My murderously aggressive American Pit Bull Terriers

[Guest Anonymous]

[quote name='"gooeydog"'][quote]That would be a big and quite heartbreaking problem for most dog owners because it is a huge hassle but much more so because it means that the dogs (the ultimate pack animals) must be isolated and ignored far more of the time. [/quote]
Why does it mean that? What's to say that in multi dog homes where dogs need to be kept seperate, the dogs don't actually end up getting more quality attention as opposed to a multi dog homes where people treat the dogs as one unit for the most part, with a bit of one-on-one time for each. I've seen quite a few people that feel that because their dogs have each other to keep company with, they don't need as much human interaction. Granted, you could have people who would isolate their dogs and not give adequate attention, but that occurs even in "normal" multi-dog homes, even on homes where there's only one dog.

Well, maybe so, but here is what one person wrote about having dogs that needed to be kept separate:

Although I don't foster I have gone through something similar with [my dogs] since they have to be seperated 24/7. I felt as though I was ignoring one of them by being with the other & boy did [one of my dogs] let me know he was NOT happy about it. It broke my heart but I had no choice but split my time between the two. It wasn't as bad with [the other dog], although she did cry quite a bit at first when being left alone, she didn't really care who was with her, whether it be me, A. or little O.. [The first dog] is a HUGE momma's boy & nothing & no one could console him. He would howl like a hound. He has quite a knack for playing on my sympathies. We've been dealing with this situation for a little over a year now & as time has gone by it has become MUCH easier. [The second dog] is now fine with being alone & [the first dog] realizes he must be without his mommy sometimes & he won't die. They get used to it & so will you. Sneak in some "you" time with [your dog], even if it's just an extra few minutes a day, it'll make her feel special & it'll help you as well.

Sorry, but you can't convince me that a dog "who did cry quite a bit" when first left alone thinks that his/her life is greatly improved by the situation, much less the one who would "howl like a hound" and "nothing and no one could console him."

Of course, most dogs eventually give up howling when they are miserable when nothing ever changes. That doesn't mean they are no longer miserable, just that they are now resigned to being miserable. Even this owner doesn't claim that the second dog is happy about the situation, only that he now knows "he won't die." And owners love to rationalize a dog's misery by pretending that the dog is somehow manipulating them to try to play on their sympathies, since it is a lot easier (for the owner) to believe that than that the dog is just flat out miserable, especially when the owner has no choice (as with the case of dogs that have to be kept separate.). Look at the number of people who rationalize keeping whole "yards" of pit bulls on chains, virtually all the time. They claim the dogs they isolate this way are perfectly happy (but paradoxically also claim that they have a very strong bond with people--go figure).

This is not to say that some kind of separation isn't necessary in the case (very common with seriously dog aggressive dogs, since there is rarely another home willing to take them on) where the alternative to separation is death. Just that this is another huge price dogs pay for being dog aggressive.

primrose

[izzy]

[quote][img]http://img2.photobucket.com/albums/v11/gooeydog/February/anndarolled.jpg[/img][/quote]

What a wondeful pic!

:lol: :lol: :lol:

[odnarb]

[quote name='Cassie']There was a girl in my area of the world who bought an APBT (well bred) just for the fact that they were supposed to be non human aggressive...the dog mauled her so bad she ended up in the hospital and she barely got away from her own dog by locking herself in her bathroom and yelling out her window. The scariest thing was the APBT due to having such powerful drives did not calm down at all and had to be shot when the police arrived. The dog was well loved and spoiled...it became top dog, when the owner did some thing the dog didn't approve of it took into her...the women started screaming and tried to run which in turn made the attack esculate. Possibly this owner could have ruined any dog...this was her first dog she had owned...but, the out come of the attack was by far worse than what she may have received from a breed without the full series of predatory motor patterns and the enhanced drives.
[/quote]


I am curious, what makes you think that this APBT in particular was "well bred?"

