Biting puppy

[Guest Anonymous]

I have a new puppy 10 weeks old. He is a mastiff mix. We are dealing with all the typical puppy issues, but since it has been about 14 years since our last puppy, we are not sure what constitutes aggression and what is just puppy stuff. We are handling the nipping of heels and mouthing of hands. He does these things but we stop him, ignore him and give an alternate. We are using positive reinforcment almost always. My question lies with him getting mad, if that is what you call it. If I catch him with an inappropriate thing in his mouth ie. a sock, I take it away and give him something else. Sometimes when taking away something he really wants he will growl a little and act as if he wants to nip me. He is definitely trying to get the point across that he is mad at me for taking away the sock. Don't read me wrong. He is not being viscious or lunging at me, just a low short growl and possibly trying to nip my hand or leg at that time. Is this typical puppy behaviour or should I be concerned? Thanks for reading my long message and any input you may have. By the way he starts puppy classes next week. Tx again

[Daisysmom]

I am no expert, but I would put a stop to that right away. He is going to be a big boy and you need to show him you are in charge. I would give me a firm NO when he takes anything he shouldn't and replace it right away with one of HIS possessions. He should not be allowed to growl at you in my opinion.

[nadooshkinz]

I agree, remove the object that he should not be biting/chewing and close his mouth firmly and say "NO" when and if he growls, he has to learn that YOU are in charge.

[rotten_two]

i would suggest the book "Mine!" by jean donaldson. it talks about resource guarding and gives some good suggestions for changing behavior. how is he with his food? can you take it away from him with no problems? the book is not very expensive and it really does have a lot of good information. you can purchase it here [url]www.dogwise.com[/url]

[Guest Anonymous]

Rotten-two, he is great with food. I can hand feed him regular kibble and treats. When it is meal time I can pet him and get as close as I want. He has never shown any aggression at meal time. I will check that book out. Thanks

[Guest Anonymous]

Thanks to the two other replies also. I do use the technics you describe to curtail this issue. A firm no and closing his mouth with my hand and then walking away. I also replace with an appropriate chew toy.

[rotten_two]

good i am glad to hear that he is good with not guarding his food. i think that the first thing you will need to do if you get mine! and follow the guidelines is make a list of the things he guards (or doesn't necessarily want to relinquish). you will start behavior mods with very low value items and progress to the high value items. it's basically a structured trading game. you give me the sock willingly and i give you chicken, yum.

use this next portion how you choose -- it is my opinion/experience:
i would caution you about physically closing his mouth -- in general this tends to make them more mouthy. hands and/or toys touching or playing in and around the mouth tend to increase mouthy play. i think a better alternative is to ignore him anytime you think his play is inappropriate. try play again in a few minutes. also if you must take something from him always try to trade up. if he then nips you or growls you take all toys and treats and walk away -- all attention ceases until you play by my rules. again only my suggestions, keep us updated.

do post some pictures of the little booger!

[CincoandDahlilasgirl]

have u tried NILIF(nothing in life is free)?

[Mastiffmommy]

Let me say I am an owner of a wonderfull Mastiff puppy. The NILIF Program is awsome and has worked well for me. Another thing you can do is this. When my brother left us his pitbull named Atlas with us to take care of he had a bad problem with biting hands and playing rough and had no manners what so ever. When he got rough in anyway I would put him in a down position and make him roll over onto his back and I would hold him there for a few mins. He would only get up on my terms not his. Meaning he would only get up if he relaxed. This only took a few times for him to learn that I was boss and he was not. I have not had any more problems with him. This is done gently with only enough force to get him down and over. Anyways with your dog being mastiff/mix you need to get this under control asap.

[rotten_two]

gentle or not this is still alpha rolling and i don't think it is necessary.

[imported_Matty]

[url]http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?cls=2&cat=1551&articleid=163[/url]

How can I stop my puppy from nipping and biting?

A.
A puppy likes biting and chewing on almost anything that enters her world. Just as with jumping, biting between littermates is their style of play. Biting also teaches them how to use their main hunting tool, their mouth with all those teeth. Unfortunately, this often carries over into their interactions with the members of their new home. All the people, including the children, are brought into the game. Puppies have very sharp teeth, and a bite or nip can hurt and be terrifying to small children. There are several methods that are used to eliminate this behavior.
Startle response and redirection

Patricia McConnell, Ph.D., an animal behaviorist and adjunct professor at the University of Wisconsin, suggests a method which startles the biting puppy. Just as the puppy bites down, make a sudden, abrupt, high-pitched and loud 'AWRP' sound. This would be the same sound that a littermate would make if bitten by the puppy. The sound should be so sudden and sharp that the puppy is immediately startled and stops the behavior. If done correctly, you will be surprised at how instantly the pup removes his mouth and looks bewildered. At that point, quickly substitute a toy, such as a ball, the puppy can chew on. This redirects the puppy's biting behavior to the ball. This way the puppy learns it is no fun at all biting you, but chewing on the toy is. You may need to do this multiple times if the puppy gets excited in play. If the 'AWRPs' make the puppy more excited, try another approach.

