cover the cost of insurance and travel, but I'd have to keep it as low as possible, I'd want such a program to be accessible to everyone within a reasonable distance (no driving up to Thunder Bay for me! lol). Shenanigans is a therapy dog, he's quite a star for it, it's just amazing the kind of hype these dogs create. Last night we walked to our local park where everyone it seems was having a picnic of some sort. Shenanigans had people from all over the park who came from all parts of the world to see him. The only people I could understand were the french africans, and only using my pathetic french skills could I communicate!

If you guys want man bait, especially men in uniforms, get a GSD as handsome as Banzai. oops, who am I kidding, no other dog in the world is as handsome as His Majesty. ;)

[quote]This is a little off topic, but I've noticed that it's not uncommon for people who love dogs to not be very enthused about little children. Does this ring true for anyone else? The correlation surprises me because I can draw a lot of similarities between dogs and kids.[/quote]

I've done a bit of personal research on this. Using a loose generalisation, I find those who keep dogs because they believe that they are truly altruistic creatures and won't hurt them like people have aren't too fond of children, let alone people. That said, it's just a generalisation so no biting off my head. :D

Personally I love kids, I don't like misbehaving ones, but I usually direct my annoyance to their parents, likewise with dogs. I've always been a little nervous around smaller ones, but I've found Shenanigans to be a great icebreaker and has helped me to get to connect with wee ones a lot better. And what I've learned is, that they're a lot of fun to hang out with!

[Horsefeathers!]

[quote name='Cairn6'] I have never understood how a dog person could dislike children when they are that much alike. [/quote]

It's easy. See, to me, dogs and kids are NOTHING alike.

1. When you need a break, you can't take an afternoon off and leave the children home alone.

2. Dogs don't have kicking, screaming temper tantrums.

3. You can't legally kennel children.

4. If you leash a child, people look at you as if you have three heads where dogs on leashes are considered socially acceptable (hats off to those people who give society the middle finger by leashing their kids, anyway).

5. Dogs don't invite their friends over.

6. Dogs don't b*tch about their "stoopit" clothes.

7. You can spay/neuter dogs.

8. Dogs don't slam doors.

9. I can go out with friends without making arrangements for a babysitter or going to jail for leaving my child home alone.

10. No diapers.

11. They don't complain about dinner.

12. They don't ask to "borrow" my things.

13. They don't just take my things without asking (ok, that's not ALWAYS true :oops: ).

14. They sleep through the night.

15. They don't go through the whole Santa Claus thing. Whatever they get for Christmas, if anything, is fine with them.

16. Blah

17. So forth

18. Etc.


Ok, really, I'm just kidding :oops: . To be totally deadpan serious, though, I really don't view dogs as little humans or even similar. I just can't get into that whole "mommy/baby" thing with my dogs (not knocking the people who do... it's just not me). I love them for being DOGS and not because I think of them as furry children. I'm not a child hater... I just have no maternal desire, nor do I particularly care to be in kid company. I just don't find them and their antics entertaining, but then I'm not much of a people person to begin with. It doesn't mean I wish to marinate children in a fine wine sauce, or banish them to their own little island (hmmm... :evilbat: ), or hide behind bushes and throw rocks at them.

My worst nightmares begin with the words, "you're pregnant." :nerwy: :scared: