Animal Disection in School

[StarFox]

Ok I was thinking about this last night when trying to go to bed (I know, perty morbit thouhts right before bed :oops: ). I thought about when I took Biology in High School and we had to disect animals and bugs. And I asked myself, If I had the chance now to disect a baby pig would I do it, knowing what I know now about animals and animal abuse.

When I took Bio in H.S we disected worms, crickets and a baby pig. At our school we had the option of actually doing the disection, having our partner disect it or doing a "virtual" disection with a computer program. I choose to disect them myself. I have always loves science and Biology so at the time I had no real problems with it. But knowing now that thousands if not millions of bugs, frogs, baby pigs die so that students all across the country can fufill there science requierment, it bothers me a little.

I did find the disections very interesting and fun but not many other people in the class did. I went to an all girls h.s and 75% of my class mates screamed and acted very childish when disecting the pig. And how many of thoes students will actually be intrested in science or major in science after h.s? Was the death of all thoes pigs neccessary to fufill a science requierment? I'm sure 90% of thoes kids in that class did not benifit any way by disection.

So should disection of animals be done in college and not in h.s? Or should virtual discetion replace the disection of real animals?

I'd especally like opinions from students in H.S who have done disection in the last few years or are about to do it.

[bk_blue]

I have dissected rats at high school, and also an ox heart, but back then (grades 7 and 8) we were fairly immature and didn't really think much about stuff other than it was fun to squirt intestinal contents at each other and play mini tennis with the heart. :roll: :oops: :lol: To be honest I can barely remember what the whole point of dissection was, so it wasn't worth it for me, but others in my class who've gone on in the science world may disagree.
For my sister's uni course she has to dissect snails, cockroaches and earthworms. She is fine with that. I don't know... somehow mammals seem a little different than cutting up a snail. Do they feel pain? Can we really judge that? We know animals like cats and dogs do... how about worms?? Is it ethical to dissect *any* animal? I suppose that if a computer can do it then we should do dissection virtually. How effective it is versus actually physically touching your object of dissection, I wouldn't know. Certainly one should have the choice.

[kendalyn]

We did a pig, a rabbit and a cat in high school. The rabbit and cat were in advanced biology class, so people weren't required to take that class, but everyone was required to take the standard bio where we dissected the pig. I thought it was a really valuable experience. The diagrams of organs and their placement in a book don't even come close to the real thing. There was no alternative in our school. Everyone was required to do it.

[quote]And how many of thoes students will actually be intrested in science or major in science after h.s?[/quote]

I think it is still a valuable experience even if a student does not go on to a science related career. Any learning experience is valuable I think and in high school kids don't really know what they will eventually become. Why not experience as much as possible before making a decision?

In a year or so I will be in PA school where we dissect a human cadavar. I don't know of a better way to understand human anatomy than by seeing it for yourself. Although I think people usually do feel a little different about human cadavar dissection than animal because the humans obviously were not killed soley for the purpose of dissection.

[Guest Mutts4Me]

In high school, we were supposed to dissect a baby pig, but something was wrong with them, so I was spared that experience.

But my Biology teacher also taught an advanced bio class, and a group of us would often go to his room during study hour... then during the section where his other class was dissecting cats, we would have to sit there while a few dead cats were cut up around the room. Very disturbing. Especially since they named them.

I don't think it should be a requirement. If someone has no interest in cutting up a dead animal, they shouldn't have to.

[science_doc]

I think if we want to keep producing quality scientists in this country these types of advanced biology classes with dissections should always be an option. That being said, I think that everyone should be able to choose between a hands on experience and a virtual one. All the animals used in "teaching" experiments make me sad.....there are some things that computers can and can't do, but when ever it's practical I think that we should use a computer to teach. I can say that there is no substitute for really learning anatomy, but unless it's going your profession I'm not sure you need the hands on experience.

[Guest Anonymous]

*Deleted*

[kendalyn]

[quote]The cats were roadkill that our science teacher would find that weren't TOO bad off and he would send them to the local deer processing plant to have the skin/hair removed and cleaned up a little bit (none were smushed or crunched or anything).
[/quote]

:lol: This made me laugh! Your science teacher sounds very dedicated to go to such lengths to provide a learning experience for his students! I can't think of many teachers that would do that.

[abker17]

So far I've had to disect an earthworm, frog, squid (and we fried it and ate it to!!! :lol: Actually it was quite good... :roll: :wink: ) cricket, and I think that's it...
I agree with Science_Doc on this one... :)


[quote](grades 7 and 8 we were fairly immature and didn't really think much about stuff other than it was fun to squirt intestinal contents at each other and play mini tennis with the heart[/quote].

*sigh* Yes, unforunatly I am surronded by kids like this everyday. :( :roll: :wink: :lol:

[courtnek]

I balked...they wanted us to disect frogs, while they were still alive. We were to put a needle through their neck, so that they would feel nothing, and disect them alive. now remember this was 30 years ago, and the rules have changed since then (fortunately) but I wouldnt do it. They threatened
to fail me, my mom went to the press... and I didnt have to do it.

nowadays watching the heart beat and the organs interact can be done with computer simulations...

[KP]

I did everything I could to get out of doing these things. I just can't do it. Not my thing. I don't feel that it really serves a purpous to make people who have no interest in to to do it. If people want to take the class fine...let them take it and enjoy. Why should I have to? I never got anything out of it other than an upset stomach, bad memories and nasty smelling clothes. I learned nothing from it and had a bad time doing it. I personally could care less about an insect or worms internal organs and disecting a cat or pig would traumatize me. Not my thing...and not a lot of people's thing and I don't feel they should be forced to do it.

Classes taken in college all the way as long as its not a mandatory class.

[StarFox]

[quote name='KP']
Classes taken in college all the way as long as its not a mandatory class.[/quote]

I totally agree with you on this KP. I realy do think some of H.S students are too immature to understand disection. I think if you can learn anatomy threw a video or computer program then that should be the way to do it. But I also think there should be an option for H.S students to disect if they have a desire for science/biology.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not totaly against disection. In fact I enjoyed the learning experience and volenteered to disect on weekends for the schools open house. And realy the worm creeped me out more then anything. But the grasshoppers I did enjoy (i'm so weird I know). The disection of Rats, Cats and Rabbits seems kind of wrong to me. Especally for H.S students. I don't think there is anything wrong with disection in college if your major requires it or if your interested, but cats and rabbits for H.S students seems like a bit much.

[kendalyn]

[quote]they wanted us to disect frogs, while they were still alive. We were to put a needle through their neck, so that they would feel nothing, and disect them alive[/quote]

We did this in my physiology class in college. I thought it was pretty cool. We dropped all kinds of medications on the frog's heart and watched the effects. The frog's heart practically jumped right out of it's chest when we dropped caffeine on it.

I really didn't enjoy pithing the frog but I did enjoy the experiment in general. I would not make anybody pith a frog though. It's a lot different than dissecting something that is already dead and if you do it wrong you're going to hurt the frog. I volunteered because no one else in the group would do it. It's not something I want to do again though. I would not let high school students do it either. They are way too immature.

[Duke_3]

I think its crule :evil: Theres not a chance im going to disect anything, not a flea, not a tick, not a worm and NOT a baby pig. Baby pigs are one of my FAVORITE creatures on teh PLANTE, after dogs and cats pigs all the way. Farming is in my jeans(my moms a ranch girl, grew up on a farm) and Pigs are awsoem. And theres no way im disectiong one.

In our highschoool you disect pigs, frogs, eyeballs, heart and sum else worms prolly, and did you know the frogs are alive? theyre are jsut on sleeing medicatioN!!!!!!

I say its incredibly mean i love frogs to.


Im not doing it not a single soul in the world can make me do it, I dont care if i flunk im not disecting an animal, ESPECALLY pigs, as i stated i love them.

I mean would you disect your own baby? So why would you disect a pigs baby? Its crule.

I say its realy mane and i refuse to do it thats only my opinion of course

[imported_Kat]

This is very debatable. Personally I am fine with dissecting animals in general as I have done countless post mortems at the surgery. In school we dissected a few beasties and of course uni we have had a fair few to dissect. Now there was one time in uni in my 2nd year in animal physiology class where we were to be involved in a rather gruseome experiment that involved examining the brain of frogs and mice while the animal was stunned. The guy we had was Dr Laming who I persnally think enjoys being vindictive.. Well that particular day the wee frogs were hopping about in their wee water bath and the mice were chewing at the bars. I couldn't help but feel sorry for them and looked at my friend Andrew. We opened the cages and tilted them slightly to give them a headstart when laming was next door in the wee lab, and they went free :D He came back and he is a calm guy who would remind you of Prof Snape in harry potter really and shows little emotion. He was furious as he crawled on his hands and knees trying to scoop up frogs and mice. Not one of the class attempted to help him either and that day is still brought up in conversations :wink: