What do you feed?

[AllAmericanPUP]

What does everyone here feed their dogs?

I feed all of my dogs(and cats except one) Diamond Pet Foods.
the 6 adult dogs get Diamond Original
and my senior girl, Maggie, gets Diamond senior.
cats eat Diamond Cat food
my senior cat eats Nutro Max senior cat food..

[TDG]

my cats eat innova and are doing extremely well on it. it's still baffling for me how 5 large cats can maintain weight on 2 cups a day divided up between them all, but it's all they need. 3-4 times a week i supplement with some raw meat, canned sardines or canned food, but the stubborn critters just consider those things a snack, but not a meal.

my dog has eaten innova, canidae, wellness lamb and california natural with good results, but due to many concerns i have moved away almost entirely from commercial food.

he now eats a diet that is made up of about 50% raw meaty bones, and the other half spans from raw meat mince with veggies to cooked meals including various grains to eggs, dairy products (especially cultured yogurt and cottage cheese) and last but not least a variety of healthy leftovers of human meals.

i still do feed some kibble so he will still accept it when staying with friends or on road trips, but that is just a very minor part. 4 pounds of kibble last us about 6 weeks these days (my dog weighs 22 pounds).

[Aroura]

TDG, do you mind me asking what sort of concerns steered you away from commercial food for that particular dog?

I feed a wide variety of foods. My Papillons are both on a BARF diet, they get meats such as beef, lamb, turkey chicken and roo, they also get sardines and offal twice a week. They have their meatballs which are made of meat, eggs (with shell), veggies, fruit and a bit of grain (brown rice, oats or pearl barley), to which they have flaxseed oil, kelp, brewers yeast, wheatgerm and spirulina added to. They get either chicken or lamb bones every night, as well as minced chicken carcass in their meat balls. When I get my pup he'll aslo be having a fruit, oat and yoghurt/cottage cheese meal once a week with extra virgin olive oil. He'll also be getting roo and rabbit bones as well, and will have an egg added to each of his sardine and offal meals.

[katetsai]

Just recently I switch to Wellness. So far so good... I can already tell the difference between my old dog food & Wellness by the fresh smell.

[izzy]

I feed Diamond too, and recently reading posts mostly from TDG and Cassie i'm giving some variety to the diet of the dogs with some home made recipes. :)

[TDG]

aroura, they are not specifically concerns with this dog (he's very healthy and happy, no issues at all for which i am grateful), but concerns with the food products themselves. i've been doing research for 4 years now and have learned a lot.

my main concern about commercial foods (especially dry) is ingredient quantities and qualities. most people do not realize that the most popular brands consist of less than 20% meat content, and even some of the high-end brands are very heavy on grains. the content in wellness is only about 30% for example. kibble can not include more than 50% meat because it makes the manufacturing process impossible and the finished kibble would easily crumble and not store well.

while dogs are not strictly carnivores, their digestive tract is designed for processing meat, fat and bones but lacks the enzymes and features that efficiently break down plant cell walls and carbohydrates. for that reason, you have to pulp, grate or cook veggies and fruit, or feed overripe things that are already starting to break down. if you don't do this, the pieces will come out the same way they go in. the same goes for grains, especially when only inferior parts of them are used - standard practice in cheap dog foods, and you can easily see the results by the giant piles the dogs leave behind. the more digestible (read usable for the body) a food is, the less waste product the body has to get rid of.

this brings me to the ingredient quality. i'm not saying that price is [i]always[/i] the right factor to gauge ingredient quality, but how do you think a company can for example sell you a 50 pound bag for $12 (24 cents per per pound) or so and still [b]make a profit[/b]?

it isn't going to be much more than poor quality corn or other grain (possibly obtained cheaply because it has been condemned from use in human food products) and meat (and bone) meal rendered from slautghterhouse leftovers, roadkill, restaurant grease and meat collected from supermarkets because it has passed its sell-by date. add to that feed grade supplements that can barely be absorbed, synthetic versions of vitamins that are cheaper to produce but less effectively utilized by the body and possibly cause buildup and toxicity.

that's just a very rough rundown, there are many, many other concerns but these are the most important ones.

[AllAmericanPUP]

And there are also a lot of concerns with feeding a RAW/BARF diet.

I know one person who switched her GSD to RAW(after studying raw for over a year) and her dog's health went downhill, his coat was bad, he had the runs, he was smelly, etc.
My friend knew a poodle breeder who lost 14 dogs to salmonella cause she fed RAW.

I just don't trust RAW.
If I had a dog with a medical problems, like skin problems and stuff and no food helped that dog, then I would probably consider RAW, but with the dogs i have now, they are all healthy, no health problems, beautiful coats, white teeth, they dont stink, they have firm poop and only poop twice a day.

[TDG]

AllAmericanPUP, it doesn't always have to be raw. there are excellent recipes out there for home cooked diets that will offer worlds of a difference in nutrition, better than any commercial food.

personally i'm not an extremist in either direction, for or against raw. my dog gets both.

what is critical for me is to avoid poor quality and outright dangerous ingredients. and i want to feed my dog appropriate food that doesn't put undue stress on his system. i want him to still be around 15 years down the road and do anything possible to keep him healthy.

[AllAmericanPUP]

and so do I.
I know there are home cooked meals for dogs and cats, but with 11 pets I just don't have the time for that at all.

My lab is 12 years old now, she has not had a single health problem her whole life, except the expected arthritis when she turned about 10. Other than arthritis she is as healthy as can be.

Is Diamond THE best food out there? Probably not.
Do a lot of people think it is poor qualtiy? Yea.

But it works for my dogs, and all of my dogs are healthy.
so, why fix what isn't broken?
I like the Diamond food and will probably always feed it to my dogs.

[TDG]

and of course you are entitled to that. nobody is debating that. :)

i just think it's never a bad thing to keep an open mind and try something different.

i'm glad i did, because it lead me from feeding my pets expensive, poor quality food (science diet) to better quality alternatives that don't cost a cent more.

i started out feeding my dog nutro natural choice after i adopted him, thinking it was a great brand and he couldn't possibly improve. until he picked up a few fleas somewhere and i had to fight a long and aggravating battle against flea allergy dermatitis within just 24 hours. switching foods made a world of a difference i had never imagined possible.

even diamond pet foods has lines that are better and some that are worse. "premium edge" and "chicken soup" being the high end ones, and "country value" being rock bottom.

[Horsefeathers!]

*sigh*

The day is going to come when I don't have 10 dogs and the 2.5 I do have then will get a natural diet. Of course, I'm also going to win the lottery and live out my life in a tropical paradise with a wait staff and...

In the meantime, my gang gets Canidae, Wellness and occasionally Solid Gold on rotation. We do include some fresh stuff, veggies, yogurt, leftovers, that sort of thing. One dog, Devin, is on a solely natural cooked diet since he has horrible allergies and tummy upset problems.

[TDG]

HF, how is devin doing? :)

[Horsefeathers!]

[quote name='TDG']HF, how is devin doing? :)[/quote]

Ya know... that sounds like a simple enough question and I don't really know how to answer it. He's doing ok-ish, if that makes sense. He's "graduated" from the oatmeal and cottage cheese to oatmeal and eggs, but I'm not sure about the eggs. His stool is ok :oops: , but he's again scratching furiously, so I don't know whether to blame the eggs, or something else in the environment that I'm unaware of.

We're just going very, very slowly with adding and taking away things. I think in a couple of days I'm going to take the eggs away and add some turkey and see how it goes. I can't wait until Fall when I can get hold of some deer. That's something I'm sure he's never had.

I've been reading and reading the Pitcairn book. I have some really lame questions I want to ask you about some of the ingredients he lists, but I'll ask later. Too much information at one time makes my head want to implode. I'm a simple kinda gal, I reckon. It's just that some of the stuff is stuff I've never heard of before, but he makes it sound like things everyone has in their cabinet. :oops:

Thanks for asking. :wink:

[TDG]

there are no lame questions! :)

shoot me an email when you're ready to talk. :D

[Aroura]

Everything in life has its risks, I find the risks of feeding kibble out wiegh the risks of feeding raw, my dogs do well on it and thats why I'm sticking to it.

Bacteria can get into dog food too, without knowing it you can accidently kill all your dogs at once while feeding what you think is right. As I said, everything comes with its risks and you have to do what you feel safest with.

[imported_Kat]

Meg gets fed on CSJ command performance which is a food specifically designed by friends of ours in Wales and my Golden Zoe gets Pal complete crunchy kibbley bits with pedigree senior as she has a dodgy tummy at times.

[Shenanigans]

I feed raw, I have for five years now. My Newfoundland has been eating it all his life. My GSD since he was five. After a day of messy detox for my GSD, he's never had a problem with the diet. Likewise with my Newf though I didn't have to switch him over.

I'm a strong believer of 'you are what you eat' so a healthy diet is tantamount to having healthy dogs. I think this can be accomplished through a high quality kibble, however for me that's a more expensive option, my dogs wouldn't enjoy it as much and I'm super happy with the results of raw and don't think I find a better diet!

Just yesterday at the dog beach, everyone was absolutely amazed to learn that my GSD is ten, they all thought he was about five since he was out there running and paddling away like a madman. Everyone loved his gait and how effortlessly he covered ground and how he compared to several other dogs who were 7-9 years of age who were very stiff and sore. Often the first question out of the owner's mouth was 'What do you feed him??' I tell them, and while they look a little perplexed, they can't argue with the results. To me, that's my payoff for researching and preparing my dogs diets.

