CincoandDahlilasgirl Posted March 28, 2005 Share Posted March 28, 2005 Well I was going to post but AllAmericanPup said it all for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lsailor Posted March 28, 2005 Share Posted March 28, 2005 pzoo9 - I am so glad you posted again to update us on the situation! The replies you received initially were pretty upsetting and it sounds like you're doing the right thing for your family by having the dog checked out and re-homing him if necessary. I'm sure the reason you belong to this board is because you love your dog but your baby takes priority. It's good to know that you are willing to give your dog the benefit of the doubt, while still keeping your family safe. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puttin510 Posted March 28, 2005 Share Posted March 28, 2005 This dog does not need to be put down. He either feels bad, or doing what alot of dogs do when they are in THEIR sleeping spot. They feel it is theirs and don't want to be disturbed. Its like invading their respected space. If you have an 11 month old that is perhaps more able to understand you will have an easier time. I don't let small children around my poodle. I know for a fact she would bite and bite hard. Lucky for me, my kids are big. Talk to your vet and possibly a behaviorist to rule out pain and any other issues. Worst case cinario, would be to get another home, but no euthanasia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kendalyn Posted March 28, 2005 Share Posted March 28, 2005 The bottom line is, this dog was physically aggressive with a child [i]without a verbal warning[/i]. I do believe that the "bite" was a sort of warning since he didn't break the skin, but it really bothers me that the dog didn't growl at all. That behavior is totally sketchmo in my opinion. [quote name='Crystal']The dog doesn't understand! Help him understand, teach him just like you would your child![/quote] The problem here is that while this dog is learning not to bite, the child could be dead or severely injured! There's really not room for error. Also, this advice seems very odd coming from someone who rehomed a dog because she looked at you funny... :-? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted March 28, 2005 Share Posted March 28, 2005 So many of you think the dog should be given a chance to "redeem" itself. Is scarring the child, if not worse, for the rest of his life worth it?? No dog, other than one protecting you or your family from harm, should EVER put their mouth on someone. Especially family, and children. I dont think a dog should be given the chance to bite again. People shouldnt have to worry about their dog biting their child, and once it happens, its always on your mind. Pain is still no excuse for a dog to bite a person. [size=2]Had to edit cause of a typo![/size] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kittygirl109 Posted March 28, 2005 Share Posted March 28, 2005 [quote name='Crystal'] Once I was giving McKenzie a bath. I was like 8 months pregnant at the time. She always loved a bath and never acted funny, except for this time. It was about 3 weeks after all the pups were gone. She had her head down and looked very unhappy. I was scared to death. I loved that dog with all my heart, she was my baby. I was never scared of her once, until then. I was so scared by the way she was acting I actually had my husband come in and stand beside me until I was done with her bath. She was very freaked out that day and I have no idea why. My husband was even worried. She never did anything to me, but you could tell she was freaked out. I never gave her another bath after that. Then we rehomed her. [/quote] I'm sorry, but that sounds outragous to me! She could have been upset about something, or sick. Maybe in pain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky Chaos Posted March 29, 2005 Share Posted March 29, 2005 [quote name='kittygirl109'][quote name='Crystal'] Once I was giving McKenzie a bath. I was like 8 months pregnant at the time. She always loved a bath and never acted funny, except for this time. It was about 3 weeks after all the pups were gone. She had her head down and looked very unhappy. I was scared to death. I loved that dog with all my heart, she was my baby. I was never scared of her once, until then. I was so scared by the way she was acting I actually had my husband come in and stand beside me until I was done with her bath. She was very freaked out that day and I have no idea why. My husband was even worried. She never did anything to me, but you could tell she was freaked out. I never gave her another bath after that. Then we rehomed her. [/quote] I'm sorry, but that sounds outragous to me! She could have been upset about something, or sick. Maybe in pain.[/quote] I agree, it really dosn't seem like she did anything wrong. I would be worried about my dog, not her being aggressive, if they acted funny during something they usually enjoy. My parents had a c@t that mourned after her kittens left, she wasn't right for quite a while after. But I couldn't see giving her up for something like that. Also wasn't she a mixed breed? :-? As to the original post, you could never 100% trust the dog again. Also a dog snapping without warning whether it broke the skin or not dosn't seem normal to me. Even when Chaos was in pain yesterday she didn't growl or snap, she just licked the vets face when he was looking at it. And the vet is a total stranger since it was an emergency vet, not a member of the pack. The dog had a warning and plenty of time to move. It might be hard re-homing the dog though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllAmericanPUP Posted March 29, 2005 Share Posted March 29, 2005 [quote]Also whoever said "How hard is it to keep the baby and the dog apart?" apparently has never had a toddler or a live dog. Not helpful at all just Trolls keep out.[/quote] Your right.i dont have a 4 yr old nephew and a lab who hates kids... i keep her seperated from him and it's not very hard at all. yea i'm a troll....troll that has been here over a year..posts pics all the time and has quite a few friends here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogPaddle Posted March 29, 2005 Share Posted March 29, 2005 Come now, lets be nice. This is a difficult problem and a variety of opinions have been expressed. Many people, including those in either extreme of the debate have made some valid points. I don't think anyone has been trolling here but lets try to keep our comments civil and constructive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigman Posted March 29, 2005 Share Posted March 29, 2005 I don't care how much pain a dog is in, if it bites for any reason it must go. Imagine giving the dog a chance to redeem itself and ending up with a mauled baby. It's not worth the risk. Rehome the dog or you are asking for trouble. You can't keep an eye on a child 100 per cent of the time and it would only take 5 minutes for a dog to kill a small child. My dog gets injured hunting pigs and he has never so much as growled at a child even when the child is poking and prodding him. Pigs can leave some good slashes on a dog but he will let a vet stitch him up or let a child lay all over him and he won't stop wagging his tail. I firmly believe that NO dog should ever be left alone with a kid. People think their dog would never bite a child but can you really take the chance?? Dogs are not furry people, we need to stop atributing our human emotions, logic and feelings to them. They are carnivorous hunting animals, every single one of them and should be treated as such. I love my dogs and keep them healthy and happy but they are dogs, not humans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cairn6 Posted March 29, 2005 Share Posted March 29, 2005 [quote name='AllAmericanPUP'][quote]Also whoever said "How hard is it to keep the baby and the dog apart?" apparently has never had a toddler or a live dog. Not helpful at all just Trolls keep out.[/quote] Your right.i dont have a 4 yr old nephew and a lab who hates kids... i keep her seperated from him and it's not very hard at all. yea i'm a troll....troll that has been here over a year..posts pics all the time and has quite a few friends here[/quote] Does the child live with you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllAmericanPUP Posted March 29, 2005 Share Posted March 29, 2005 [quote name='Cairn6'][quote name='AllAmericanPUP'][quote]Also whoever said "How hard is it to keep the baby and the dog apart?" apparently has never had a toddler or a live dog. Not helpful at all just Trolls keep out.[/quote] Your right.i dont have a 4 yr old nephew and a lab who hates kids... i keep her seperated from him and it's not very hard at all. yea i'm a troll....troll that has been here over a year..posts pics all the time and has quite a few friends here[/quote] Does the child live with you?[/quote] no but he is here on a daily basis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllAmericanPUP Posted March 29, 2005 Share Posted March 29, 2005 ok so if you rehome the dog whos to say it wont bite the new owner? or get lose and bite someone?? If the OP cant keep the dog then they need to take the dog to the vet, cradle the dog in their arms, and have the dog humanely euthanized. there is no sense in rehoming an agressive dog, your just putting other people and kids at risk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crystal Posted March 29, 2005 Share Posted March 29, 2005 Sorry, guess I should have said....McKenzie's little freaked out episode was not the only reason she was rehomed. We were moving and couldn't really find a place to take her. We could have placed her with family, but they are not as loving as we are. We also thought with a new born baby and her weird acting it was probably best she go somwhere without kids. This was not the only reason she was rehomed. I was just stating I knew the situation this person was in. I understand what a tough decision she has to make. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllAmericanPUP Posted March 29, 2005 Share Posted March 29, 2005 [quote name='Mei-Mei'][quote]ok so if you rehome the dog whos to say it wont bite the new owner? or get lose and bite someone?? [/quote] You're assuming the person I re-homed Devi with would not know about her aggressive nature. If I had to go that route, I would re-home her with a behaviorist or someone who was an expert in aggressive dogs that felt he/she could work with Devi. I wouldn't just give her to some other family and not let them know about her problems. Yeesh. :-?