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Kerislc

Are mixed breeds really that bad?

36 posts in this topic

I have been reading through the breeding posts and have started feeling like a very irresponsible dog owner. I knew I wanted a little dog, probably a shih tzu, and didn't really care if it was pure bred or not. I didn't want to show or breed, I just wanted a companion dog.

I looked for [b]months[/b] at the sheters and could not find any small dogs that weren't snippy or old. That was my ideal place to get a dog, but I just couldn't find what I was looking for (and I am allergic to most dogs, so that enhanced my troubles).

Anyway, The couple that I ended up buying my dog from bred their AKC shih tzu with their daughter's shih tzu/maltese mix. The puppies all turned out to be darling and not knowing what I do now, that was the most important part.

I adore my dog and don't really second guess getting him. I guess my question is, is purchasing a mixed breed frowned upon mainly because of overpopulation?

Just curiuos.

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Well IMO I don't like breeding "mutts" on purpose. I say, If you want a small dog or if you want a mutt go to the pound. Just don't breed to add to the over population. Just my opinion...

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I think yes, mixed breeding is mainly frowned on because of overpopulation. If you have been visiting shelters than you should know what a crying shame it is. In my opinion it is not wrong that you took on one of these puppies, and I'm sure it is a very fine puppy ... good for you! But yes it was wrong of the people you bought your dog from - wrong, cruel, selfish, ignorent, etc. to intentionally breed the way they did. (By the way I think it is just as bad and even worse to breed "purebred" litters unless you REALLY know what you are doing ... please see the sticky "What is a responsible breeder?" or something like that).

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when u bought the small dog u have ended the life of a good puppy or dog in the shelters. I am sure your puppy is a cute one , and now that u have it I am sure u'll be a responsible friend for it for the rest of its' life.
everyday I browse the sites of the shelters in the USA and around the world, and I am shocked to see so many beautiful dogs and cats, and some of them are pure, just waiting for good ppl to adopt, otherwise they are killed. I wish I can build a country where I can put all those unwanted pets in it and to promise them love .
my dogs are mixed breed, and I wouldn't give them up for any pure ones.
they r soo affectionate and smart.
Tiger, my 2 years and half dog , wakes me up if my blood sugar gets low at night, and he did it without any training. he saved my life several time, and even if he didn't do it , I wouldn't let him down.
thanks .

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Here's my opinion on breeding mixed breed dogs. A responsible breeder will do all that the responsible pure-bred breeders do, and they will also not breed just for money, they will breed to provide either a good working companion (some mixed breeds are produced as better working dogs), or just a good companion overall. Furthermore, a responsible mixed breed breeder will be sure to take back any unwanted dog and make sure that the pups they sell with be spayed/neutered, thus preventing their dogs from adding to overpopulation in shelters. Although 'tis true the person buying from them could have gotten a dog from a shelter, thus easing overpopulation, there is no guarantee that that is what they would have done. Buying does have benefits to adopting. If you buy from a responsible breeder, you know your pup's origins, and you know it will grow up with good health and a good temperament. You get a puppy from a shelter, you may not know for sure what its origins are, and you don't know what sort of health or temperament problems it might have when it grows up. It does not mean a dog from a shelter can't be just as good as one from a breeder, but some people like to know for sure what they are getting. You adopt from a shelter and you always run the chance that the pup came from a byb and will die in three years from health complications. Although I do not encourage people to breed mixed breeds, I will not penalize the people who do it responsibly and who make sure every dog gets a good, loving home. I feel that they provide people who want it with a mixed breed dog of known origins, health, and temperament. Personally, I do not feel that a responsible mixed dog breeder adds to overpopulation anymore than a pure-bred breeder does.

EDIT: Another argument people like to use against breeding mixes is that it isn't ok because it doesn't better any specific breed. Well what exactly is "bettering a breed"? The only thing I can think of is a dog bred to do its original, working job. The vast majority of so called responsible pure bred breeders though just breed companion animals or show animals. How is this bettering the breed if none of those dogs are contributing to its breed's original working purpose? I just don't see how a person could justify responsibly breeding pure-bred dogs but not mixed ones, unless the person is opposed to all pure-bred breeding except for dogs that are performing their original jobs.

~Seij

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Well I respectfully disagree with much of Seij's post above, I did want to reiterate to this poster that I do not feel you are an irresponsible dog owner in the least. Nor did you "kill" a shelter dog because you bought your pup. There are lots af really good people here who have bought their dogs. Many have bought and adopted dogs. What is most important is thay you love and take care of your dog. It sounds like you are a very good owner. Maybe if the time comes and you want another dog you will find the right one in a shelter ... or maybe not. You are fine. (The ones you got your pup from, on the other hand ... :evil: :evil: :evil: in my opinion ...)

