Guest Anonymous Posted March 29, 2005 Share Posted March 29, 2005 Are you wanting a gamebred dog or showbred dog? APBTs arent supposed to be short and blocky like most people think. They should be tall and slender with long lean muscles. The bigger, meaning taller, the dog is at its weight, the better. One in condition will always look thin to people not used to seeing dogs in condition (especially the APBT). Nothing is more beautiful than an APBT in top condition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pumpkin the musher Posted March 29, 2005 Share Posted March 29, 2005 I agree- I think their dogs look great- allot of people think racing Alaskans look thin too, but when you consider that two of the dogs used in creating the modern Alaskan were Greyhounds and Salukis, that "belly-tuck" that some people see as thinness is a natural posture. Also, the mushers who over-feed will know it within the first ten miles of a race... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
__crazy_canine__ Posted March 29, 2005 Share Posted March 29, 2005 I like CDpits but not Cold Steel... I like how the people of cd dont breed often because of overpopulation and the way their dogs look and perform (based on their titles). Cold Steel, however... eh, I don't like how many dogs they have. I dont like the looks of some of their dogs. I don't like how their dogs are on chains. I don't like how some of them look like lab crosses (which I know looks arent as important as performance in pits but still...). I don't like that they come off as giving that "tough dog" reputation, even though they do have a page dedicated to making them look sweet. I would definitely go for CD. They obviously devote themselves to only a few dogs and make sure that they are the best that they can possibly be while Cold Steel has tons of dogs that I'm sure aren't all cared for as much as family pets. I'm kind of lost here... why do you like Cold Steel? Maybe Im the only one, but I don't like a thing about them (mostly the kennel but also some of the dogs). ((This is kind of random, lol, but does anyone else find it a little odd that the parents of Fox and Tessa are both dark brindle but they are white and red? I know its possible to get that outcome but ... ???)) And [b]no offence[/b] but anyone who says that these dogs are way too thin doesnt know pits at all. Theyre conditioned... this is how they are supposed to look. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted March 29, 2005 Share Posted March 29, 2005 Cold Steel has some VERY nice bloodlines.... Although you can find close to the same from several other breeders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky Chaos Posted March 29, 2005 Author Share Posted March 29, 2005 CC, I don't like how their dogs are chained, I would prefer them to all be housepets but its not possible. Even CD has kennels. I don't like all their dogs, but they are good breeders and some of their dogs are stunning, to me personally. [quote name='Hmmmm']Are you wanting a gamebred dog or showbred dog? [/quote] What I'd really like is a dog that can do both. One that dosn't look to bad in the show ring, but loves to work and that same day can go out and pull a thousand pounds. I used to love Border Collies, and one of my favorite traits was they'd do anything you asked, work all day and still have some left over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kendalyn Posted March 29, 2005 Share Posted March 29, 2005 I'm also not a big fan of ColdSteel. I don't think their dogs look like lab crosses though... Their dogs look very nice but I don't like some of their breeding practices. - They breed untitled dogs. 6 of their males and 9 of their females are untitled. Why is this? - They state very specifically: "Be advised that any females purchased directly from us are eligible for a breeding back to our yard at a discount. We are always happy to make breedings back to our blood" - They state on their website that health testing is not necessary and that this breed doesn't suffer from hip or elbow problems. That is just plain untrue. Bad hips and elbows are not uncommon in APBTs. Check the OFA stats on them. - They feed Iams and Eukaneuba. They have got to know better and instead choose not to feed quality food. Those 4 reasons alone are enough to label them unethical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky Chaos Posted March 29, 2005 Author Share Posted March 29, 2005 [quote name='kendalyn']I'm also not a big fan of ColdSteel. I don't think their dogs look like lab crosses though... Their dogs look very nice but I don't like some of their breeding practices. - They breed untitled dogs. 6 of their males and 9 of their females are untitled. Why is this? - They state very specifically: "Be advised that any females purchased directly from us are eligible for a breeding back to our yard at a discount. We are always happy to make breedings back to our blood" - They state on their website that health testing is not necessary and that this breed doesn't suffer from hip or elbow problems. That is just plain untrue. Bad hips and elbows are not uncommon in APBTs. Check the OFA stats on them. - They feed Iams and Eukaneuba. They have got to know better and instead choose not to feed quality food. Those 4 reasons alone are enough to label them unethical.