Never going to that petsmart again

[Cairn6]

Yeah well that's what I thought too until my brother and sister in law dropped my niece on my doorstep now I can't imagine life without her. :lol:

[corgilady]

:lol: I've been following this whole thread with great interest!

My children and my dogs are perfect, of course, and we have no issues. :D J/K

I'd like to add my 2 cents about children....they are NOT being raised the same way they used to be. I say this as a parent, foster parent, and teacher. Years ago, a child came up to pet one of my dogs once in a blue moon, and if I told them "no" or "always ask permission first", they shyly agreed and you knew they were going to obey.

Ten years ago, a kid ran up at a horse show and started petting my (leashed) Corgi, and I said-in a very kind voice- you know you should always ask permission before you pet a strange dog, and his mother started yelling "what did she SAY what did she SAY TO HIM!!!"

In the past year, I have had my boys to Petsmart, another pet store, park meets for dogs, and a few picnics. Every single time we've had "incidents" involving other people's kids. If I try to talk to them, the parents either interrupt or block me off. Never mind that THEIR child just jumped on top of a 12 inch tall dog; they don't want their kid to be told what to do. There is no opportunity to educate either the child or the parent because they know it all. I have always tried to speak kindly, and quite frankly if your kid just attacked my dog, I have earned the right to talk to him. My dogs are NEVER off leash, even at a picnic, so it's definitely the kid getting into 'our space'.

This all relates to the reason many of my friends are getting out of the teaching profession; parents don't want their kids to be told NO or DON'T or otherwise corrected or disciplined. It is a sad thing! Now I realize we're talking about parents in general, and that there are many exceptions. But I'm observing waaaaaaaaay too much of this blatant disregard for any sort of rules. One parent who comes to mind, in a non dog sort of situation, is a physician. I was speaking to his son about how much I expected him to practice piano. He was fairly new to me and this was our first conversation about it, and I was merely giving him information. The dad gets down on his knees to look into the boy's eyes and said, "but we won't make you practice if you don't want to honey, okay? You don't have to practice unless you feel like it!" :roll: Ya think that kid is told not to pet strange dogs??? Not on your life!!!

[Guest Anonymous]

[quote name='corgilady']:lol: I've been following this whole thread with great interest!

My children and my dogs are perfect, of course, and we have no issues. :D J/K

I'd like to add my 2 cents about children....they are NOT being raised the same way they used to be. I say this as a parent, foster parent, and teacher. Years ago, a child came up to pet one of my dogs once in a blue moon, and if I told them "no" or "always ask permission first", they shyly agreed and you knew they were going to obey.

Ten years ago, a kid ran up at a horse show and started petting my (leashed) Corgi, and I said-in a very kind voice- you know you should always ask permission before you pet a strange dog, and his mother started yelling "what did she SAY what did she SAY TO HIM!!!"

In the past year, I have had my boys to Petsmart, another pet store, park meets for dogs, and a few picnics. Every single time we've had "incidents" involving other people's kids. If I try to talk to them, the parents either interrupt or block me off. Never mind that THEIR child just jumped on top of a 12 inch tall dog; they don't want their kid to be told what to do. There is no opportunity to educate either the child or the parent because they know it all. I have always tried to speak kindly, and quite frankly if your kid just attacked my dog, I have earned the right to talk to him. My dogs are NEVER off leash, even at a picnic, so it's definitely the kid getting into 'our space'.

This all relates to the reason many of my friends are getting out of the teaching profession; parents don't want their kids to be told NO or DON'T or otherwise corrected or disciplined. It is a sad thing! Now I realize we're talking about parents in general, and that there are many exceptions. But I'm observing waaaaaaaaay too much of this blatant disregard for any sort of rules. One parent who comes to mind, in a non dog sort of situation, is a physician. I was speaking to his son about how much I expected him to practice piano. He was fairly new to me and this was our first conversation about it, and I was merely giving him information. The dad gets down on his knees to look into the boy's eyes and said, "but we won't make you practice if you don't want to honey, okay? You don't have to practice unless you feel like it!" :roll: Ya think that kid is told not to pet strange dogs??? Not on your life!!![/quote]

You just summed it up well.