[/quote] i didnt mean you. i was talking in general of anybody who has an agressive dog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pyrless Posted March 29, 2005 Share Posted March 29, 2005 You can't rehome an aggressive dog. It is irresponsible. You either have to find a way to fix the problem, manage the problem for the rest of the dog's life, or put the dog down. Remember this is a socially interactive [i]predatory[/i] animal. As hard as this is, our love for a dog, no matter how damaged the dog is and how much we want to save him, can NOT take precedence over the danger or liability posed to those that are most vulnerable to that very predatory instinct (mainly kids and the elderly). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crystal Posted March 29, 2005 Share Posted March 29, 2005 If the dog is only aggressive to children or other animals and the new owners know of this I don't see the problem. If the animal is found to only have aggresion towards children or other animals, then why not place him in a home with no kids or other animals. Besides we are talking on incident here. I do understand that you must protect the babies well being. The dog could hurt the child and you would never forgive yourself, but I feel there are other things that could be tried. Now if the dog was thought to be totally unreliable and may freak out on any one then you have no choice. This dog needs a behavioral evaluation. See what happens. If this dog has been around this baby for the passed 11 months and nothing has happened yet, why is he aggressive now? Maybe you missed something. Maybe something happened you didn't see. I just don't feel right about this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cairn6 Posted March 29, 2005 Share Posted March 29, 2005 [quote name='Mei-Mei'][quote]ok so if you rehome the dog whos to say it wont bite the new owner? or get lose and bite someone?? [/quote] You're assuming the person I re-homed Devi with would not know about her aggressive nature. If I had to go that route, I would re-home her with a behaviorist or someone who was an expert in aggressive dogs that felt he/she could work with Devi. I wouldn't just give her to some other family and not let them know about her problems. Yeesh. :-?[/quote] How do you protect yourself though? What if the new person decides to sue you because they got bit. They could claim you either didn't tell them all the problems or downplayed them. I don't know I am asking because I have never done this so I don't know what the legalities in this situation are. I just know on those animal shows they are always saying they won't rehome because of fear of law suits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllAmericanPUP Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 [quote name='Crystal']If the dog is only aggressive to children or other animals and the new owners know of this I don't see the problem. If the animal is found to only have aggresion towards children or other animals, then why not place him in a home with no kids or other animals. Besides we are talking on incident here. I do understand that you must protect the babies well being. The dog could hurt the child and you would never forgive yourself, but I feel there are other things that could be tried. Now if the dog was thought to be totally unreliable and may freak out on any one then you have no choice. This dog needs a behavioral evaluation. See what happens. If this dog has been around this baby for the passed 11 months and nothing has happened yet, why is he aggressive now? Maybe you missed something. Maybe something happened you didn't see. I just don't feel right about this.[/quote] sure there might not be children in that home but there are children EVERYWHERE. every street, every town, and the majority of homes. what happens if that dog accidentally gets loose and mauls a child?? rehoming a known agressive dog is just asking for a lawsuit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtnek Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 OK I have said this before and been flamed for it. But I;m going to say it again, take it however you will. I suggested a behaviorist because he/she will basically tell you the same thing I am going to tell you. this is free. your dog has a DOMINANCE problem. he considers the baby beneath him in the pack structure. he is treating your child like a wolf cub that overstepped his bounds. that tells me there is a serious lack of pack order in your house. the baby needs to be seen as higher than your dog in the pack order. I would immediately institute NILIF, the dog gets nothing unless he has earned it, even by just a sit. no food, no walks, NOTHING. do not let this dog enter doors before you, even if you have to slam a door in its face. do not let this dog sleep on ANY furniture. YOU eat first, while the dog watches, even if that means you suck down a few crackers. he NEVER eats before you, or the baby. the BABY comes first,always. feed him first, make the dog lay down (even if that means you tether him to a chair) and make a big fuss over the baby. feed him in front of the dog, while the dog gets nothing. good behavior is rewarded, AFTER THE BABY IS FINSIHED EATING. the dog is not allowed access to the baby at all, keep him behind a babygate while he watches you playing with the baby. this is a DOG. his internal instincts are pack rules. anyone lower than him in the pack can be punished. YOU have to elevate the baby. I know we like to think of them as furry people, but its simply NOT SO. we dont have the teeth,strength, or instincts they do. You CAN break this dof of this behavior, but you cant back down. dog has to see himself as below the baby in the pack. Me,l I would not ever have them together with the baby on the floor til the baby is big enough to stand up for himself. even with all of the above. I raised my son with a 110 lb dog. he knew that when Kyle was on the floor, he was to go lay in his "spot" and NOT GET UP until **I** said he could, which was when Kyle was either in bed or in his playpen. they did not share the floor until he was 4 years old. they did not share a room until he was 7. until I felt Kyle (with my training) was old enough to order him to lay down, and he would. I am alpha in my household. I have never been bitten, and dont expect I ever will be. My son has never been bitten because of that. I'm sorry to sound so harsh, but a dog needs to learn its place. its up to the people invloved to teach that place... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mouseatthebusstop Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 I don't think this dog is aggressive - the kindest thing would be rehome in a house without babies or young chilren. I feel you don't want to sort the problem out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crystal Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 If every dog that ever showed any signs of possible aggression was put down dogs wouldn't make it very long. There is going to be some time in ever dogs life that they are going to do something to piss us off. They nip, that is what dogs do. Puppies bite at anything and everything. I mean my goodness. I'm sorry, but that baby should never had been in the floor with the dog in the room. Sure it is cute to see them crawling around together, but you said the dog had surgery. I mean come on, did you not think of the possibility of the baby hurting the dogs leg. If the dog even thought the baby may hurt him he is likely to get scared and react. Sounds like what happened to me. I am not trying to be mean here but there was some irresposibility going on here. Now to not want to have to deal with it. I'm pissed off. Atleast atempt to retrain the dog. Courtnek was right and I totally agree with her last post. What kind of dog owner just puts there dog down without ever trying something. I am starting to think dogs would be better off on the own in the wild than being around people. It would be a extreme last resort for me to put down an animal in a situation like this. There are ways and dogs can usually be retrained. I will say there are situations in which there is no hope and the dog posses a real risk. Then you have no choice. I do not agree with giving up after 1 incident under these circumstances. The dog had surgery, and is proabably in pain. There was a small unpredictable child crawling near him and he got scared. I'm glad the baby was not hurt. I don't know what to tell you, I'm worried you will not be able to teach this dog where he sits in the pack, as you can not forgive him. I am also worried that you will not rehome him properly. Frankly, this situation sucks and some of these replies do also. I hate this situation for you, but you got a dog and you must be responsible while keeping the dogs best interest at hand. I think putting him down without researching you other options is not in his best interest!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pyrless Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 I agree with Courtnek as well. Mei Mei, you make an excellent point, and that is a best-case scenario which I had not thought of. Let's agree to support pzoo9 in whatever decision she makes for her family, ok? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xavierandrea Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 Ummmm, I tried to avoid this topic because of all the emotions involved but for the older members here remember my situation with my girls? I did exactly what Courtneck and Mei-Mei did and are doing with their dogs ( that is working with them and not giving up on them !!) and now my girls are getting along. Just look at my siggie. :wink: For a moment I was either going to PTS 1 of them or rehome her due to aggression and fights and Xavier being bitten a few times but I was determined to keep all my dogs.Yes I was flamed and yelled at by a few members. But others members didn't give up on me. You know who you are. THANK YOU!! I love you guys!!!!With help and support from you DOGO members that stood by me and members from Reality Bites Dog Forum I worked hard with my gang and the aggression and dominance issues are now under control. We need to support her and not fight amonst ourselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crystal Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 So, dogs can be taught how to act. Gald it worked out for you. Not every situation comes out so well. I think we should support whatever decision is made here. After all we are not in this situation and we don't have a hard decision to make. This topic is quite heated isn't it. I knew I should have stayed out of it. I really hope things can be worked out, but regardless I will support whatever you decide. I will agree that whatever you decide must be what had to be done, since I don't know your dog or your family. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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