[courtnek]

[quote name='odnarb'][quote name='Cassie']There was a girl in my area of the world who bought an APBT (well bred) just for the fact that they were supposed to be non human aggressive...the dog mauled her so bad she ended up in the hospital and she barely got away from her own dog by locking herself in her bathroom and yelling out her window. The scariest thing was the APBT due to having such powerful drives did not calm down at all and had to be shot when the police arrived. The dog was well loved and spoiled...it became top dog, when the owner did some thing the dog didn't approve of it took into her...the women started screaming and tried to run which in turn made the attack esculate. Possibly this owner could have ruined any dog...this was her first dog she had owned...but, the out come of the attack was by far worse than what she may have received from a breed without the full series of predatory motor patterns and the enhanced drives.
[/quote]

Cassie, in my experience, of having had to "break" many a dog of "top dog" aggression issues, that this is not only Pit's. I have broken shepherds, Malamutes, even Labs of the same aggression, because their owners did not know the proper procedures for training them to be subservient...or at the very least, less dominant.

?????????






I am curious, what makes you think that this APBT in particular was "well bred?"[/quote]

[cheekymunkee]

[quote]Although I don't foster I have gone through something similar with [my dogs] since they have to be seperated 24/7. I felt as though I was ignoring one of them by being with the other & boy did [one of my dogs] let me know he was NOT happy about it. It broke my heart but I had no choice but split my time between the two. It wasn't as bad with [the other dog], although she did cry quite a bit at first when being left alone, she didn't really care who was with her, whether it be me, A. or little O.. [b][The first dog] is a HUGE momma's boy & nothing & no one could console him[/b]. He would howl like a hound. [b]He has quite a knack for playing on my sympathies.[/b] We've been dealing with this situation for a little over a year now & as time has gone by it has become MUCH easier. [The second dog] is now fine with being alone & [the first dog] [b]realizes he must be without his mommy sometimes & he won't die[/b]. They get used to it & so will you. Sneak in some "you" time with [your dog], even if it's just an extra few minutes a day, it'll make her feel special & it'll help you as well[/quote]

Ahhh Primmy, quoting me directly from another board. Are you stalking me? Do you know where I live now based on the pictures that I posted & the breed of dog that I own???? Why don't you apply to join that board? We would LOVE to have you as a member. :evilbat: Oh and while I am at it, why don't you visit the Wolfdog boards anymore??? Please tell us.

First, lets' talk about Justice. She was a PUPPY, they often cry when they are left alone. No big deal, they get used to it, it hurts them not one bit. In fact, I believe ( and this is ONLY my opinion) that leaving them to themselves prevents seperation anxiety. I could be wrong but so far it has worked with my dogs. I have not had any problems with seperation anxiety.

Munkee will be 5 in October, until Justice came into my home, he was top dog ( in his mind) on top of being a HUGE momma's boy. Do my dogs look in the least like they are hurting by being seperated?? Neither of them suffer from seperation anxiety. Munkee is a velcro dog, he wants to be attached to my hip. When I am at work, he sits by the window & watches for me to get home. He howled when I was with Justice because he knew I was in the house but not with him, he wasn't howling becasue he was LONELY, he was howling because I WAS NOT WITH HIM. He was acting out because of jealousy, he wanted me all to himself. It is written plainly in my post, here I will bold it for you so that you cannot miss it. Munkee does NOT suffer from being without me, he is used to me going to work, therefore it was not THAT difficult for him to learn to be without me while I am IN the house. It took a while but like I said, he is a momma's boy & very spoiled. He knows how to play on my sympathies. He & Justice get MUCH MORE attention from me being seperated than they would by all being together. The reason being is that Munkee will try to grab ALL of my attention. Plain & simple, Munkee loves his mommie. If my daughter sits beside me on the sofa, Munkee will try to squeeze between us or he will try to sit in my lap. If that doesn't work he will sit ON my feet. He tries to push between Ollie & I also, I cuddle her one on one as well as the other dogs. She gets just as much "me" time as they do.

Yes, at first it DID bother me that I could not have them in the same room at the same time, I would LOVE for them not to be aggressive towards each other but he fact is, they are & I deal with it accordingly. I'm sorry that you do not understand responsible pit bull ownership. Since you chose to only post a small prtion of the thread & not the whole story, I was consoling a person who is new to fostering & feeling uncertain as to whether or not she was doing right by HER dog. She is VERY picky about who adopts this dog and is considering adopting the dog herself but not totally sure if she is up to the responsibilty of having 2 dogs for life. She is young, single & at the moment living alone. Of course, I'm sure that is foreign to you since it has been soooo long since you have been young.


[/quote]This is not to say that some kind of separation isn't necessary in the case (very common with seriously dog aggressive dogs, since there is rarely another home willing to take them on) where the alternative to separation is death. Just that this is another huge price dogs pay for being dog aggressive.
[quote]

Rehoming one of my dogs is NEVER an option. NEVER. My dogs are not disposable, if life with them is not a bowl of cherries, we have grapes. Death for my dogs is NEVER an option. If your wombats suddenly decide they are not too thrilled with each other, does one of them die??? That's pretty disgusting if you ask me, but that's YOU I guess. I said "Munkee knows he won't die" tongue in cheek. It was humor, oh wait, you don't understand that do you? I forgot that I had to explain humor to you earlier. :roll:

Yeah, my dogs are miserable, their pictures really show that don't they?? Look at those miserable faces. Poor little pit bulls. You are really reaching here Primmy, although FOR WHAT??? No one is quite sure. Keep posting Primmy, you are only proving what others have already said about you. [b]Ignorance can be cured, stupid is forever!! [/b]

Debby

[cheekymunkee]

Also, I do not live alone, my 22 year old daughter & my 55 year old brother live with me. There are plenty of people in my home to cuddle who ever wants to be cuddled. I don't think I could handle all three dogs by myself, but then again, if I were by myself, I wouldn't HAVE 3 dogs.


Debby

[gooeydog]

[quote]Sorry, but you can't convince me that a dog "who did cry quite a bit" when first left alone thinks that his/her life is greatly improved by the situation, much less the one who would "howl like a hound" and "nothing and no one could console him." [/quote]
One of our dogs has (in the past 6 months) taken to screaming like a banshee when I leave the house, and family members have told me of their attempts to shut her up (everything from petting and playing with, to distracting, to trying to correct her), to no avail. Does this mean she is absolutely MISERABLE when I leave, and that I should have no life outside of carting her around, and playing ball with her (which she would gladly do all day, apparently she thinks the hours of exercise and training she gets per day aren't enough). This same dog screams and barks when crated to go to training (and while she's crated at training waiting for her turn to be worked, unless someone she knows is within view), yet is quiet when crated at home (she rarely is though). Since she's obviously unhappy being crated during that time, should we should just skip the whole thing since it makes her so miserable to be crated for 20 minutes waiting for her turn? Many people describe their dogs as whining, barking, or all out screaming when shut in crates while they go to work or leave the house for some other reason? Some even complain about the same behaviors when they leave their dogs home to roam the house. Does this mean that they to are subjecting their dogs to miserable, sub quality lives as well?

[quote]What a wondeful pic![/quote]
Thanks :) Don't be fooled though, I often wonder if those two were sent here by some higher power to torture me :lol:

[Guest Anonymous]

[quote name='K']:puppydogeyes: I want to have my own Pitty :bigcry:[/quote]

[size=6]AHEM!![/size] Sorry, something stuck in my throat.....

[KP]

[quote name='primorse'] Of course, most dogs eventually give up howling when they are miserable when nothing ever changes. [/quote]

Not that you OBVIOUSLY would know from your own personal experience or anything.... :roll: Or anything you've said for that matter. Keep on regurgatating what you've ....read and continue having opinions about it while you're at it. No big deal since we are all aware that this is how it is with you. At least we can see through the cellophane.

Kinda like telling a surgeon how to operate based solely on what book you read...

[cheekymunkee]

A typical Primmy post:

words words words words pit bull words words words pit bull owners words words words words pit bull words words aggression words words pit bull owners....and on & on & on adnauseum.

Debby

[LisaH]

[quote]I just hope you don't mind being treated like a second-class citizen by your own dog when you have guests over!![/quote]

Ain't that the truth plaurent :lol: Tank can be sitting on my lap looking up at me adoringly and if someone comes in, he tosses me aside like an old rag.

Then he'll go sit on [b] their [/b] lap and I cease to exist until they leave. :cry:

Debby-I also have a very dog aggressive Pit Bull that has to be kept separated. Tank-the one in my avatar with my neice Marissa.

Guess Primmy's dogs get their quality time with her while she's pecking away on the computer annoying people :roll:

[pLaurent]

Primmy just loves quotations, so here is my all-time favorite Primmy quotation! :)

[quote]"I personally have let dogs off leash that I shouldn't have let off leash, thrown balls into currents that I decided were too swift just as the dog jumped into the water, not paid sufficient attention which allowed a friend's dog that I was watching get out under my fence, [b]dropped my cat into an x pen of seven week old springer spaniel puppies "to see what he would do" (what WAS I thinking?),[/b] watched as a rescue dog jumped a fence I should have known she could jump and disappeared into a busy downtown area, let kids hug and approach dogs in ways that I shouldn't have, let a kid hold a dog leash on the sidewalk of a busy street when the dog was too strong for the kid and watched as the dog pulled the leash out of the kid's hand and headed for traffic, [b]left a dog in a car in a very busy parking lot for an hour with the door wide open,[/b] left a dog in a place where she could jump against a window and break it (and did), started a dog fight next to the group ring of a major dog show by alternately feeding two dogs until one dog got tired of "sharing," and (last year and I hope we don't have a repeat performance this year) paid insufficient attention which allowed my dog to grab the remains of the tofu "turkey" off my friends' counter after the Thanksgiving feast."

[/quote]

I really hope for the sake of your..umm.."wombat" that you have educated yourself since making all those "unbelievably stupid" goofs.

If you have not, please refrain from giving anyone else advice. :wink:

[cheekymunkee]

[quote name='pLaurent']Primmy just loves quotations, so here is my all-time favorite Primmy quotation! :)

[quote]"I personally have let dogs off leash that I shouldn't have let off leash, thrown balls into currents that I decided were too swift just as the dog jumped into the water, not paid sufficient attention which allowed a friend's dog that I was watching get out under my fence, [b]dropped my cat into an x pen of seven week old springer spaniel puppies "to see what he would do" (what WAS I thinking?),[/b] watched as a rescue dog jumped a fence I should have known she could jump and disappeared into a busy downtown area, let kids hug and approach dogs in ways that I shouldn't have, let a kid hold a dog leash on the sidewalk of a busy street when the dog was too strong for the kid and watched as the dog pulled the leash out of the kid's hand and headed for traffic, [b]left a dog in a car in a very busy parking lot for an hour with the door wide open,[/b] left a dog in a place where she could jump against a window and break it (and did), started a dog fight next to the group ring of a major dog show by alternately feeding two dogs until one dog got tired of "sharing," and (last year and I hope we don't have a repeat performance this year) paid insufficient attention which allowed my dog to grab the remains of the tofu "turkey" off my friends' counter after the Thanksgiving feast."

[/quote]

I really hope for the sake of your..umm.."wombat" that you have educated yourself since making all those "unbelievably stupid" goofs.

If you have not, please refrain from giving anyone else advice. :wink:[/quote]

How [b]very [/b]interesting!! I post pictures of my dogs interacting with other dogs & kittens WITHOUT a disclaimer, I don't shove pit bull facts down people throats, I seperate all dogs when not supervised, I don't let my dogs off leash outside their back yard, I seperate my dog aggressive dogs & [b]I[/b] am a bad owner?!?!?!? :WTF:

Debby

[xavierandrea]

[quote name='cheekymunkee']A typical Primmy post:

words words words words pit bull words words words pit bull owners words words words words pit bull words words aggression words words pit bull owners....and on & on & on adnauseum.

Debby[/quote]

All I have to say is........ That was funny!!!!!! :laugh2_2:

[ellieangel]

Hillside.......how intuitive you are.........fancy being able to spot Rage syndrome like that..........of course they have rage.........it's in their breed........and Conar will one day run away in search of snow.......

[cheekymunkee]

Oh yes, she is serious! I have read that post in the past but forgot about it. Yep, P-diddy can piss & moan all day about ME being an irresponsible owner but those words came from HER key board.

Where are you today Primmy? Nothing to say about what PL posted? Why were you run off of the Wolfdog boards?? What breed of dog do you own??? What is your experience ( besides mistreatement) with dogs???

By the way, I read my co-workers your comments regarding my "miserable dogs", they are all now rolling on the floor laughing their butts off!! They think it quite hilarious that dogs who reside in constant 72 degree temperature, laying on queen size pillow top matteresses, watching t.v. & munching on Wellness are miserable!! I'd post a few of their coments but it might get me in trouble. So according to your drivel, I should succumb to their every whim, lest they be miserable. What a crock!!

Debby

[pLaurent]

Oh, I am quite serious! Primmy posted all those shocking gaffs once, in an attempt to make us - the "Pit Bull Pep Squad", as she sneeringly calls us - confess how irresponsible we are.

Needless to say,we were all shocked at the things she done, and continues to do, to dogs. BTW, her dog that broke the window did so while trying to get at the mailman, just to say "Hi!" of course. :o

[cheekymunkee]

SO, she has DOG aggressive AND a HUMAN aggressive dogs???? Wow, the things ya learn.

Just wondering, is that PROPER Wombat tempernment????

Debby

[ML]

For shame...my two girls are allowed to play together!
[img]http://pic7.picturetrail.com/VOL201/1916942/3969313/51858023.jpg[/img]

[img]http://pic7.picturetrail.com/VOL201/1916942/3969313/51857848.jpg[/img]

They even like to pose together!
[img]http://pic7.picturetrail.com/VOL201/1916942/3702149/51225961.jpg[/img]
[img]http://pic7.picturetrail.com/VOL201/1916942/3702149/46446713.jpg[/img]

My goodness...THEY EVEN SLEEP TOGETHER!
[img]http://pic7.picturetrail.com/VOL201/1916942/3702149/46446770.jpg[/img]

[size=2][/size]Not all of pit bulls have to be seperated...think I'm sending the wrong message to the public?Shame on me!
Edited to add: DISCLAIMER-These adorable, happy pics in no way, shape or form imply that all pitties may play together...tx for the heads up cheeky :evilbat:

[cheekymunkee]

Yay!! ANOTHER irresponsible pit bull owner! :hand: Welcome to the club!!! And YES, you SHOULD have posted a disclaimer! However, I think Primmy should ALWAYS post IMEUO (in my extremely uninformed opinion) before posting her drivel.

Hey, is that Pookie??? I love her.

Debby

[ML]

Yep...it's the Pookster :)

[Guest Anonymous]

I'm curious. What breed of dogs and what experiences do I need to have had in the past to post on which topics here?

I may not qualify! I've left gates open, crate doors open, let a dog get loose, failed to keep a dog from killing a cat and had some dog fights.

Oh well...

Carla

[drjeffrock]

[quote name='xfiled']I'm curious. What breed of dogs and what experiences do I need to have had in the past to post on which topics here?

I may not qualify! I've left gates open, crate doors open, let a dog get loose, failed to keep a dog from killing a cat and had some dog fights.

Oh well...

Carla[/quote]
Well, you can start with a better attempt at sarcasm. :wink:
edit- In case your post wasnt meant to be sarcastic, you will see that we have members with all kinds of breeds and experience. The reason everyone jumped down Prim's throat is that she has made it a habit to annoy people by posting on any thread with the word pibull in it when her experience with pitties is just regurgitating info said by other people. Not only that, but she enjoys focusing on ridiculous things while not appluading the good posts people make re: pits.

[cheekymunkee]

This is NOT my board but I am sure there is no problem with you posting here. This has turned into a "special thread" by a "special (ed) person" who thinks that ALL pit bulls are bad as are their owners. Turns out, she is MUCH more irresposible than ANY of the pit bull owners on this board! Maybe you didn't read all the posts on this thread. Keep reading the others, you'll see what I mean

Debby

[EmmeAndCharley]

Hi, Carla! If you love dogs, then you qualify to post here! Read a bunch of the other threads, too. There are a lot of good people here who share information about their dogs; and support each other, too!!! All breeds; all mixes! Cats and other animals, too.

As far as Primrose goes: I have NO IDEA what motivates her to post negatively about pit bulls all of the time. Her pit bull postings have a "doom & gloom" tone to them. She claims that she doesn't dislike pit bulls, but by reading her postings about them... I have a hard time believing that.