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This post isn't about buying from a reputable breeder vs. adopting, so I dont know how that got thrown in here..

She bought from a BYB obviously.
Yes it is looked down upon.
Somebody show me a responsible mix breed breeder.
I'm talkin a real mix, not like one of the members aussie bulldogs, cause those throw consisten puppies.
i'm talkin like bull boxers, or schnoodles or what the heck ever.

Did you ever look on [url]www.petfinder.com[/url] for a dog?

when you brought from a BYB you put money into the persons pocket and that makes them want to breed more and more becuase they know they can get money from the puppies.

I don't think it makes you irresponsible, because I think you have learned about what a "bad idea" it was..

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What you did isn't the best thing you could have done and it's also not the worst.

Next time instead of confining yourself to the local shelter, also check petfinder.com and look at surrounding rescues as well. You'll have a much larger selection and rescues can generally tell you more about the dog you want to adopt.

Here's another option. Look in the classifieds because people are always trying to get rid of their young (6 months - 2 years old) dogs. They may be mixed breeds and they may be purebred. I look in the classifieds regularly and I'd say it's about half and half. Some people might disagree with this but in my opinion these dogs are just as needy as a dog in the shelter because they are either headed there anyway, or living with people who do not want them and are probably not taking the best care of them.

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[quote]This post isn't about buying from a reputable breeder vs. adopting, so I dont know how that got thrown in here.[/quote]

Well ... it is about buying instead of adopting, that is what she felt bad about ... I sure wasn't trying to change the subject of the post!

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[quote]Somebody show me a responsible mix breed breeder.[/quote]
AllAmericanPUP you do know that ALL of our purebreds are orginally mixes :D

As Seijun mentioned there are many people who constantly mix dogs to make a good working dog. Look at the Alaskan Husky, they are mixes mainly border collie mixes. They are the best sled dogs. There are alot of good working dogs that are mixed.

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[quote name='AllAmericanPUP']This post isn't about buying from a reputable breeder vs. adopting, so I dont know how that got thrown in here..

Somebody show me a responsible mix breed breeder.
[/quote]

I'm not saying there is one, I'm just saying that IF there was a responsible mixed breed breeder, I would not find fault with them just because their dogs were mixed, and I would not find fault with someone buying from them. Personally, I have never met or seen a responsible mixed breed breeder (for something like labradoodles, rottipoos, etc). I don't even know if one exists. Most mixed breed breeders are just in it to sell cutely named mutts for money. That isn't to say though that there isn't a person out there who [b]isn't[/b] in it for money, and who [b]doesn't[/b] try to draw in buyers with cute little names and "tags" like "purebred Aussiedoodle" or something like that (there are mixed breeds out there though that DO perform jobs, and are not bred just to be pets. I consider most of their breeders responsible). Sorry if I turned the topic into a breeder vs adopting discussion, I just don't like the constant bashing mixed breeders get JUST because their dogs are not pure. Her original question was why mixing breeds is frowned upon. I don't frown on it though (when it is done responsibly of course) because I think that it [i]is[/i] possible for a mixed breeder to be responsible. JMO though, please no one hate me for it... :(

~Seij

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Well, we are not sure what the breeder's motivation was in this case. To me it sounded like it could easily be a one time "oh my dog and my daughter's dog are so great let's make some puppies" ... ignorant, yes .. but they are not necessarily puppy millers. They may have charged $50 or so just to recoup vet bills. We don't know.

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I have nothing against RESPONSIBLE breeding.
I'm not saying that just because someone breeds mixes that they are automatically a BYB.

I'm all for the responsible breeding of alaskan huskys cause they are absolutely amazing dogs! and the people who do breed them are NOT in it for money.

I think down in Australia there are some reputable breeders of labrdoodles and such, because this "breed" was created to help children who needed services dogs but were allergic to dogs.
You get a dog(sometimes not always) that has the brains of a lab, but the coat of a poodle.
giving you a service dog that people aren't allergic to :D

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[quote name='AllAmericanPUP']labrdoodles and such, because this "breed" was created to help children who needed services dogs but were allergic to dogs.
You get a dog(sometimes not always) that has the brains of a lab, but the coat of a poodle.
giving you a service dog that people aren't allergic to :D[/quote]

I don't understand the whole Labradoodle concept, though I've heard it explained several times. It just hasn't sunk in with me. I mean, I don't understand how they are assured that it won't be a curly coated shedding dog (combining the both) and the other thing is that Labs are not categorically more intelligent than Standard Poodles. I guess I can't understand why, if someone wanted a virtually shed free (sorta) breed and one that is intelligent, a plain ol' Standard Poodle won't do. Highly intelligent AND a user friendly coat. I don't see the need to mix Lab into it. I'm pretty open minded and can see where there might be usefulness in mixing some breeds for a purpose, but I just don't get the mixing of Labs and Poodles when they have similar temperaments and trainability and one already has the highly desired "allergy friendly" coat. I just don't understand people who don't want a Poodle, but will settle for a Poodle Lite. :-?

That's just addressing the whole "coats and brains" theory. IMO, it's flawed.

I also have nothing against responsible breeding. I'm not even sure where I stand on the whole mixing of breeds thing. I'm all for the diversity in the gene pool, but very few people who are mixing something in with their chosen breed are doing it for the sake of sustaining healthy bloodlines. Most people are out to capitalize on cute. That's what I have a problem with.

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[quote name='Horsefeathers!']I guess I can't understand why, if someone wanted a virtually shed free (sorta) breed and one that is intelligent, a plain ol' Standard Poodle won't do. Highly intelligent AND a user friendly coat.[/quote]

I have always wondered the same thing. My Kody was easily trainable and big enough to do the work as well.

Maybe people don't like to deal with the necessary grooming?

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I'm not against breeding of pedigree dogs. What I am against is irresponsible breeding of pedigree dogs as well as intentional breeding of 2 breeds and crossbreeds. My next dog will be a pedigree Border Collie because my intentions for that dog are to compete and i want to be sure of that dogs parentage. The way I see it is that I have done my bit for shelter dogs in the past by fostering and rehoming countless numbers of dogs not to mention hand rearing abandoned animals. I would still be helping at shelters but as you know i did try and volunteer and the shelter here was nasty about it and told me no.

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I guess you could say that I am a "responsible" mixed breed breeder, for whatever that is worth. I have Alaskan Huskies, one of the mixed breeds that Siejun alluded to as being produced for a specific job. In the 25 years I've been mushing, I've produced 3 litters of Alaskan Husky puppies totaling 20 dogs. Of those 20, I've kept 12 of them for myself, 6 went to other mushers and 2 went to "pet " homes. The two that went to pet homes were thoroughly screened to make sure that they would have the proper exercise and socialization. The reason the pups went to pet homes is that they were simply too big to race, compliments of some Malamute blood in their backrounds. As far as the "Labrodoodle" buiness, my feeling is that it all about money. Period.

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I guess my big question here is why would you pay $$$ for a pure bred mix? You paid money for a mix breed?

As a breeder of pure bred Belgian Sheepdogs, I charge for my puppies and very reasonable too.

The money is receive pays for high quality food, xrays for the adult dogs, dog toys etc.

Again, I have to ask ....... you paid money for a mix breed? What sort of guarantees did you get from this person about your pup?

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Wow, it looks like I started quite a discussion. After reading the posts there were a couple of things I wanted to bring up.

I only paid for the vet bills for this puppy. I have seen ads in the paper in SL for hundreds of dollars and I agree that that is excessive

The second thing is I did look on Petfinder every day for at least 3 months and even drove 350 miles to look at a dog in Southern Utah, which turned out to have some health problems that I did not feel I could accomodate.

I also had wanted to train my dog in the READ program in our city and thought it would be best to train a dog as a puppy if they were going to become a therapy dog. Scout is training for that right now.

I guess mixed breed or not is beside the point now. I am a great dog owner and am better informed to make a more responsible decision in the future. At this point that is by far the most important thing.

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[quote name='JudyHoffman']he money is receive pays for high quality food, xrays for the adult dogs, dog toys etc. [/quote]

[quote name='JudyHoffman']You paid money for a mix breed?[/quote]

Don't all dogs deserve this, purebred or not?

If someone has an accidental litter, is it wrong for them to expect potential adopters to reimburse them the same way people reimburse you?

I don't see what the dog's breed has to do with it.

BTW, when you adopt from a rescue you are in effect "paying for a mixed breed."

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[quote name='Kerislc']I guess mixed breed or not is beside the point now. I am a great dog owner and am better informed to make a more responsible decision in the future. At this point that is by far the most important thing.[/quote]

Absolutely! My point has been all along, you did nothing wrong, you are a great dog owner and you have yourself a fine little puppy. Good luck with the therarpy training and by the way a big "Howdy, neighbor!" from Grand Junction.

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I know I might be a little late on this, I read most the post. I really like this said by you desertlady.

[quote]I did want to reiterate to this poster that I do not feel you are an irresponsible dog owner in the least. Nor did you "kill" a shelter dog because you bought your pup.[/quote]

You didn't cause the death of a shelter dog, in fact you might have SAVED that dog from the shelter/death or possibly a terribly abusive. I mean the dogs were already here and bred, if you didn't take one what would have happened to it. Lots of the dogs from these peoples litters end up in shelters, dumped off, go from home to home, might be abused, neglect, ect.

