Rottiegirl Posted March 6, 2003 Share Posted March 6, 2003 :D or :cry:? do you think throw chains are an effective traing tool? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rottiegirl Posted March 6, 2003 Author Share Posted March 6, 2003 I think they work for stubborn dogs, but if you throw one at a small dog you could hurt it. I am not familiar with the Koelher methods of traing is there a site or a book that includes what it is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogPaddle Posted March 6, 2003 Share Posted March 6, 2003 This training method involves throwing chains at a dog?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mouseatthebusstop Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 I have never heard of it before sound bad :evil: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rottiegirl Posted March 7, 2003 Author Share Posted March 7, 2003 yes its used for the recall, you let your dog see other dogs, be petted by people, start sniffing something, ect then you call your dog if he dosent come you need to yank on the leash and pull the dog back in and at the very same time throw the chain it hits the dog and the dog learns fast that its better to come to you then get hit with the cahins that fall from the sky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prairie_Gurl Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 I've never heard of throwing chains at dogs before, but I hate it already!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nancy B Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 I don't like throw chains and I sure don't like Koelher. As far as I'm concerned, dog training has come a long way since then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 I guess this methode would be a lot like Paul Loeb's throw Methode, only harsher. Loeb uses a rolled up pair of socks, or an magazine for larger breeds instead. He explains in his book "Smarter Than You Think" that it is much like the dog gets a "tap" on the shoulder which you Magicly did, and so they think you have this power to reach across the room even and tap the dog, so they come back to you :confused1: While this isn't as harsh as throwing a CHAIN at the dog, I'm not too sure if I agree with it. Although I LOVED his book "Smarter Than You Think" I basiclly skipped through the Throwing parts. The rest of it was awsome, and if you plan on using his methodes in this book, but NOT the throwing methode (like me) you have to learn to develope your own into it, because the book is mainly based around this methode. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 Yup, I personally like the games ones! :D I taught Hazel at first onlead, using lots of "HAZEL! HEY SWEETIE PIE! COME HER GIRL! COME ON!!!!" jumping up and down... but she came! Then I would back up while saying this, then run a bit back... then to the FUN stuff! Like Hide-and-Go-Seak! This is a GREAT game to play with your dog, teaching them the drive to come to you really well! How to Play?: First get someone to hold onto your dog while you go and hide. Call the dog, and have the friend let the dog go. Keep calling the dog until he/she finds you. Then try having your friend hide. I find this tones of fun! It's one of Hazel's fave games!!! :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtnek Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 I am COMPLETELY against negative reinforcement training!!!!!!!! GGRRRRR It's equivalent to beating a child for misbehaving - all he learns is to stay away from you when he's done something wrong. Dogs arent stupid, they will figure out that that chain hit them after you threw it.... an example of why this doesnt usually work - my ex used to roll up newspapers and magazines and smack Freebee with them when she was bad. What did she learn? To become aggressive and nasty when she sees anyone roll up a newpaper or a magazine..... It makes recycling around here difficult.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogPaddle Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 Well gee, if a chain works so well, why not a shoe or a wrench or a brick? If you want to give them a "tap on the shoulder" use a squirt gun. If you want the dog to think your magic give a verbal correction in the instant before it does something wrong - Kavik thinks I'm a spooky Godlike being because I know what he's thinkgin. if I tell him to stay and he starts thinking about getting up his body language changes and I can correct prior to him actually standing up, he thinks he's being corrected for [i]thinking [/i]about disobeying. If you want the dog to think you are the better dog (meaning bigger, faster, smarter) have the dog trail a lead in the house. If the dog goes to bark at the door you might not be able to catch him but you can probably catch the lead etc. The result - dog already knows your bigger and smarter, the dog already knows you bring the food but he used to think at least he was faster but now you can magically catch him from accross the room - You are one hoopy frood! (and obviously the alpha) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bk_blue Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 [quote name='DogPaddle']You are one hoopy frood! (and obviously the alpha)[/quote] DP- you're a frood who really knows where her towel is... :wink: *Hitch-hiker speak for really together person* :oops: 8) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogPaddle Posted March 8, 2003 Share Posted March 8, 2003 You betcha! We can drop into Millaway's after for Pan Galactic Gargle Blasters too :drinking: ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogPaddle Posted March 8, 2003 Share Posted March 8, 2003 :B-fly: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted March 9, 2003 Share Posted March 9, 2003 We have a German Shepherd that was "testing us" during his puppy stages. We hired a personal trainer and he used the "throw chain" method. This was (and still is) the most efffective tool we have ever used. You throw the chains at there paws, not hitting them directly, it does not hurt them. Our dog tends to listen to "the man of the house" more than me, so when my husband is not around, if he mis-behaves, or acts up around company, all I have to do is get the chain and hold it in my hand (there has been no need for throwing for YEARS), and he listens and obeys immediatly. :P [/b] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted March 9, 2003 Share Posted March 9, 2003 That's rediculous! A squirt bottle works in the same way, but is MUCH less dangerous then THROWING A CHAIN AT YOUR DOG!!! :evil: Might as well use this method on your children! There is no difference! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtnek Posted March 9, 2003 Share Posted March 9, 2003 Squirt bottles dont work for my dogs, all they do is bite at the water -lol But there are better, although they take longer - ways to train a dog. For the truly stubborn, difficult ones, there are sound aversion disks. When they do something bad, you toss the disk (not at them, just in the room) and it makes an unpleasant sound while you say NO or whatever. They learn to associate the sound with your raised voice. It takes longer than fear training, but it's more reliable. and using chains for recall??? that's truly ridiculous.... The LAST thing you want is for your dog to be afraid to come to you....a fifty foot lead and treats will bring them back every time until they're trained. Then you can work on treat training them without the lead. They need to learn that when you call them, something NICE is going to happen. Lots of hugs and petting, good dog....then when you call them, they know you're going to give them lots of love, not fear.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogPaddle Posted March 9, 2003 Share Posted March 9, 2003 I agree. Just step back and listen to the concept: When I want my dog to come I throw a chain at him. That does not sound good, humane or logical, here is a simili: When I want my kids to come I throw a brick at them. I mean I don't hit them directly so its ok, right. . . :roll: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiger Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 Re: The brick. Sometimes my aim is off and he doesn't move for awhile. I use this as an opportunity to teach "stay". :D :wink: :wink: :wink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiger Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 Yeah but you don't have a dog like Kato who practices selective hearing. I took him for a walk the other day, I look down and there is the collar laying on the ground still attached to the leash - about 2 feet away from the little dog who is now smiling at me. Uh-oh... I turned around and acted like I had something really cool that I wasn't about to share. Works every time. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 :lol: LOL @ Kigger! (and your darling Kato :wink: ) That reminds me of that one episode of Married With Children that I saw! The dog (Buck) was feeling fed up, so he decided to leave. The daughter comes back from "taking the dog for a walk" and she was like "I was halfway through my walk with Buch, when I look down, and I was BUCK NAKED!" and she holds up the leash which is attached to the collar! :lol: :roll: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prairie_Gurl Posted March 11, 2003 Share Posted March 11, 2003 LOL. I've seen that one HazelNutMeg!!! Oh, some advice: another way (and more humain way) of punishing/teaching a dog that something is wrong is to grave the dog by the scruff of the neck (grave not hold!!!!!) and say a sharp NO!! If you are dominant of ur dog, it should work. It's how mother dogs punish their puppys. And don't do it hard!!!!! and don't do it to little dogs!!!!! I have to do this to shadow every once in a while, but she's a 75lb dog!!! Chokers also work pretty well when training a dog... and K ur not the only nutty one around here... I call my dogs by their name too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogPaddle Posted March 11, 2003 Share Posted March 11, 2003 We taught Kavik to come enthusiastically - two of us took him for a walk in the local conservation area, one would walk ahead, just out of sight on the twisty paths and start calling Kavik who was already straining to see where they went, the person holding the lead released him and he'd tear up the trail, when he got there he'd get treats and praise and snuggles, then the other person calls him back and repeat. Bonuses - he loves coming when called, in a 5km leisurely walk for me Kavik would run/jog/lope 15km - back and forth :lol:. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosebud Posted March 12, 2003 Share Posted March 12, 2003 :-? Well I'm not wild about terrorizing an animal into thinking "OH NO, If I don't mind a brick or chains will fall out of the sky and hit me and hurt me" :dog: Now I have one of the hardest breeds in the world when it comes to doing a recall. I have all hounds, Ridgebacks to be exact. When I call my bitch she stops, turns around looks at me, literally sticks her nose in the air and turns to go away. All I did to break this is teach her that I better not have to come to her or she will get in trouble :nono: and my discipline is the same her dog mommy would give, grab her skin by the neck and pat her bottom towards the direction I want her to go. When we get there she has to either be put on her tie, (maybe 5 minutes) or go in her crate. I don't beat my babies, but I do use firm tones in my voice and when they respond immediately they get a dog cookie. It's almost gotten to where I could use cookie as my recall word. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carolk9s Posted March 12, 2003 Share Posted March 12, 2003 [quote]It's almost gotten to where I could use cookie as my recall word.[/quote] I have NO problem with that! :D It CAN backfire at the dogpark now and then as I yell COOKIES to haul my dogs in and 10 other dogs fly in as well. COOKIE is my secret weapon word in the agility ring, if Candy seems to be ready to go the wrong way, I call out COOKIE and she turns right back to me. Of course I reinforce that once we are OUT of the ring by saying cookie and delivering cookies! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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