Aonir Posted August 21, 2003 Share Posted August 21, 2003 [quote name='bk_blue']Scotty_lvr, we are a fairly friendly board judging from the several other similar forums I have seen. Many here are involved with animal welfare/breed rescue etc and the amount of dogs put to sleep is not only sickening and saddening but a constant source of frustration. a lot of it IS education, or lack thereof. there are not enough people being educated about the overpopulation crisis in shelters and too many myths still abound about the desexing of pets. DP and Aroura have made some excellent points, as has Roxy. this is a forum where we voice our opinions, some not as popular as others but there are strong personalities on here as you may well have guessed. We don't always agree with guests and we disagree amongst ourselves too. If you've been offended, sorry, but that's the way most forums operate! 8)[/quote] Very well said, BK. I happen to agree 100000% with you ;) My opinion is usually out-weighed but I then see their points and they are right :o I am learning a lot here, and I thank these people for "typing" their opinions and getting my stubborness to listen :D I think DogPaddle asked a lot of good questions that should be answered. I really hope we didn't scare her away and that she'll come back. :angel: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sanvean Posted August 21, 2003 Share Posted August 21, 2003 Like everyone, I am upset when inexperienced people breed their pets, but not everyone is fortunate enough to have the information and the awareness we have. Please remember that a lot of people don't have the background we do on pet care. At least this woman cared enough about her dog to ask how to take care of her and her pups. I do hope she comes back so we can help her out and teach her about the overpopulation crisis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mydogroxy Posted August 21, 2003 Share Posted August 21, 2003 i agree that maybe this person is totally ignorant about the state of over population of animals in the u.s. and probably knows very little about the nature of dogs in general. BUT the fact is, she has two dogs but cannot provide vet care. if you do not have the means to take care of an animal you shouldn't have one. what would happen if one of the dogs got hit by a car? if she can't take them to the vet are they even vaccinated? i do think this person is ignorant, which is nothing to scoff at, everyone's ignorant until they're educated. but i simply have no tolerance for someone who has such disregard for their animals. (and i still love everyone at dogo :D ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted August 21, 2003 Share Posted August 21, 2003 Again, assuming the best possible scenario: Maybe they normally do have enough for vet care but due to unforseen factors their financial situation has changed or is in flux. I certainly would not want everyone who hits a spot of bad luck to give up their dogs, there are already to many dogs in shelters. Now if its not temporary that's another issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aroura Posted August 22, 2003 Share Posted August 22, 2003 Very well said BK, if we couldn't voice our oppinions no one would learn anything and what would be the point of a forum? Yes, we have been a little harsh, I honestly don't think we drove her away, if she's not coming back its because she doesn't want to, or maybe she doesn't have a lot of internet access. Hopefully she will stick around, we may not all be supportive, but we can still help. There are alot of intellegent people in here, and although we may not always agree on every thing, we can share our experience and knoweldge and that in itself is a good enough reason to stick around, plus, once you know every one this forum they become like a second family, I beleive that at least a large majority of this forum honestly cares about one another, speaking for myself I talk about Dogo all the time and if some one in here is going through a hard time I worry, even when I'm not online they are in my heart. Pitbull_lover, please stick around, we didn't mean to scare you off, we may have had a bad start but stick around and become one of the family and I'm sure you and your dogs will be forever happy from it :wink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogPaddle Posted August 23, 2003 Share Posted August 23, 2003 Thanks. I hope Pitbull_Lover shows up and responds but I don't think its gonna happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowie-the-Pooh Posted August 23, 2003 Share Posted August 23, 2003 Pitbull_Lover, please stay! :wink: We didn't mean to scare you off. These are our opinions. Believe me this board has more knowledge then most places I have been at. Everyone here has experience with dogs, bitches, breeding, agressive dogs, etc. etc. If you stick around you will learn so much! :wink: I agree with DP, she could