Stop the action

Dr. McConnell also suggests that, in some cases, just immediately (and dramatically) leave the room when the puppy bites. This is certainly a method children can use. After multiple times, the puppy will learn that every time she bites she loses her playmate, and that is no fun at all.

Important prevention measures!

No matter what method you use, do not entice the puppy to bite you. Games like tug-of-war and waving your hands in front of the puppy instead of using toys may encourage the puppy to bite.

[rotten_two]

ah yes pat mcconnell i like her very much!

[Guest Anonymous]

I have been having the same problems

My puppy is about 6 weeks old. I have only had him for one week. Wow, he picks up quickly though. He is nearly house trained and he is doing pretty well with the sit. I have been training him to sit before walking through doors--as I have done with all my other dogs--and he has been sitting sans command recently.

My big problem so far is bite inhibition. At this age, I understand that this is one of the most important lessons to teach. I know he is young, but the boy can bite. I have read "Protection Dogs" and researched just about every site on the web about bite inhibition in working dogs. I do plan to do protection work with him, so I do not want to bring him to the point where he won't bite, but he is more than just mouthy.

Here is what I have tried and what has resulted (granted, it has only been a week):

1) I have said "OUCH" very loudly and walked away. I then ignored him for several minutes before returning and introducing a toy that is permissable for him to bite. While I am ignoring him, he usually spends his time chewing on the couch or on the bottom of my bed. At that time I would simply put a nylabone or rawhide in his mouth and continue ignoring him. When I returned to play, he would nearly instantly bite my hands again.

2) Another source recommended scruffing him by the back of the neck until he relaxed. While I did not want to utilize any form of corporal corrections unless absolutely necessary, this little aligator was just biting harder and harder. When I scruff him, he yelps of course and then settles. When I release him, he will bark and sometimes try to bite my hand again--as though I am playing with him.

3) I have also read that some trainers do not play tug-of-war with their pups. I do not see any merit in this technique, so I have not tried it.

I do not want to take this any further and be incorrect in my use of corrections, so I plan to take him to a trainer ASAP for suggestions. Do you have any suggestions for the interim?

He is very attached already. He follows me everywhere--with few exceptions. He crates when I tell him to. He rarely whines while crated. He, however, is extremely confident, in my opinion, for such a young dog. No person or dog frightens him--he will just walk right up and say hello. He is not food aggressive with myself or anyone else. Noises don't startle him and none of his bites are out of fear--they seem more out of play/aggression. I am under the impression that dominance does not begin to show itself this young, but if I did not know that, I would think that he was trying to challenge my authority as alpha. Most of his biting is at the ankles or hands.

I have tried to include all of the information I though you may need. Please feel free to contact me if you have any questions.

Thank you in advance for all your help,

Joseph Weissglass

[rotten_two]

can i ask what circumstances occurred so that you have a pup away from mom at 5 weeks? maybe this is a litter you bred and you still have mom or maybe you rescued? i am trying to give the benefit of the doubt here.
what type of dog do you have that you are so eager to do bite work? i think right now you would be better served making sure he is socialized properly with people and dogs (after he is vaccinated properly). you need to enroll in a puppy kindergarten a positive methods puppy kindergarten (no alpha rolls, no choke or pinch collars, etc).

the mere fact that your pup keeps biting even after the dreadful alpha rolling you have tried is an indication that the method just plain sucks and you are not properly communicating your message! honestly tho and i don't mean to be rude but if you pursue bite work with this dog you will likely see much more aversive techniques and that is sad!

[Guest Anonymous]

I think you may have misread a couple of things here:

I will start, well, at the beginning:

I got the pup so young because the breeder noticed that he was developing faster than the other pups. He, and one other pup, were already starting to boss the other pups around. He did not want them to get used to their puppy pack, so he recommended that I take the pup early. I researched and talked with some professionals and they said that this was not unreasonable as long as the pup was completely weaned.

Also, I am in no way "eager to do bite work." When, and if, I do protection training with my dog, it will not be until 18 months or so. My decision to do so, if I decide to do so, will be based on a professional trainer's evaluation of his temperament, nerves, and drive. He has had his first round of shots and he starts puppy manners classes in one week.

Further, I have NEVER alpha rolled him. Pups do not even understand what an alpha roll is! I know that. I am not really sure where you got that--maybe from one of the posts above, that I did not right--but I have never done that with any canine, be it pup or dog.

Reread the techniques I have described. The most physical I have become was a scruff by the back of the neck. I can count on one hand the number of times I have even done that--each and every time was a response to him pursuing a bite after I had given him the "ehhh ehhh!" or "NO." He was excalating the play/aggression and, like his mother would have done, I explained to him that was not acceptable.

Thanks for your interest in helping out. Please keep the comments coming!!!

Joseph

[rotten_two]

pardon me. i didn't misread tho i did mistype and for that i apologize. however i tend to frown upon scruffing as well. for some reason i just got alpha roll stuck in my head.

as for separating the pups so not to get used to their pack -- well i can't say i agree and i think some of your problem with biting may be a direct result. puppies learn bite inhibition from littermates first and foremost. also there will be status issues within a litter and i don't think that is a good enough reason for premature separation -- even if weaned there is still much to be learned. truth is we can't come close to emulating what mom would do -- she would be much faster on the draw and her punishment would be severe and accurate enough that she would only need say it once maybe twice. what types of professionals have you spoken with about when to separate? vets? breeders? trainers? just curious.

what professional trainer will you have evaluate your dog? schutzhund? french ring sport? police dog training? other?

here is my suggestion for nipping -- do as you have done before with yiping and then walk away only when you walk away tether him to something where he cannot self reward (destructive chewing) while you are ignoring him. put his leash around the door knob on the other side of a door -- so that it feeds between the door jam and the door (don't want him to get away) close the door and then leave. come back try again. or you could try to give him a time out area (confined area with baby gate -- no toys no people no nothing fun) give him a minute in there. then try again. also remember that you can focus on the positive -- reward him for good behavior -- nice play no teeth or for chewing on his own toys. we often forget to reward when they are quietly chewing but we scream and yell (attention) when they do something displeasing.

good luck!

puppy manners class is a step in a very good direction specifically if it employs positive reinforcement.

[Guest Anonymous]

no apologies necessary.

i spoke with a trainer and the veterinarian...i really hope that they didnt tell me something that was wrong! that makes good sense about bite inhibition from littermates...

I have lined up "puppy preschool" with a professional shutzhund trainer in the area. obviously, I will only be doing manners, etc at the moment, but I wanted to have someone who was faimiliar with the ultimate goal.

that is a good idea about the door thing. as soon as I leave him, he oftens starts chewing. I will try that.

also, I am very positive when it comes to training. I always praise for chewing on the correct toys, playing tug of war without biting my hands, etc. oh, and the trainer I will be working with emphasizes positive training exclusively.

thanks again for all the help!!

Joseph

[rotten_two]

you have mentioned tug of war a couple times. here is my take on tug of war. playing tug is an excellent way to utilize natural instincts and tire out a dog if you follow some very structured rules.

rule1: humans initiate play. puppies do not.
if pup is harassing you by shoving a toy at you or bringing a toy to you simply ignore him until you can initiate the game.

rule2: puppies may not put teeth on the toy until i say so.
i use the cue "tug it" to indicate that it is ok for you to play now. i also make pups sit and wait before they may tug it.

rule3: if at any point during the game puppy teeth make contact (any contact at all) with human skin the game ends immediately and the toy is put away.

rule4: puppies will relinquish the toy promptly when asked.
you can use the word "give" or "drop" or "out" or whatever you choose but pup must surrender toy when told. you have to work on give outside of tug games so that pup learns what give means. otherwise your pup might think give means tug harder.

rule5: if pup gets overly stimulated or obnoxious the games ends promptly and we play again another time.

playing tug with a dog that complies with these rules is great fun. it does a heck of a lot to tire them not to mention you too. other good games that utilize their natural instincts include "find it" you hide treats or toys or yourself (in obvious places at first) and let them "hunt." remember both mental and physical exercise will benefit your pup. fetch is another good one (i know your dog is not a retriever but other dogs can fetch).

keep us posted on how preschool goes.

[Guest Anonymous]

hey guys,

sorry it has been so long--i have been out of town.

well, the biting thing is still an ongoing battle. I feel like he is slowly getting better though. Simply scolding him and then ignoring him hasnt been working. He will then come up to you and bite your feet, chew on something, etc.

What I have been doing is this:

When he bites, I give him the "ehh ehh" noise. He usually lets go of his current bite, but it then turns into a game for him. That usually gets him barking and then he will bite more. I will introduce a proper toy for chewing. He will do one of two things: chew on that toy for a while and then come back after my hands and feet or he will chew for a while and then wander off in search of something that he is not supposed to chew.

Why does he not like the toys he has to chew on? He has 4 nylabones, several raw hide bones, two plush toys, etc. but he would rather chew on my shoes or my boxers!!

Anyway, I have been scolding him for biting me. When he bites me a second time after being scolded, I put him in time out. Time out is the bathroom. I put him in there, shut the door and leave him for 1-2 minutes. When he comes out, he is very hang-doggish and wants to curl up in my lap. I always let him.

Does this sound reaonable to you all??

[imported_Kat]

Puppies learn the rules of biting best when taught by another dog who is older. With wild dogs/wild cats , young animals learn the strength of their bite by their opponent reprimanding them usually by a clout around the nose and a growl, followed by the adult walking away. I strongly believe that this works well also when implemented by a human. When people call me and ask how do they stop biting, I tell them what I have just written. I then tell them to smartly tap the pups nose as soon as they bite and to really give a strong "No" or "urghh" type noise to simulate growling almsot. After they do this I tell them to walk away and if necessary to close the door on the pup. Leave it a few mins go back and repeat again if the pup bites again. The pup gets no positive interaction or praise or nothing nice until it shows no biting. Simple as that.

[Guest Anonymous]

Kat,

I had also tried the thump on the nose or under the chin. It just gets him more rowled up! When he bites, it is always followed by a loud "NO," "ehhh ehhh," or "OUCH." For a day or so, I tried the growling thing. He will respond, but it usually after 30-45 seconds of "growling" and making rigid eye contact. He is a stubborn boy!

When he is in his mood, any contact around the face spurs him to futher mouthiness. As loud as I can get, it doesn't phase him the slightest.

I don't know if this is just a strong-willed pup with solid nerves or what, but he doesn't react to loud noises or contact as though it is a punishment. I hope that this is something that is just a pain in the butt at the moment and will later be a positive attribute that will result in a dog that is not easily startled.

Any more recommendations are GLADLY accepted!

Oh, and Rott, his name is Ares. Here are some pics:



[img]http://community.webshots.com/photo/276123134/280080719QXhqSb[/img]

[img]http://community.webshots.com/photo/276123134/280080719QXhqSb[/img]

Thanks again,
Joseph

[rotten_two]

ah ares greek god of war! i have gaia mother of earth! cool! can't see the pics tho!

ok so here's your next step. when you say eh eh and he releases your hand from his mouth reward him quickly with something very good like chicken. just trying to take a different approach. he needs to learn what is the game (take your mouth off me) and how to win (spit out my hand or foot or whatever). practice just a few minutes at a time with rewards for taking his teeth off you. then maybe you can convince him it is more lucrative for him to mind his teeth. you can still give timeouts when he is particularly snappy or obnoxious. be consistent don't let him get away with some biting but not other. keep rewarding when he makes the right choice. set him up to win -- when he is not in a snappy playful mood try to put your hand in his mouth and praise/treat like crazy if he wants no part of it.

does ares nip and bite when you try to give treats?

[Guest Anonymous]

rott,

good advice. seems like you may have had a little mouthing issue with your pups too, huh? its good to have someone else with a working breed to lend me their ear. Tell me a little bit about your rotts!

The praise things is a good idea. I am going to cook up a little chicken this afternoon and try that!

i have been working on him with VERY light OB--sit and recall with praise and rewards only. As soon as he realizes that I have treats, he is a perfect gentleman. On the brighter side of things, his sit isnt quite what I would call automatic, but for a 7 week old pup, its pretty darn close. Recall is coming along well too.

My next big hurdle is getting my girlfriend to realize that , when he bites her, she cant withdraw from him. He is getting a lot less mouthy on me, but still goes after her.

ok, lets try these pics again,

[img]http://www.shutterfly.com/view/picture_dt.jsp?state=67b0de21bb653022058c&idx=64[/img]

[img]http://www.shutterfly.com/view/picture_dt.jsp?state=67b0de21bb652a250586&idx=85[/img]

[img]http://www.shutterfly.com/view/picture_dt.jsp?state=67b0de21bb65245b84cf&idx=89[/img]

[img]http://www.shutterfly.com/view/picture_dt.jsp?state=67b0de21bb65267484e1&idx=99[/img]

hopefully, these work.

Joseph

[Guest Anonymous]

ok, grrrr, maybe this?

[img]http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b5dc02b3127cce9023c69a72a600000016109AZs2bhu3cE[/img]

[Guest Anonymous]

awesome! ok, here are some more....

[img]http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b5dc02b3127cce9023d2e3f3e500000016109AZs2bhu3cE[/img]

[img]http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b5dc02b3127cce9023d0ccf3cb00000016109AZs2bhu3cE[/img]