What do you think of this breeder?

[kendalyn]

There are some definate advantages to a rescue in some respects. It's sort of a "what you see is what you get" situation.

Too bad speutered dogs can't be shown. They should really change that rule I think. :-?

[Phez718]

We'll see if Steph can hold onto a gamebred dog when she comes to visit me. I'll have her walk Case in a high dog/prey traffic area, it'll give my hands a break at least and it would be fun to watch. :lol: :wink:

[Lucky Chaos]

I'll take Case, and you take my three. Sound good? 170 lbs of dogs. Should be easy to hold onto. Oh, and just for the fun of it I'll yell, "Squirrel!" and point. That always gets em running.

[Phez718]

Sure, I'll trade 50 lbs of pure muscle for 170 lbs of dog. Have fun!! 8)

[AllAmericanPUP]

[quote name='__crazy_canine__']Thank you Mei Mei! (that post was also directed at Kendalyn)
[size=2]...youll probably regret defending me after this post though...[/size]

AAP, I thought we were on good terms again but now you've ruined it like you did before. Why must you always insist on starting things?! You are rude, and I'm saying it flat out. I dont care if I'm being as rude as you by saying that, I think its something that needs to be said! LC [b]ASKED[/b] for our opinions and when I say something you jump all over me?! :roll:

I have so much more to say but I think I should just leave it before I hijack LC's thread. Sorry Steph, and good luck on getting a pup! :D While I really wisdh you would consider adoption, its completely understandable to want a purebred and benefit from that through showing and competitive sports. :)[/quote]

I dont appreciate people who put a breeder down when they know nothing about that breeder.
its' one thing to say you dont like a breeder for such and such reason, but it's another to insult her dogs.

i'm still on good terms, but if you feel that I am oh so mean and rude that's fine, dont hurt me none, and if you have more to say about me please feel free to PM it to me, it's not good to hold it all in.

you act like i called you names or some crap, i never once said anything mean to YOU.

I dont have enemys unless someone insults me, my family or my dogs wich nobody has so i dont see why there is such hostility. i'm not being hostile towards you guyz, you just take my posts the wrong way, you have no idea how I am feeling when I make a post, you guyz just automatically take it that I am being rude and hateful, wich I wasnt, just standing up for Cold Steel pits.

i never once insulted you or anybody else, just said i loved it when people bad mouthed a breeder when they know nothing about them.

sorry for hijacking your thread chaos :oops: :P

[DogPaddle]

[quote]Too bad speutered dogs can't be shown. They should really change that rule I think[/quote]


That would be nice. It would make a difference in the adoption feild to some extent. I like the word speutered btw saves typing "spayed or neutered".

[DogPaddle]

Its almost too bad you would be moving out of the province. I would like to know how out of province breeders feel about selling their doggies to people in a prospective BSL province.
Good luck with your future pup, its nice to see you doing lots of research well in advance. Walking Case sounds like challenging prep work. :D

[Lucky Chaos]

The only problem is I couldn't take the risk of my pup being killed. Otherwise I probably would.

[__crazy_canine__]

[quote name='AllAmericanPUP']i'm not being hostile towards you guyz, you just take my posts the wrong way, you have no idea how I am feeling when I make a post, you guyz just automatically take it that I am being rude and hateful, wich I wasnt, just standing up for Cold Steel pits.
[/quote]

Ummm, maybe you should go back and read your post. You may not find it hostile but I do and I can tell others do because theyve commented on it! When you use " :evil: " and " :roll: " along with lots of exclamation and multiple question marks in your post, it can come off as being even more rude, so use them carefully.

I never put the breeder down in any way so theres no reason to defend. I never insulted her dogs... I just said what I thought about them. If you take my thoughts of the dogs looking like lab mixes offending then thats not my problem. Its just what I think of [i]some[/i] of them and if you don't agree, fine, but don't take it as an insult just because I'm expressing how I feel. And I do get the "tough dog" vibe from their site, IMO. Im telling you straight out that its my opinion but heres what you say...
[quote]They dont give off that "tough reputation" [/quote]
Thats [i]your opinion.[/i]

And about the Iams issue... I have to say that a breeder that doesnt "know about better food" should be ashamed, because as a dog owner you owe it to your dogs to give them the best and look into what youre giving your dog. Kendalyn's reply to that was perfect. I would reply to the other things youve said but I think this debate has already taken up enough space in this topic. So, Im keeping my mouth shut unless we start another topic about this.



Sorry again LC. :lol:
Oh BTW, (and sorry if you already mentioned this before but..) do you think youll be financially stable enough to have a dog and pay for the cost of going to competitions & shows, paying for food, equipment, accessories, etc. when you move out and get your own place? Having the dog is going to cost a lot of money alone but then theres also car payments, food for yourself, rent, gas money, heat & electric bills, etc. Ive thought about this over and over again ...and it bums me out because I probably wont be able to have a dog for the next 20 years. :cry:

[DogPaddle]

LC - Good point. What province are you thinking of? I have heard that Manitoba, Nova Scotia and New Brunswick have considered BSL in the past but I'm not sure how acurate that is.