have a financial crisis or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldenLuv Posted August 23, 2003 Share Posted August 23, 2003 Well I just read this one and I will have to agree it is to late to do anything about it now... All we can do is try and help this person in the best possible way...so that the puppies will grow up and hopefully live great lives. This happens on alot of forums and I am sure that it is not a first. I am also touchy about just breeding any dog and adding to the population of homeless animals...we all tend to jump to conclusions! Pitbull_lover- Please come back...this is a great place with some helpful people and we really like to have new members join! We would be glad to have you on Dogo with us. Hey Rowie is the stuffed golden you have in your sig from Build a Bear ( or dog :lol: ) My brother made on from there and I was just wondering:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowie-the-Pooh Posted August 23, 2003 Share Posted August 23, 2003 [quote name='GoldenLuv']Hey Rowie is the stuffed golden you have in your sig from Build a Bear ( or dog :lol: ) My brother made on from there and I was just wondering:)[/quote] No, I got it from a website that has all these little stuffed dogs, I just hadto add it as my sig! :D It was too cute, it was calling me! :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted August 31, 2003 Share Posted August 31, 2003 OH MY DOG!!!! Good Lord please save my breed from these idiotic people who find it okay to throw two pits together just cause they have them!!!! Its probably a good thing I wasnt around when this one first came up. Have a couple of questions for Pitbull_Lover if she returns... 1. Did you breed the bitch to the year old male you have? 2. Are the dogs registered? If so, with what registry? Bloodline? 3. Are either dogs proven GAME? 4. What in the world was going through your head when you bred this bitch? 5. WHY did you breed? 6. If you cant afford to take your bitch to the vet how can you afford puppies? 7. How old is the bitch? 8. Have the dogs been checked for brucellosis? If you cant afford a check-up at the vet you obviously didnt get the health of the dogs checked before you bred. You could be passing brucellosis not only to the male or female but to the pups if they survive. I have to agree with mydogroxy on this one... another complete idiot. PLEASE STOP RUINING MY BREED!!!!!!! Pitbull_Lover, why dont you go to the store, buy some worm medicine and worm your bitch. This will cause her to abort the pups and you can get your sh!t together before you ATTEMPT to breed again. (sorry for the language folks!) [color=red]You shouldnt be breeding if you arent breeding for the good of the breed.[/color] Or to preserve the breed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aroura Posted August 31, 2003 Share Posted August 31, 2003 lol, STRAIGHT into the controvercial topics eh? :lol: Well I hate to say it, but I don't think she's coming back! Pity that, it really sounds like she needs all the help she can get! :o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldenLuv Posted September 1, 2003 Share Posted September 1, 2003 Hmmmm- you said it right!! I wish people would stop ruining the pit bull!! This is really irresponsible but I do not think that this person is going to abort the pups so I think that we should just help make the pups as sensible as we possibly can. :roll: And perhaps educate the owner (who I do not think is coming back) Thanks rowie it is definetly way 2 cute!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carolk9s Posted September 1, 2003 Share Posted September 1, 2003 Ok, my flamesuit is on before I even type this. I have a really difficult time accepting comments and criticism from Hmmmm in regards to ruining 'his' breed. Please correct me if I'm wrong Hmmmm, but don't you fight your dogs and feel that fighting them is perfectly acceptable? Didn't you just have a bitch bred, no doubt to (hopefully) produce more fighters? My personal opinion here, I think the high ground is already far beyond your reach if the above is correct. If I am wrong, if I have mistaken you for someone else, I sincerely apololgize. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowie-the-Pooh Posted September 1, 2003 Share Posted September 1, 2003 [quote]Please correct me if I'm wrong Hmmmm, but don't you fight your dogs and feel that fighting them is perfectly acceptable? Didn't you just have a bitch bred, no doubt to (hopefully) produce more fighters?