However! It's not just the parents that are not giving children discipline...it's also the schools! I know in my son's school the parents who accept that their child misbehaved are the ones with children who are in the wrong more often than not. Those with parents who fight the school and the system...well their kids get away with murder.

Example...last year I dropped my son off and as he was going in the gate the teacher on duty was busy talking to the crossing guard (Flirting is more the word...he never did do his job) and this kid walked up to my son and punched him in the face.

I drove around to the office and went in demanding that something be done about this.

Both kids were pulled into the office. My son was told "Just don't talk to him any more". Seems my son was punched for saying good morning to a kid who didn't like him. The other kid was told not to hit and go back to class. Now the school has rules in place that say that for fighting or hitting a child is suppose to recieve a detention at least. This child got nothing! When I asked the principal why he didn't get anything I was told that the pricipal didn't feel like dealing with his mom AGAIN!

So because the principal doesn't want to "deal" with a kids mom (who no doubt it a bully like her son) the kid gets away with breaking rules...combine the two...you have a kid who learns that being a bully gets you what you want and that he is immune to the rules.

I remember the days when you screwed up in school you were AFRAID of going to the pricipals office or having your parents called. My son is like that...you tell him you are going to call his mom and he begs you not to! I've actually heard other kids dare someone in the office to call their parents.

[Shenanigans]

I have to take issue with my dogs regarding HF's post, *G* apparently my dogs have never learned that they're not supposed to:

Have temper tantrums. Shenanigans used to throw the worst ones when he didn't want to do something or go somewhere, he'd throw himself on his back and just kick wildly and not get up under any circumstance. Fortunately those terrible twos are over.

Invite friends over. Our backyard backs onto a valley which is city property and although not officially an offleash park, all the residents who have similar properties treat it as such since it's enclosed. Fortunately we're all extremely respectful of our precious space. Anyhow, whenever my guys are out in the yard and they hear one of their buddies running around, they send out the invite by barking up a racket and sure enough, their buddies are waiting by the fence, or in the case of some Vizzies, they've come over the fence!

b*tching about their clothes. Well, in Banzai's defense, the reindeer antlers were goofy looking, but I got an earful when I put them on his head.

Dogs do slam doors, they just slam them open instead of shut! Especially when your bathroom door is just ajar and you're on the toilet and your Newfoundland simply must burst in to show you his teddybear!

Dogs do sleep through the night, but certain dogs (ie my two) are just as difficult to get out of bed as a teenager. I had to literally drag Shenanigans out of the crate the other night as I wanted him to sleep upstairs and he wanted to stay in his crate. (I'm neurotic and like my dogs near me as much as possible)

I'm just kidding too of course, but I just found it funny how I could relate to your list with my dogs. :)

[imported_Debbie]

[quote name='Tammy'][quote name='corgilady']:lol: I've been following this whole thread with great interest!

My children and my dogs are perfect, of course, and we have no issues. :D J/K

I'd like to add my 2 cents about children....they are NOT being raised the same way they used to be. I say this as a parent, foster parent, and teacher. Years ago, a child came up to pet one of my dogs once in a blue moon, and if I told them "no" or "always ask permission first", they shyly agreed and you knew they were going to obey.

Ten years ago, a kid ran up at a horse show and started petting my (leashed) Corgi, and I said-in a very kind voice- you know you should always ask permission before you pet a strange dog, and his mother started yelling "what did she SAY what did she SAY TO HIM!!!"

In the past year, I have had my boys to Petsmart, another pet store, park meets for dogs, and a few picnics. Every single time we've had "incidents" involving other people's kids. If I try to talk to them, the parents either interrupt or block me off. Never mind that THEIR child just jumped on top of a 12 inch tall dog; they don't want their kid to be told what to do. There is no opportunity to educate either the child or the parent because they know it all. I have always tried to speak kindly, and quite frankly if your kid just attacked my dog, I have earned the right to talk to him. My dogs are NEVER off leash, even at a picnic, so it's definitely the kid getting into 'our space'.

