delh1 Posted November 23, 2004 Share Posted November 23, 2004 they are a very beautiful breed with an excellant temperment and unfortunatly i can't have one :( i have six dogs at the moment and no room for more. i love my dogs but now i want another and cant have it. oh well i guess ill have to wait. but if any one has any info about this breed i'd love to hear it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
between the wrinkles Posted November 23, 2004 Share Posted November 23, 2004 i personally do not see the shiloh shepherd as a breed. i think a german shepherd is much better and more logical. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mutts4Me Posted November 23, 2004 Share Posted November 23, 2004 I met a Shiloh Shepherd this weekend, and that was one very BIG dog (named Sampson :) )! There are a few breeds of dogs I would like to own at some point in my life, but I'm just going to have to wait for when the time is right for each one. Maybe someday you'll find the perfect opportunity for a Shiloh Shepherd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoladybug Posted November 23, 2004 Share Posted November 23, 2004 How are they different from a GSD? I just looked up pictures of them, and they're identical (in my uninformed opinion). Just curious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malamum Posted November 23, 2004 Share Posted November 23, 2004 [quote name='Yoladybug']How are they different from a GSD? I just looked up pictures of them, and they're identical (in my uninformed opinion). Just curious.[/quote] I think they were originally GSD/Malamute crosses. Don't quote me on that but I'm sure I remember reading it somewhere. We had a member a while back who got a Shiloh puppy, she was an adorable dog. I think the member's name was SpiritsMom or something like that..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seijun Posted November 23, 2004 Share Posted November 23, 2004 [quote] personally do not see the shiloh shepherd as a breed.[/quote] Why not? The reproduce predictably in both temperament and looks. That makes them a pure breed. [quote]How are they different from a GSD? I just looked up pictures of them, and they're identical (in my uninformed opinion). [/quote] They are bigger, heavier boned, and also more intelligent. They do not come in a short hair like the GSD. The Shiloh is an offshoot of the GSD, aimed at trying to recreate what the GSD used to be (mostly in temperament). It is a fairly new breed. More info can be found here: [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shiloh_Shepherd_dog[/url] [url]http://www.shilohshepherds.info/origins.htm[/url] ~Seij Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoladybug Posted November 23, 2004 Share Posted November 23, 2004 Interesting...thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mutts4Me Posted November 23, 2004 Share Posted November 23, 2004 They are much, much bigger than any German Shepherd I've ever seen, that's for sure :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarahstaff Posted November 23, 2004 Share Posted November 23, 2004 21.7% of Shiloh Shepherds have HD, by OFA statistics. Compare that to 19.1% of German Shepherds. Shiloh Shepherds do appear to have less elbow dysplasia, but since there are only 52 evaluated, that could be wrong. Shiloh Shepherds are at #6 on the most affected by congenital cardiac disease, with 1.3% affected. (GSDs are at 0 affected) You could pick a healthier breed to obsess over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seijun Posted November 23, 2004 Share Posted November 23, 2004 The American Staffordshire Terrier did worse than the Shiloh in both HD and cardiac disease testing, but that doesn't make it a "bad" breed to get and I know a lot of people who have them, even on this board. The Shiloh actually does relatively well in comparison to many other large breeds. ~Seij Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarahstaff Posted November 23, 2004 Share Posted November 23, 2004 Yes, the Amstaff does worse. But the GSD does better. When supposedly creating a new breed to "improve" on an existing breed, why have these health issues been allowed to creep in? The testing has been available during the time the breed has been being created. If the people who created the breed really wanted to improve on what was available, they could have been carefully testing, culling, and practically eliminated health concerns from the breed. Long term breeds that have health issues are unfortunate, and something to work on. A new breed with this level of health issues seems to me to be a failed experiment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seijun Posted November 23, 2004 Share Posted November 23, 2004 The Shiloh, although considered a pure breed, is also considered by many people to be a breed that is still developing in that issues such as health problems are still being worked on. The Shiloh is a very new breed, any breed that is [i]that[/i] new WILL continue to develope over time and improve even if it has already been officially labeled a pure breed. I cannot say how the health issues were able to get in other than that this is a large breed, and large breeds are prone to these health issues. The breeders really beleive in what they are doing and there is no doubt in my mind that they will, over time, improve on their new breed's health. ~Seij Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imported_Kat Posted November 23, 2004 Share Posted November 23, 2004 Personally I just see them being more physically typed to the original GSD before intervention for showing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
between the wrinkles Posted November 23, 2004 Share Posted November 23, 2004 i think there are better ways to improve on a breed. without creating new ones who have just as bad of health problems in the long run. i dont particularly care for "shilohs" or "kings". jmo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kendalyn Posted November 23, 2004 Share Posted November 23, 2004 Shiloh Shepherds are a distinct breed. Just as Seijun said, they reproduce predictably and are different in looks and temperment from the GSD. They are wonderful dogs! I would much rather own a Shiloh than a GSD. I know somebody who has one and I know she wouldn't trade it for anything else. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
between the wrinkles Posted November 23, 2004 Share Posted November 23, 2004 sorry, to me that is not what makes a breed. they dont seem any different to me than a cokerpoo or an ori pei. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seijun Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 Ok, then what [i]does[/i] make a breed for you? ~Seij Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowie-the-Pooh Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 [quote]cokerpoo or an ori pei.[/quote] JMO, but these breeds were bred for the quick buck. They are designer breeds that weren't ment to improve anything except the size of the "breeder"s wallet. The Shiloh on the other hand was meant to improve the GSD, although creating a whole new breed is a bit extreme, IMO. Still, Shiloh Shepherds are amazing dogs (I did research a few years back) and I think they would better match some people than the GSD would. Spiritsmom has a beautiful Shiloh who is darling! :wink: I remember Rumble, poor thing. Can't believe he still hasn't been found. :( Anyway, this person asked for info on the Shiloh so lets help! When I'm researching, the first place I usually visit is a rescue network. Believe me, a LOT of info. can be found at rescue websites. Then, I go to a [b]good, responsible[/b] breeders website and look up the dogs, they're looks, genetic diseases, what they have to be screened for...etc. Then some info sites, webrings, or a forum. Hope it helps! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mutts4Me Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 [quote name='between the wrinkles']sorry, to me that is not what makes a breed. they dont seem any different to me than a cokerpoo or an ori pei.[/quote] Yeah, but a cock-a-poo could be a first generation cocker/poodle mix, or it could be from a long line of cock-a-poos - or anything in between. An Ori Pei is probably the immediate result of a Pug/Shar Pei cross, since they haven't been around as long as the Cockapoos (my friend in elementary school had a cockapoo). There are some people that breed Cockapoos to Cockapoos and therefore get a consistent result, but anyone could breed a Cocker and a Poodle and call it a "Cockapoo." That's my biggest problem with the poo/doodle mixes (and various other designer breeds), personally. There's no consistency required to call it by the money-getting name. You can't just cross two dogs and call it a Shiloh Shepherd. There are specific breeding programs for Shilohs, which were created in an attempt not to get rich, but instead to improve upon an already existing breed. It happens. The bull & terriers so many people on this board own or love (pit bull, staffy, amstaff, bull terrier, boston) are the results of such cross breedings, and they've become their own breed (no one can cross a terrier and a bulldog today and get a Pit Bull or Bull Terrier, etc). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pyrless Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 if these breeders are really trying to get back to the old-style GSD for working purposes that's one thing, it's like breeding Pyrs for true LGD work. however if they are just trying to make a bigger dog for the sake of making a bigger dog, then IMHO that is not right. I am sure there are breeders on both sides of this fence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kendalyn Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 [quote name='Mutts4Me']but anyone could breed a Cocker and a Poodle and call it a "Cockapoo." That's my biggest problem with the poo/doodle mixes (and various other designer breeds), personally. There's no consistency required to call it by the money-getting name. You can't just cross two dogs and call it a Shiloh Shepherd.[/quote] Well said! :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgar Posted November 26, 2004 Share Posted November 26, 2004 [quote name='Seijun'][quote] personally do not see the shiloh shepherd as a breed.[/quote] Why not? The reproduce predictably in both temperament and looks. That makes them a pure breed. [quote]How are they different from a GSD? I just looked up pictures of them, and they're identical (in my uninformed opinion). [/quote] [/quote] More intelligent than a REAL Shepherd? Lol ridiculous, I'm not sure where you get your info from. Shilohs and King not more intelligent than Shepherds. Perhaps the reason they aren't used in Police/Army work. Not sure what the point of bastardizing the GSD was when they came up with these breeds... Almost seems like a designer breed that has gone legit. I love how the "creators" of this breed say they are trying to create an "old world" type shepherd. Utterly ridiculous the Shiloh or King sheps are way bigger than any "old world" shepherd and completely lack the drives that exist in "old world shepherd." If you want "old world" GSD have a look at some of the good Czech Shepherds that are being bred. Stable nerves, temperment, intelligence, solid bone structure and much less HD than any North Am show dogs and these designer breeds. Improving a breed doesn't mean you go and create a new one that shares no qualities with the original except for bigger looks. Sorry for being passionate about GSDs. I happen to own one and know what they are supposed to be like and where they need improvement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imported_Kat Posted November 26, 2004 Share Posted November 26, 2004 define "intelligence" before trying to attempt to differentiate between the 2 breeds... its a misused word when it comes to dogs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuddysMom Posted November 26, 2004 Share Posted November 26, 2004 Y'all are being so snipey just because someone said they loved a certain kind of dog. Not that I can talk ... :oops: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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