Guest Anonymous Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 [quote name='pomeranians']Dani, why do you feel the need to educate? LC knows about pit bulls, shes not clueless to the breed and its traits. I don't know her very well, but I've read her posts. You make her out to be someone who saw a pit puppy, thought it was adorable, and now wants one...and I really don't think thats the case.[/quote] I've stayed out of this but I have to butt in now. Dani in my eyes and experience is a VERY experienced owner. When I was muddling my way through first time accidental Pit Bull fostering and since then Dani has been a wealth of information. It would be easier to assume that a person knowns everything there is to know about Pit Bulls but it is safer to assume they little or nothing about the breed. Over the last 4 years Dani and others have been a great help to me as I continue to learn about this breed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowie-the-Pooh Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 I must say I agree with Tammy, it seems to me Dani is only trying to help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ESSlover Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 First of all... :o I think I'll be skiping on this argument :wink: Second... Yay! Goooooooood luck on finding your "perfect" breeder (I dont know if there is a *perfect* breeder, but i'm sure theres something close :wink: ) for your pup! I know you already know all this but, it'll just make me feel better to say it so.. when you do get your pup and if you do get into agility or the like... be careful! Ok. Thats all i have to say 8) ps- I looked at the puppy pics. Awwwwwwwwww!!!! They're so cute! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abker17 Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 I too realize Dani is trying to help, and she's brought up some good very points. LC has met her replies with nothing but educated, calm answers, I don't see her getting rude about it anywhere. She IS listening to you, Dani. If you wanna leave, hey, that's fine, but I think you're blowing things out of porportion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
__crazy_canine__ Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 Abker said it perfectly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogPaddle Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 I really think Dani, being new and having no way of knowing LC's experience level, did nothing but look out for her and the breed. I think some people here reacted in our typical defensive way (probably due to the number of trolls we've had.) I think that this comment: [quote]Being as i have thousands of hours vested into this breed, i do know a bit more than y'all. Amazing...i know[/quote] Was the only less than polite thing she's said and it was likely made out of frustration after trying to help, explain herself and being genuinly concerned and helpful yet coming up against the defensive reaction. I'm not saying anyone was being really rude or deliberately mean. I think we just sort of reacted to each other and miscomunicated. I would think that the pit enthusiasts here would be happy to see a fairly kindred spirit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 [quote name='Dani']Being as i have thousands of hours vested into this breed, i do know a bit more than y'all. Amazing...i know :lol:[/quote] Thats pretty funny. Sounds to me more like you dont have experience with (at least) gamebred APBTs... And I was right... I just took a look at your website. Very nice site and beautiful dogs BUT one question.... What would make you say the above posted quote? You dont even have any APBTs, let alone gamebred? And all the reading you could jam into that little brain wouldnt even come close to the amount of experience I have with [u]gamebred[/u] ABPTs. Oh, and an AmStaff is not an APBT. Just another way the AKC is ruining another breed. Maybe you should take a look around before you start insulting everyones intelligence. I apologize to everyone for getting bitchy. I just dislike people who come on a site and make ignorant assumptions as well as insult others intelligence. (Especially when they have no experience in what they are claiming to have invested "thousands of hours" in). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pumpkin the musher Posted April 1, 2005 Share Posted April 1, 2005 I have to agree with Hmmmm. Being confident about your knowledge should be enough to convince people that you know what your talking about. But when you have to point out how much you know.... The only thing I know about Bull and Pit breeds is what I've read on this forum. I've never even seen a real Pit Bull, but having been involved with dog sports(mushing) for over 27 years, I still feel I can contribute to most dog discussions without sounding too foolish. There will never come I time when I believe I know it all about mushing. I learn something with and about my dogs every day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky Chaos Posted April 1, 2005 Author Share Posted April 1, 2005 I really don't think I was getting defensive was I? Dani I do appreciate the advice, and you may know a lot more then me, but no offence but I have no idea who you are. Obviously other people do, but when you started posting I didn't know that. I'm sure you wouldn't take the advice of someone when you not only don't know them but don't know if they own pit bulls or chihuahua's. I appreciate the people who've said they think I'd make a good APBT owner, I hope I can prove you right. But how am I going to do that without experience? If the worst comes to worst, I have a great dog with an awesome temperament around people, I just have to keep her seperated from other animals. That dosn't sound too bad to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odnarb Posted April 1, 2005 Share Posted April 1, 2005 [quote name='Hmmmm']Oh, and an AmStaff is not an APBT. Just another way the AKC is ruining another breed.[/quote] Define "ruining." :roll: I'm pretty happy with my AmStaf. I wanted a dog that has generations of health testing and working titles in the pedigree. I looked at a lot of yards of gamebred dogs, and didn't find a single one that met my specifications. So, I ended up with an AmStaf. He's 48 lbs at an athletic weight (not conditioned, but not a fattie). He has his CGC, and is training in Schutzhund after switching from French Ring. He's a tracking fool. He has two legs of his CD, and I hope to get his SchBH later this year. [img]http://odnarb.com/grantnov04.jpg[/img] [img]http://odnarb.com/gjump2.jpg[/img] [img]http://odnarb.com/grantheeltao.jpg[/img] [img]http://odnarb.com/grant040404-03.jpg[/img] So please, tell me my dog is "ruined" in comparison to a bunch of dogs who do nothing but live on a chain, just because he has AKC papers :cunao: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogPaddle Posted April 1, 2005 Share Posted April 1, 2005 Oh Odnarb, I am even more annoyed at the Ontario BSL after seeing those pics. What a beauty, nice job on all the work you've done as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogPaddle Posted April 1, 2005 Share Posted April 1, 2005 LC - No I don't think you've been too defensive. I think the overall reaction of the board has been a tad on the defensive side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllAmericanPUP Posted April 1, 2005 Share Posted April 1, 2005 you know very well that Grant isnt what you usually see in an AKC Am Staff.. people who have watched dog shows on TV or have been to them can tell you that much. the majority of AKC Am Staffs are big and "squishy"(as i like to call em..) and probably couldnt run a mile without passing out... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odnarb Posted April 1, 2005 Share Posted April 1, 2005 [quote name='AllAmericanPUP']you know very well that Grant isnt what you usually see in an AKC Am Staff.. people who have watched dog shows on TV or have been to them can tell you that much. the majority of AKC Am Staffs are big and "squishy"(as i like to call em..) and probably couldnt run a mile without passing out...[/quote] I've probably put my hands on a good number more AKC dogs than you have, and the problem most have is 10-20 lbs of FAT. Some are overdone, but I see way more overdone dogs at UKC events than AKC events. Tighten up those AKC fatties, and most would be very athletic dogs :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kendalyn Posted April 1, 2005 Share Posted April 1, 2005 [quote name='AllAmeicanPUP']the majority of AKC Am Staffs are big and "squishy"(as i like to call em..) and probably couldnt run a mile without passing out...[/quote] That's not because they're incapable of it. It's because they're couch potatos! Just because I can't run the New York Marathon right now doesn't mean I would never be able to even if I started training for it. If you have a problem with a dog being out of shape it's not because the dog is an Amstaff and not a APBT (which is really the same thing anyway). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
__crazy_canine__ Posted April 1, 2005 Share Posted April 1, 2005 [quote name='StarGaze']:o I'm sorry, that's not true. AKC Am Staffs tend to be more massive in bone, but in no way is what you claim true. [quote name='AllAmericanPUP']...the majority of AKC Am Staffs are big and "squishy"(as i like to call em..) and probably couldnt run a mile without passing out...