[/quote] That was what I was thinking, Carol. :-? It could be some other "Hmmm" but I remember a while back a "Hmmm" that fought his/her dogs. I'm not pointing fingers, Hmmm. Or anyone else for that matter. I just remember some while back there [i]was[/i] someone by that name who fought his/her Pits. Sad, isn't it? :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carolk9s Posted September 1, 2003 Share Posted September 1, 2003 Thanks Rowie, I am grateful for the support as I will not doubt be bashed at some point for my post. If indeed this is the same Hmmmm, then it certainly is sad, sad that many have apparently embraced this person and are willing to set a place at the table for him/her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted September 1, 2003 Share Posted September 1, 2003 Im the same Hmmmm. So all the judging and BS is going to start again? Great. Carolk9s I keep this breed as close as posible to the standards of the breed. You have a problem with my keeping the breed this way, oh well. I have a deep love for this breed and anyone breeding them for anything other than gameness is ruining the breed. I guarantee any one of my dogs would be better pet as well as better around people than any other breed or for that matter most other breeders dogs. Why dont you go ahead and start telling all these wonderful people throwing two pits together, you know the ones ruining the breed, that they are doing a good job? Why dont you let them all know its okay for their dogs to show people aggression? There are certain things APBTs need in order to be the dogs they have been meant to be. I make sure they have those certain things. [color=red]Not one of my dogs has ever put his mouth on anyone AND not one of my dogs has ever attacked someone elses pet.[/color] If that doesnt say something... [color=orange]What are you trying start?[/color] All this has been gone over. Those who judge will be judged themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsefeathers! Posted September 1, 2003 Share Posted September 1, 2003 Sorry, K. I'm with Carol on this. I've already been through all this before, so had left it alone (and don't intend to battle it again since being requested not to), but I have to support and respect her for speaking out. You already know how I feel. I believe BOTH (dog fighting AND ignorant breeding) are wrong. Again, sorry. You asked. :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carolk9s Posted September 1, 2003 Share Posted September 1, 2003 [quote name='K']There are SOOOO many differences between Hmmm and this person here... [/quote] Yes, we KNOW Hmmm fights his dogs. Period. I don't care what 'pearls' of wisdom fall from his lips, YOU are all to eager to embrace him in my opinion. If I knew a man who abused his wife, it would not matter how smart he was or how much clear, concise, correct info he could impart, I simply would not get past the fact that he abused his wife. If I knew a woman who abused her kids, same thing. You may not consider the above examples to be in the same category as one who fights his dogs, I do. Its that simple. I have heard that the RULES allow ANYONE. It sickens me that this includes one who fights his dogs. We can speak out against it all we want too but if we are willing to look the other way for just one person, we are just blowing smoke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carolk9s Posted September 1, 2003 Share Posted September 1, 2003 [quote name='K'] Long term breeding program...Hmmm has one she is having a mistake litter [b][color=red]YES TO BREEED MORE PITBULLS AND FIGHT THEM.[/color][/b] ...are we going to begin accepting back yard breeders with absolutely no knowledge or concience and welcome them in with open arms and congratulate them on yet another litter of bastard pups to a year old bitch puppy arriving into an insecure future???? [b][color=red]NEVER SAID WE SHOULD, YOU ARE COMBINING APPLES AND ORANGES. I THINK WE SHOULD CONTINUE TO EDUCATE ANYONE WHO WANTS TO BREED OR HAS AN OOPS LITTER ON THE WAY[/color][/b][/quote] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aonir Posted September 1, 2003 Share Posted September 1, 2003 I don't want to step in, because this is a WEIRD conversation.. But.. Is the 'fighting' that Hmmmm is doing like training a dog to Bark on command, but not bark unless it IS a command? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carolk9s Posted September 1, 2003 Share Posted September 1, 2003 [quote name='K']Does anyone here actually know the difference between supervised, structured "temperament test game rolling" and set up dog fighting in a barn ...[/quote] Why don't you explain it to us K. Especially the 'temperament test game rolling'. Exactly what DOES this entail? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsefeathers! Posted September 1, 2003 Share Posted September 1, 2003 K, I swear I don't want to argue this, but I'm getting sucked in. I *might* have felt differently (I doubt it) had I not seen some of Hmmm's own posts that admitted that dogs were sometimes lost (killed) and called it "unavoidable" (direct quote). Again, I see your point about all the ignorant breeders adding to the problem, but to me, it is just comparing evils. No matter how many other atrocities exist to compare it to, I will never be able to accept it. I asked long before for someone to show the warm and fuzzy side of dog fighting to me and to assure me that these dogs weren't being killed, but read that sometimes deaths were "unavoidable." That made quite an impact on me. If it makes me a "humaniac" (quote du jour by the pro-fighters), then so be it. I don't care the environment... back alley thugs, or carefully HIDDEN and high class society attended. To me, wrong is wrong, whether done by low class thugs, or articulate, well spoken, seemingly well informed people. I don't differentiate between classes if a crime is being committed. A love for the breed, IMO, doesn't justify it. As I pointed out a long time ago, people do all kinds of things in the name of "love." Wife beaters and child molesters "love" their victims. I know this is beating a dead horse, but I'm glad someone else had the fortitude to mention it. When I brought it up before, a "new" rule was in place that forbade us to talk about dog fighting here, regardless of the presence of a known fighter. I respectfully complied, but I know how Carol feels, seeing people who care so much for the welfare of dogs in general embracing a known dog fighter. We can all gang up on someone who is actually seeking knowledge and maybe TRYING to learn something regardless of mistakes, but to address a dog fighter is taboo and how dare anyone else have an objecting opinion. I have a hard time with that. For the record, several years ago, I was considering breeding my own two poorly bred dogs (not Pits) because they were both AKC registered and, in my ignorance, I thought that was all they needed to be "quality." It was through the effort of people who taught me better that I learned differently and know just how stupid that really was. I'm glad, though, that people took the time to help me learn rather than just ridicule me. I'm ONE person who will never contribute to the overpopulation problem. Imagine the difference we could make if we cared enough to bite our tongues and help someone learn rather than offer blatant insults in an effort to justify someone else's wrongdoing. Sure, many will never learn, but what about that ONE that will? Anyway, that's just changing the topic... I've been told repeatedly that I "just don't understand." Well, explain it to me so I do. Still respectfully disagreeing, HF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsefeathers! Posted September 1, 2003 Share Posted September 1, 2003 Why is it when someone disagrees, it's arguing or slagging? :-? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aroura Posted September 1, 2003 Share Posted September 1, 2003 I have to say I'm with Carol on this one, I must have missed the whole "Hmm fights his dogs" bit in the past. Its black and white for me - either you agree with fighting or you are discraced that anyone in this human race can even contemplate such a cruel act. K, I can see where you are coming from but will have to disagree - fighting is WRONG, no matter how you put it, weather you are doing it yourself or contributing by breeding for it. I almost lost a friend over his bitch. Her breeder was going to pay my friend good money to breed his dog so the pups could be faught. I said simply, either its me or the dog, you breed that dog and I will never talk to you again. It sounds drastic, but thats how I feel about fighting, I would rather loose a great friend than to see even one more Pit be bred for fighting pups. Thank god he chose me and desexed his dog. The way I see it, if you have so much knowledge of bloodlines and genetics etc, why not put it to good use and breed for family pets, with good temperements around not only people, but other dogs? Please don't talk about "ruining your breed" when you are also adding to the degrading of this lovely breed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogPaddle Posted September 1, 2003 Share Posted September 1, 2003 [quote]Why is it when someone disagrees, it's arguing or slagging? [/quote] Maybe its just me but I think the majority of folks here aren't slagging, there may be politely arguing their point but that's good, right? I respect people voicing their opinions, good for you all. And, because I firmly believe complacency is complicity, I understand why people are voicing these opinions now and I have to say that I stand firmly against dog fighting. I have no problem with temperment testing as long as it is humane, and I don't think dog fighting is humane. If that's the only way you have to test for a trait then its time to stop worrying about that trait because its not worth it, IMHO. I know I've said it before and that people disagree with me (which is cool, people disagree) but, breed standerds change when there is a proven need and there are many, many non-game dogs out there who are tenacious and perfectly trustworthy around kids and adults. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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