odnarb

Also keep in mind that those numbers for pit bulls are going to be very low. Most shelters just euthanize them, and don't even attempt to adopt most of them out :cry:

Let's look at this from another perspective... People tend to excuse breeders of classic style for breeding without health testing. What if all this was being said about a Kegs on Legs giant blue APBT breeder? People who seek out wannabe mastiffs registered as APBTs are scorned for buying dogs from stock that isn't health tested. I'm sure those Beefcake Blues are lovely hugable dogs, just like those sweet little old school dogs. Either way, you support irresponsible breeding. The only reasons not to health test are to hide problems and being a tightwad. Neither of which are good reasons, and both show that the breeder does not have the breed's best interest in mind.

[quote name='AllAmericanPUP']you know very well that Grant isnt what you usually see in an AKC Am Staff.. people who have watched dog shows on TV or have been to them can tell you that much. the majority of AKC Am Staffs are big and "squishy"(as i like to call em..) and probably couldnt run a mile without passing out...[/quote] I've probably put my hands on a good number more AKC dogs than you have, and the problem most have is 10-20 lbs of FAT. Some are overdone, but I see way more overdone dogs at UKC events than AKC events. Tighten up those AKC fatties, and most would be very athletic dogs :D

[quote name='Hmmmm']Oh, and an AmStaff is not an APBT. Just another way the AKC is ruining another breed.[/quote] Define "ruining." :roll: I'm pretty happy with my AmStaf. I wanted a dog that has generations of health testing and working titles in the pedigree. I looked at a lot of yards of gamebred dogs, and didn't find a single one that met my specifications. So, I ended up with an AmStaf. He's 48 lbs at an athletic weight (not conditioned, but not a fattie). He has his CGC, and is training in Schutzhund after switching from French Ring. He's a tracking fool. He has two legs of his CD, and I hope to get his SchBH later this year. [img]http://odnarb.com/grantnov04.jpg[/img] [img]http://odnarb.com/gjump2.jpg[/img] [img]http://odnarb.com/grantheeltao.jpg[/img] [img]http://odnarb.com/grant040404-03.jpg[/img] So please, tell me my dog is "ruined" in comparison to a bunch of dogs who do nothing but live on a chain, just because he has AKC papers :cunao:

[quote name='DogPaddle']Huh, I wasn't aware of the citronella collars triggered only by barks - how does that work?[/quote] There is a small microphone in the collar that picks up the sounds of the barks.

[quote name='DogPaddle']Another note on both the citronella and shock collars: most work by vibration so you should take them off if your dog is going to be bouncing about and playing or they can go off and give your dog the wrong message.[/quote] Actually, the citronella collars work from the sound of the dog barking. This is one of the reasons I don't like it. Dogs can be corrected if another dog barks near them. Another thing I don't like is the fact that the correction doesn't just go away. A correction should be instantaneous and gone. This is not the case with the citronella collars. They get corrected, and the scent lingers. Dogs don't LIKE the smell, and the correction keeps on giving :( Give me a good ol' static collar any day! I just ordered a new one actually, as the ones I have aren't powerful enough for the Maniac Malinois. Check eBay, you can get brand new in the box collars for cheaper than in the stores and catalogs.

[quote name='courtnek']I've heard that before, that dogs with tails like that dock them to prevent injury. I believe its called "Happy Tail" from being banged into doors and walls (and legs) this is why I disagree with that reasoning. Labs have "happy tails", and can clear a coffee table in a fell swoop. in fact, the breed standard lists the tail as one of the things the dog is tobe judged on. if should be strong, thick, straight and otterlike, and able to clear a table with one sweep. I am NOT making this up. its in the breed standard. rarely do you ever see labs with docked tails, unless it had to be done due to injury. next, my hound also has happy tail. and I have the bruises on my legs to attest to it. when she bangs her tail into a door or wall it will wake you up from a heavy sleep. no kidding. yet you rarely ever see foxhounds with docked tails either.[/quote] Foxhounds and Labs have thicker tails. It makes a difference. Next time Brando wags his tail into hamburger, I'll be sure to post pics. Whenever it happens, it starts a cycle of keeping his tail bandaged for MONTHS until it heals. It's not pretty. My addition to the thread, I once saw a litter of docked GSD/Ridgeback mixes. Very odd, neither breed is normally docked... :o

Grant has been reading this thread over my shoulder, and he says that he wants us to move to New York so he can volunteer his services.

[quote name='jweissg']hey odnarb, glad to hear Brando handled everything like a champ!! If you dont mind me asking, what area are you from? A lot of people have told me that the protection sports take on very different attitudes depending on where the club is located. Thanks for the reply! Joseph[/quote] I'm in the Pacific NW. I've not heard that the attitudes vary by region. They tend to vary more according to club, and like minded people tend to flock together. One of the joys of the internet is that you can communicate with people in other clubs from all over. I've met both macho and realistic people in Ring and in Schutzhund. I've met nothing but macho in PSA.

[quote name='jweissg']She seems very "macho" about her dog. A Malinios, she no doubt has the right to be proud, but she tells stories of how some guys got a little to "forward" with her and the backed down when she gave her dog the command to perk up. Is this typical of protection trainers? I would never give my dog, who definately will have the ability to do some damage, the command to perk up unless I seriously feared that something was going to happen. Then again, I am a 200 pound man with very little concern for my ability to control my situation. That sounded a little sexist, but a 140 pound woman has more to worry about from a guy getting "forward" than I do.[/quote] I find a lot of macho attitudes in protection sports. However, you may be right about her being a woman in that situation. I've been stalked, and It was scary. When I first moved to the city from my little country bumpkin upbringing, I was grabbed in a parking lot by a strange man within a month of my arrival here. I also once had a strange man burst into my apartment, and I was VERY fortunate to have Brando take over the situation and place himself betweem the man and me, chasing him out of the apartment. I've been training in FR/MR, and recently switched over to Schutzhund. I've not been impressed w/ the people &stuff I've seen on PSA. I see NOTHING but macho attitudes, and encouraging risky and stupid behaviors. Junkyard dog crap. Not impressed. Schutzhund fits me, and my beasties, best. Obedience is really important, and tracking is FUN! This is the sport I'd recommend for a Presa, if I were going to pick one. I'm not at all impressed w/ PSA, and that's too big of a dog to be doing the jumps in ring. JMHO :lol:

[quote name='Kat']He sounds like a gorgeous big boy. I'm just curious but I'm assuming you mean a Groenendael? In America is the Belgian shepherd called a Belgian Sheepdog?[/quote] Yes, she means a Groenendael :D In the FCI recognized kennel club of the US, the American Kennel Club, the dogs were seperated into distinct breeds instead of varieties of the Belgian Shepherd Dog. AKC recognizes the Belgian Malinois, Belgian Tervuren, and the Belgian Sheepdog (Groenendael everywhere else). AKC does not recognize the Laekenois at all. The United Kennel Club, the next biggest registry in the US, registers them as varieties of one breed, the Belgian Shepherd Dog. Personally, I prefer it that way :wink:

As far as the stuff for the spay goes, this is the stuff you should ask about... Ask about pre-anesthetic bloodwork. Many folks think this tests to see if they are "allergic" to anesthesia. What it does is test the function of the internal organs and blood cells to be sure the dog's system can handle metabolizing the anesthesia. And just because your dog had bloodwork a couple of years ago, or even six months ago, doesn't mean he/she doesn't need it now. Dogs age a lot faster than we do. Internal organs can degrade fast. If the organs aren't up to snuff, surgery protocol needs to be changed or cancelled. What about IV fluids? Blood pressure drops under anesthesia. That can be fatal. IV fluids help keep the BP up. It also helps keep up body temperature (hypothermia kills, too). They help the organs metabolize the drugs more efficiently. Also, there is an open vein in case emergency drugs are needed. What kind of anesthesia? Preferably, you want sevoflurane (1st) or isoflurane (2nd) gas anesthesia. Injectable only anesthesia isn't as safe. Make sure they intubate the dogs with an endotracheal tube. This will help prevent possible aspiration pneumonia, which can be fatal. Ask if they use any induction drugs, or if they gas the animals down. We use either propofol or valium/ketamine to induce depending on bloodwork and other potential health problems, or sometimes we gas the animals down (depending on the situation). How are the pets monitored during and after surgery? Are they on a pulse oximeter or EKG? Does a technician stay with the pet until they are ready to be safely extubated? Ask if they give any pain relief. Make sure they don't use stainless steel sutures (your dog will never be able to get an MRI if one was needed). Most cheap spay/neuter places use stainless steel sutures. Often times the spays/neuters are able to be done very cheaply because they cut corners & costs. Cheap steel sutures, cheap anesthetics that aren't as safe, no pain relief, etc. Is it worth saving a few bucks if it means your dog's comfort or safety? Something to think about...

Dang, that's a ginormous Belgian :o I'll keep my ears open for anyone out your way looking for a big, black, fluffy snugglebug.

[quote name='Carolk9s']I've had people ask me, in all seriousness, if Jesse is a long haired black lab. Yep, one them rare one with upright ears too![/quote] A guy I know has a black GSD, and he gets the Lab question all the time. If it's black, it must be a Lab :crazyeyes: The Bull Boys are always called Boxers. Even my neighbor, who has an APBT, says, "Hello cute Boxer!" whenever he sees Grant. Brando has been called a Greyhound. Harry is a GSD or GSD mix. He's also been called a Pharoah Hound and a Whippet.

On another board, there have been warning of dogs attempting to lick paper shredders and having their tongues caught in the shredding blades. One dog didn't have sufficient muscle left to swallow afterwards, and didn't make it. Please unplug your paper shredders when not in use.

[quote name='zheelah']We can also take a look at a breed the AKC breeders are ruining, the GSD, in Germany, there is a show of shows for the GSD, only shepherds and no other breeds, called the Bundessieger or Siegershow. To be able to participate there a dog has to be both correctly built and be able to work, and they begin by testing the work, and if the dog does not pass that he can not get into the conformation evaluation. This I think is a very good way of jugding dogs of working breeds.[/quote] Very true, but even in Germany, there is a split between TRUE working bred dogs and show (high) lines. The show lines do have working titles, SCHIII on the males and SCHI on the bitches. These dogs still don't have the fire that the true working dogs do. It's still a MUCH better plan than we have here in the US, but there is even a split, there. I looked at GSDs very seriously, and one of the reasons I got a Malinois was because I wanted a working dog that I could still show. There IS a split between show/working Malinois, but it's not so great that I have no hope. In years to come, the story may be a different one.

[quote name='AllAmericanPUP']a dog being a champion IS a joke..no offense to anyone. but i have seen people champion their dogs in just 2 or 3 shows..so sad..[/quote] I don't see why it is sad if a dog finishes fast, a lot of dogs are VERY nice and deserve it. [quote]showing is all politics.[/quote] There IS an element of that, I won't deny it. But, a good deal of judges do what they are supposed to do, look at the DOG. [quote]I dont even want to see how most show dogs are kept at home..poor dogs.[/quote] Unfortunately, a lot are kept 24/7. I've been to the homes of people who keep dogs like that. It makes me sick :cry: [quote]If I were to buy a dog from a breeder(wich i wont) i would buy from straight up working lines.[/quote] Here is the dog I'm taking into the show ring for the first time next weekend... [img]http://odnarb.com/harryfront.jpg[/img] [img]http://odnarb.com/harrystacksidesm.jpg[/img] He's pretty, I don't think I'll have any problem finishing him. Despite the fact that he was not bred for the show ring :wink: [img]http://odnarb.com/harrybite01.jpg[/img] [img]http://odnarb.com/harrybite02.jpg[/img] [img]http://odnarb.com/hlegsleeve110704.jpg[/img] [quote]AKC and UKC judge on looks and looks alone..i dont care what anyone says. why do you think they care so much about the ears and tails. just looks. ADBA(pittys) on the otherhand judge on how a dog is built for performance. they dont care about the dogs ears, you can have droopy ears, cropped ears, crazy ears, rose ears, any ears. they judge on the dogs body and how the dog is built, and if he has a sound body for working, etc.[/quote] Looks IS judging on structure. It's one and the same, they just have different standards. This is the only 2 time (1999 & 2000) UKC National Grand Champion winner ever. Check out these wonky ears :D [img]http://www.napbta.com/2000ntlgrch.jpg[/img]

[quote name='DogPaddle']I was definately under the impression that the AmStaff folks balked at the suggestion of changing the breed but I personnally only knew 1 decent but not good AmStaff breeder and knew 2 crappy ones distantly. Whenver I have suggested it here there is a flurry of objections. :niewiem: Oh well. [/quote] Well, let me rephrase that, a good deal of AmStaf breeders are trying. There are a few that are still true to the breed, but even more that try to distance themselves from the APBT. I see the dogs betting bigger and slower (in mind AND body :o )

[quote name='DogPaddle']Careful, competent breeding should allow one to breed out aggression without affecting the others. There is no reason why aggression and intelligence would be linked unless you find an intelligent dog that is not being stimulated enough and is becoming aggressive through lack of stimulation and frustration. It may not be done perfectly all the time but morons who breed soley for a big head aren't doing a great job either so might as well give it a try. [/quote] The AmStaf folks have been trying for 70 years, and it hasn't happened yet :wink:

[quote name='DogPaddle'] And while a "dog aggression" is considered OK currently among a large portion of pit enthusiasts people might want to begin to look to the futre. Breeds change (GSD have gone from squarish bodies to slopy back ends and are now moving back again) as society dictates, if people want to keep having these dogs then they may want to consider modifying breeding programs to reduce overall reactivity. As human and canine population density increases dog reactivity may become more and more impracticle.[/quote] Very true. However, I have noticed that when breeders select for non-dog aggressive dogs, drive and intellegence start to drop as well. There is a simpler answer, and that would be for people who can't or don't want to handle breeds that normally display reactivity and various types of aggression to choose breeds more suitable for them. I mean, Great Danes are big. Wouldn't they be be easier to own if they were smaller?

[quote name='Tammy'] [img]http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/images10/American%20Bullnese%20shot3.jpg[/img] The American Bullnese! My god what next! [url]http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/americanbullnese.htm[/url][/quote] :iloveyou: I'd adopt him from a shelter. But never buy him from a breeder :nono: I don't think the photo is touched up at all. This is what I would expect a Pug/Peke to look like.

[quote name='kendalyn']I don't know whether or not this dog should be bred, but the decision shouldn't be made based only on it's level of dog aggression. That would be like not breeding a hound because it was trying to hunt.[/quote] DINGDINGDINGDING! We have a winner! Dog aggression is a normal trait in the Bull & Terrier breeds. If we cut out all that show any dog aggression, the breed would lose some of the best examples, and become very sad indeed.

It's on in about a half hour here. Not sure if I want to watch it, it will probably just ruin my day... :evil:

[quote name='Taurus and Jada'] I have to agree here...I also have a friend that bought one for their dog to teach off leash training. My husband tested on himself and said it hurt quite a bit.... :([/quote] Maybe I'm just ridiculously stoic, but I nailed myself on the highest setting with the 'continuous' button. This was the top of the line Dogtra model that belongs to a friend. While I wouldn't say it was pleasant, I didn't think the pain was unbearable either. I see nothing wrong with a remote collar being used correctly.

OK, I'm looking for a specific martingale, unfortunately I don't know that it exists! I'll post my dream collar here so that if anyone ever sees one they can contact me :D I want a nylon martingale with a quick release buckle. But not plastic, metal like this: [url=http://www.petdiscounters.com/dog/collars/cl_spectra.html]collar with metal release[/url] Anybody seen such a dreamy item?