[quote]Having the dog is going to cost a lot of money . . . I probably wont be able to have a dog for the next 20 years.[/quote]

CC - Having enough money for a dog was one of my motivations through college when things got tough. :lol:

[Lucky Chaos]

Thats why I'm looking for a job and starting to save up now. Even if I have to take the bus and survive on Kraft Dinner and Raman noodles, the dog'll come first. If I feel at the time I can't afford a dog, I'll wait a couple more years. But I still think its best to start researching as early as possible.

I'm actually hoping to get out of Canada altogether. British Columbia I think is also thinking of BSL. As well as Alberta. I have a feeling it's going to spread unfortunately, so I'd like to get as far away as possible.

[__crazy_canine__]

[quote name='Lucky Chaos']survive on Kraft Dinner and Raman noodles[/quote]

Welcome to my world! :lol:

Anyway... I agree, researching early is a great thing to do!
Oh and maybe you can move down here and we can share the cost of an apartment and a dog! :wink: :lol: While it is meant as a joke, wouldnt that be awesome?!

DP, I can't even start to think about how hard it will be to go through college without a dog! It will motivate me, like you said, but sheesh... thats so looooong to wait!

[gooeydog]

Congrats on the future pup :)

I will second Dani's concerns that a gamebred type dog may be too much dog for you given your experience with the breed and what you want to do with the dog. Should the dog become dog aggressive (even only slightly so), there is a big difference between simply having or handling a dog aggressive dog and wanting to do dog sports with that dog, and that is where experience will come into play. It's not so much a matter of simply being able to hold onto a dog aggro dog, it's more a matter of being able/willing recognize what situations are going to be appropriate for the dog and the physical/mental ability to manage the dog should you find that a situation you thought the dog could handle is in fact not one they can. That only comes with experience, and your bound to make mistakes along the way which could prove to be more serious with a more "high power" dog. You may have no problems with it, but make sure you're as prepared as you can be before jumping in to it.

I know you said you wanted a smaller, more traditional dog, but the grandsire of these resulting pups was 65 lbs, which makes it possible as well that any dog you get may be closer to his size than to their parents. Not a huge concern for you, I'm sure, but there are other breeders breeding "small" APBTs (and staffs which actually look like they can work) that fall under the 45-50 lb mark, which your pup may end up being anyway (and many do health testing as well, if that's something you want).

One final thought, you might try joining the bull breed agility group on yahoogroups, I'm sure a few people there have experience with these things (breeder dogs, dog aggression, etc), and can give you more to look into.

AAP, people only have what they see on a website to base their opinions on, and for many people, what they see there is not impressive. You have degraded numerous other breeders based on what you see on websites, so you look hypocritical jumping on others for doing the same as you have in the past. They have as much right to voice their opinions as you do, and have.

[AllAmericanPUP]

:ices_blah: :klacz:

[Guest Anonymous]

I am surprised people with knowledge of APBTs are telling LC to avoid a gamebred dog and pretty much get a cur??!! WTF?? Curs are much more dangerous than a gamebred dog.
I know APBTs take a huge amount of responsibility. I believe LC knows this as well. And I think she could handle it.
LC, if you would like any help on finding a great gamedog, let me know.
Oh, and by the way, my best brood is in heat as I type.... If I breed her and she takes.... :wink:

edited to add: Full grown they should be about 34-40lbs.

[Guest Anonymous]

You think a dog that won't KILL other dogs is a cur? Wow, you need to get a flippin' clue. Ask anyone who's handled a highly dog aggressive dog in a dog sports situation and they will tell how incredibly hard it can be.

If your dog blows off their command, the result can be a DEAD dog. i'm sorry, but i cannot support the idea of a newbie to the breed getting a GAMEBRED pit bull! That's a LOT to live with, a HUGE step to start out with, and not everyone is ready. If it doesn't work out, she could spend the rest of her life playing musical rooms with her OWN dogs. That's never fun, and something that not everyone takes into consideration when that cute lil puppy shows up, or they see a stunning dog on a website. What if something BAD happens? A broken crate? A chewed through door. Will she still be so gung-ho about getting a "gamebred" dog if she ends up with a dog too hot to ever do dog sports, and when she is stuck shuffling dogs from room to room for 15 years?

As a responsible pit bull owner i make it my job to bring these things up to potential owners. Not everyone thinks of these things when they have dreams of beating border collies with their fast lil "pit".

i do wish her the best, but jeeze......a gamebred dog for a newbie owner? i know some kennels who won't even sell a FROO FROO show dog to someone who has never owned a pit bull before.

And for the record, "Cold Steel" isn't what *i* would call a quality producer. They couldn't GIVE me a dog. But eh...that's just me.

[Guest Anonymous]

[quote]You think a dog that won't KILL other dogs is a cur?Wow, you need to get a flippin' clue. Ask anyone who's handled a highly dog aggressive dog in a dog sports situation and they will tell how incredibly hard it can be.[/quote]
I never said anything about a dog not wanting to kill another dog being a cur!??
I have handled dogs that have high drive, very high. And I do know what can potentially happen.
I, for one, am all for someone who has done research and knows they need to take extra measures with these dogs getting involved with them. I think gamedogs are the only way to go. How is she supposed to get experience with the breed? By buying some cur? Start out with a cur and work your way up? Please. Thats just plain ignorant.
Just in case you didnt know, its the ones that arent gamebred that are harder to control. They are the dogs that are unpredictable.