[/quote] -A lot of large kennels, most smaller than CS have untitled dogs -I don't agree with this, but I suppose they want to keep their bloodline going. -I also don't agree to this. But I haven't found a single correct (in my eyes) pit bull breeder that health tests. I'd love to find them, but I haven't. -It would be nice if they were fed a higher quality food. CD feeds a raw diet which I'm quite pleased with. So I do agree with you Kendalyn. No breeder is perfect, but I'm still trying to choose the best I can find. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kendalyn Posted March 29, 2005 Share Posted March 29, 2005 [quote name='Lucky Chaos']No breeder is perfect, but I'm still trying to choose the best I can find.[/quote] Excellent! It's all you can do and all anybody can expect. Have you considered an Amstaff or a Staffy Bull? It seems like those breeds tend to have better breeders overall. I think Staffys are soooo cute! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky Chaos Posted March 29, 2005 Author Share Posted March 29, 2005 The only AmStaffs I'm really fond of are Hartagold dogs. They're still a bit big for me. Same with Matrix APBT's but they both have awesome looking dogs. Just big and a little thick. :wink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllAmericanPUP Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 i love people who have something to say about a kennel but yet know nothing about that kennel.. Their dogs dont look like lab crosses AT ALL..i'm not sure where the heck you get that? there dogs are some of THE finest true bulldogs i have EVER seen in this day and age. Why are their dogs on chains? Gee i dunno..you try having 20 + housedogs..and chains are better than kennels..they give the dog more space. some of their dogs arent titled probably because they havent finished yet. but they compete alot with their dogs They have ONE LITTER a year..how is that bad???? You find me ONE..just ONE true APBT breeder of ADBA style dogs that health tests??? Maybe they dont know about better food, ever thought of that one?? Alot of people are oblivous to the fact that there are better foods out there or maybe they have tried better foods but they havent worked for their dogs? and the reason why they have so many dogs is because they keep the majority of the dogs that they breed, getting a pup from these guyz is one of the hardest things to do. they are a true breeder who breeds for themselves and not for the general public to make a quick buck. They dont give off that "tough reputation" but whatever floats your boat :roll: unethical breeder? give me a break! :evil: people these days dont appreciate a true breeder of APBT's that are the only thing keeping this breed TRUE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abker17 Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 AAP, I don't think there was cause to be rude to Kendalyn. We're not all pittie experts here, and she brought up her own valid points. Nice reply LC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CincoandDahlilasgirl Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 well I'm staying out of this little argument but I think the pittie breeder looks good to me but then again I'm not a pittie expert. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kendalyn Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 [quote name='AllAmerican PUP']some of their dogs arent titled probably because they havent finished yet. but they compete alot with their dogs [/quote] I'm sure they do, but I don't think a dog should be bred until it is finished. Most of those dogs that weren't finished were being bred. Isn't part of the reason for competing, to see if it is worthy of bettering the breed? [quote name='AllAmericanPUP']You find me ONE..just ONE true APBT breeder of ADBA style dogs that health tests??? [/quote] Just because nobody else does it, doesn't mean it shouldn't be done. It's sad that it is so hard to find a breeder of APBTs that does health testing. It would be nice if ColdSteel could be one of the first. Then they could have great looking dogs that are sound as well. I don't think we should dumb down our standards just because there happen to be some particularly bad breeders of pit bulls. [quote name='AllAmericanPUP']Maybe they dont know about better food, ever thought of that one??[/quote] Anybody who is breeding dogs should at least know something about what to feed them. Research and good information are available all over the place. If they don't know good food from bad, it makes me wonder what else they don't know about dogs and how to keep them healthy. [quote name='AllAmericanPUP']Their dogs dont look like lab crosses AT ALL..i'm not sure where the heck you get that? there dogs are some of THE finest true bulldogs i have EVER seen in this day and age.[/quote] I agree with you here. They are very nice looking dogs. They don't look like labs to me either. I don't believe ColdSteel is one of the worst breeders of pit bulls out there, but they're certainly not setting any standards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky Chaos Posted March 30, 2005 Author Share Posted March 30, 2005 And what are the chances of me ever seeing that pup again? :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 Lucky Chaos, have you had a pit bull before? And are you hoping to do dogsports with your dog? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky Chaos Posted March 30, 2005 Author Share Posted March 30, 2005 Not a pure bred no, but Chaos is a pit mix we believe. And yes I am, may I ask why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 Well, the reason i ask is that you are looking at some extreme dogs. Very dog aggressive, full of drive. The type of dog a long experienced pit bull owner would consider. And the reason i ask about dogsports, are you going to do agility? Or obedience? i wouldn't suggest obedience, as i, just personally, could NEVER trust a gamebred dog in a 5 minute out of sight downstay. i have heard that gamebred dogs can be great at sports, but it's a HUGE commitment. As they can be very dog aggressive. Have you trained into the higher levels of the sports you are interested in? i don't mean to be a downer, i just think you need to really sit and think about the type of dog you will be bringing home. They are wonderful, human friendly, smart, cuddly, etc.....but also full of prey drive, high activity and highly dog aggressive. The type of dog that's a real huge handful and can be extremely difficult to control in an offleash situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky Chaos Posted March 30, 2005 Author Share Posted March 30, 2005 [quote name='Dani']Well, the reason i ask is that you are looking at some extreme dogs. Very dog aggressive, full of drive. The type of dog a long experienced pit bull owner would consider. And the reason i ask about dogsports, are you going to do agility? Or obedience? i wouldn't suggest obedience, as i, just personally, could NEVER trust a gamebred dog in a 5 minute out of sight downstay. i have heard that gamebred dogs can be great at sports, but it's a HUGE commitment. As they can be very dog aggressive. Have you trained into the higher levels of the sports you are interested in? i don't mean to be a downer, i just think you need to really sit and think about the type of dog you will be bringing home. They are wonderful, human friendly, smart, cuddly, etc.....but also full of prey drive, high activity and highly dog aggressive. The type of dog that's a real huge handful and can be extremely difficult to control in an offleash situation.[/quote] My first dog was a working bred GSD. This dog had drive up the wall. He was also dog aggressive, though obviously nothing like an APBT would be. Since then the only dogs I've actually wanted to work with were working drivey dogs. Mu current three dogs are rescues, and none really have the proper drive to get into the sports I'd like. Except perhaps my mix and agility. Two of the dogs from CD pits arn't dog aggressive. Of course the pup always could be, and I knew that when I started getting into the breed. Part of an email from CD: The father of the 2 girls was VERY dog aggressive. No problems with humans but a true APBT at heart. Hawke will watch her space, doesn't go looking for trouble but will fire on other dogs. The girls don't show much if any dog aggresion at all. I can be in a CH class at the shows, the last one was 24 dogs most firing off and my girls just look at them, curious but not afraid. They get along with each other, all 3 are loose together unless we are at work then 2 are crated and one is loose.Best way to describe my girls is "giddy" we call Tessa "Wagatha Wigglebottom" she is always in perpetual motion LOL! After owing 2 dog aggressive males, I prefer to have them a bit easier to handle. Grizz was 65 pounds and a handful and a half. The girls are all 38-40 pounds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 Yes, i know Cindy, and her dogs. Not personally, in the sense that i've put my hands on them....but i know them. i also know ADBA shows, as i have many friends who attend them whenever possible. Not "dog aggressive" to me or Cindy, isn't "not dog aggressive" to the general public. i just wanted to make sure you know what you are getting into. i do obedience with my AKC/UKC dog. It's nerve wracking enough when i'm standing on the other end of the ring and a dog gives mine a dirty look. My dog is what most pit bull owners would call "not dog aggressive". i still know the damage she could do