Aroura Posted May 28, 2003 Share Posted May 28, 2003 I've heard about clicker training in the past and never really saw much point in it... well not until today in my psych lab where we were training "Sniffy" the computer rat to push a lever for his food. Before training him to push the lever we trained him to associate a noise with food, so that in shaping the behavior every time he got something right he realised right then and there that what he was doing was good without waiting for the food. So I get it now, it sounds like a really good idea.... so has anyone here had any experience in clicker training before? Any pro's and cons? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angelboddy Posted May 28, 2003 Share Posted May 28, 2003 I am actually greatful that i never had problems with my pup. She was such a good baby-dog. As for the clicker, i've heard that they work wonders. especially on them working, hearding, and hunting dogs. [img]http://community.webshots.com/sym/image3/9/92/3/74699203BJBfeD_ph.jpg[/img] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellieangel Posted May 28, 2003 Share Posted May 28, 2003 Hi Yes I did do some clicker training with Ellie and she enjoyed it. I work as a trainee instructor at a training club and occasionally I will teach people how to use the clicker method if they want to learn or if I think it will benefit the dog in question. I think it's a good tool for some dogs and usually if I recommend it it will be for dogs who find it hard to keep their attention on their owner when training. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Bitch Posted May 28, 2003 Share Posted May 28, 2003 I need some pointers Ellie. I want to start clicker training Bean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nancy B Posted May 28, 2003 Share Posted May 28, 2003 Hey, both my dogs are clicker trained! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aroura Posted May 29, 2003 Author Share Posted May 29, 2003 Thanks, i don't have any troubles with LILys attention when training, she's very focused. Maybe it could help Tessa with her agiility as well? I was also curious as to whether it worked as a secondary reinforcer alone or whether you have to reward with a treat every time you click it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eggrolyn1223 Posted May 30, 2003 Share Posted May 30, 2003 I've heard a lot about it, and there are all those training books on it, but I've never actually tried it..it would probably work though...cuz Duck gets distracted if I don't have food..Yea, I know she's a spoiled little baby:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nancy B Posted May 31, 2003 Share Posted May 31, 2003 [quote name='Aroura']........... I was also curious as to whether it worked as a secondary reinforcer alone or whether you have to reward with a treat every time you click it?[/quote] In a nutshell, clicker training is operant conditioning. You condition your dog to know that when it hears a click, it will get a treat. A clicker savy dog will offer different behaviors in order to earn a click and thus, a treat. If you ever click and do not treat you are simply making the meaning of the click confusing to the dog. Eventually, a click will be meaningless. The most powerful "tool" of a clicker trainer is that the dog knows without any doubt that if they earn a click a treat will follow it. Some folks mistakenly think that they are switching to a variable reinforcement by clicking and not treating. Not so, they're simply undermining their dog's understanding of the clicker. Once a behavior is learned and you wish to move on to partial or variable reinforcement, you may require more than one correct behavior for the dog to earn it's click and treat. You may also require it to hold the correct behavior for longer to earn it's click and treat. Just remember, if you click you must treat. [url]http://www.clickertrain.com/index.html[/url] [url]http://www.dontshootthedog.com/home/?salesitem=default_s[/url] [url]http://www.clickerlessons.com/[/url] [url]http://www.clickersolutions.com/[/url] [url]http://www.clickandtreat.com/[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malamum Posted May 31, 2003 Share Posted May 31, 2003 I love the idea of clicker training however the training club I go to doesn't do it :( I was curious about one thing though, if you were in a class situation with lots of dogs and everyone was clicking wouldn't the dogs get confused over which click is for them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarFox Posted May 31, 2003 Share Posted May 31, 2003 Zebra is somewhat clicker trained. :lol: I was going to write a long post about clicker training but Nancy B (good post by the way) wrote almost the exact same thing that I was going to write . The only thing I ever had trouble with was holding the clicker, the treats and the dog leash at the same time...I'm not a very good multi-tasker :oops: :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malamum Posted May 31, 2003 Share Posted May 31, 2003 [quote]The only thing I ever had trouble with was holding the clicker, the treats and the dog leash at the same time...I'm not a very good multi-tasker [/quote] Ohh Starfox I have the same problem, so I bought this training pouch off the net [url]http://www.polapaws.com.au/bdtp.htm[/url] I'm sure you can get something similar in the US. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nancy B Posted May 31, 2003 Share Posted May 31, 2003 [quote name='Malamum']I love the idea of clicker training however the training club I go to doesn't do it :( I was curious about one thing though, if you were in a class situation with lots of dogs and everyone was clicking wouldn't the dogs get confused over which click is for them?[/quote] Nope, your dog will learn in a very short time period that it's only YOUR click that earns it treats! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nancy B Posted May 31, 2003 Share Posted May 31, 2003 [quote name='StarFox'] The only thing I ever had trouble with was holding the clicker, the treats and the dog leash at the same time...I'm not a very good multi-tasker :oops: :)[/quote] This can be difficult when you're first starting out in clicker training. I can offer a few helpful tips. First of all use treats that you don't mind putting in your mouth. Small pieces of chicken, cheese or hotdogs are what I frequently use. I do keep a bait bag on my waist but, it takes more effort and time to get a treat out of it so, I just keep a bunch in my mouth when I'm training. When I click I either "spit" a treat into my hand and give it to the dog or, if I'm training something that has me facing the dog, I "spit" the treat directlly to the dog. All clickers aren't created equal. I have a bunch of clickers that have an elastic loop on the end. The loop goes over the middle finger of your hand (usually the right hand, if you're working the dog on your left). the clicker winds up lying on the inside of your hand, fingertip area...you don't have to hold it and it's in perfect position to hit with your thumb if you need a quick click. (Picture hitting the pad of your middle finger with your thumb...that's right where it is.) The leash. If you are training at home in a fenced backyard or somewhere else where it is not necessary for you dog to be leashed due to safety requirements or having other dogs in the area, ditch the leash. I train new behaviors at home in my backyard offlead. Both of my dogs were trained to heel offlead. I train all new behaviors offlead. If you do the initial training offlead it serves two purposes. It will keep you from subconsciously manipulating the lead and "helping" the dog into position. (You don't want to do that with clicker training.) The other thing is that if you train offlead then once you do go somewhere like a class situation to continue training you don't have too much lead control to do. When I work in a class situation with my dogs they are on lead but, since they alrealy know "heel" from working offlead, all I do is put the loop of the lead over my right hand (same hand that has the clicker). It's a 6 foot lead and I can't let it just hang down or I'd be tripping over it all the time. When heeling, your right arm is allowed to be bent at the elbow and pulled tight against your waist. I just put the lead between my arm and waist to keep it from tripping us up. I still leave pleanty of slack. I want the dog to be able to forge or lag. How will I know if we have a forging or lagging problem if the dog physically can't do taht in practice? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malamum Posted June 2, 2003 Share Posted June 2, 2003 Thanks Nacy, that info was great! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nancy B Posted June 2, 2003 Share Posted June 2, 2003 You're qute welcome! :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malamum Posted June 3, 2003 Share Posted June 3, 2003 :oops: :oops: oops meant Nancy.... sorry Mental Note - check posts more thoroughly before hitting submit :oops: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nancy B Posted June 3, 2003 Share Posted June 3, 2003 Well hey, I had a typo in mine too! Sometimes (frequently) my fingers get ahead of or behind my thoughts. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tishtash Posted June 3, 2003 Share Posted June 3, 2003 ive bought one of them clicker things, and i started using it for him sitting and giving his paw i would then click and give a bikki. and then wean off the bikki and just click.... i keep forgetting to use (though i havent felt the need to use it) he does everything i ask. when theyve done the task asked you click and reward a treat so they get to know once that they heard the click they know theyve been good,..... i suppose if you go in for real serious training it could be more worth while Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nancy B Posted June 3, 2003 Share Posted June 3, 2003 [quote name='tishtash']ive bought one of them clicker things, and i started using it for him sitting and giving his paw i would then click and give a bikki. and then wean off the bikki and just click.... i keep forgetting to use (though i havent felt the need to use it) he does everything i ask. when theyve done the task asked you click and reward a treat so they get to know once that they heard the click they know theyve been good,..... i suppose if you go in for real serious training it could be more worth while[/quote] You should never click without treating! From a previous post: In a nutshell, clicker training is operant conditioning. You condition your dog to know that when it hears a click, it will get a treat. A clicker savy dog will offer different behaviors in order to earn a click and thus, a treat. If you ever click and do not treat you are simply making the meaning of the click confusing to the dog. Eventually, a click will be meaningless. The most powerful "tool" of a clicker trainer is that the dog knows without any doubt that if they earn a click a treat will follow it. Some folks mistakenly think that they are switching to a variable reinforcement by clicking and not treating. Not so, they're simply undermining their dog's understanding of the clicker. Once a behavior is learned and you wish to move on to partial or variable reinforcement, you may require more than one correct behavior for the dog to earn it's click and treat. You may also require it to hold the correct behavior for longer to earn it's click and treat. Just remember, if you click you must treat. [url]http://www.clickertrain.com/index.html[/url] [url]http://www.dontshootthedog.com/home/?salesitem=default_s[/url] [url]http://www.clickerlessons.com/[/url] [url]http://www.clickersolutions.com/[/url] [url]http://www.clickandtreat.com/[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nancy B Posted June 3, 2003 Share Posted June 3, 2003 BTW, clicker training doesn't mean that you have to carry a clicker around for the rest of your life. The clicker is for TRAINING. Once a behavior (sit, down, shake or whatever) is trained and proofed, you don't need to use the clicker anymore. Yeah, you may occasionally want to do a short "brush up" session to keep response to behaviors sharp but, you don't need to keep using the clicker once the behaviors are solid and proofed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted June 3, 2003 Share Posted June 3, 2003 to my post, when i bought my clicker that what it says to do in the information leaflet.. i woulod be following their guidline. and as to treating with a treat all the time, becomes to over eating and a fat dog you can reward a dog in more other ways. affection for one.and a dog knows hes done well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nancy B Posted June 3, 2003 Share Posted June 3, 2003 [quote name='Anonymous']to my post, when i bought my clicker that what it says to do in the information leaflet.. i woulod be following their guidline. and as to treating with a treat all the time, becomes to over eating and a fat dog you can reward a dog in more other ways. affection for one.and a dog knows hes done well[/quote] Sure, you can follow the advise on your "leaflet" if you wish. I was trying to give the benefit of experience I've had with the clicker. I've read over a half dozen BOOKS on clicker training, attended seminars and put over 20 titles on my dogs using a clicker. As to treats making a dog fat, I would assume that folks would use some common sense. Treats don't need to be big, I use tiny ones! (At home when we don't have the distraction of other dogs around I use "lower value" treats....commonly cheerios!) I also sometimes use a portion of their meals as training treats....just cut back the meal in the same proportion. My dogs would not be competing at the excellent level in agility if they were fat! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malamum Posted June 4, 2003 Share Posted June 4, 2003 The more I am reading on clicker training the more I am keen to start using it. As I mentioned earlier my training club doesn't do clicker training. However I think I might start doing it at home and then ask them if they mind if I bring the clicker along to classes. If I am the only one using a clicker do you think it will distract the other dogs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellieangel Posted June 4, 2003 Share Posted June 4, 2003 We've had a few clicker trained dogs at our club and we've never had a problem with other dogs being distracted by them,I say go for it !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubblezzz Posted June 4, 2003 Share Posted June 4, 2003 I've been thinking about clicker-training my dogs too, but clicker-trainers are hard to come by where I am! Could anybody recommend some good books on this subject? Nancy-B?? Also, if we are supposed to always treat with a click, what happens when the dogs learn the command? Won't they stop performing it (let's say it's SIT) when they don't hear the clicker, because they know that means no treat?? :o In case I'm not making myself clear, here's an example: "Click" - "SIT boy" Dog sits. "Good boy!" Give a Treat After a while... (No need for clicker anymore since dog understands "SIT") "SIT boy" Dog thinking: "Where's that click? What! No click??!! That means no treat, what does she think I am, a sucker?" "SIT boy" Dog walks off. :oops: :roll: :roll: :roll: BTW, that's what Cosmic does when he knows that I don't have a treat for him. :P :roll: I trained him using treats (simple commands like SIT, DOWN, STAY, OFF, PAW, HIGH-FIVE) and it's really frustrating when he won't do stuff unless he knows a treat is coming!!! :evil: I don't want to be dependent on a clicker in place of treats - can someone please explain how this works??? :o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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