Pitbull image

[StarFox]

Like DAL said this post is about the the image of pitbulls in society and the media. NOT about any guests or who here fights or not. We are all well aware of who does what and why, we don't need you or anyone else for that matter to point out what has already been said 100 times before.

If you don't have any comments to make about the original post then just keep it shut.

[Guest Anonymous]

Exactly Mel! well said

[Guest Anonymous]

This is so stupid :roll:

This ad is useless, and I should inform the company here... this ad is about an energy BAR, NOT a drink :lol: :lol: Because of their bad image of a pit bull, the people here reading it haven't even gotten across what the people are trying to market :lol: :lol:

All joking aside though, I agree that it is really bad that their adding to the pit bull's reputation :-? The argument about aggression is irrelivent, and quite frankly I think that [size=1]grimmy[/size] Primmy here should be banned. She appears to come here only to start crap. And YES, I have seen other posts where she's not just arguing, but in fact all in all I can only think of ONE... Ooh, one, in how long she's been lurking here? It's obvious many people don't like her. Just because she doesn't agree with us doesn't mean she should be bantered or banned, but I DO think that she should be banned because she is violating one of the rules of Dogo, and that is she only instigates fights. She might be respected a bit more if she had better knowledge behind what she talks about, but it's fairly obvious that she doesn't, and she appears to be here only to bash pit bulls. I'm sorry, but that's just my honest opinion.

[Horsefeathers!]

I respectfully disagree. I respect that she has gumption enough to post her opinions even though they are very unpopular. If she only chooses to engage in controversial topics rather than the fluff n' stuff, I'm ok with that. I'm only trying to be objective, but I really would hate to start banning people because they have unpopular opinions and only participate in hot topics. While it may really p*ss people off, it also makes people think. Though her opinions are unpopular, I've yet to see her be blatantly disrespectful. To be totally honest, I think she's made some valid points. Also, I have to shamelessly admit that I realllllllllly like spirited debate. I just imagine how boring it would be if we all shared the same views. I don't think that having unpopular opinions is the same as being argumentative.

Maybe I haven't seen everything y'all have. :oops:

[Guest Anonymous]

[quote name='cheekymunkee']Primrose, unless you are willing to tell us what breed of dog you own, do not down any other breeds. If you are not up for the scrutiny, don't dish it out. And please, do not insult the intelligence of the members of this board by saying "we would all know who you are" if you reveal the breed like you have clamined on Patty's. Personally, I don't giva a d*** who you are and I doubt any one else here does either. It is obvious to all of us that you have never met a pitbull OR a breeder.




Debby[/quote]

Hey, Debby,

I am not interested in telling you what breed(s) I own, sorry about that.
While I certainly take you at your word that you aren't interested in knowing who I am, other people demonstrably are. (To the extent of offering a cash reward, as I mentioned before, but don't get all excited since it was a pretty chintzy one) And (as you have demonstrated by your reference to Patty's) the internet is kind of a seamless web, so even in the unlikely event that even the known dogfighters who hang out here on this board couldn't care less who I am, if my identity were revealed here, it would be revealed everywhere.

As to "downing" the breed(s) of dog I own, please do it. Of course, you only WANT to do it because you believe that you are being insulted because I notice how badly the pit bull community has failed pit bulls and what a miserable mess the breed is in. So you think that you will insult me if you were to "down" my breed(s) and that will somehow hurt my feelings or something. But, surprise! Unlike you, I recognize that a breed is best served by having people who not only tell the truth about the negative qualities of the breed, but actually go to great pains to EMPHASIZE those qualities, to ensure that nobody will get the breed for the wrong reasons or without being aware of what they are getting into. So "down" my breeds all you want and I won't be in the least bit offended and will probably join in. If you dissuade somebody from getting one, they shouldn't have gotten one anyway. Since I am not trying to make money off my breed(s), it won't hurt me a bit.

I won't tell you what breed(s) I own, however, because I suspect (gee, I wonder why?) that you would try to post negative stuff about them simply [b]because[/b] I own them, and that wouldn't contribute to helping people figure out the truth, would it?

primrose

[Guest Anonymous]

[quote name='Horsefeathers!']I respectfully disagree. I respect that she has gumption enough to post her opinions even though they are very unpopular. If she only chooses to engage in controversial topics rather than the fluff n' stuff, I'm ok with that. I'm only trying to be objective, but I really would hate to start banning people because they have unpopular opinions and only participate in hot topics. While it may really p*ss people off, it also makes people think. Though her opinions are unpopular, I've yet to see her be blatantly disrespectful. To be totally honest, I think she's made some valid points. Also, I have to shamelessly admit that I realllllllllly like spirited debate. I just imagine how boring it would be if we all shared the same views. I don't think that having unpopular opinions is the same as being argumentative.