[MajiesMom]

I feed Innova mostly and a commercial modified raw food – it’s partially cooked. I also feed home cooked meals and leftovers or even part of my dinner (I don’t know it may be the other way around because I make it to be suitable for Magic but make something I would like to eat too. Yeah I eat dog food.)
Magic gets a little bit of everything that way I figure she might get a good variety of all the good stuff, the vitamins and nutrients. I have a lot of research to do because I don’t know how to feed my dog an entire menu of balanced home cooked meals. I would like to get the Dr. Pitcairn book that TDG recommended. I really enjoy cooking for my dog though and that’s what I am aiming for in the future, feeding just home cooked meals. I’m not comfortable with feeding raw meat.
I add Prozyme and organic kelp and alfalfa to Magic’s meals.
Some of the things on the “Majie Grocery List” are: Eggs, yogurt, cottage cheese, oatmeal, honey, apples, bananas, pears, strawberries, carrots, green beans, sweet potatoes, broccoli, brown rice, little bow-tie pasta and chicken and beef. I use to feed salmon and other fish but I think Magic is allergic to fish now.
When I got Magic 2

[Baileysmom]

I am feeding mine Nutro Natural Choice lamb and rice because I wanted to avoid anything with corn in it as we were having alot of problems with allergies with Bailey..... (have since determined its prob mostly a flea allergy though) I have heard great things about Innova, Chicken soup...., and Solid Gold too but couldnt find any of them......
is my choice "bad" ?? :(

[TDG]

baileysmom, your choice isn't "bad", but for the price you are paying for the nutro, you could do much, much better.

the saddest thing about nutro is that it has less than 30% meat content, even tho the overall ingredient quality is a lot better than other mid-range foods.

where do you usually buy your food? maybe i can be of some help.

[Carolk9s]

TDG,
I've read these threads and your comments with interest.
I've been feeding my 3 dogs Bil Jac for a couple of years and with minor exception have been satisfied with the results. The exceptions are: 1. Since it is a fairly 'soft' food, it crumbles easily and at the bottom of the bin I have a huge amount of food dust. 2. Dogs stools could be a bit firmer...but since I add tasty bits to their food, can't say for sure it's the Bil Jac causing that. Tasty bits like (daily) yogurt, Missing Link, and (now and then) about 1/2 ounce of canned cat food per dog. I also add glucosamine and MSM to the older dogs food.
The older dogs are on the senior formula and Candy is on select.
Prior to switching them to Bil Jac, I had tried Canidae. They were on that for almost 3 months, right from the start they had REALLY soft stools. Jesse also had far more frequent bowel movements on Canidae. The stools did not firm up so I dropped the Canidae.
BTW, I understand about the whole "feed less with a better quality food than with a lower quality food' thing but as I feed significantly less already than the guidelines call for, I'm not looking specifically to reduce the amount I feed. For instance, Candy gets just under 1 cup a day, recommended for her weight range is 2 to 2 1/2 cups daily. Of course they do get that dollop of yogurt each morning.
I am not going to do BARF or home cooked, I cannot afford Wellness, (my eyes bugged out when I saw the price) I am considering switching to Chicken Soup For the Dog Lovers Soul.
Do you feel Chicken Soup is a higher quality food than Bil Jac? Same? Lower quality?
Thanks in advance,

[TDG]

carol, my beef with biljac specifically is that they use large amounts of salt and sweeteners in their formulations. if that wasn't the case, and they would switch to a natural method of preservation instead of using BHA, it would be a decent food. i know a lot of dogs really go for the taste and i used to use it as treats for training, until i learned more about nutrition.

yes, i do think chicken soup is way above bil jac, it is definitely a premium product whereas bil jac is just mainstream (and for that, also overpriced). you could check if you can get "premium edge" where you are as well, also a good quality food made by diamond, but usually you will find it at feed and/or farm supply stores rather than pet stores. diamond recently reformulated that line and it's even better than before.

[Baileysmom]

Thanks so much for your help TDG - I am getting the Nutro at Petsmart, II did see that my trainer(instructor) carries Canidae, but unless I am was missing something the ingredients didnt look any better than the Nutro.....
where else should I look, and what in your opinion would be a better choice for similar $ ?

[Carolk9s]

TDG,
Could you point out the sugar sources for me? I know cane molasses is one but I do not know which other ingredients add sugar. The beet pulp 'says' sugar removed, is that even effective?
One thing I am glad to see on their website, they have changed the wording for the Senior product, used to claim 'Heart Healthy Oatmeal'.
It's been reworded to 'Oatmeal - a "heart healthy" food for humans - is included in our Senior Dog Food formula for its many exceptional health benefits.'
Fresh Chicken By-Products (Organ Meat Only), Fresh Chicken, Corn, Chicken By-Product Meal, Dried Beet Pulp (sugar removed), Fresh Chicken Liver, Brewers Dried Yeast, Cane Molasses, Eggs, Salt, Sodium Propionate (a preservative), DL-Methionine, L-Lysine, Vitamin A Acetate, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Riboflavin Supplement, Niacin, Biotin, Choline Chloride, Folic Acid, Thiamine Mononitrate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Ascorbic Acid, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Menaione, sodium Bisulfate Complex, (source of Vitamin K), D-Calcium Pantothenate, Manganous Oxide, Inositol, BHA (a preservative), Iron Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Cobalt Carbonate, Potassium Iodine, Sodium Selenite.
Thanks again,

[TDG]

carol, some comments on bil jac, going down the ingredient list:

[b]Fresh Chicken By-Products (Organ Meat Only)[/b]
i have so far not been able to get a concise statement from bil jac which organs this actually includes. if it is "organ meat only", why is chicken liver listed separately further down? other issues i have with this is the fact that the daily intake of organ meat should not be more than 5% of the daily ration and that this food uses three byproduct ingredients but only one meat source. also keep in mind that fresh byproducts are high in moisture content (over 70%) and ingredients are listed by descending weight before processing.

[b]Fresh Chicken[/b]
no complaints here, except for the fact that this fresh chicken also still includes over 70% moisture. remove this moisture from the first two ingredients and i bet you are going to end up with less of it present int he food than corn or chicken byproduct meal.

[b]Corn[/b]
no complaints here, as long as good quality, uncontaminated corn is used.

[b]Chicken By-Product Meal[/b]
a suspect ingredient, especially since the manufacturer claims that the first ingredient is "organ meat only" and chicken liver is listed separately. byproducts are whatever is left over after the choice cuts for human consumption have been removed. if you also remove the nutritious organs, there isn't really much nutritious substance left that can be thrown into the rendering vat to make chicken byproduct meal from. this ingredient is a dry product with little moisture, so listed by weight you can pack quite a lot into a product compared to fresh, unrendered meat and organs.

[b]Dried Beet Pulp (sugar removed), [/b]
no complaints, beet pulp is a clean, moderately fermentable source of fiber and as long as it is used in reasonable amounts instead of just as a filler, it's not a bad ingredient.

[b]Fresh Chicken Liver[/b]
a nutritious ingredient, but see above, i am very wary about what's in a product when byproducts are listed in 3 different instances.

[b]Brewers Dried Yeast[/b]
generally a good ingredient, rich in B complex vitamins and many dogs love the taste of it. nutritional yeast is a better choice overall, but brewer's yeast is an inexpensive byproduct of the brewing industry, so it's cheap to include it.

[b]Cane Molasses[/b]
here's your sweetener, carol, and i find it alarming that it is present in higher amounts than for example eggs. there is no reasonable explanation why this should even be included in a food, other than to make it taste more appealing - which a quality food doesn't need. dogs have been known to get addicted to sweet taste, refusing to eat

[b]Eggs[/b]
always a good thing, a great source of vitamin A and protein.

[b]Salt[/b]
in most cases a completely unnecessary flavoring agent, but sometimes used for electrolyte balance if other ingredients don't contribute enough. just like in people, too much of it is bad for dogs. usually whole food sources like eggs bring enough into the product. have you ever eaten organic, free range eggs and noticed how they often have a stronger, saltier taste than factory farmed ones?

[b]Sodium Propionate (a preservative)[/b]
chemical preservative

[b]DL-Methionine[/b]
feed grade aminoacid supplement. if quality protein sources are used, supplementation is generally not necessary.

[b]L-Lysine[/b]
aminoacid supplement. if quality protein sources are used, supplementation is generally not necessary.

-----i am going to leave out the supplements unless i have a comment on them-------------
[b]Vitamin A Acetate[/b]
it worries me that the manufacturer claims that they are using gentle processing methods and include liver and eggs but still feel adding synthetic vitamin A is necessary.

[b]Menadione Sodium Bisulfate Complex (source of Vitamin K)[/b]
feed grade vitamin K3 supplement, linked to some health risks. quality foods include vitamin K1 or natural food sources.

[b]Manganous Oxide[/b]
oxide and sulfate forms of minerals are poorly absorbed in a dog's short intestinal tract.

[b]BHA (a preservative)[/b]
chemical preservative. banned from use in human foods in several countries already.

[b]Iron Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Zinc Oxide[/b]
oxide and sulfate forms of minerals are poorly absorbed in a dog's short intestinal tract.