CKMILK Posted July 20, 2004 Share Posted July 20, 2004 Intact males are more likely to exhibit dominance aggression than neutered males or females. It is more likely that this is controlled by androgen since females who show aggression before puberty and who are spayed become more aggressive. Dominance aggression and protective aggression are the number 1 and number 2 causes of treatment by behaviorists. from what i get they are saying fixed females are more aggressive?? i thought that helped?? well let me know !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogPaddle Posted July 20, 2004 Share Posted July 20, 2004 I haven't found this. In fact I have found that two unfixed females together are far more likely to harass each other than two fixed females. With people I myself haven't noticed a difference. Anyone else? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarahmyjoy Posted July 20, 2004 Share Posted July 20, 2004 well from my experince mine havent been more aggressive when spayed. I usually have female dogs, dont really know why i guess i tend to favor them :oops: but i have them spayed and have had no prblem. I have had at least 6 girls in the last 12 years. Three in the last 5yrs were girls they are the ones in my siggy :lol: they have all gotten on just fine... :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
voodoopitbull Posted July 20, 2004 Share Posted July 20, 2004 Most of my rescues are females and I generally do not have as many problems as I have with male-on-male aggression. I'm not a vet or a scientist so I dunno. I know that in the terrier world it's a purely matriarchal society. Or from what I've seen and heard of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtnek Posted July 20, 2004 Share Posted July 20, 2004 I have never heard that either, however, there are known cases of aggressive females who dont stop being aggressive after spaying. they dont get worse, they just dont get better. there seems to be something called "bitch wars" between females, that doesnt happen among males, fixed or not. two females of the same approximate age/size, may square off and never give it up. it happens in packs as well. its especially prevelant, for some reason, among females from the same litter. in a pack it can actually become a fight, until a more dominant member (also usually female) breaks it up. My Lab mix Free is a good example of this. she is "Queen of the hill" in her opinion. Laurel is "peasantry", and among males that would be accepted. But Laurel, peasantry or not, will snap all over freebee when she gets out of line. as laid back and quiet as Laurel is, she will only tolerate so much. It's a girl thing..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted July 20, 2004 Share Posted July 20, 2004 I personally don't believe it. My two 6 year old girls were both fixed by 6 months, Belle was fixed at one year (I got her at 4 months and decided to wait to see if she was already spayed but she never went into heat and we took a chance anyway...she wasn't fixed until then), Gretchen was fixed when picked up from the pound at 9 months and Prissy was fixed at 8 months. None of my girls have a problem with each other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seijun Posted July 20, 2004 Share Posted July 20, 2004 [quote]Intact males are more likely to exhibit dominance aggression than neutered males or females.[/quote] Yes, this is true. I have studied wolf behavior for 2 1/2 years now, and it is common knowledge among wolf/wolf hybrid owners that an intact male is much more likely to display dominance aggression than altered males and females. This applies to both dogs and wolves. (Intact [b]females[/b] can also be more aggressive than altered males/females and unaltered males, but this applies more to wolves than to dogs). This statement is true because the sex organs are often what 'drive' a canine to show dominance aggression. It is generally the more alpha canines who get to mate with the females. In wolf packs, during a certain time of the year, when the females come into heat, challenges can often occur among females and males, each wanting to reach the top of the pack ladder in order to have mating rights. In the end, whoever is alpha male will get to mate with whoever is alpha female. Challenges among the females are more common though. Removing the sex organs of canines takes out a lot of the canine's 'desire' to mate. Without as much desire to mate, they are much less likely to show dominance aggression in order to obtain a more alpha position for mating privileges. I am surprised no one else here has heard of this before. When male dogs fight, it is mostly for rank. When female dogs fight, it can often be to the death. Aggression between two females may or may not be fixed with spaying, it all depends on the individual dog. The same goes for males. ~Seij Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cairn6 Posted July 20, 2004 Share Posted July 20, 2004 [quote]This statement is true because the sex organs are often what 'drive' a canine to show dominance aggression.[/quote] If this is true that perhaps xavierandrea should give it a try with her female. I feel so terrible about her situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seijun Posted July 20, 2004 Share Posted July 20, 2004 [quote name='Cairn6'][quote]This statement is true because the sex organs are often what 'drive' a canine to show dominance aggression.[/quote] If this is true that perhaps xavierandrea should give it a try with her female. I feel so terrible about her situation.