Is Fred getting senile?

[Horsefeathers!]

? :-? ?

Fred, one of our Lhasas, seems to be having problems sleeping, or at least staying asleep.

He sleeps kenneled and has, off and on, for many years. For some reason, Fred started waking up in the early hours of the morning whining and scratching to get out, so we let him out. He does nothing but stand on the doorsteps looking around- he apparently doesn't need to potty. Now he's waking up several times a night whining and scratching to get out, but still he just stands on the doorstep looking around.

There's been no difference in routine, nothing apparent that would "upset" him. He's otherwise acting normally... not nervous, anxious, no sign of pain, he's eating fine, potty habits are normal. We even wondered if maybe he's getting hot, but I keep him buzzed short these days, and the house is kept pretty cool. He can't be hearing something because all the other dogs sleep right on through and never raise their heads to see what the fuss is... if something were going on, the rest of the gang, or at least ONE of them, would be on top of it as well.

I'm at a loss trying to rationalize it. It sure would be nice to be able to get a solid night's sleep without being rattled awake several times by a restless dog.

We've started ignoring him at night when he begins clawing and whining so that he doesn't establish a routine of needing to go out several times a night, and he does eventually settle down and go back to sleep. We're just wondering what's causing him to get so restless. He's eight years old, but he isn't ancient by any means. He still runs around and plays just fine. Surely, at eight years old, he isn't having some sort of cognitive thing going on.

Thoughts? Could he be getting senile? :-?
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[Canis erectus]

I suppose he could be getting senile, though I don't think that's usually a problem that affects sleep. Look for things like Fred seeming like he's forgotten where he is or who someone is, also balking at or forgetting well-known commands. Barking or howling at seemingly nothing would be another sign of cognitive degeneration, especially if other dogs in the vicinity don't register anything. I think that fly or shadow snapping might be another sign that your dog could be getting senile, but I'm not entirley sure about that one.

Maybe Fred has a slight ache or pain that keeps him from resting for long periods time, that might be my best guess. Perhaps it doesn't really bother him much while he's sitting/standing up and somewhat active, from my experience Lhasaa seem to be rather stoic as far as smaller dogs go.

[DogPaddle]

8 is not very old for his size of dog.
Maybe he's one of those dogs with odd sensitivities. There are dogs that can detect/predict epileptic seizures, earthquakes, high freq., radio, etc abnormalities. And its not every dog its just a handful. Who knows what he might be noticing that no one else is.

[kendalyn]

Sleep is one of the first things commonly affected in people with dementia. But I don't know if that's true for dogs. And Fred isn't that old. I doubt he's getting senile but I suppose it's possible.

Maybe he's just getting bored of the routine? If everything else is stable I wouldn't worry about it too much. It must be annoying to listen to every night though. :-?

[Crystal]

I just had to say- He does it simply to drive you crazy. I honestly believe now that dogs are out to make us looney. :lol:

[courtnek]

he could have visual or hearing problems as well. Laurel has both, and she alerts to every little sound or sight....I think they overcompensate
when they have issues like that.

maybe a vision/hearing test is in order?

:o

[MajiesMom]

Maybe he had a bad dream the first night, I think dogs learn new habits so fast and maybe now he's doing it every night for the attention? If he doesn't need anything then how about ignoring him for the next couple of nights and see if the episodes go away, if not then check out health issues as causing the behaviour.

[Horsefeathers!]

Well, we're wondering if maybe Fred is just a little... stoopit? :oops:

Lhasas are fairly well known for their longevity, so eight years old should certainly not make him an old man, but I can't help wondering if it is some cognitive thing. We did go ahead and do rough checks of his hearing and vision (what I know the vet does at the clinic) and they don't seem diminished. We can't find any source of pain or discomfort.

Another habit that's popping up lately that I didn't think of is that he's recently taken to "nursing." He likes to find a blanket, bedspread, any piece of cloth he can find laying around and roll it up in a wad and suck on it. The thing that's scary is he'll "swallow" as big a chunk as he can get in his mouth while he's nursing it, causing him to gag, but he keeps doing it.

Even though he's only eight years old, I can't help wondering if there is just some funky cognitive thing going on. We do still ignore him at night and he does eventually go back to sleep. It's just frustrating to wake up those several times to listen to him whine and claw and pace and not know why he's doing it.

He's never been the sharpest knife in the drawer (if you know what I mean)... never easily trained, always kind of seemed to have his own agenda (or "selective hearing"), always "stubborn," though the more I think of it, the more I think he might just be kind of "slow" rather than resistant or stubborn, and is getting even "slower," for what sense that makes.

Oh well, he's a sweet dog and, so far, doesn't ever seem to get confused on who we are and all that. I reckon we'll just have to learn to live with his episodes. If it continues to get worse, or he starts showing more symptoms of something being "wrong," I'll have a full work-up done, but at this point, I think he may just be our "special" dog. We've started having to Fred-proof the house... making sure no paper is lying around on a table where he can reach it since he's taken to surfing tables and eating paper (or emory boards, or plastic, or anything that he can actually get into his mouth). If we set a box down somewhere, he tries to eat that. We have to make sure the gate is not only closed, but locked since Fred has learned how to wiggle out of it and will just pace circles around the house as if he's frantically looking for something, or lost. Silly, silly boy. I think it's just an evolution of his lifelong "slowness." Am I under-reacting?

[DogPaddle]

[quote]If we set a box down somewhere, he tries to eat that.[/quote]

:lol:

I'm not sure why that strikes me as funny. Maybe its the thought of a tiny Lhasa viciously dismemebering a box. Fred does sound special, definately something to treasure.

[Horsefeathers!]

[quote name='DogPaddle'][quote]If we set a box down somewhere, he tries to eat that.[/quote]

:lol:

I'm not sure why that strikes me as funny. Maybe its the thought of a tiny Lhasa viciously dismemebering a box. Fred does sound special, definately something to treasure.[/quote]
"Dismembering" might be giving him too much credit for being on some sort of mission or having a higher goal or something. No, he just lays down by it and begins nonchalantly working it over, kind of like an old man with a wad of 'baccer (tobacco). He looks like he ought to have to spit occasionally. :lol:

We do give him old toilet paper rolls to chew on. Toys of the gods, he thinks. :roll:

[DogPaddle]

[quote]Toys of the gods, he thinks.[/quote]

Kavik thinks so too. I can bribe him to do quite a bit with an old toilet paper roll.

[courtnek]

is that OK????Geez, Laurel would DIE for one and i take them away all of the time....


:o :o :o :o :o

[Horsefeathers!]

Courtnek, toilet paper rolls and paper towel rolls are a big hit in my house with some of my dogs, and I've never had a problem with them. Several other people I know in real life and on other boards give them as well. They can be messy and feel really gross when you pick them up, but so far, they've been harmless in my house. I suppose they aren't the "healthiest" of toys, but we allow it.

If it weren't for toilet paper rolls, I think Fred would start eating my house, wall by wall. :o

[courtnek]

then I guess I'll let Lore chew...she steals them all the time. I'll jist give them as a treat then...


:o

[kittygirl109]

I feel SO stupid, but what does senile mean? :oops:

(Again, new doggie mom)

[Canis erectus]

Horsefeathers, I wouldn't worry too much if I were you. You might have a full battery of diagnostics done on Fred. I have a feeling that you wouldn't find anything abnormal, but at least if there was nothing physically wrong it might put your mind at ease in knowing there isn't something that can be treated or prevented. And if it is just the o'l gears getting a bit rusty, then you'll just need to keep a little extra care after him is all. Of course you're doing that already aren't you?

On the subject, I think we're starting to go through something similar with China. She'd be somewhere around 9 years now and starting some physical signs of slowing down. China's never really been what you's call a mental giant, but she has always been relatively well behaved. Now, over time she's becoming more obstinant and will tend to ignore any commands until they're spoken a third or fourth time. She's picked up other new habits too, like ingesting the odd sock or toy, or suddenly barking at something that doesn't seem to register with Zoey. Sometimes she'll park herself in front of Hannah or myself and howl and grumble at us, trying to get us to do god-knows-what, we haven't figured that one out yet.

Just like you said before we've scratched it up to China just getting dummerer as she gets older. It's the way things are and there's nothing to be done about it except keep an eye out for more serious behavioral or physical problems.

[DogPaddle]

Senile - Memory loss, confusion or cognative impairment associated with aging.

It's not strictly a dog thing, in fact it may be more common in people but either way its usually an old age thing.

[kittygirl109]

Thanks Dogpaddle! :D

[DogPaddle]

NP.

HF - How is Fred doing?

[JackieMaya]

Just wanted to add that I let my kids chew on empty Diet Coke cartons. It's their favorite inside toy! They don't swallow any of it. They just rip it up.

[Horsefeathers!]

DP, Fred is having a rough week. :o

He was quite sick earlier this week, and started on antibiotics. Poor guy could barely raise his head, he was so weak. He seems to be feeling much better now, only today he had a very pronounced limp on one of his front legs. Geez, it's just not his week. Not too worried about the leg at this point because it's not nearly as pronounced tonight as it was earlier this afternoon. I just figure he landed wrong somewhere and had to work it out. They do that sometimes. Heck, for that matter, so do I.

His behavior hasn't changed, though. Still whiney and goofy and... stoopit. I really do believe he is just going to be our "special" dog. :oops:

Love him, though. Hope his luck changes soon. :lol:
Another Fred (in coat) photo just because the opportunity is there. Funny thing is he LOOKS like a wise old man... who'd guess that there's absolutely nothing going on between those ears? :P


Thanks for asking, DP.
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[JackieMaya]

Poor Fred. I hope he starts feeling better! It's hell getting old!

[DogPaddle]

:lol:
Stoopit dogs can be the best dogs, they don't overanalyze simple commands. BTW he looks like a whole other dog in his long coat. I normally like the shorter cuts much better but he's such a looker that both work for him.

[BuddysMom]

My last dog Puppy was getting senile to the point that she was dangerous, wandering aimlessly, getting 'stuck' in corners, not recognizing us sometimes and even biting my husband once. Not sleeping through the night was another one of the symptoms. Oh yeah, and she just started dropping her poops anywhere, as she was walking, didn't seem to notice. I asked my vet for a prescription of Anipryl and it worked wonders for her (solved everything but the pooping, we dealt with that until she died). It was really pricey (I think $50 a month) and vet warned that it might not work but for her the difference was almost miraculous, we had our Puppy back for six great months. Here is a website with lots of good info, of course it is by the drug's maker so they are biased...

[url]http://www.cdsindogs.com/[/url]

Puppy was much older when the symptoms started, about 14.5 and she was a 40 pound mutt.