Hafta add something again...
CS may not be the best APBT breeders in the world but they have great bloodlines coming down from some great dogs.

[Guest Anonymous]

Anyone wondering about the difficulty handling a gamebred dog as opposed to a show bred AmStaff or Pit bull can take a look at AKC's working statistics and UKC's working statistics, the DVG titled dogs, and the NARA statistics and see just how many gambred dogs vs non gamebred dogs have been titled in the various venues.

While many gamebred dogs have been trained by long experienced handlers in the breed, most of the titled dogs are AmStaffs and UKC pit bulls.

[kendalyn]

Dani,

You haven't been a member long and don't know LC very well. Technically she is a "newbie" to Pit Bulls (although she does have a pit mix) but not all newbies are created equal. She's not somone just "dreaming to beat Border Collies with her fast lil pit".

LC knows the challenges that come with Pit Bull ownership. Even now she is doing more research and learning with an open mind. I understand educating new owners is important but you can't just treat everybody who is new to the breed in the same way.

[quote name='Dani']If it doesn't work out, she could spend the rest of her life playing musical rooms with her OWN dogs. That's never fun, and something that not everyone takes into consideration when that cute lil puppy shows up, or they see a stunning dog on a website.[/quote]
LC won't have any dogs after she moves out. The puppy would be the only one. And if you can't tell the difference between the questions she's asking and the questions someone who is star struck by cute puppies would ask, than you aren't reading her posts.

[abker17]

Thank you Kendalyn. I totally agree.

[DogPaddle]

Dani is just pointing out the challenges involved in competing in dog sports with a "game" dog. It's a very valid point and it was responsible of her to point it out. Granted LC was already aware of this but Dani had no way of knowing that.

[Guest Anonymous]

Jeeze, just asking questions and i get attacked by long time posters. :agrue:

Let me reiterate, gamebred pit bulls aren't good sports prospects for anyone other than the most [i]experienced pit bull trainers[/i].

That's all i am saying, and that's all i will say further on the subject.

i wasn't saying she wouldn't be a good pit bull owner, i sure she will be. But simply having a gamebred dog and training/trialing that dog for sports are two very different things. Many people get gamedogs for sports and many wash out. Take a look at the top sports/working bullies and you'll find froo froo dogs behind them. If she is serious about having a sports dog she needs to be honest with herself and the fact that a gamebred dog may never be more than a wonderful pet.

Being as i have thousands of hours vested into this breed, i do know a bit more than y'all. Amazing...i know :lol:

[Lucky Chaos]

Dani, I do appreciate the fact that your trying to help me out. I have lots of time to decide whether I can truely handle a a dog like this or not.

[quote name='Dani']If it doesn't work out, she could spend the rest of her life playing musical rooms with her OWN dogs.[/quote]
I do this now with Chaos and my border collie Riley. They're always supervised, and Riley is either crated or in the basement when they cannot be.


[quote]That's never fun, and something that not everyone takes into consideration when that cute lil puppy shows up, or they see a stunning dog on a website. [/quote]
Yes, I have been looking at websites. Because I'm looking for a dog that I like, then I can look into the breeder. I'm not going to see a pretty dog and go out and get one because the dog or puppy is cute. Again you're assuming.

[quote]What if something BAD happens? A broken crate? A chewed through door. Will she still be so gung-ho about getting a "gamebred" dog if she ends up with a dog too hot to ever do dog sports, and when she is stuck shuffling dogs from room to room for 15 years? [/quote]
The point of getting my dog wasn't only to do sports. The dog would be first and foremost a companion, and probably my only one until she's no longer with me.

[quote]As a responsible pit bull owner i make it my job to bring these things up to potential owners. Not everyone thinks of these things when they have dreams of beating border collies with their fast lil "pit". [/quote]
If all I wanted to do was beat border collies, I'd get another breed thats suited for agility. I don't have "dreams of beating border collies", like I stated I want this dog as a COMPANION. Even if it means keeping her seperate from other dogs for life and not competing.

I chose this breed because of their wonderful temperaments, and the fact that they'll do anything and not give up. If I had chosen another breed, most likely it would be a working bred GSD or Malinois and I'd be getting into Schutzhund or French Ring.

Thanks Kendalyn and Hmmm too.

[Guest Anonymous]

Yikes, no one is reading and comprehending the words i'm posting.

i'm not attacking, i'm trying to educate. Apparently, that's not wanted.

Screw it, i'm done. Don't listen to me, just be defensive towards everything i've posted. i don't know anything, i've only trained a pit bull in obedience, agility and weight pull.

Best wishes on your dog.

[pomeranians]

Dani, why do you feel the need to educate? LC knows about pit bulls, shes not clueless to the breed and its traits. I don't know her very well, but I've read her posts. You make her out to be someone who saw a pit puppy, thought it was adorable, and now wants one...and I really don't think thats the case.