This all relates to the reason many of my friends are getting out of the teaching profession; parents don't want their kids to be told NO or DON'T or otherwise corrected or disciplined. It is a sad thing! Now I realize we're talking about parents in general, and that there are many exceptions. But I'm observing waaaaaaaaay too much of this blatant disregard for any sort of rules. One parent who comes to mind, in a non dog sort of situation, is a physician. I was speaking to his son about how much I expected him to practice piano. He was fairly new to me and this was our first conversation about it, and I was merely giving him information. The dad gets down on his knees to look into the boy's eyes and said, "but we won't make you practice if you don't want to honey, okay? You don't have to practice unless you feel like it!" :roll: Ya think that kid is told not to pet strange dogs??? Not on your life!!![/quote]

You just summed it up well.

However! It's not just the parents that are not giving children discipline...it's also the schools! I know in my son's school the parents who accept that their child misbehaved are the ones with children who are in the wrong more often than not. Those with parents who fight the school and the system...well their kids get away with murder.

Example...last year I dropped my son off and as he was going in the gate the teacher on duty was busy talking to the crossing guard (Flirting is more the word...he never did do his job) and this kid walked up to my son and punched him in the face.

I drove around to the office and went in demanding that something be done about this.

Both kids were pulled into the office. My son was told "Just don't talk to him any more". Seems my son was punched for saying good morning to a kid who didn't like him. The other kid was told not to hit and go back to class. Now the school has rules in place that say that for fighting or hitting a child is suppose to recieve a detention at least. This child got nothing! When I asked the principal why he didn't get anything I was told that the pricipal didn't feel like dealing with his mom AGAIN!

So because the principal doesn't want to "deal" with a kids mom (who no doubt it a bully like her son) the kid gets away with breaking rules...combine the two...you have a kid who learns that being a bully gets you what you want and that he is immune to the rules.

I remember the days when you screwed up in school you were AFRAID of going to the pricipals office or having your parents called. My son is like that...you tell him you are going to call his mom and he begs you not to! I've actually heard other kids dare someone in the office to call their parents.[/quote]

I totally agree with both of you ladies !!!
I've done Daycare for near 20yr. and I can tell you that Parents don't have control of their kids anymore !! The Parents allow the Children to rule the roost (so to speak) If one child comes without a jacket on and it's the middle of winter......the parent is saying "I couldn't get Johnny to put his coat on....."
What the hell do you mean ?? You couldn't get him to ???
If that was my kid he'd have that coat on before we left the house, no discussion !!!
And a lot (I won't say everyone) has this attitude about their kids like...
"Not my kids, they wouldn't do that..." even if the darned kid was caught red-handed doing it !!! :evilbat:
Schools also have no control anymore over kids since they did away with corporal punishment. Now no one is afraid to go to the Principal's office because what's he going do ??? NOTHING !!! Because he can't !!
The worst he could possibly do is give the kid suspension and we all know the kid isn't going to mind that !!
Kids have no respect for adults or authority anymore, it's the way they're being raised.

P.S.....As far as corporal punishment in the schools go, I know that is a very touchy subject. :wink:
I personally made it all through school without ever being smacked by the Principal, I know plenty that did get cracked with the yardstick on the butt, and it certainly didn't kill them.
In elementary school I did get slapped on the back of the calf with a ruler by the Librarian for talking in the Library........I was guilty of the crime and I definitely made a note to speak more softly !! :lol:

[coastie_wife]

It does astound me how many parents have NO control over their children now adays. Apparently I'm the meanest mom ever....because he has NEVER had a say in things which could bring harm to him or other people. Don't want to wear a coat in winter?? TOO FRIGGING BAD--put it on or lose ALL privilages, lol. Same with most behavior in public....you act correctly or you lose toys, games, tv, etc....

