Queen Bitch Posted January 22, 2003 Share Posted January 22, 2003 I don't believe this. Anyone else think it's mildly absurd? *hint* pay special attention to the last couple of paragraphs. [url]http://www.alltel.net/~thaxdorn/shelties.htm[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad4duchess Posted January 22, 2003 Share Posted January 22, 2003 Ya the breeding part is bad :-? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carolk9s Posted January 22, 2003 Share Posted January 22, 2003 OK, what am I missing? It does not scream puppy miller to me, not even BYB. Is this a color genetics mismatch? (I admit I skipped most of that discussion as it was over my head) From the site: [quote]We also wanted a puppy with the [b]conformation and pedigree [/b]that would allow Jessie to breed her if she wanted to later. It was a tall order. Once we found the right breeder, we had to wait several months for the right puppy. [/quote] also: [quote]Again, we wanted the conformation and pedigree that would allow Molly to breed later on if she wanted to[/quote] If anything, at least on the surface, it sounds to me like SOME thought went into getting these dogs with the future in mind. I did not read where the people planned on pumping puppies out non stop from just any dogs. There ARE people in the world who put intelligent thought into the breeding of dogs. Again, if I missed something glaring, please enlighten me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carolk9s Posted January 22, 2003 Share Posted January 22, 2003 ok, where's the smacking oneself in the head icon? I KNEW I should have dug further in the site before I dug myself a hole. Now that I see the white dobies for sale and at stud, DISGUSTING! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad4duchess Posted January 22, 2003 Share Posted January 22, 2003 :confused1: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Bitch Posted January 22, 2003 Author Share Posted January 22, 2003 For me it's the white dobie bit AND the 5 year old and 3 1/2 -4 year old having their own dogs, that they can BREED LATER IF THEY WANT TO. The whole idea just kind of skeeves me out. What 4 or 5 year old , or even if they wait til the wizened age of 9, is mature enough to handle or make that decision? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black GSD Posted January 22, 2003 Share Posted January 22, 2003 [quote name='hillside']For me it's the white dobie bit AND the 5 year old and 3 1/2 -4 year old having their own dogs, that they can BREED LATER IF THEY WANT TO. The whole idea just kind of skeeves me out. What 4 or 5 year old , or even if they wait til the wizened age of 9, is mature enough to handle or make that decision?[/quote] IMO, by the time those little kids are old enough to have a "clue" about breeding, those shelties will either be dead or too old. What about the fact that they are also breding some kind of mutts? :evil: Did everyone see that too??? And those Shelties, while they may be cute, are NOT good examples of the breed (Judging by the one picture of each on the site.) as far as being something that should be bred. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogPaddle Posted January 23, 2003 Share Posted January 23, 2003 Did anyone see any pics of any of these Dobes or White Dobes on their site? I couldn't find any. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted January 23, 2003 Share Posted January 23, 2003 I don't find it THAT appauling, but I agree about the "If they want to breed them later" thing... and i also find it a little hard to believe that these little kids trained their dogs all this! Although I once read in an Agility magazine that this one girl one her first trial back in the day when she was like 6 or something i think it was. I don't think it's that bad to get the little girls some dogs of their own, as long as the parents look after it more, and take in all the big responsibilites and disisions (so basiclly it's the parents dogs), until the child is old enough to make it's on dissisions and such (I don't think I'M even old enough to do all that yet, I have 3 years left of school!!). I'm looking for the pics of the "white dob's" too... OH! Found it! : [url]http://www.alltel.net/~thaxdorn/phantom.htm[/url] There very interesting looking... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gooeydog Posted January 23, 2003 Share Posted January 23, 2003 [quote name='hillside']For me it's the white dobie bit AND the 5 year old and 3 1/2 -4 year old having their own dogs, that they can BREED LATER IF THEY WANT TO. The whole idea just kind of skeeves me out. What 4 or 5 year old , or even if they wait til the wizened age of 9, is mature enough to handle or make that decision?[/quote] Hey, food for two kids is expensive, and they gotta start "paying their way" sometime, right? What better way than to have them breeding their dogs at age 10? :lol: And I really hope they don't think a CGC is enough to justify breeding those dogs, because it's not. And not only are they breeding white Dobies, but over half of the dogs on their "bred by/owned by" page ([url]http://www.alltel.net/~thaxdorn/wdinfo.htm[/url]) are carriers for VWD, and on some of the dogs' profiles they state that they are "slightly aggressive" (one was "moderately aggressive"). Not to mention, that if their dogs are "consistently producing pups with superb working temperments", then where are the titles to back it up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nancy B Posted January 23, 2003 Share Posted January 23, 2003 [quote name='DogPaddle']Did anyone see any pics of any of these Dobes or White Dobes on their site? I couldn't find any.[/quote] If you would like to see photos of albino Dobermans, there are no whites they are all albinos, go to [url]http://www.geocities.com/~amazondoc/albinism/[/url] That website was put together by a Doberman lover who also happens to be a vet. It makes it quite clear just how terrible it is for a so called breeder to breed for a genetic defect...albinism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobbit Posted January 23, 2003 Share Posted January 23, 2003 Look at the 5th picture from the bottom of "Blue's" (Tiamo's brother) picture. Okay, I SWEAR I have seen this same picture on a website where the lady was advertising Albino Dobe's for sale and HE was the sire! I know it's the same picture! If I could only remember the site. IT was one that someone had posted because it was a puppy mill thing or one that bred many breeds of small dogs. If I could find that website.....I would email this lady and tell her. I know that dog's picture was on her site as being her main stud dog (and it's NOT the lady on this site). The lady used another person's picture and is saying it's her dog (when it's not -- at least I don't think she owns "Blue"). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobbit Posted January 23, 2003 Share Posted January 23, 2003 [quote name='Nancy B'][quote name='DogPaddle']Did anyone see any pics of any of these Dobes or White Dobes on their site? I couldn't find any.[/quote] If you would like to see photos of albino Dobermans, there are no whites they are all albinos, go to [url]http://www.geocities.com/~amazondoc/albinism/[/url] That website was put together by a Doberman lover who also happens to be a vet. It makes it quite clear just how terrible it is for a so called breeder to breed for a genetic defect...albinism.[/quote] Did you know that under "Albino Doberman's in the UK" (in the site that you sent) she talks about the Dobe's that were bred by Whispering Woods Dobermans (the site that was originally posted by hillside)? Also read the comments underneath from the judge. Did any of that make sense? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nancy B Posted January 23, 2003 Share Posted January 23, 2003 [quote name='Hobbit'] Did you know that under "Albino Doberman's in the UK" (in the site that you sent) she talks about the Dobe's that were bred by Whispering Woods Dobermans (the site that was originally posted)? Did any of that make sense?[/quote] Yes, it did and yes I do! Whispering Woods is one of the albino puppy producers. I've got a whole list of websites for those folks. We try to keep an eye on what they're up to becasue they're getting very tricky about trying to obtain Dobes with good pedigrees to incorporate into their breeding programs. It doesn't happen very often but when it does it's pretty sickening. Bitches are passed around from albino breeder to albino breeder to breed to their albino "stud dogs" and pump out puppies. A male from good lines was obtained last year, deception involved and huge fuss, I think that boy started siring pups at 6 months. At this point in time all albino or albino factored (normally colored but albino carrier) Dobes have a "z" as the second letter in their AKC registration. The AKC agreed to do this to enable responsible breeders to track and avoid any normal colored albino factored Dobes. No responsible breeder would ever intentionally breed to an albino or albino factor Dobe. (The DPCA would prefer that the AKC not register them at all or only grant a limited registration but, the AKC refuses to budge on that.) I do want to make it clear that although the Doberman Pinscher Club of America abhors the practice of breeding for albinism, they do not hold it against the dogs themselves. Dobe rescue still picks theim up and places them. We do not advocate killing all albinos as the albino breeders keep saying, we advocate spaying and neutering ALL albino Dobermans. Albinism in Dobes was a freak genetic mutation. All albino Dobermans can be traced back to the one original mutant bitch. That bitch had a poor temperament, poor structure and all the problems associated with albinism. She and her offspring were heavily inbred to "lock in" the albino gimmik.....they also locked in the poor temperament and poor structure. Generally speaking, albino Dobes don't really look like Dobermans. They've been mistaken for Weims quite frequently. BTW, Dobes are not a long lived breed. Average lifespan is about 10 years. Some so live quite a bit longer and some die younger. The DPCA has a longevity list that tracks Dobes 10 years old or older. The albino millers have a longevity list that starts at 7 years old....and not too many on it even so. Yes....I can get quite carried away about this subject! :oops: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eggrolyn1223 Posted January 23, 2003 Share Posted January 23, 2003 Why would they want to breed dogs full of skin problems, vision problems,and temperament prob.s? :evil: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogPaddle Posted January 23, 2003 Share Posted January 23, 2003 The background's on the Dobe photos from Wispering Woods are not very encouraging either, check out the background on the photo of Phantom's Wish Upon A Star CGC nursing. The other site with the genetics info seems good, but it will take me a month to work my way through it, oh well, needed something to read anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eggrolyn1223 Posted January 23, 2003 Share Posted January 23, 2003 I went to the petsmart once and saw an albino dobe...he looked like a weim...I actually asked the person if he was a weim..and she proudly( :x ) said he was an albino! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bk_blue Posted January 23, 2003 Share Posted January 23, 2003 A link to a rescue albino Dobe (there are many pics): [url]http://www.doberman911.org/cases/emmapicturepage.html[/url] [img]http://www.doberman911.org/images/cases/emma/emma01.jpg[/img] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiger Posted January 23, 2003 Share Posted January 23, 2003 They look like weims to me. :-? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carolk9s Posted January 23, 2003 Share Posted January 23, 2003 [quote name='eggrolyn1223']Why would they want to breed dogs full of skin problems, vision problems,and temperament prob.s? :evil:[/quote] For the MONEY honey! They can advertise these dogs as RARE to the ignorant and get far more than average in some cases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nancy B Posted January 23, 2003 Share Posted January 23, 2003 [quote name='eggrolyn1223']Why would they want to breed dogs full of skin problems, vision problems,and temperament prob.s? :evil:[/quote] Money. That's the only reason for someone to breed for albinism. The albino millers advertise "rare white Dobermans" and the unsuspecting public falls for it. Fortunately, the DPCA has made some progress in getting word out to the public about the health and temperament problems of albinos so, the demand and amount of money albino breeders can charge for their "rare whites" has dropped a bit. Last year the DPCA took out an ad in Dog Fancy (to run every month from then on). That helped a lot since quite a few of the albino millers advertise in there. There are still a staggering number of these poor dogs being produced. That won't change until everyone knows that these dogs are albino, not white, and the health, temperament and longevity problems. Know what's really sad? A few years ago the albino millers were selling their "rare whites" for about the same price you'd pay for a show potential pup from a responsible breeder. The price has dropped to near what you'd pay for a pet quality pup from a responsible breeder. Of course, the responsible breeder does all the health testing on sire/dam prior to breeding and isn't breeding for a genetic fault. The albino breeders seldom do more than a vWD DNA test on their dogs. They "shout out loud" when they have vWD clear dogs. vWD clear is very nice but, vWD (a bleeding disorder that you can think of as similar to hemophelia in humans) is in a very mild form in Dobermans. vWD affected Dobermans almost never are clinically affected....they're not bleeders. Responsible breeders do take vWD status (clear, carrier or affected) into consideration when considering a breeding but, it's only one part of the picture. Cancer and cardio are the two biggest outright killers of Dobes. Wobblers (CVI, neck vetebrae instability) is another reason Dobes don't live long. A breeder may choose to go with a vWD affected stud dog if that dog has a lot of longevity in it's pedigree, has no history of wobblers in it's pedigree and low or no incidence of cancer or cardio. The albino breeders just plain make me sick. To breed knowing that you are inflicting health and temperament problems on the Dobes for their entire lives before you even produce them....disgusting! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nancy B Posted January 23, 2003 Share Posted January 23, 2003 Oh yeah...forgot to say that the vWD DNA test is the least expensive test of all the health tests that responsible breeders use. That's probably why the albino breeders choose to tout that particular test. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted January 24, 2003 Share Posted January 24, 2003 uh, sorry for sounding ignorent... but, whats a "weim"? Another clasic *well, STUPID* example of "Fashion over Function"! They don't care that these dogs have problems, to them they just "look cool" so they sell, and that's all they want! MAKE ME SO MAD!!!! :evil: :evilbat: :2gunfire: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bk_blue Posted January 24, 2003 Share Posted January 24, 2003 Weim= Weimaraner. 8) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black GSD Posted January 24, 2003 Share Posted January 24, 2003 I really love the way they say that HD is really not a problem in the Doberman. Yet most of their stud dogs are only OFA Fair. And they don't even do the bitches. :evil: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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