[/quote] I am not familiar with that topic, could you direct me to the topic you are referring to (the one about xavierandrea)? For wolf hybrid owners, when someone has two females or two males that are fighting, the first thing we ask is if they are spayed/neutered. If not, we advise that spaying/neutering be done. It works better with males though. Most of the time, when two females begin to fight, separation is the only solution. Female/female aggression in wolves/wolf hybrids can be [b]much[/b] more severe than female/female aggression in dogs though, so spaying may work better for female dogs than it does in female wolves/wolf hybrids. It is also generally accepted that the earlier in the fighting you get the two spayed/neutered, the less likely it will be that they will continue to fight. If two dogs have been fighting for years and are not spayed or neutered, then spaying/neutering probably won't have that much of an effect on their behavior. ~Seij Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xavierandrea Posted July 20, 2004 Share Posted July 20, 2004 Here's the link. My girls fight every so often, they were fine until last week. [url]http://forum.dogomania.com/viewtopic.php?t=14202[/url] Any and all suggestions needed.!!!!!!! Please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seijun Posted July 20, 2004 Share Posted July 20, 2004 I don't have time to skim through all the pages of that topic for the answers I need, so I'll just ask my question here: Are all your rotties female? How old are they? How old are the two that are fighting? Which of your rotties are spayed/neutered? ~Seij Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xavierandrea Posted July 20, 2004 Share Posted July 20, 2004 Asim- male 1 1/2 not neutered Free- female almost 3 spayed-fighting Patti- femal 5 not spayed-fighting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seijun Posted July 20, 2004 Share Posted July 20, 2004 Is Patti the one who starts the fights? Do both dogs enter the fight eager to show dominance or does one usually submit to the other either before or during the fight? ~Seij Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xavierandrea Posted July 20, 2004 Share Posted July 20, 2004 Patti starts the fight and neither girl is willing to back down. The fight usually stops when we make alot of noise, Asim inters or in the case of last week my son interfers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seijun Posted July 20, 2004 Share Posted July 20, 2004 If Patti suddenly stopped starting fights, do you think Free would take over as the "fight-starter"? ~Seij Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xavierandrea Posted July 20, 2004 Share Posted July 20, 2004 I honestly believe that if Patti stopped starting the fights Free would not take over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seijun Posted July 20, 2004 Share Posted July 20, 2004 IMHO, you should get Patti spayed before you try rehoming her. Spaying could be enough to settle her down enough to where she would leave Free alone, or it might be that Patti dislikes Free to the point where spaying would do nothing. It is worth a try though. ~Seij Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtnek Posted July 20, 2004 Share Posted July 20, 2004 I agree with Seijun. Patti is starting the "bitch wars", posiibly because she is unspayed and in the presence of an un-neutered male. She may consider Free competition, and also, I believe she is aware that Free is spayed (they can tell somehow) and feels "higher up" on the ladder. Since Free isnt backing down once the fight starts, Patti isnt quitting either. It cant hurt to try. it may solve your dilemna...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seijun Posted July 21, 2004 Share Posted July 21, 2004 Yes, the fact that there is an unneutered male around DEFINATELY increases the chances of having aggression between females. People who own wolf hybrids who have a lot of wolf in them almost never keep two females and a male together because it will almost guarantee that the females will begin fighting sooner or later. I am not sure if also neutering the male rottie would help any, but spaying Patti could calm her down some. BTW, is 5 yrs too old for spaying? All my dogs were spayed before 3 years old, so I wouldn't know. ~Seij Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtnek Posted July 21, 2004 Share Posted July 21, 2004 no 5 is not too old. my Foxhound was spayed right before I took her home as part of the adoption agreement, and she's 6. no bad affects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imported_Cassie Posted July 22, 2004 Share Posted July 22, 2004 I just saw this post :o I just want to point out that very few types of aggressive behavior come under the influence of sex hormones released either by ovaries or testicles. With few exceptions, such as fighting between male dogs or the maternal instinct to defend the young, the hormonal exacerbation of most aggressiveness is minimal. Hormones cannot be blamed for every thing. Learning and opportunity can be even more important to a pet's tendency to behave in a certain way. In dogs, an individual's inborn temperament traits are shaped by experience as it interacts with the world. Pet owners must be aware of how their reactions shape the future actions of their pets. From an early age and from the moment a pet is introduced into our homes, dogs observe our responses and learn how to get attention or food, or perhaps how to avoid contact or punishment. Be aware of how every action will determine your dogs reaction, immediately and for a life time. It is up to the owner to implement desirable patterns to prevent behaviors that might otherwise could have been prevented. Neutering cannot undo what you have taught your pet to become or what you have allowed in behavior. If you expect neutering your pet will cure undesirable behaviors, you will be setting yourself up for dissappointment. Over the past 30 years I have had a multie dog house hold. I have had as many as 2 intact bitches and a couple of males around at one time with out any aggression problems. I currently have 1 intact bitch and 2 intact males living with me and my 2 spayed females and 1 neutered male (all of my dogs are around the same age). I do not have any problems with aggression. I have also taken my bitches and boys to my friends home who breed Newfoundland dogs...I have put my 6 dogs out to play with may of her intact females with no problems, they have a ball playing together. It all depends on how you bring them up, the rules you set down for them in the house hold...and the breeds you choose...some breeds are just going to be more dominant than others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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