in a few seconds if another dog broke it's stay and accosted her. She's broke her heel in UKC (the "ring" was made of light rope that was strung up about waist level) and took off out of the ring because there were some sideline dogs who were playing. i called her back, and i know she would have just played with them....but if she were hot, that would have been a nightmare. Knowing that Foxfire's father is highly dog aggressive, it could easily present itself in her puppies. Don't get me wrong, i really like Cindy's dogs! And some of my favorite dogs are gamebred dogs. But because i enjoy training in dogsports, i wouldn't get one. i have a hard enough time with my "cold" dog, and i probably couldn't bring myself to even attempt a 5 minute out of site down/stay in public with a hot dog!! Just some things to consider..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky Chaos Posted March 30, 2005 Author Share Posted March 30, 2005 So, what would you suggest? I'm seriously asking, not trying to be smart. A rescue dog could be dog aggressive, which is what I originally intended. An AmStaff could be very dog aggressive as well. (I believe some of Hartagold's dogs are dog aggressive.) Granted, nothing like a gambred but its entirely possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 Well, gamebred dogs are going to be hot. Greater potential to kill other dogs kinda hot. If you had, perhaps....5-10-15 years in the breed, i would have no problem congratulating you on your new puppy, as you would know 100% what you are getting into. My good friend has bred and trained 2 UKC superdogs. Yet she currently has a dog who she could never trust offleash. i would suggest a rescue, as you know their level of dog aggression and know their temperament towards training. i got my girl when she was 10 months old, and although FAR from a "rescue", i pretty much knew how she was going to turn out at that age. Or maybe, yes, a froo froo show dog. Lora's dogs aren't that hot. i know one personally, i see him on a weekly basis. He's almost got his CD by now! But, if you just want a performance dog, i would definitely go rescue. My next AKC/UKC dog is going to be from a breeder, ONLY because i want that particular bloodline and it is very scarce. And even *i* have considered a rescue dog now and again! If you were just wanting a weight pull dog, no worries. As they are never offleash or in a voice control situation. But if you are thinking agility or obedience, that's a huge commitment, and something to think over long and hard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abker17 Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 Seeing as I know LC quite well, I don't have any doubts about her ability to handle a gamebred dog. She has another 2 years or so to wait, and I know she's doing her research. Maybe if she could find a way to work with game bred pitties first hand, and get some of that hands on experience, she could really come to a decision she is totally confident in. But either way, I know she's gonna make a great pittie owner, and I also understand your concerns Dani. :wink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky Chaos Posted March 30, 2005 Author Share Posted March 30, 2005 Obviously I wouldn't trust an aggressive dog off leash doing agility. Thats one reason why I haven't really done it with my mix, the chance she'd take off after another dog is too great. Rescues can do weight pull, but unfortunately can't be shown which is something I'd really like to do as well. I'm not against "froo froo" show dogs per se, I just don't like the look of most UKC dogs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
__crazy_canine__ Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 Thank you Mei Mei! (that post was also directed at Kendalyn) [size=2]...youll probably regret defending me after this post though...[/size] AAP, I thought we were on good terms again but now you've ruined it like you did before. Why must you always insist on starting things?! You are rude, and I'm saying it flat out. I dont care if I'm being as rude as you by saying that, I think its something that needs to be said! LC [b]ASKED[/b] for our opinions and when I say something you jump all over me?! :roll: I have so much more to say but I think I should just leave it before I hijack LC's thread. Sorry Steph, and good luck on getting a pup! :D While I really wisdh you would consider adoption, its completely understandable to want a purebred and benefit from that through showing and competitive sports. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky Chaos Posted March 30, 2005 Author Share Posted March 30, 2005 Even if your opinion does differ from mine, thanks for adding it CC. I understand where you're coming from. Once I have my dream pup I'll most likely go back to adoption, theres nothing like saving a life for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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