I don't think you are an irresponsible dog owner (maybe not an informed buyer) its about ownership and not where you got the dog. I would never suggest to buy from a byb because it continues the cycle and its better to get from responsible breeders. If you are then check shelters and rescues. However you do have to factor in where the byb pets would end up. So I have no problems with people who buy from them, and I've had byb dogs before from the "breeders" rescues, shelter dogs, ect.

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to start off.. You are not an irresponsible dog owner. Being a misinformed buyer does not make you an irresponsible owner.
Second, I know I am repeating what TruePits said, but you might have saved that dog from going to a shelter. IMO a rescue doesn't have to be a pound dog or a dog from a formal rescue group, a rescue is just that.. Saving a dog from what could possibly be a bad situation.
My friend took a puppy that was advertised in the paper as"Must find homes for poodle x pups or they go to the pound". She took the last pup that nobody wanted because he was larger and didn't have the poodle coat, and chances are that he would have wound up in the pound had she not found him first. IMO that is a rescued dog.

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[quote name='kendalyn'][quote name='JudyHoffman']You paid money for a mix breed?[/quote]

If someone has an accidental litter, is it wrong for them to expect potential adopters to reimburse them the same way people reimburse you?[/quote]

I agree. The original post did not indicate how much money was paid.

I would have issue with someone paying $300 for a mix from a BYB, don't get me wrong. I think it's silly... but there is no such thing as a "Free" puppy, anyway. If you adopt a puppy, you have to take it to the vet and pay a small fortune for all its shots and tests, anyway. So the breeder had some of that done, and the buyer compensated for that.

I don't believe in giving any animal away for "Free." It invites some very bad people. It also encourages people to adopt on a whim, which is unhealthy. They say if you ever have to get rid of kittens (or puppies, I suppose) to charge for them, even if it's only $20, to try and weed out the bad people. And if I were to capture a litter of stray kittens, take care of them for a few weeks, take them to the vet, etc. Would it be wrong of me to charge $20 each for them, even if they are mongrel kitties? Would it be ridiculous for an adopter to pay $20 for a mixed breed? I don't think so.

And I paid $70 to spring my mutt from the pound... I have no qualms with that.

All that said, I think it was wrong for those people to breed their dogs, probably for no reason whatsoever. It was not the best idea to support a BYB by buying the puppy, but you didn't know better, and you had good intentions. Plus you may have saved that puppy from a bad life (or death).

To answer the title question, No, there is nothing wrong with mixed breeds. Many of us, you will find, have them. What we don't like here is irresponsible breeding. That means someone with a dog breeds because their dog is cute, or puppies are cute, or they want to make money, or puppies are fun, or their dog is just so sweet it needs to be passed on, etc. That is irresponsible; that is wrong; THAT is what kills puppies in shelters.

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[quote]I don't understand the whole Labradoodle concept, though I've heard it explained several times. It just hasn't sunk in with me. I mean, I don't understand how they are assured that it won't be a curly coated shedding dog (combining the both) and the other thing is that Labs are not categorically more intelligent than Standard Poodles.[/quote]

Hello. :D
I am a Labrador breeder. Here's my thoughts on Labradoodles, and why I don't agree with mixing breeds, regardless of whether or not our original dogs were mixed to create today's breeds.

Labradoodles are bred for a purpose, a good one at that. The coat is not guarenteed to be non-shedding or hypoallergenic, but in third generation puppies this is pretty set and the dogs are usually alike. I DO NOT agree with the people who are breeding these dogs and selling them as mere companions. I believe they should be bred only to do what we intended, seeing as the Service Labradoodles I have seen and/or heard of are all amazingly excelling dogs. I would never breed one of my Labs to a Poodle. NEVER! That's just me. To those who breed the Labradoodle for it's intended purpose as a Service Dog for the Needy, More power to you. Labradors were not just crossed with Poodles because of the coat, that may very well have been a miscalculation to the breeder himself. Poodles in general do not have the overall temperament needed in Service Dog work, whereas most Service-Bred Labradors do. I'm certainly not saying Poodles have bad temperaments, this was just one of the deciding factors.

As for other mixed breeds, No. Leave the breeding up to the people who know what they're doing. If you decide to breed two breeds together for a working purpose, ask yourself "Am I really going to get what I want? Is this dog really going to possess the best of both worlds? Or will it be a complete fluke? Is it worth the risk of a bitch's life?". There are over 400 dog breeds in the world with set standards and formal recognition, to mix two breeds these days is like saying "Well I'm just not satisfied with what I've got, eventhough I have no clue what I'm doing mixing two breeds anyhow." :wink:

I'm not here to down anyone who owns a mixed breed. One of our very own inhabitants is a Collie Cross from a local rescue organization. I'm just simply saying my opinion. :D

[b]NYLabLady[/b]

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