Maybe I haven't seen everything y'all have. :oops:[/quote]

Yes HF, I see your point there, and to some degree, I actually agree with you. But to me she is completely untrustworthy. Saying you won't tell someone the breeds of your dogs because you dont' want someone finding out your identity is SO stupid!! It is about IMPOSSIBLE to track someone down just because they say "hey, I own a lab" especially if it's a mutt. You know how many breeds/breed mixes are in this world? :o It's mind boggling, and you can deffently not find their owners based on the breed, if that were the case we wouldn't have so many dogs in shelters now would we? :-?

[courtnek]

ok my take. We ALL know that Pit's CAN be dog aggressive - not all are, but the potential is there. we Also ALL know that Pit's have a lousy reputation as being people aggressive, because of various different reasons...bad breeding, mix-breeding, bad or non socialization, etc.

If they wanted to show a "high energy bar", why not use a Border Collie doing agility? Or a Foxhound chasing Fox? That takes a HELL of a lot more energy than standing there snarling at someone....they are trying to send a subliminal message here...not only are you going to have "more energy", but you will be TOUGHER and harder to beat as well. Advertising deliberately sends subliminal messages all the time, in pictures, in scene cuts, in well-chosen wording. Otherwise, why would all the clothing commercials show women with bodies to die for? Men's deoderants all go on the arms of beautifully muscled guys without an ounce of fat, and perfect hair? They're selling the picture, and the idea behind the picture.
"If I buy that, I'll look like that/act like that/be like that..." It's an old ploy, but people still fall for it.

:roll: :roll: :roll: :drinking:

[Horsefeathers!]

HNM, I'll admit that it does sound odd, but some people are just more private than others for reasons that are totally valid to them. Even though I may think it's odd, I still don't have a problem with it if someone chooses not to disclose what kinds of dogs they have. It just seems to me that the problem (not with you specifically, so don't think I'm singling you out, ok?) is that people are annoyed with her. That's fine to be annoyed, but I just don't think it's worth banning over, at least when someone is contributing rather than just the blatant trolling ("GSD's are stoopit and should all die!! You stink and yer dog is oogly!!"). I annoy the h*ll out of a lot of people around here, but PUHLEEZE don't get rid of me. 8)

[Guest Anonymous]

Well, I haven't been through this 100 times. Explain to me please, how you reconcile dog-fighting with dog-loving? You may not want to hear from me, but believe me anybody who comes from the outside to check out this site is going to be as shocked as I was. Except of course, those involved in dog-fighting.

[Guest Anonymous]

[quote name='Horsefeathers!']HNM, I'll admit that it does sound odd, but some people are just more private than others for reasons that are totally valid to them. Even though I may think it's odd, I still don't have a problem with it if someone chooses not to disclose what kinds of dogs they have. It just seems to me that the problem (not with you specifically, so don't think I'm singling you out, ok?) is that people are annoyed with her. That's fine to be annoyed, but I just don't think it's worth banning over, at least when someone is contributing rather than just the blatant trolling ("GSD's are stoopit and should all die!! You stink and yer dog is oogly!!"). I annoy the h*ll out of a lot of people around here, but PUHLEEZE don't get rid of me. 8)[/quote]

Alright, I withrdawl my Banning vote... but I can say I'm not going to respect her any :-? Whatever reasons she has, it makes me really suspicious, like newfiemom said... and you've shon a bit of light, but I stated as well I dont' want her banned just because she's arguing, I want her banned because that's ALL she does, and I really don't trust her.

but ANYWHO! Back to the original topic!! :D :wink:

[Guest Anonymous]

I wasn't accusing you of dog-fighting. But I simply don't understand how you can tolerate and defend the views of someone who fights dogs. Especially when you are so willing to excoriate someone who is simply stating that obvious--that the problem isn't with the advertisers, but with the people who are promoting the image (and reality) of the pit-bull as a fighting dog to begin with. I agree with Primrose that your time would be better spent writing letters to the owners of this website about their ads from irresponsible breeders who are doing far more harm to the breed than a mere candy wrapper can do.

[gooeydog]

[quote]NONE of the pit bull breeders I have talked to say that they consider the worthless trait of dog aggression (unless it is absolutely uncontrollable) a problem when considering which dogs to breed.[/quote]
You say you've talked to pit bull breeders, yet many of the things you say would indicate that you have little (if any) personal experience with the breed. I've seen elsewhere that you are near Baltimore, and if that's the case, and you were looking to see more of what the average (considering that all our dogs are rescues, of no outstanding background) pit bull really is (rather than going off of hearsay and media sensationalism), I'd be more than willing to have you meet Haley, our little social butterfly of an APBT. At least then you would have some personal experience to back up your claims, though I don't know that you would find much in the way of "horrible, terrible aggression" you tout as being typical of the breed.

[Guest Anonymous]

[quote name='gooeydog'][quote]NONE of the pit bull breeders I have talked to say that they consider the worthless trait of dog aggression (unless it is absolutely uncontrollable) a problem when considering which dogs to breed.[/quote]
You say you've talked to pit bull breeders, yet many of the things you say would indicate that you have little (if any) personal experience with the breed. I've seen elsewhere that you are near Baltimore, and if that's the case, and you were looking to see more of what the average (considering that all our dogs are rescues, of no outstanding background) pit bull really is (rather than going off of hearsay and media sensationalism), I'd be more than willing to have you meet Haley, our little social butterfly of an APBT. At least then you would have some personal experience to back up your claims, though I don't know that you would find much in the way of "horrible, terrible aggression" you tout as being typical of the breed.[/quote]

Actually, I am not particularly close to Baltimore, so I will have to pass on your kind offer to meet your dog although I am sure she is lovely. But that is okay, because I have met and interacted with lots and lots of pit bulls. Some have been quite mild. Some I haven't trusted worth spit. Often the owners themselves have been honest enough to say that they should not be trusted, particularly with other dogs.

Do you disagree that most knowledgable pit bull people say "never trust a pit bull not to fight?" Do you think that is bad advice or good advice? Do you disagree that most knowledgable pit bull people advise not leaving a pit bull unsupervised with any other dog? Do you think that is bad advice or good advice?

Please don't put quotes around stuff you claim I said unless you can actually provide a quote where I said that "horrible terrible aggression" is "typical of" pit bulls. Since you can't, I would be most grateful if you wouldn't quote me saying stuff I never said.

Thanks!

primrose

[cheekymunkee]

[quote name='Anonymous'][quote name='cheekymunkee']Primrose, unless you are willing to tell us what breed of dog you own, do not down any other breeds. If you are not up for the scrutiny, don't dish it out. And please, do not insult the intelligence of the members of this board by saying "we would all know who you are" if you reveal the breed like you have clamined on Patty's. Personally, I don't giva a d*** who you are and I doubt any one else here does either. It is obvious to all of us that you have never met a pitbull OR a breeder.




Debby[/quote]

Hey, Debby,

I am not interested in telling you what breed(s) I own, sorry about that.
While I certainly take you at your word that you aren't interested in knowing who I am, other people demonstrably are. (To the extent of offering a cash reward, as I mentioned before, but don't get all excited since it was a pretty chintzy one) And (as you have demonstrated by your reference to Patty's) the internet is kind of a seamless web, so even in the unlikely event that even the known dogfighters who hang out here on this board couldn't care less who I am, if my identity were revealed here, it would be revealed everywhere.

As to "downing" the breed(s) of dog I own, please do it. Of course, you only WANT to do it because you believe that you are being insulted because I notice how badly the pit bull community has failed pit bulls and what a miserable mess the breed is in. So you think that you will insult me if you were to "down" my breed(s) and that will somehow hurt my feelings or something. But, surprise! Unlike you, I recognize that a breed is best served by having people who not only tell the truth about the negative qualities of the breed, but actually go to great pains to EMPHASIZE those qualities, to ensure that nobody will get the breed for the wrong reasons or without being aware of what they are getting into. So "down" my breeds all you want and I won't be in the least bit offended and will probably join in. If you dissuade somebody from getting one, they shouldn't have gotten one anyway. Since I am not trying to make money off my breed(s), it won't hurt me a bit.

I won't tell you what breed(s) I own, however, because I suspect (gee, I wonder why?) that you would try to post negative stuff about them simply [b]because[/b] I own them, and that wouldn't contribute to helping people figure out the truth, would it?

primrose[/quote]

A little paranoid there are you Primmy? Funny how you seem to know how I will react to your breed of choice. See, unlike YOU I don't talk down about dog breeds. I do not believe in bad breeds. I do however believe in bad owners & bad dogs. I also believe that if you can't take a little criticism or scrutiny you have no business dishing it out Since you refuse to acknowledge your breed of dog I can only assume that either you have no idea what breed they are or you do not own dogs at all and therefore should be ignored.

By the way, nothing you said in your post made much sense, how can I "down" your breed when you refuse to reveal it?? How are YOU best serving YOUR breed by telling the truth about it when you refuse to acknowledge it?

Debby

[cheekymunkee]

[quote]If they wanted to show a "high energy bar", why not use a Border Collie doing agility? Or a Foxhound chasing Fox? That takes a h*** of a lot more energy than standing there snarling at someone.[/quote]

So true!! Right now one of my "high energy" dogs is using ALL of his energy to keep my bed from flying around the room & the other is using ALL of hers to make sure no crumbs from my daughters sandwich hit the floor. :roll:

Debby

[bk_blue]

I can't really see the problem here. People are posting their (however unpopular) opinions and i think that is excellent. There is nothing worse than a board where free speech is seen as akin to treason. However if you set yourself up to be crucified it's no bother to me. 'Primorse' and her mythical dog breeds (and the cash payment!?) is a good eg. I don't care what breed of dog she has but if she is going to continually mention her refusal to mention it then hell it's fair game for people to jump on it. Especially when one isn't a member so it can be argued in private.

As for the murky origins of this board, that is something I have no control over. Personally I would be happy to move the board to another location, but if I were to get rid of everything in my life because aspects of its production or its place of origin and its practices offended me I wouldn't be drinking Coke, eating meat, driving a car, or buying anything made in most countries around the world.

PS the ad is ridiculous and should be pulled. :P

[pLaurent]

[quote]As to "downing" the breed(s) of dog I own, please do it. [/quote]
Primmy, I"m sure you know that wombats are not dogs, but marsupials. They are not a breed, but a species. Please try and make sense.

And you have used the words, "horribly/terribly aggressive" to describe pit bulls, and done it often. You have also used the words 'MURDEROUSLY aggressive" although we did our best to explain to you that one dog killing another is not classified as "murder." Do you disagree?

You have said these things on Patty's Dog Park, a board you found so boring that you posted an average of 6 times a day since last fall. :o
Maybe it became boring after you drove away all the regular posters with your obsessive and pedantic rants against pit bulls and your pro-BSL stance? Or with your name calling ("lunatics, liars and idiots")? Possible?

And I'm sure the pit bull owners (or Pit bull Pep Squad, as you so charmingly call us)here would be interested in your statement [b]"The majority of people think pit bull owners are sociopathic losers[/b]".

Did you ever find the source of that statistic, or is it still "merely anecdotal."? O.k. I'll stop "whining" now.[/b]

[cheekymunkee]

[quote]And I'm sure the pit bull owners (or Pit bull Pep Squad, as you so charmingly call us)here would be interested in your statement "The majority of people think pit bull owners are sociopathic losers[/quote]

Oh yes, I am VERY interested in that statement!! So , you think that because you are NOT a pit bull owner you somehow think that you are "better" or possibly of a higher class than those of us who are?? I can assure you Primmy, that is NOT the case.

Oh and just to let you know, there is no such thing as "murder" in the animal world.

Debby

[kendalyn]

A lot of primrose's arguments have been cogent and well stated. She's also said some things that we would all agree with. Here's one:

[quote]Do you disagree that most knowledgable pit bull people say "never trust a pit bull not to fight?" [/quote]

I agree with her when she says that responsible breeders should be breeding dog-dog aggression out of pit bulls. What's wrong with that? Wouldn't getting rid of that particular trait only serve to help the pit bull image?

[quote]dog aggression is the least of the pit bull's problems.[/quote]

I disagree with this. Not many people, including the media, understand the difference between dog-dog and dog-people aggression. Someone sees a pit bull snarling at another dog and they think it's a mean dog. Period. They don't understand the difference and they're NOT going to go to any lengths to find out either. I think if it's possible to start breeding pits that do not tend to be dog aggressive, it would be a great thing.

And I also agree that the picture is bad and does negatively portray the breed.

[kendalyn]

[quote name='pLaurent']Primmy, I"m sure you know that wombats are not dogs, but marsupials. They are not a breed, but a species. Please try and make sense.
[/quote]

I'm guessing this comes from something you have discussed with Primrose on another forum? Because it doesn't make any sense. :-?

[cheekymunkee]

[quote]I'm guessing this comes from something you have discussed with Primrose on another forum? Because it doesn't make any sense[/quote]

When referring to her breed, Primrose calls them Wombats. :roll:

Debby

[pLaurent]

[quote]Not many people, including the media, understand the difference between dog-dog and dog-people aggression[/quote]

You are so right, and unfortunately, Primrose is one of those people who equates dog aggression with human aggression and has stated this many times.

I, for one, would be happy to see extreme aggression bred out of of pit bulls. It would make it so much easier to adopt them out. Of course, many dogs and many breeds do tend towards dog aggression, not just pit bulls.

The biggest problem lies with irresponsible and unknowledgeable owners who take pit bulls to dog parks, or allow them outside off leash when other dogs are around. Many others truly believe "it's all in how you raise them".
My own pit bull is not aggressive, but she is intolerant of some dogs, and I make sure I keep her, and other dogs, safe by keeping her on leash when outside and training her well.

I'm sorry the "wombat" comment confused you. Primrose refuses to tell anyone what kind of dog she has (although she expects everyone else to answer her every question) because if we knew the breed, then we could somehow figure out her home address and go there. :roll: Whatever....[/code]

[Guest Anonymous]

[quote name='pLaurent']

The biggest problem lies with irresponsible and unknowledgeable owners who take pit bulls to dog parks, or allow them outside off leash when other dogs are around. Many others truly believe "it's all in how you raise them".
[/quote]


I agree with that statement to some extent. But the problem is, alot of people who think they know alot about pit bulls really don't. To be honest, that goes for alot of people that come to dogomania as well.. :P So I guess the question is, how do you know if you have the pit bull smarts or not?

I myself go to dog parks with my pit bull, and although she doesn't attack other dogs and try to rip them apart... she is dominant and likes to slam em' to the ground.... alot of people have told me that one day she is going to rip some other dog to shreds, blah blah blah.. but that hasn't discouraged me from taking her in there..because I have noticed that due to the socialization with other dogs that I have been providing her with, she has actually become calmer and not such a bossy girl..:)

Not to mention, there was one time when SHE was actually attacked by another dog (Rottweiller...spelling?)...and guess who got blamed? ME...because I owned the pit bull. What's even funnier is that I didn't need a breaking stick or anything..as soon as I yelled at her to get off she left the other dog alone while it tried to go after her even after that..

I guess my point with that was how most people have a terrible view of the breed and its up to responsible and caring pit bull owners to portray them in a positive way, not as growling scary beasts like that damn power drink ad...give me a break.

Anyways..that was a little off topic...but hey...its 1:46am here :o

[gooeydog]

[quote name='primorse...']Actually, I am not particularly close to Baltimore, so I will have to pass on your kind offer to meet your dog although I am sure she is lovely. But that is okay, because I have met and interacted with lots and lots of pit bulls. Some have been quite mild. Some I haven't trusted worth spit. Often the owners themselves have been honest enough to say that they should not be trusted, particularly with other dogs. [/quote]
Oops, guess I was remembering someone else. Glad too to hear that you have had the opportunity to interact with some real dogs.

[quote]
Do you disagree that most knowledgable pit bull people say "never trust a pit bull not to fight?" Do you think that is bad advice or good advice? Do you disagree that most knowledgable pit bull people advise not leaving a pit bull unsupervised with any other dog? Do you think that is bad advice or good advice?[/quote]
I never said otherwise, but since you're so interested in my opinion (I'm flattered, truly), I think both the above are good advice in the case of [i]any[/i] dog, of any breed.

[gooeydog]

[quote]I myself go to dog parks with my pit bull, and although she doesn't attack other dogs and try to rip them apart... she is dominant and likes to slam em' to the ground[/quote]
Aside from the fact that you're allowing your dog to exhibit blatant bad manners purely in the name of "dominance", you seem not to realize that what you describe is a classic fight starter... the one time another dog decides it doesn't appreciate you dog acting that way and retaliates, you WILL have a fight on your hands. If you're lucky, it'll never happen. If not, you, your dog, and every other pit bull and PB owner will pay for it, so keep that in mind as you revel in the fact that you've defied the "general rule" concerning pit bulls and dogparks.

[quote]because I have noticed that due to the socialization with other dogs that I have been providing her with[/quote]
This is not really in line with the rest of the post, but brought to mind a common misconception that "socialization" is allowing dogs to interact directly and freely with other dogs/people. Socialization is simply the act of exposing a dog to things, and allowing them to become acustomed to them, in whatever capacity they are comfortable with.

[quote]ME...because I owned the pit bull.[/quote]
That's the way it goes, which is why pit bull owners must be hyper-responsible and vigilant with their dogs.

[quote]What's even funnier is that I didn't need a breaking stick or anything..as soon as I yelled at her to get off she left the other dog alone while it tried to go after her even after that.. [/quote]
To this I will say that a dog that can be called out of a fight is not likely fighting too seriously (this goes for all breeds, but bull breeds expecially). And, you cannot draw conclusions on how a dog will react every time they encounter a situation based on one single episode. Our older PB has gotten into a few minor (accidental, and was on leash at the time of each, except one in our house) fights, and has been called out of each one, but I have no doubt that if she were involved in a more serious fight, she would not call out. It would be nice to think that, but nieve.