Phez718

[quote name='K']Well well...People from PitBullForum on MY board indeed...how[i]nice[/i]! Or maybe you have a board of your own..a rescue board that we can bitch about because it has a chat page where something may or may not be said about someone or something that possibly may or may not have happened....we can ban you for that right?...wait while I run off to include that in our Board rules when and IF you need banning I tell you what I'll do I will put it to a democratic vote :o (yes really!)...but I will be gracious enough to answer your e-mail asking me why you have been banned and I will offer a full explanation...how odd !! [/quote] First of all, thanks K I needed that. (says one of the damned...I mean banned) :lol: Second, do we have to go through this again? I don't even post here much but I've read the matching debates, just do a search! Third, I'm going to go back to what BM said in one of the first few pages. [quote name='BuddysMom']No the breed shouldn't be eradicated...[/quote] That's great! But you know what? This is what's happening as we speak. How many here knew that the governor of California signed SB 861? Here's a little info: SB 861 is the bill in California that will allow breed discrimination! The Governor signed this bill on Friday, October 7, 2005. We have filed a request for a referendum title and summary with the State Attorney General. A referendum is a voter-sponsored REJECTION, pursuant to the California State Constitution, of a law enacted by the legislature. [b]SB 861 does not mention any single breed but allows counties to target any breed they choose for mandatory spay and neuter with NO exceptions for show dogs, service dogs, or dogs with health problems that would have their lives jeopardized by surgery. Show dogs cannot be spayed or neutered, so SB 861 could result in both the elimination of show dogs of certain breeds within various counties or the total extinction, over time, of targeted breeds.[/b] SB 861 also refers to dogs as "dangerous or vicious" and could cause homeowners' insurance companies to cancel coverage for any customer that owns a purebred or mixed dog that looks like it might be one of the targeted breeds. These dogs include Jack Russell Terriers, Lab mixes, Pit Bulls, Rottweilers, American Bulldogs, Bull Terriers, Doberman Pinschers, and many other breeds. Yes, you read correctly. Counties dictate which dogs are dangerous! There is NO set breed! [quote name='BuddysMom']yes I do feel like there are very few constructive things being done to really help pit bulls. Maybe I am wrong, but I don't see much other than complaining about the media and BSL.[/quote] Maybe you are right. But what are you doing to help pit bulls if you don't want the breed eradicated? I know plenty of people helping out to try and overturn SB 861, sadly it STILL may not be enough. Oh, would you like to see how people trying to HELP the DOGS are treated? "Petsmart and the Property Management company made it very hard for us to talk to people. They tucked us out of the way, partially hidden from their customers by big beams and planters, and threatened us with arrest if we ventured outside the 8x8 painted box with our petitions. Even their own security guard admitted the tiny space they wanted to keep us restricted within was unreasonable. Despite the fact that Petsmart's customers were walking in and out with dogs that would be affected by the new law, the company didn't care. We had a very hard time catching the attention of relevant dog owners from our position. Video Clip(will open in Windows Media Player): [url]http://www.chako.org/petsmartvid.WMV[/url] Picture: [url]http://www.chako.org/box.jpg[/url] [quote name='BuddysMom']Writing letters about what great animal companions many pit bulls are is important but it doesn't address the dark side or the terrible abuses that are going on. I do feel like no one is pondering serious solutions to BYB, fighting, etc ... just as long as there is no BSL, the media stays quiet, and we have the right to own OUR pit bulls, then everything is just dandy.[/quote] Yeah, the BYBs and fighting and abuse is horrible. But with the breed in as much trouble as it is now, we as pit bull owners/advocates need to keep our priorities straight. If we don't fight BSL first and foremost then it will gain foothold and spring up everywhere and we won't have to worry about BYBs and fighting because we won't have any pit bulls. You want to know what you can do? Here are some ideas: [url]http://www.purebredpuppy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13781[/url] [url]http://www.purebredpuppy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13765[/url] [url]http://www.purebredpuppy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13796[/url] Why not, instead of saying the pit bull community doesn't do enough, try and get members with ALL kinds of breeds to help out? SB 861 isn't a PIT BULL ban, it's a law that will give counties FREE REIGN to restrict whichever breeds they choose! However, SB 861 in my opinion, is the foremost dangerous thing to my breed right now. If other states pass this, there will be no hope for pit bulls with all the bullshit media coverage, pit bulls and any dog that resembles them will be at the top of the list when those counties start restricting. End of rant...for now. :evilbat:

She drew Casey too! 8) [img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v505/spiralcide/case.jpg[/img]

Oh, I think I might have found the locking mechanism! Take a look: [img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v170/Pheasant718/adbarandcase315x247.jpg[/img] See how she's holding his jaw? Every pit bull must have a removable child attached to them to operate the locking mechanism. :wink:

[quote name='polly'] There is a big difference between a dog bite and the bite of an enormous dog with jaws that lock onto you and won't let go until you are dead or the dog has been killed. We don't keep sharks in little tanks in our houses, we don't keep bears. We don't keep lions, we have house cats. [b]We should only keep dogs that are sensibly sized and not capable of doing the damage pitbulls do.[/b][/quote] Wow...umm are you trying to say that American Pit Bull Terriers are some giant monsters? I certainly hope not. This quote was taken directly some the United Kennel Club's website: [quote]Desirable weight for a mature male in good condition is between 35 and 60 pounds. Desirable weight for a mature female in good condition is between 30 and 50 pounds.[/quote] I've seen much larger and more out of control Labrador Retreivers, we should ban them as well. [img]http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/images12/GreatDanealmost200%20lbsdogAlemao.JPG[/img] Why not ban Great Danes following your logic? Obviously they're capable of doing damage. An American Pit Bull Terrier is just a dog. It does not have any special abilities nor any special physical features. It is the same species as the Shih Tzu, the Basenji, and the Labradors and Golden Retreivers. Most people who say their dogs just snapped don't know how to read dog behavior. They don't recognize the warning signs and many problems dogs have that stem from their handlers. They may play rough with a puppy and when it growls/bites laugh it off because who cares? It's just a puppy, can't do any harm. Yet when this full grown, 10 month old puppy knocks a child down and play bites, oh dear lord it's an attack! Back to your obvious misinformation, are you trying to tell me that my 50lb American Pit Bull Terrier could do more damage to a human than my neighbors 125lb Rottweiler or my aunt's 85lb Lab mix? All of these dogs have rock solid tempermants and would never bite a human, but to say that the smaller of these 3 could do more damage is ridiculous. I'l refrain from posting cute pictures as it's done a lot, but if you want I can show you quite a few pictures of my dog's best friend(a 6 year old girl) and him cuddling.

Hey Steph, that scrawny fawn dog in the third pic looks familiar... :wink: Essentially, the American Pit Bull Terrier was the only such breed, but when the AKC opened up its stud books to the breed it changed the name in order to remove the pit fighting aspect of the breed name. I believe that when the AKC closed its stud books for the American Staffordshire Terrier, the beginning of a different breed had begun. The AKC breeders began taking pieces of the breed standard and working on one trait at a time til they had cookie cutter dogs of the standard. The ADBA on the other hand, continued breeding for performace and were more concerned about gameness and whether the dog was structurally sound enough to complete whatever tasks were asked of it rather than breed standards. If you attend an ADBA show and an AKC show today, you will see what I mean. The AKC shows have the dogs stacked perfectly and standing still while the ADBA dogs are allowed to act up a little in the ring as long as they can hold a stack while it's their turn to be looked at by the judge. In fact, many ADBA judges like to see some attitude in the dogs, not out of control crazyness, just a little livelihood rather than a dead head dog. Just my opinion on the judging, from the shows I've attended. So now, though the dogs may share similar traits and ancestry, I believe that they have been developed into two different breeds. Many of the American Pit Bull Terriers are still used as performance dogs and the American Staffordshire Terriers aren't so much anymore.

Okay, fawn dogs in Texas.... [url]http://pbrc.net/dogpages/south/zoeS11542.html[/url] Zoe [url]http://pbrc.net/dogpages/south/olivia12717.html[/url] Olivia [url]http://pbrc.net/dogpages/south/milly14212.html[/url] Milly [url]http://pbrc.net/dogpages/south/pppbrrswS11562.html[/url] Rusty You said you're willing to travel so I listed all the fawn dogs in Texas that are listed on Pit Bull Rescue Central, of course that doesn't mean you can't just go to the shelter and fall in love.

If you have a hard time with rescues, you'll probably have a hard time finding a reputable breeder who will sell you a puppy. I know that Scot of Matrix won't sell a puppy to anyone under 21 years of age, and he also discriminates based on home ownership and career, he has his pup's future on mind when he chooses a home. I know Kim of Roki also discriminates based on age, occupation, and living situation. I believe you commented on my dog, he's a rescue dog. I adopted him from a rescue I volunteer with. Maybe if you do some volunteer work with a rescue and show them that you're dedicated and responsible, they'll be less likely to base their decision on just what your application says. Good luck with finding a pup.

[quote name='__crazy_canine__']I do think that some APBT are conditioned to the extreme. If those dogs were human and working out like that to be so thin and muscular theyd probably think you were anorexic or soemthing. :o Rebels Red Ace was a little too thin for my liking. :-? Tessa however was conditioned but not excessively. Her body is in perfect condition IMO.[/quote] Here are more pictures of (UKC)CH (ABDA)GRCH UWP ACE Victorino Rebel's Red Ace DNA-P (I think his titles are in the right order) [img]http://www.victorinoskennel.com/ACE/RED_ACE_UKC.JPG[/img] (UKC condition) [img]http://www.victorinoskennel.com/ACE/ACE-ADBA.jpg[/img] (ADBA condition) In the top picture he is shown at a UKC show, as you can see he is not nearly as conditioned as ADBA type shows call for. In the second picture he is shown at an ADBA show, but you can see he does not appear quite as "thin" as he does in the first picture showing him straining on the leash. Dogs are not kept in ADBA condition all the time. Dogs are usually conditioned according to what showing they will be doing and are at a regular pet weight in between show/working seasons. Photo's taken from Ace's page at [url]http://www.victorinoskennel.com/ACE/ACE1.HTML[/url]

[quote name='merickson1131']By the way, Pheasant718 I really like the way your dog looks. I prefer a longer legged dog. I dont really like the stumpy APBT.[/quote] Thanks, I think he's rather handsome too :D :wink:

[img]http://www.westminsterkennelclub.org/2005/photos/breed/RM30817201.jpg[/img] I was speaking of the Colored Bull Terrier pictured above in my post. So, in your opinion, is the dog above healthy looking and somewhat conditioned? I find it hard to believe that if a dog does roadwork and works a treadmill that he would look like that. Could be his genetics don't call for easy weight maintenance, but I believe that it is an owner's responsibilty to keep their dog as healthy as possible. IMHO, that dog is not at a healthy weight and I would bet money that a vet would say the same thing.

I think that being overweight can cause health problems and is just generally crappy for a dog to have to carry around that much weight. My dog got maybe 5 walks all winter due to the snow and he came out looking like that. He is NOT conditioned nor do I work him, he is just kept nice and lean. His muscles are prominant because there is no excess weight to hide them. An overweight dog can go all day, but it will be more work for their bodies having to carry the extra weight around and they will tire out much easier. I'm by no means saying that AKC show dogs need to be conditioned, but rather that it would be healthier for the dogs and easier for the judges if the dogs were at a healthier weight.

[quote name='StarGaze']The Westminster winner is not "squishy", he is solid...just not excessively conditioned--which any dog could be, including my Dachshund. She's talking about it be a [i]flaw[/i] in the breed, it's [b]not[/b]. Added: Lol, I'm obviously not seeing how an abnormally (meaning not normal) conditioned dog makes the dog [i]better[/i]. There's much more to a well/properly bred dog than muscle, again which[i] any[/i] dog is able to get.[/quote] And I'm going to jump in right here. Excess fat can hide flaws in a dogs conformation. When a dog is properly conditioned, there is nothing to hide the flaws that he may have. How can someone judge that Bull Terrier's conformation with that much weight on him? Where's the tuck? That Bull Terrier is not solid, it is fat. If he were solid, there would at least be SOME kind of tuck and his excess "weight" would not have undulated as he went around the ring. Excess weight can also affect movement. As for conditioning. A dog does not need to be conditioned to show his conformation better, just to be at a correct weight for his height. I am certainly no expert as I have never owned a show dog, but I have many friends who own ADBA, UKC, and AKC show dogs and not one of their dogs is overweight. Many of my friends who show UKC have been told that their dog is "too thin" simply because it is lean and the judges are not used to seeing a fit dog. Here's a picture of my rescue boy. Most certainly not conditioned, but kept at a healthy weight. Is it so hard for show dogs to maintain a [b]healthy[/b] weight? This picture was taken after a winter of lazing around the house. [img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v170/Pheasant718/casestand.jpg[/img] This post was most certainly not meant to sound rude or snotty, but I was really surpised that someone said that dog was solid. What does that make my dog, emaciated?

Sure, I'll trade 50 lbs of pure muscle for 170 lbs of dog. Have fun!! 8)

We'll see if Steph can hold onto a gamebred dog when she comes to visit me. I'll have her walk Case in a high dog/prey traffic area, it'll give my hands a break at least and it would be fun to watch. :lol: :wink:

[quote name='Lucky Chaos']What I'm looking for is much more of an "old time" dog. They do look finer boned then even most ADBA dogs but they're very leggy bitches. I absolutely LOVE Cold Steel pits but they're all the way in Florida. If you look at the majority of their dogs too they're small, no more then 50 lbs. [url]http://www.coldsteelpits.com/[/url][/quote] Don't give up on Cold Steel yet, Steph. Remember you still might be able to go down to Florida next summer and check em out. :wink: