ori pei

[Lokipups]

[quote]All people need to do is BACK OFF and let the dogs stay in the pet stores. It will show the millers that there is no one who wants that dog, and in order to get it out of the store, a breed rescue group will come in and take it. NO MONEY EXCHANGED. That is what a real breed rescuer does. They don't put money back into the pockets of millers.[/quote]

ObedGrrl, I can't tell you just how right you are with that statement.
As someone who does PB rescue, I can't tell you how many of our dogs have come from petstores, many of them directly from the store itself when the dog has gotten too big and is no longer saleable.
We had our monthly spay/neuter day yesterday, so after we load the dogs onto the truck we have several hours to kill. We went over to a mall that had just opened up a Maxie Biggz, which is a large chain petstore operated by the Hunte Corp. I could not believe the number of dogs that had overgrown nails, mange, skin problems, dogs listed as puppies when they were clearly adults :o . And it truly broke my heart when I saw a 4 month old Siberian puppy in a cage that was too small :( . I could have bought that pup on the spot, but I know that we'll get her in a few months anyway, whether it's through the the shelter where it will be dumped after purchase or from the store itself.
So we did the next best thing, we handed out our cards, telling people to please adopt from a shelter or rescue before supporting the puppymills. It was proactive, educated the people, and pissed off the store staff to no end (which to me is the icing :P ).
So if you've got the cojones to do it, by all means, stand outside of your local petshop and TALK, be polite, but get your message across to the people, education is our best weapon to in this fight, without it, and without people willing to speak out, we will never win this battle.
Bottom line, just like any other cause, sometimes a few must suffer in order to save the rest and make a change for the better.

[mouseatthebusstop]

[color=red][size=7]THIS TOPIC CARRIES A TROLL ALERT[/size][/color]

[ObedienceGrrl]

Sorry Mouse.....

:oops:

[AllAmericanPUP]

Yep.

I'm going to make up some pamplets though, so next time I go to the mall I can give them to all the people in the pet store.

[Carolk9s]

Thought I had heard it all, buying from a petstore=rescuing a dog? If this was not so twisted, perverted, it would be funny. It is NOT funny and NO you did not 'rescue' your dogs.
As others have said, you simply made it possible for the petstore to reap the profits of selling irresponsibly bred pups, made it lucrative for them to CONTINUE selling more pups, many bred under terrible, horrific conditions.
The process is called supply and demand, if there is NO demand, there is no need for supply. The more 'demand' there is, i.e., the more people like yourself delude themselves into thinking 'just one dog' won't make the problem worse, the more 'supply' will be generated.
It's really so simple.
If a petstore sells 10 pups in a week, just what do you think are going to do with those now empty cages?
1. Go to the shelter and ask if they can help find 10 tossed away dogs a loving home with responsible owners by featuring them in their haven of hell?
2. Decide they don't wish to traffic in puppies anymore, suddenly get a clue that what they are doing is morally wrong?
3. Perhaps you think the petstores will donate a percentage of their profits to existing rescue organizations to help other dogs?
Or, hm, perhaps:
4. The petstore will simply 'place an order' with their favorite miller(s) to send in a fresh batch of living, breathing, warm blooded creatures so that some other sucker can come along and get all warm and fuzzy because they 'saved' a dog.
DING DING DING, I do believe option #4 is by far the most likely scenario.
NO ONE is saying that YOUR dogs don't have a right to live and be loved and cared for etc. Every life is precious, yes indeed. But by buying from a petstore, one simply keeps that wheel in motion, empty cages equal ZERO profits for a petstore, they will fill those cages very quickly with yet another pup from a miller.
I have 3 dogs, a thoughtfully bred Belgian Sheepdog and two rescues. REAL rescues mind you, from REAL rescue organizations.
Lets see, I paid $50 dollars for my Belgian, his breeder knew he was not 'show ring' worthy and simply wanted him to go to a responsible pet home. She screened me pretty thorougly before entrusting me with his care. He had all his puppy shots before I got him. She sure as heck did not make any money off of him, that was not her goal. She surely took a financial loss on him. What was important to her was that he went to a good home.
I paid $50 dollars for my first rescue, she was spayed and up to date on her shots. That shelter org. did not make much if any money from me!
I paid $40 for my second rescue, she was spayed by the org. before I took her home for good. Granted I had fostered this dog and taken her to the vet on my dime before adoptiong her but nonetheless, the org. did not rake in big bucks by adopting this dog to me.
The money the rescue orgs got from me for adopting my two girls was plowed right back into rescue, purchasing food, having vet care done, spaying and neutering, housing dogs and cats and ferrets and bunnies etc. Most rescue orgs. have volunteers that use their time, their own vehicles, their own gas, their own homes, to take care of these animals. Some, like myself, provide vet care out of our own pocket if needed.
So I wonder how much profit the petstore made on your purchases?
I hope you will open YOUR mind and NEVER purchase another animal from a petstore, if you know the facts, there really is NO excuse.

[imported_Kat]

if you supported PETA then you would never have an animal in your home as a pet? Didn't you know thats what PETA's campaign is about? Perhaps you need to read more into what they really think of YOU as a pet owner :lol:

[Guest Anonymous]

I am not going to get into the pet shop controversy--I would never buy a puppy from a pet store simply becuase you would have no opportunity to meet the pups parents or talk with the breeder.

[quote name='AllAmericanPUP']
If you got it from a "breeder" then you supported a back yard breeder.
[/quote]

With this comment do you imply that all breeders are back yard breeders? I hope you are smarter than to apply that label with such generality and lack of discretion. Someone who sells a dog for a profit is not a bad person. There is a huge commitment involved in breeding--time and money. Does it make you a bad person if you are paid for the work you do? Of course not. Why, then, would a breeder who sells a high quality dog be any different?

There are far too many BYB's, without a doubt. I will not argue that point at all. The fact of the matter is, however, that there are also a large number of VERY responsible breeders who go to great lengths to ensure that they are furthering the breed and producing pups with great temperements and health.

Many of these breeder go as far as to educate themselves regarding genetic inheritance and other scientific aspects of breeding. These are the people who do the MOST good for the world of dogs. SO many breeds have become genetically dilute, resulting in dogs with weak nerves who end up in the news because they seperated a 5 year old boy from his face.

Dogs are two things, genes and socialization. Period. Good breeding may not guarantee good genetic traits, but it increases the potential significantly.

Inevitably, you will have individuals from parents of stable nerve, solid drive, and excellent health that have some shortcoming. It is the intelligent, responsible breeder who culls this individual (not kills it, culls it, meaning removes it from the breeding stock).

By no means am I downplaying the contributions of rescue groups and individuals, but to fix a problem, you must focus on the source. Good breeders fix nearly all of the problems with dog ownership. They produce a drastically better dog and take an active role in screening potential owners in order to place the dog in the best possible home. The result? Fewer dogs that are unpredictable and end up in shelters because the snapped at the baby or are food aggressive. Further, fewer "overzealous" owners purchase dogs that may be too much for them to handle and then turn them in to the shelters.

I think we can all agree that, in the ideal world, there would be no need for shelters or rescue groups--something which is ONLY possible through responsible breeding.

[AllAmericanPUP]

:rofl:
[quote]Someone who sells a dog for a profit is not a bad person[/quote]

[Guest Anonymous]

Was that you disagreeing?

I challenge you--Imagine the following situation:

You really want a dog and you are fairly knowledgable. You may even have an idea of what breed you like. Let's assume that you are right--breeders are satan incarnate. So, like the angel you are, you go to the shelter or to a rescue group--either one, it doesn't matter.

When you get there, you are surrounded by pups who shy from you, snap at you, or are in bad health. The dogs are worse--the are bigger. They bark, growl, whimper in fear, and some are also in bad health. Would you choose one of these dogs to adopt despite the fact that they have nearly no potential as a companion or have a long life of espensive medical attention?

Answer me this question: Why are there SO many dogs--individuals, not breeds--that are so bad off? If your answer doesn't include bad breeders, you have a lot to learn.

Now, answer me this question: Have you ever gone to school? Did you go to college? Have you ever had any job training? When you did, did you expect to be compensated for your time and effort? I know I expect a profit for those things.

Good breeders spend a huge amount of time and energy researching and learning about their breed, keeping up their facilities, etc. Why should they not be compensates, just as you are, for their efforts?

Joseph

[Lucky Chaos]

I applaud good breeders. If there were no breeders there would be no dogs. Good breeders do not breed mutts though. And NO good breeder would EVER EVER sell to a pet shop.

You did NOT in any way shape or form rescue a dog. I have a dog from a pet shop myself. In this case, I didn't know any better, and I was a child. But I realize now my mistake, you are still saying that you did a good thing.

Yes, I would sacrifice the puppies in pet shops now to end puppy mills once and for all. Otherwise if people keep pretending that they are doing a good thing by buying these dogs and "saving" them there will be no end to puppy mills. It just has to be done, unfortunately it probably never will be.

You should do more research on PETA. I can't think of one animal lover who supports their horrific acts. "Rescuing" hundreds of dogs in labs just to set them free, so they can die by getting hit by cars. Thats what PETA does to "help" animals. To them all domestic animals are brainwashed to be slaves. If you agree with PETA you shouldn't own animals, because thats exactly what they're against. I would never support them in a million years.

[wrinkles]

i must admit i never knew ALL that about peta...So i must say i didnt look into them as much as i should have.. i didnt come on this site to start a war.. I just feel every animal deserves a chance at life..and believe it or not i do not agree with puppymills.. yes i bought my dog from a pet store , but i did what i felt i had to do...yes i understand everyones point, i even agree with it to an extent.....but i still stand firm on those puppies were born and deserve a home....000

[eric]

I just wanted to say something regarding rescue operations not being legit and that they are turning a profit of some sort.

I have adopted from three different rescue operations, two of which are relatively small shelters that subsist exclusively on donations. Far from turning a profit, these shelters operate on the constant verge of bankruptcy.

They are run out of a deep love and compassion for animals and are often staffed by volunteers.

Rarely will you find organizations that are so financially effecient, and every last penny goes to good use.

[Crystal]

[quote name='wrinkles']well, i'm sad to say i got him from a pet store as i did my english bulldog....I have to say I hate puppy stores and argue with them every time i walk through the door..[/quote]


When you use the words sad, hate, and argue....Then I think you knew it was wrong. Those pups are hard to resist and yes everything born human, animal, or plant deserves a chance at life but for what you paid for a pet store dog how many dogs could have been rescued. You could have rescued a dog from a shelter and then donated the rest of that dough you spent to help other dogs in need. I'm not trying to be mean or anything it's just that we have to help educate people and sometimes you have to beat it in there heads!!!! Lets face it now you've done it and it can not be undone...next time you long for a new dog stay away from that petstore. I bet if you went to the local humane society you would not have any need for arguing with them!

[courtnek]

ok Wrinkles, let me take a different tack on this issue....basic math.

in this country, or any country who's economy is based on supply and demand, their has to be a demand to make it worth providing the supply.
if no one bought Toyota's, Toyota would stop selling here. if no one shopped at Sears, Sears would close down. it would not be worth their investment to stay open when no one was buying their products.

same with pet stores and puppymills. yes the dogs are cute. yes they deserve homes, I wont fault you for that, however, if people continue to
buy them, that fuels the economic resource of the puppymillers to continue to create puppies to sell. its a huge vicious circle. the only way to stop it is to stop buying the puppies. I know that sounds harsh, but those dogs are not from well bred stock. Are you aware that the mothers of these puppies are forced to get pregnant at every available opportunity, just to keep producing more and more puppies? this is the animal equivalent of a sweat shop, which are illegal in this country.

the best way to shut any company down is through their profit margin. hit 'em in the pocketbook as it were. thats what we here try to teach as many people as we can. the whole "how much is that doggy in the window" attitude can be changed if everyone realizes whats involved in getting it changed.

which means dont buy the product. no cash flow means they go out of business.

[pyrless]

i just wanted to point something out.
i agree that supply and demand fuels the puppy mill/pet store machine.
and that breeding dogs solely for profit is ultimately a ridiculous proposition.
however, since the pet store caters to the impulse buyer, did it ever occur to anyone that the majority of the purebred rescue/shelter dogs are indeed from that very same source, given up by unprepared and uneducated owners, as after all the pet store will not take a puppy back if it "doesn't work out"? while i understand that not willingly feeding in to the supply/demand structure is imperative, the behavior, temperamental and structural problems often found in rescues are a direct result of the same machine, and we love them all the same, some folks even to the point of being self-congratulatory for rescuing from a shelter that very same pup.
just a thought. this is by no means meant to be a blanket statement, just kind of a devil's-advocate point of view.
by the way, why is it called an "ori-pei" ? where does the "ori" come from?

[drjeffrock]

[quote name='jweissg']

[quote name='AllAmericanPUP']
If you got it from a "breeder" then you supported a back yard breeder.
[/quote]

With this comment do you imply that all breeders are back yard breeders? .[/quote]
Anyone breeding Oripeis would certainly qualify in my book as a backyard breeder.
The only thing that aggravates me is when people think that rescues are profiting from placing dogs. We usually charge people $150 to adopt an Akita. We are a not-for profit organization who is ALWAYS operating in the red. The money we charge basically allows us to not drown.

[courtnek]

while I agree with you Pyrless to an extent, I also feel that there will always be dogs in shelters even if we closed down every puppy mill on the planet. there will always be owner surrenders for various different reasons. there will always be dogs that escape and are never found by their owners. there will always be people that are forced to move somewhere that doesnt allow pets. I dont think the shelters will ever be empty.....if we can reduce the number by eliminating the puppy mills, at least those dogs wont have to face the "blue juice" because the shelters are overburdened, overcrowded, and under funded....

just my take.

I have a question....the pyr that one the category at westminster had orangeish spots....is that normal? there arent a lot of pyrs around here, and all of the few I have seen were completely white....

just curious

[mouseatthebusstop]

[quote][quote]AllAmericanPUP wrote:

If you got it from a "breeder" then you supported a back yard breeder.
[/quote]

With this comment do you imply that all breeders are back yard breeders? I hope you are smarter than to apply that label with such generality and lack of discretion. Someone who sells a dog for a profit is not a bad person. There is a huge commitment involved in breeding--time and money. Does it make you a bad person if you are paid for the work you do? Of course not. Why, then, would a breeder who sells a high quality dog be any different? [/quote]
I think you have miss understood here - the breeder who supplys the pet shop pups is a BYB OR puppy millar

[pyrless]

i agree, divineoblivion, that is pretty macabre.
courtnek, i hear what you are saying and i do agree with you on the overpopulation and owner surrender issues, and certainly if the puppy mills were out of business there would indeed be more room for the dogs from other sources. And also that the shelters will never be empty, sadly, because of, among other things, humanity's paradoxical tendency to be inhumane. I was just kind of opening up another avenue, so to speak, to think about rescues. :wink:
In answer to your question, yes! The Great Pyrenees is often seen with markings, ranging from lemon to light brown, reddish brown, grey and "blaireau", which is a sable-y color. As long as the dog gives the impression of being predominantly white and the markings cover no more than 1/3 of the body, it is permissible within the standard. I have never seen the butterscotch color markings that Fame has and was quite impressed! Also it is held that marked dogs carry better pigment, black pigment on the nose, eye rims and even nails being of paramount importance to the standard, so they are integral to any successful breeding program. :wink:
Love my Pyrs, thanks for giving me the chance to explain! :D

[courtnek]

sorry DO. that term was given to me by a vet tech many many years ago, and it just kinda stuck. maybe it was blue back then, but they are using a different solution now which is pink? didnt mean to confuse.

:oops: :oops:

give me a break DO, I'm old.....

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[courtnek]

oh no prob. I know you werent yelling at me :lol:

yes, I have seen it blue, but its gotta be 20 years ago now. (I TOLD you I was old... :lol: :lol: :lol: )

the term "blue juice" just seems to stick in my head for some reason...


:lol:

[imported_Kat]

The blue stuff is called Euthatal and we used to use it at the surgery then Dolethal came into play and its the pink stuff :wink:

[AllAmericanPUP]

[quote]When you get there, you are surrounded by pups who shy from you, snap at you, or are in bad health. The dogs are worse--the are bigger. They bark, growl, whimper in fear, and some are also in bad health. Would you choose one of these dogs to adopt despite the fact that they have nearly no potential as a companion or have a long life of espensive medical attention? [/quote]

I go to the shelter a couple times a week and i have NEVER had a dog shy from me, growl at me, nor try to bite me.

If I could take em home,you damn right I would take one of em home!

[AllAmericanPUP]

[quote name='pyrless']i just wanted to point something out.
i agree that supply and demand fuels the puppy mill/pet store machine.
and that breeding dogs solely for profit is ultimately a ridiculous proposition.
however, since the pet store caters to the impulse buyer, did it ever occur to anyone that the majority of the purebred rescue/shelter dogs are indeed from that very same source, given up by unprepared and uneducated owners, as after all the pet store will not take a puppy back if it "doesn't work out"? while i understand that not willingly feeding in to the supply/demand structure is imperative, the behavior, temperamental and structural problems often found in rescues are a direct result of the same machine, and we love them all the same, some folks even to the point of being self-congratulatory for rescuing from a shelter that very same pup.
just a thought. this is by no means meant to be a blanket statement, just kind of a devil's-advocate point of view.
by the way, why is it called an "ori-pei" ? where does the "ori" come from?[/quote]

Yes alot of em probably do come from shelters.
But the point is is that YOU are NOT supporting the pet store/puppymill.

You are saving a life, it's not your fault that some impulsive idiot supported that pet store.

I'm not saying that the dogs at pet stores aren't great pets, because they are(well sometimes..alot of times they have behavioural issues) but if people continue to buy from pet stores, then puppymills will continue to stay in business and the cycle will NEVER end

There is difference between buying from a pet store and rescuing a pet store puppy from a shelter/rescue.

[courtnek]

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

if he's willing, I could supply a list....



:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: