Pitbull image

[Guest Anonymous]

I don't usually let my dog 'play' with other dogs. She is used to seeing other dogs, and mostly just watches them go by. Sometimes, they are lunging at the ends of their leashes to 'get in her face', but she tends to ignore this, as I will pick her up and walk away if someone who isn't controlling their dog goes by. I will also pick her up if there are loose dogs nearby. If she snaps just once, for whatever reason, and people see that, they will react negatively, and forget that dog aggression is not people aggression. Pit bulls are 'people dogs' not 'dog dogs'. They may enjoy playing with other dogs, but it is a genetic trait to be dominant, and I think they'd rather be surrounded by people who are playing with them then dogs.

I just take her for walks and let her meet every human she can, and I do allow her to 'meet' new dogs occasionally, but the minute she starts trying to be dominant or rough, I pull her away and keep walking. On leash interaction I find acceptable, because it gives you that much more control over your dog.

[kendalyn]

[quote]My dog is not mean, and she has never started a fight....I guess you didn't read my point about how OTHER dogs have tried starting fights with her[/quote]

It sounds like she is starting fights, but you just don't see it. I can easily see how your dog body slamming another (which you blissfully see as being playful) pisses off the other dog who then retaliates. So who really started the fight?

Anyway, it doesn't matter in the long run who started it because your dog will be blamed.

[gooeydog]

[quote name='pitbulletta']Gooeydog..first of all, I never mentioned anywhere about my dog biting any other dog.. I said she's bossy and likes to slam them into the ground..[/quote]
Never said she had bitten another dog, only that not all dogs are going to tolerate rude, pushy behavior, and that if/when one retaliates, you very well may have a fight result.

[quote]My dog is not mean, and she has never started a fight....I guess you didn't read my point about how OTHER dogs have tried starting fights with her and she could be easily controlled by me while the other dogs didn't even listen to their owners... I know my own dog...[/quote]
Also never described her as "mean". Only said that rude behavior (yes, slamming other dogs down is "rude" dog behavior) is often a trigger for fights to break out. Every dog owner thinks they know their dog well, at least until it decides (in true dog nature) to do something the owner feels to be unpredictable. Like I said, my dog has been called out of every fight she's ever gotten into (only a handful), but that doesn't mean that she will always do so, nor will I expect her to, for the one time I count on that, I will unprepared for the worst case scenario that she doesn't.

[quote]and I also know that by keeping a pit bull away from other dogs and not trying to teach it to socialize properly is the worst mistake you can make...how are people supposed to breed dog related aggression out of this breed if they're just concerned about keeping their dog away from others?[/quote]
There is a happy medium between keeping pit bulls away from other dogs and allowing pit bulls to run willy nilly with other dogs. I think most responsible pit bull owners like to keep towards the happy medium of keeping their dogs on leash and under control around other strange dogs, and possibly allowing carefully supervised play with dogs that they know to be compatible with their own.

[quote]And gooeydog...how does my attitude give pit bulls a bad name?[/quote]
I didn't say the above, only posted once last night, but you appear to have the "won't happen to me because I've trained my dog" view on dog aggression and dog fights. You have to understand that dogs are dogs, and training can only do so much against instinct, which can make itself known at any time, resulting in unprecidented behavior.

[quote]So far I haven't had any problems, nobody has made any rude comments to me, and in fact..I've been congratulated on my dog's behavior and all the hard work and effort I put into her.[/quote]
All the hard work you've put into her will mean little if one day she realizes she doesn't like a particular dog, or vice versa, and you have a fight erupt in public, which you cannot call your dog out of. Then people will be thinking about how your pit bull had always seemed well trained and friendly, up until that day... reads just like the media myth of them "turning" on people.

I realize that you may find this offensive again, but it is really not intended that way, just seems so in my writing.

[Guest Anonymous]

Oh wow.....
pitbulletta.... Please, please stop taking your dog to the off leash dogpark. You said yourself this is your first pit bull. Have you researched the breed at all?
I would like to know the age of your dog. I saw you were asked but if you posted it, I musta skimmed right over it.
Something you need to know.... Even if your dog does not show aggression towards other dogs (which she does, you just dont recognize it ie. throwing dogs to the ground) you should still not allow her to run free with other dogs. Especially if she is flipping them over to show her dominance. Also, if another dog starts the fight, your dog will probably kill it or injure it bad enough it will need to be put down. Do you really think that is fair to the other dog owners? It certainly isnt fair to the pit bull breeds that they are getting blamed for something you did/allowed. I dont think you understand, know, or realize what you have in your hands with that pit bull. You have a dog that somewhere in her bloodline is probably some fighting ancestory. You HAVE to think it will show up sooner or later, even if it never does.
Do you know how to break a dog fight correctly? Without harming either dog? Do you think if a fight breaks out you can stop it before the other dog gets hurt?
there are way too many pit owners who think they can allow their dogs to run with other dogs. This is not an option for pit bull owners. If you want a dog you can take to the park, get a different breed. You will only end up hurting the pit bull breeds.
Also, anyone owning a pit bull should own a breaking stick and carry it with them everywhere they go, no exceptions!

Oh, and someone said something about people getting bit by breaking up dog fights. Im sure it has happened (and does) BUT I have broken up several dog fights and have never even been scratched. Why? Not only do I know the proper way to break dogs apart but the APBTs realize the difference between a dog and a human. People who dont know how to break up a fight shouldnt even try....

[Cairn6]

Are you the same Hmmm that was over at Petfinder? Just curious I know they gave you a hard time if it's you. It's just not an average name.

[Guest Anonymous]

No, I havent ever been to pet finder... I think there is someone posting on other boards as me.... Its not though! I only post here and at a couple of private, password protected game dog boards.

[Guest Anonymous]

*whistles* wowzers, don't ever let me be on crutches again and spend all day doing homework :o Look what I've missed!

I didn't read EVERY Post, a couple I just skimmed through, but here are some points that have stuck to me...

[quote name='kendalyn']I agree with her when she says that responsible breeders should be breeding dog-dog aggression out of pit bulls. What's wrong with that? Wouldn't getting rid of that particular trait only serve to help the pit bull image? [/quote]

I say I HAVE to agree. The American Pit Bull Terrier is going DOWN HILL and will continue to do so until people start breeding aggression out of it. I understand people like Hmmm who want to preserve the breed, but breeders who are selling to average joes should be working towards breeding aggression (any kind) OUT of the breed, unless the person buying the pup knows 100% how to take care of it and what to do with it ect. ect.
This is the reason I lean towards the AmStaff, while I know they are not completely non aggressive, and will take AGES before that is possible, but they are known as LESS aggressive, and many AmStaff breeders are trying to breed the aggression out. Unfortantly many of them are just breeding for a perdy dog too :-?

[quote name='pitbulletta']How are there no responsible pit bull owners in a dog park? I realize her attitude was negative, hence I am teaching her to behave properly and she is getting much better..in other words she doesn't do it anymore...I don't understand how that is not being responsible.... [/quote]

PBL, I have to say that people were a bit rude to you :-? I understand your "amatureness" (shhh, I'm passing english now so I can say that's a word :lol: :lol: :wink: ), because I'm in the same boat, in fact lesser since I won't be able to own a bully for another year, if not longer!! I understand it's all a learning prossess, and people should have given you facts first instead of saying you are the problem with the breed's bad rep :-?
Although I DO agree, your dog should NOT be going to off leash parks, no If's And's or BUTS about it! Your dog IS showing dominance, which can be concidered as a form of aggression, therefore that must be taken into acount and extra percausions taken. You should learn how to read your dog better, because from what I hear, any fights that "other dogs have started" I hate to say, but were probably actually started by YOUR dog! You just don't understand (as Stanely Coren calls it) "Doggish". I HIGHLY suggest the book "How to Speak Dog" by Stanely Coren. I had been plugging away at it for years, reading it between books and when I felt interested in the subject, and FINALLY finished it last night. It is an AWSOME book at understanding your dog's body language, reactions, and WHY he reacts that way, and I HIGHLY suggest it for you!! :)
Although I have to give you a pat on the back for teaching your dog that the dominance is bad, and that you have seen improvements, I still stick with that you should NOT be taking her to offleash parks!
Even try taking her on walks around the time you know your neighbors walk their dogs (unless they walk offleash). I did that with my highly human/dog aggressive dog when I had her, and we walked at a safe distance, and only on the roads I KNEW people kept their dogs ON leash, and it helped her to handle herself a bit better around these situations, although was still quite a struggle :-? Small improvments DID happen. While your dog is not highly aggressive like Hazel was, it's better to PREVENT that from happening by stopping this dominance NOW, before it gets out of hand. Although Hazel's aggression was not caused by dominance I have to point out, my Lab + pup I have now IS. He is VERY dominant, and food aggressive (a dominant thing) and actually growled at me tonight when I tried to pick his cooked egg off the floor and put it back in his dish. He snarled and i said "NO" and pushed him away then when I knew he was held away picked it up and got him to sit before each bite I hand fed him. It's little things like that that help control a dominant dog, and a dominant dog towards OTHER dogs needs to be controled in little steps like that as well. Your dog may NEVER be able to be at an offleash park, but at least you will be able to have her on leash with other dogs without worrying about domiance issues and fights :wink:

Sorry I rambled for some time :oops:

Hmmmm, you think you could PM me with info on breaking up a dog fight and a breaking stick and such? If you have the time of course :wink: I'd love to hear it a bit more. I've broken up a few dog fights, probably about 5 or 6, and was only bitten ONCE (and it was my fault, I aSSumed Hazel was behaving well and went to pet another dog, she got jelous [and was WAY over protective over me] and lunged towards that dog, who in deffending herself, caught my thumb in her mouth :-? but I broke up the fight quickly and wasn't actually bitten in the proccess of breaking it up). I honestly can't remember how I've broken up any of them though, was just quick thinking, and it was about two years ago since the last fight I'd broken up. :-? Thanks![/quote]

[Guest Anonymous]

*Doesn't even bother reading Gooeydogs or Hmm's posts*...the conversation on my dog park post ended on page five or six..its over and what you're probably telling me is a repeat....so..... yup I won't be going to a dog park with her anymore and I appreciate alot of the helpful links you guys provided me with.. and to answer your question..my dog will be 3 in Aug.

We can change the topic now since this is becoming quite a drag...I'm getting sick of people slamming me... I got the point and understood clearly... thanx.

And hazelnutmeg... who were you speaking to in regards to the breaking stick? Sorry but I honestly don't know lol. :)

[Guest Anonymous]

pitbullette, why even post anything if you arent going to read the advice of seasoned pit owners? thats pretty childish. and I doubt we have repeated THAT much.... Go back and read it. It may help you out.
Hazel... No proble...I send that to ya next time Im on... Im hittin the sack....

[Guest Anonymous]

Hazlenutmeg, just to let you know...my dog didn't actually start the fight first.. I just walked into the park with her and she was barely off the leash...she went up to a dog and they started sniffing one another..wagging tails and play bowing...then the other dog I mentioned just ran up to her and started biting her...I'm not that bad with reading dog body language...and I"m definately sure my dog DID NOT start the fight...so please stop assuming...I did train dogs for a year at the humane society and although I may not know as much as some of you do about pit bulls, I know enough when it comes to dogs....that's why I am admitting that maybe taking her to the park is not such a good idea after all..even though like I said, there was a positive change in my dog....

I got a pittie...and I'll do some more reading and research... but thanks again for the assumption on the fight... :-?

To Hmmm: ..if you go back a few posts..you'll notice I said thanks for the advice and websites over 10 times...and I actually read a few of them already...but for crying out loud know when to stop.... I got the point..I don't need to be told over and over again that what I'm doing is wrong..I UNDERSTOOD....... :evil:

[Guest Anonymous]

PBL I didn't mean to be repetitve, I was offering ADVICE! I also didn't mean to ASSume, but was going off the information you had provided for us. You didn't tell us what exactlly happend, just judging by your dog's behavior, the information YOU gave us. I'm sorry for missunderstandings, but I still suggest that book, and to anyone really, it's SUCH an awsome book! You can deffently never have too much info on understanding your dog :D
Oh, and I was asking Hmmmm about the breaking stick :wink:

Hmmmm - Thanks! I look forward to the info! :)

[mydogroxy]

PBL:

you've been quite lucky that your dog is so tolerant with other dogs. my own pit is highly aggressive (despite being socialized with other dogs as a pup). there are a few things that i think you might be missing (sorry if any of this is repetitive):

1. you cannot train aggression out of a dog. you can control it, but an aggressive dog is an aggressive dog.
2. just because your dog hasn't reacted negatively now, doesn't mean it never will.

taking your dog to a dog park is a big chance with pit bulls. example: if a golden retriever attacked your dog, the golden is likely to be injured pretty badly. despite the fact that the golden started it, people are going to see a PIT BULL fighting america's favorite breed. even though your dog is in no way at fault people will automatically place blame on her. you could be facing having to give your dog up for something easily avoidable.

of course there's no assurance that the situation would go like that, but it's highly likely.

please do some research and more reading and stop taking your dog to the dog park.

[Guest Anonymous]

[quote]To Hmmm: ..if you go back a few posts..you'll notice I said thanks for the advice and websites over 10 times...and I actually read a few of them already...but for crying out loud know when to stop.... I got the point..I don't need to be told over and over again that what I'm doing is wrong..I UNDERSTOOD....... [/quote]
Umm, NO, I wont stop. People that have pit bulls without knowing about them and thinking their dog will be okay around other dogs are the people giving the breed a bad name. Also, that was my first post on the subject and if I want to add my opinion to all the others, I will. ESPECIALLY when it is something that will hurt my breed.
Something you need to understand... It doesnt matter what dog starts the fight. The pit bull will be the one to end it and it wont be pretty. SO, if that happens, your dog will be put down, you will probably be sued AND... another notch against the pit bull.
Your dog is showinig signs of animal aggression, you just arent recognizing it. I find that very sad because of what can happen. YOU need to take the precautions that come with owning a pit bull (of any breed) but you arent.
What are you going to do if your dog does get into a fight? Its obvious you dont know how to break it up. I can see it now.... :(
You just dont even know.

mydogroxy...Nice post!

[__crazy_canine__]

Although I dont want to "slam" you either Pitbulletta, I completely agree with what most of the people here have said about your situation. And Im glad Hmmmm said she wouldnt stop. We all just want you to see that even if its not your dog thats starts it, that doesnt change the fact that people will look negatively at the APBT!

Please just listen to what we have to say, I understand youre trying to defend your little girl but PLEASE take the things everyones said into consideration.

I have been working with dogs for almost a year now (not to mention I was born and raised in a home with many animals including a dog) and I know that if youre dog ran into another female who was also dominant you would have a BIG issue! Please read this PBL because this is important, two alpha females DO NOT mix well at all!!!

~*

[cheekymunkee]

I think she IS listening & seems to be very willing to learn more about the breed. I thank her for that!

Debby

[__crazy_canine__]

[quote name='cheekymunkee']I think she IS listening & seems to be very willing to learn more about the breed. I thank her for that!

Debby[/quote]

She is listening to SOME people but she said...

[quote name='pitbulletta']*Doesn't even bother reading Gooeydogs or Hmm's posts*[/quote]

thats obvious thats shes not listening to everyone. Although dont get me wrong, I can understand you not wanting to because youre tired of hearing the same thing over and over. So Im going to stop "repeating"everything, even if its for a purpose, and let things move on.

[Shenanigans]

I think the point is that even if other dogs are being rude, the fact of the matter is, you have a powerhouse breed bred for dogfighting. A breed that is just on the tip of everyone's tongues to ban, you have to dots your i's and cross your t's to perfection.

Much like a scenthound who turns off everything when sniffing or a sighthound who takes off like a bat out of hell after a squirril no matter how loudly you scream, or a sheltie nipping at the heels of running kids your dog has been bred to fight and it only takes a split second before it seriously injures another dog. This is why responsible sighthound owners make it routine to exercise their dogs inside fences, and scenthound owners on long lines, because instinct and selectively bred parts of instinct is far stronger and faster than any of us could read. It might be so that your dog never ever attacks another in it's lifetime, but is it a risk you're willing to take? Especially when there is so much at stake?

[cheekymunkee]

[quote]Much like a scenthound who turns off everything when sniffing or a sighthound who takes off like a bat out of h*** after a squirril no matter how loudly you scream, or a sheltie nipping at the heels of running kids your dog has been bred to fight and it only takes a split second before it seriously injures another dog. This is why responsible sighthound owners make it routine to exercise their dogs inside fences, and scenthound owners on long lines, because instinct and selectively bred parts of instinct is far stronger and faster than any of us could read. It might be so that your dog never ever attacks another in it's lifetime, but is it a risk you're willing to take? Especially when there is so much at stake?[/quote]

Very, very, very good points!

Debby

[Sarahstaff]

You know, it's not that you guys are wrong, and I was going to jump on Pitbulletta too, but she then [i]said[/i] that she would stop taking her dog to dog parks, and that she would read the sites posted. So I feel that continuing to belabor the point is just going to get her back up, and make her tune everything else out. I think the message will be lost in the (over) delivery.

JMO. And my personal knowledge of myself, that if I say I'm going to do something, and then umpteen people tell me to do it, I get contrary and decide maybe I won't do it after all. I can't be the only person affected that way!

[courtnek]

[quote]Much like a scenthound who turns off everything when sniffing or a sighthound who takes off like a bat out of h*** after a squirril no matter how loudly you scream, or a sheltie nipping at the heels of running kids your dog has been bred to fight and it only takes a split second before it seriously injures another dog. This is why responsible sighthound owners make it routine to exercise their dogs inside fences, and scenthound owners on long lines, because instinct and selectively bred parts of instinct is far stronger and faster than any of us could read. It might be so that your dog never ever attacks another in it's lifetime, but is it a risk you're willing to take? Especially when there is so much at stake?[/quote]

I can attest to this, having both a foxhound and a Lab. Some instinct is hard to train out. I am glad that our Pit friend has decided to not take the
dogs to dog parks, not because I dont like them, but because I was worried something really bad was going to happen.

:angel:

[Guest Anonymous]

Thank you SARAH!.. I repeated over and over that I would not take my dog to the dog park and that I would read the sites (mind you I already looked over the whole badrap site)..in other words..I'm agreeing with you people...holy geez...what a way to educate eh?...but people still keep egging themselves on...lol I don't think they're listening to me anymore..just themselves. Example:

"Umm, NO, I wont stop. People that have pit bulls without knowing about them and thinking their dog will be okay around other dogs are the people giving the breed a bad name."

I don't think my dog will [u][b]be ok[/b][/u]..that's why I said I AM NOT TAKING HER TO THE DOG PARK ANYMORE..for the 932849234923842934.4th time! WHOoooWeee..
and stop saying I'm giving the breed a bad name..you're really starting to tick me off with these retaliations! I'm willing to learn from these sorts of mistakes so give me some credit..you're not being very positive you know... :-? You've giving "expert dog owners" a bad name with your negativity towards me.

Anyways...this topic is dead...forget it....we've all said what we had to say..whether it was 30 or 40 times over.....

[Guest Anonymous]

[quote]if you have any suggestions on where I can go to let my dog around other animals...besides a dog park...let me know... I wouldn't mind checking into it...its just that i don't want my dog to be isolated away from other dogs...[/quote]
Yeah, you said you werent going to take her to the dog park anymore but followed asking where you could take her to interact with other dogs.
Im not trying to be rude to you, and although you claim everyone has been rude to you, you are the one who has been rather rude. I came in late on this one and like I said, I will give my opinion. I have been around APBTs for years (raising, breeding, researching, etc...), and I may not be an expert but I know a lot about the breed. When someone comes on stating they can train the dog aggression out of the pit bull, Im going to let them know they are wrong. When someone says their dog has been interacting well with other dogs, Im gonna let them know what can happen and that the chance for it too shouldnt even be given.
You can be rude and childish all you want but if I dont like something you are doing, especially with my breed, I will let you know.
My negativity to you is for good reason, and I am not giving anyone a bad name by informing you of what you are doing wrong. Regardless of how many people have already told you.
I do think its great you are now doing the research (although you should have done it before even considering to bet a pit bull) and I hope you continue doing it.

[Guest Anonymous]

I was referring to a place where alot of people walk their dogs on leash and they can go up to one another and meet..not an offleash dog park..

and yes, I do find you to be rude...but that's besides the point.. :-?

[Guest Anonymous]

Hmmm.. you've been posting negative replies against me not only regarding this matter, but in other areas where I have posted as well..I don't know what your problem with me is, maybe its because I'm new or maybe its because I'm not PERFECT like yourself, but you really need to chill out..I haven't been rude to people here, I've been accepting their opinions with an open mind ONLY if they haven't been snobby like yourself...and those "RUDE" people I was mentioning were pretty much just you...you've been overposting the same thing over and over about how I'm wrong and how I need to stop being childish..how am I being childish for Christ's sakes?..when other people have even mentioned that they think I've gotten the point...and that by saying the same thing over and over again to someone won't help in educating them..you're pretty lousy when it comes to being helpful in my opinion..I much rather listen to friendlier folks like Sasha, Sarah..Debby..etc..they also know what they're talking about but they don't act like they're god's gift to pit bulls, and they definately encourage me...

"YOUR BREED"...? Sorry but its nice to know you've never made mistakes before and that you're the perfect expert...in that case I don't really want advice from people like you..who are constantly going to point out the fact that I made a mistake and build up on that to make themselves look like something special....

You know what? I don't even need to be arguing with you because no matter what anybody says, you're still going to believe that you're perfect.

[Guest Anonymous]

PBL, no one but you will know where in your town you can take your dog where others are on lead. Start watching for it though, usualy there's a specific time when people walk their dogs, and usually they're on lead. Start going for walks (without your dogs, I know it's hard but just do it :lol: ) and watch for this. Look around your town for places where you can bring your dog where people keep their dogs onlead.

[quote name='pitbulletta']
"YOUR BREED"...? Sorry but its nice to know you've never made mistakes before and that you're the perfect expert...in that case I don't really want advice from people like you..who are constantly going to point out the fact that I made a mistake and build up on that to make themselves look like something special....

You know what? I don't even need to be arguing with you because no matter what anybody says, you're still going to believe that you're perfect.[/quote]

I'm sorry PBL, I actualy really like you ya know that? But THAT was uncalled for. Hmmmm knows HER BREED [i]really [/i]well! She straight out said "I am not an expert" but see in MY eyes she is! She's ALWAYS provided me with really good information while I've been doing my research, and I respect her a LOT.
The ABPT is YOUR breed to you know? Just like the Border Collie and AmStaff are MY breeds, they are other peoples breeds too. When you chose a breed that really goes to your heart and your passionate about, that is concidered YOUR breed.

Hmmmm HONESTLY has the breed's best interest at heart. She's been fighting BSL laws for some time and trying to educate as many pit bull owners and potential pit bull owners as she can for quite some time now. She really doesn't HAVE to sit here and argue with you, but she'd be arguing with no one if you weren't arguing back wouldn't you say? She's trying to help. Hmmmm is a VERY straight forward person, and hearing about a potential dent being put in HER BREED's reputation gets her very angered, just like it does with most of everyone else on Dogo. Although you are right, the topic should be stopped on, or at least moved to a different thread, or handled in private if you are the only two arguing about it still. I some how don't understand WHY it is still going on, but Hmmmm came in the topic late so put her two cents in. Unfortantly that got yer Pan'ies in a twist (sorry for the phrasing) because your mind had been made to do more research and NOT take your dog to offlead parks. I think the one thing that REALLY got Hmmmm angered though was that you didn't do this reasearch BEFORE getting the breed. I've been doing mine for some time now, since probably around last September I think, and I won't be getting my bully for a year or more yet! That's just all the more time to research and I'm glad for that! I DON'T want to jump into something I can't handle and am not equiped with knoweldge for. You probably should have done the same, and while I believe you've done your homework, I do however, also believe you didn't do it enough and on the right subjects such as the aggression and behavior of a Pit Bull.

Just some food for thought...