Son and I went to a childrens activity area yesterday, and I was astounded by how many parents (with children between 2 and 6) just *allowed* their kids to run over, cut in line, or take things from other children....in many cases my son, who is 7 and much bigger. Apparently it's *my* job to keep my 7 year old from smearing their 4 yr old all over the pavement.....not *their* job to correct their child when they do something dumb like take something from a child who is older, but not older enough to understand he has to take the *high road*.

These people are the reason we have to protect our dogs at all cost. Obviously they aren't protecting their children.....

[Jetta_Pup]

I cant say too much i have 2 kids (2yr old and a 3yr old) if im by myself its hard to control both of them. which is why dog and both kids go IN the CART!...lol My kids play w/ every dog they see but they ask before they touch. :fadein:

if you want to socialize a dog a good place to go (if yours alows dogs) is Lowes. There isnt usually too many people so the dog wont get too frightend but they get some interaction w/ people :)

[DogPaddle]

I used to work daycare and recreation programs and I [b]loved[/b] kids, but, things have changed. I do not like were people are going with kids. I had to leave that type of jobs. I still will work with teens (I have no idea why I find them more tolerable, maybe because if they really don't like your program, event, class etc. they just skip.)

I once in a rec program had some difficulty with one child who was bullying a younger child, I confronted him directly and told him not to pick on her. He told me he hadn't been. As I had witnessed it I told him "Don't give me that nonsense." He was quite bright and had good verbal skills and used them extensively to manipulate things but he seemed to think of it as a game and I wasn't going to play. I had found that if I refused to play he was actually fairly co-operative, not that bad of a kid. However, my senior coworker got in a right tizzy over my comment. She felt it was very harsh and did not allow for conversation and "implied that he was lying." I actually ended up having to have a meeting with my supervizor over it. That was right near the end. :roll:

[Cairn6]

[quote name='Shenanigans']I have to take issue with my dogs regarding HF's post, *G* apparently my dogs have never learned that they're not supposed to:

Have temper tantrums. Shenanigans used to throw the worst ones when he didn't want to do something or go somewhere, he'd throw himself on his back and just kick wildly and not get up under any circumstance. Fortunately those terrible twos are over.

Invite friends over. Our backyard backs onto a valley which is city property and although not officially an offleash park, all the residents who have similar properties treat it as such since it's enclosed. Fortunately we're all extremely respectful of our precious space. Anyhow, whenever my guys are out in the yard and they hear one of their buddies running around, they send out the invite by barking up a racket and sure enough, their buddies are waiting by the fence, or in the case of some Vizzies, they've come over the fence!

b*tching about their clothes. Well, in Banzai's defense, the reindeer antlers were goofy looking, but I got an earful when I put them on his head.

Dogs do slam doors, they just slam them open instead of shut! Especially when your bathroom door is just ajar and you're on the toilet and your Newfoundland simply must burst in to show you his teddybear!

Dogs do sleep through the night, but certain dogs (ie my two) are just as difficult to get out of bed as a teenager. I had to literally drag Shenanigans out of the crate the other night as I wanted him to sleep upstairs and he wanted to stay in his crate. (I'm neurotic and like my dogs near me as much as possible)

I'm just kidding too of course, but I just found it funny how I could relate to your list with my dogs. :)[/quote]

[img]http://www.emotipad.com/emoticons/Funny%20Above.gif[/img] When they are puppies though they don't sleep through the night. I am still going through that right now with my 5 month old Sheltie. He wants to play at all sorts of hours of the night.

[Cairn6]

All of you who are talking about how the children aren't being parented anymore are totally right. What really makes me nervous is that these are the people that will be taking care of us when we are all old. Kind of scary huh? :o

[courtnek]

I agree with most all of this. Parents are too lax and the schools afraid to do anything about it in most cases. Here, it is exactly the opposite. The school Kyle was in (H.S.) had a "no tolerance" policy - TO EVERYTHING.