[/quote][/quote] I agree with this. I even have a bully breed magazine that claims people are breeding more big-boned AmStaffs. Judges have become so used to these dogs sadly they arent even judging them in the correct way. A lot of champion AKC AmStaffs in no way conform to the standards, which I find a very sad thing. :( I must say Grant is a handsome dog and what AmStaffs should look like. If I do ever go to a breeder for an AmStaff (it wont be a pit bull because basically what Odnarb said) thats what I want the dogs to look and perform like. LC, I have to bring this up because its bugging me.. but are you really okay with the fact that by getting a gamebred pit bull youre supporting dog fighting in a way? I mean Hmmmm said herself that the only way to prove a dog is game is to roll it. :( So, youd be buying from a breeder that fights their dogs, correct? :-? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllAmericanPUP Posted April 1, 2005 Share Posted April 1, 2005 [quote name='StarGaze']:o I'm sorry, that's not true. AKC Am Staffs tend to be more massive in bone, but in no way is what you claim true. "Squishy"...you couldn't place with a "squishy" Chihuahua or Pekingese, let alone an Am Staff. Nobody in their right mind would show a "squishy" dog. And, if you're refering to 'pet' Am Staffs...who cares if some may be squishy....not everyone conditions their dogs, that isn't a flaw with the breed. As for the running, false as well. [quote name='AllAmericanPUP']...the majority of AKC Am Staffs are big and "squishy"(as i like to call em..) and probably couldnt run a mile without passing out...[/quote][/quote] by "squishy" i didnt mean overweight. i just mean bigger, more lip, bigger heads, heavier boned, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky Chaos Posted April 1, 2005 Author Share Posted April 1, 2005 [quote name='AllAmericanPUP'][quote name='StarGaze']:o I'm sorry, that's not true. AKC Am Staffs tend to be more massive in bone, but in no way is what you claim true. "Squishy"...you couldn't place with a "squishy" Chihuahua or Pekingese, let alone an Am Staff. Nobody in their right mind would show a "squishy" dog. And, if you're refering to 'pet' Am Staffs...who cares if some may be squishy....not everyone conditions their dogs, that isn't a flaw with the breed. As for the running, false as well. [quote name='AllAmericanPUP']...the majority of AKC Am Staffs are big and "squishy"(as i like to call em..) and probably couldnt run a mile without passing out...[/quote][/quote] by "squishy" i didnt mean overweight. i just mean bigger, more lip, bigger heads, heavier boned, etc.[/quote] I have to agree. This dog was the 2005 westminster best of breed AmStaff. [img]http://www.westminsterkennelclub.org/2005/photos/breed/RM30768710.jpg[/img] You can't actually tell me the dog above could look like this: ADBA "GR CH I" ADBA ACE" Rebels Red Ace" DNA-p, TT [img]http://www.apbtconformation.com/ADBA-shape-reda.jpg[/img] And Odnarb, Grant is stunning, I'd snatch up a dog like him any day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mutts4Me Posted April 1, 2005 Share Posted April 1, 2005 [quote name='StarGaze']:o I'm sorry, that's not true. AKC Am Staffs tend to be more massive in bone, but in no way is what you claim true. "Squishy"...you couldn't place with a "squishy" Chihuahua or Pekingese, let alone an Am Staff. Nobody in their right mind would show a "squishy" dog. [/quote] Did you see Rufus, the Colored Bull Terrier at Westminster? The fat was rolling from side to side as he trotted around the ring... I think that could be defined as "squishy." [img]http://www.westminsterkennelclub.org/2005/photos/breed/RM30817201.jpg[/img] I thought the AmStaff was rather... erm... out of shape looking, as well. And since Odnarb shows her AKC AmStaff and around plenty of others, I'll trust her that a lot of them have an extra 10-20 pounds of fat attached to their bodies. I'd like to see them all look like Grant, what a handsome guy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky Chaos Posted April 1, 2005 Author Share Posted April 1, 2005 [quote name='StarGaze']So, I could purchase any old Pit and work it like mad and that's a good dog--a [i]better [/i]bred dog?! With all the talk we (dogos) do about what it takes to produce a good dog, I'm in shock. :lol:[/quote] I don't think ANYONE was implying that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky Chaos Posted April 1, 2005 Author Share Posted April 1, 2005 [quote name='StarGaze']The Westminster winner is not "squishy", he is solid...just not excessively conditioned--which any dog could be, including my Dachshund. She's talking about it be a [i]flaw[/i] in the breed, it's [b]not[/b]. Added: Lol, I'm obviously not seeing how an abnormally (meaning not normal) conditioned dog makes the dog [i]better[/i]. There's much more to a well/properly bred dog than muscle, again which[i] any[/i] dog is able to get.[/quote] No one's saying the dog is better, just in much better shape. Are you trying to say a dog that most likely dosn't do much excercise is a normal conditioned dog, but a dog thats WORKS and is in great shape is abnormal? That dog probably couldn't do a full days work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phez718 Posted April 1, 2005 Share Posted April 1, 2005 [quote name='StarGaze']The Westminster winner is not "squishy", he is solid...just not excessively conditioned--which any dog could be, including my Dachshund. She's talking about it be a [i]flaw[/i] in the breed, it's [b]not[/b]. Added: Lol, I'm obviously not seeing how an abnormally (meaning not normal) conditioned dog makes the dog [i]better[/i]. There's much more to a well/properly bred dog than muscle, again which[i] any[/i] dog is able to get.[/quote] And I'm going to jump in right here. Excess fat can hide flaws in a dogs conformation. When a dog is properly conditioned, there is nothing to hide the flaws that he may have. How can someone judge that Bull Terrier's conformation with that much weight on him? Where's the tuck? That Bull Terrier is not solid, it is fat. If he were solid, there would at least be SOME kind of tuck and his excess "weight" would not have undulated as he went around the ring. Excess weight can also affect movement. As for conditioning. A dog does not need to be conditioned to show his conformation better, just to be at a correct weight for his height. I am certainly no expert as I have never owned a show dog, but I have many friends who own ADBA, UKC, and AKC show dogs and not one of their dogs is overweight. Many of my friends who show UKC have been told that their dog is "too thin" simply because it is lean and the judges are not used to seeing a fit dog. Here's a picture of my rescue boy. Most certainly not conditioned, but kept at a healthy weight. Is it so hard for show dogs to maintain a [b]healthy[/b] weight? This picture was taken after a winter of lazing around the house. [img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v170/Pheasant718/casestand.jpg[/img] This post was most certainly not meant to sound rude or snotty, but I was really surpised that someone said that dog was solid. What does that make my dog, emaciated? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phez718 Posted April 1, 2005 Share Posted April 1, 2005 I think that being overweight can cause health problems and is just generally crappy for a dog to have to carry around that much weight. My dog got maybe 5 walks all winter due to the snow and he came out looking like that. He is NOT conditioned nor do I work him, he is just kept nice and lean. His muscles are prominant because there is no excess weight to hide them. An overweight dog can go all day, but it will be more work for their bodies having to carry the extra weight around and they will tire out much easier. I'm by no means saying that AKC show dogs need to be conditioned, but rather that it would be healthier for the dogs and easier for the judges if the dogs were at a healthier weight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phez718 Posted April 1, 2005 Share Posted April 1, 2005 [img]http://www.westminsterkennelclub.org/2005/photos/breed/RM30817201.jpg[/img] I was speaking of the Colored Bull Terrier pictured above in my post. So, in your opinion, is the dog above healthy looking and somewhat conditioned? I find it hard to believe that if a dog does roadwork and works a treadmill that he would look like that. Could be his genetics don't call for easy weight maintenance, but I believe that it is an owner's responsibilty to keep their dog as healthy as possible. IMHO, that dog is not at a healthy weight and I would bet money that a vet would say the same thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky Chaos Posted April 1, 2005 Author Share Posted April 1, 2005 APBT's are [i]naturally[/i] a muscly breed. With not too much conditioning a dog can easily look like that. And I doubt that staff could keep up with a well conditioned APBT. CD dogs are in excellent condition without the extreme muscles. [img]http://www.itsmysite.com/cdpitskennel/images/Tessa_Feb23a1.jpg[/img] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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