One of their rules was "NO fighting" - which I can agree with. To me that means control your temper and work it out. To THEM it meant that if someone smacked your kid, and he defended himself, HE was in trouble.

Now, IMO, if your kid starts a fight, he should be in school suspended. All day in homeroom. or community service. Their policy was that if your kid got INVOLVED in a fight, both parties got a home suspension. My son was suspended twice, because he was attacked by older and bigger kids (and there were plenty of witnesses) and yet, even with the witnesses (some of them teachers) he got suspended as well as having to go to the hospital because the kid knocked him over and his head hit the cement. He came up fighting, and I dont blame him. He was attacked from behind. I would have come up fighting too. and IT WAS THE SAME KID BOTH TIMES!!!

His parents couldnt care less...they were never home to take care of him anyway. My kid had to pay the price of defending himself from attack, so yes, I was one of those parents who was in the principals face. My comment to her was "you can take your policy and put it you-know-where.....my kid is NOT going to be a punching bag for a KNOWN bully you cant seem to do anything about....."Kyle was not the only kid on this kid's
sh*t list....he had injured others as well, but his parents refused to do anything about him. They never even showed up for the conferences.

Kids fight. Especially teenage boys. But this kid was nasty, not a fair fight, usually a sneak attack. a typical bully.

[DogPaddle]

There seems to be this patern of not requiring anyone to take responsibility. That's why both boys got suspensions, after all if no ONE is responsible then they both must be at fault. :roll:
Of course, sometimes it is not one persons fault/responsibilty and those are the more difficult cases to manage properly but maybe that's why some schools are just not bothering.
I found working in rec ect that there was a big greasy wheel thing going on. For example, if some child was bullying others he was given extra attention, special privilidges or get this - given a position of responsibility in the group. This was because maybe the child was feeling bored or unchallenged! I sympathize with bored or unchallenged kids but there are limits and why should the good kids get constantly overlooked. :evil:

[corgilady]

[quote name='Tammy']You just summed it up well.

However! It's not just the parents that are not giving children discipline...it's also the schools! I know in my son's school the parents who accept that their child misbehaved are the ones with children who are in the wrong more often than not. Those with parents who fight the school and the system...well their kids get away with murder.[/quote]

[color=blue]I know it....the school teachers are AFRAID to correct the children. They know that parents will curse them, attack them, and in one incident I was personally involved in the principal advised the teacher to take the doorknob off the class room door ----the parent was coming to the school with a gun!!!! Why? Because the teacher had met with her to discuss her child's continual misbehavior![/color]
[quote name='Tammy']
Example...last year I dropped my son off and as he was going in the gate the teacher on duty was busy talking to the crossing guard (Flirting is more the word...he never did do his job) and this kid walked up to my son and punched him in the face.

I drove around to the office and went in demanding that something be done about this.

Both kids were pulled into the office. My son was told "Just don't talk to him any more". Seems my son was punched for saying good morning to a kid who didn't like him. The other kid was told not to hit and go back to class. Now the school has rules in place that say that for fighting or hitting a child is suppose to recieve a detention at least. This child got nothing! When I asked the principal why he didn't get anything I was told that the pricipal didn't feel like dealing with his mom AGAIN!

So because the principal doesn't want to "deal" with a kids mom (who no doubt it a bully like her son) the kid gets away with breaking rules...combine the two...you have a kid who learns that being a bully gets you what you want and that he is immune to the rules.

I remember the days when you screwed up in school you were AFRAID of going to the pricipals office or having your parents called. My son is like that...you tell him you are going to call his mom and he begs you not to! I've actually heard other kids dare someone in the office to call their parents.[/quote]

[color=blue]WE've had a situation like that too. My son was kicked in the back so hard he wore a footprint on his back, and the same kid broke my son's glasses. I approached the principal, who called both boys in and informed them that they really wanted to be friends. Yeah, right! The kid was never punished, and I had to pay for new glasses.....I called his mother and she said, it's your son's fault too....I said then why is it OUR glasses that are broken?[/color] :roll: