Is dog aggression a big deal?

[gooeydog]

Many non-dog owners (and actually quite a few dog owners) think that all dog aggressive dogs should be PTS because they pose too much of a danger to people/other dogs. I know that different people will tolerate different behaviors/levels of behaviors in their's and other peoples' dogs, so I'm just trying to "broaden my horizons" a little, and get a better idea from a "normal" dog owner's point of view....

Is it acceptable for someone to own a dog aggressive animal, provided they can do so responsibly (ie: dog on leash when in public, enough obedience to get by, etc)?

If you were doing rescue, and you ended up fostering a dog aggressive dog (no other issues), would you place the dog (responsibly), send him to a different rescue, or have him PTS?

Would you own a dog aggressive dog (assuming your living situation permitted it)?

If one of your dogs became dog aggressive, to what lengths would you go to "correct" it, or rid them of the behavior?

[b]Edit:[/b] Forgot this one: How much dog aggression will you allow/tolerate in your dog (ie: one who "wants" to fight if challenged, one who "wants" to fight if another dog gets in "their" space, one who "wants" to fight as soon as they see another dog, etc; also/or: one who will calm down when told to, one who is so "fight crazy" they'll do anything to get to another dog, etc)?

[b]Notice we are only talking about [i]dog[/i] aggression here, not human aggression. [/b]

[Poofy]

"Many non-dog owners (and actually quite a few dog owners) think that all dog aggressive dogs should be PTS because they pose too much of a danger to people/other dogs. I know that different people will tolerate different behaviors/levels of behaviors in their's and other peoples' dogs, so I'm just trying to "broaden my horizons" a little, and get a better idea from a "normal" dog owner's point of view.... "


It depends on what your definition of aggressive is. *aggression* in dogs is normal dog behavior, *AGGRESSION* as the media, the uninformed, and the general public has made it into, is a different story.



"Notice we are only talking about dog aggression here, not human aggression. "


So you want to limit this to DOG on DOG agression?

[Black GSD]

Is dog aggression a big deal? Yes AND no. I have had dogs in the past that were dog agressive. So I kept them away from other dogs Do I think they should be PTS? NO.

SERIOUS obedience will go a long ways to keeping the dog from attacking another dog. Will the dog aggressive dog be "cured" usually NO, but you CAN get most dogs to where they can go out in public (on leash) without attacking other dogs.

Also just because a dog is dog aggressive does NOPT mean that the dog is a danger to people. (Unless the person gets in the way of a dog fight. But usually when this happens and someone ends up getting bitten, it is because they are in the way, NOT becuase the dog is TRYING to bite the person.)

[gooeydog]

[quote name='Poofy']So you want to limit this to DOG on DOG agression?[/quote]
Right. No other "issues" taken into consideration, just dog/dog aggression :D

[Hobbit]

Personally, I do not think that dog aggressive dogs should be PTS, if the owner is responsible and knowledgable enough to "properly" handle the dog.

Our ACD's are all dog aggressive, that is just their nature. They all want to be alpha over each other. They are confident with dominant personalities ---- but, this is what we must have in a dog that works for a living.

It does wear you out, but I wouldn't put any of them down. I know their personality, their quirks and deal with them (individually) accordingly.

They know that they are SECOND to us and when we say, "enough", they'd better stop....imediately. If we were lacking in our "dominance" there would be some major dog fights. I'm not talking about a bite here and there, but full blown, wanting to kill each other, dog fights. We MUST have control and maintain our status all the time. It does make you weary.

The Kelpies are totally different. Easy going, no complaining, no fighting, just all work, no non-sense.

[Poofy]

Okay..dog on dog agression..

At least this would not be as much of a hot debate as dog to human.. ;) heheheh

Any hoooooo....

Generally, I would say no to euthenasia...if the following situations were met.
It was the only dog

If it was not the only dog I had a way to house it seperately without confrontation and stress to the other dogs and denying it contact to me.

However, as some one who does rescue as well...to adopt out such a dog is a big risk. Since you can be held (legally) responsible for damage it does, if the new owner screws up. Also there is the chance for human injury if they try to break up a dog fight. Then it would depend on the level of aggression, type, and breed of dog.

[Guest Anonymous]

[quote name='gooeydog']Is it acceptable for someone to own a dog aggressive animal, provided they can do so responsibly (ie: dog on leash when in public, enough obedience to get by, etc)? [/quote]

Considering the breed I love has a tendency towards dog aggression I would say yes it is acceptable to a point. Is it easy? Unfortunately, no it is not. Is it something I think every dog owner is capable of handling? Not in the least. Two of my dogs absolutely hate one another, so we have played musical dogs for the past 2 years keeping them separate. They don't behave so badly in public with other dogs, but I always keep an eye on them so I can stop any behavior before it starts. If they focus in too keenly on another dog, I redirect their attention by making them sit/down/or something else that gets their eyes off of the other dog and on me.

Now on the flip side, if I had a dog that was so highly dog aggressive that it would go through fences, other people, or anything else in its way to get to that dog, I would have to reconsider my position. In my eyes a dog that is that dog aggressive would be a danger to humans (not to mention other dogs) and that imho is unacceptable.

[quote name='gooeydog']If you were doing rescue, and you ended up fostering a dog aggressive dog (no other issues), would you place the dog (responsibly), send him to a different rescue, or have him PTS?[/quote]

I am doing rescue and in Rottweilers some dog aggression is tolerable and workable. A lot of our dogs have same sex aggression issues, but generally can get along with dogs of the opposite sex. The dogs undergo a thorough temperament evaluation prior to entering our program, and if during that evaluation we feel the dog is too dog aggressive and we don't feel it is workable then we are forced to pass on that dog and give preference to another that is not so dog aggressive. Unfortunately with the number of Rottweilers who end up in shelters, we must focus our efforts on the dogs that we feel would be more 'placeable' because people who are suited to owning a Rottweiler aren't too terribly common, and those that are capable of and willing to own an extremely dog aggressive one are a very rare find.

Rachel

[mcobbin]

dog on dog agression. well, my shepherd was not happy living here in this small apartment, so it was more humane to her to let her live on my parents' farm. she gets a lot of room to run, there are no neighbors, and she stays in house during the night. consequently, even though i own other dogs, wanker lives in the apartment by himself (and the cat :P ). as a result, (and this is my fault) he tends to be "other dog" agressive. he has a bit of the napoleon complex, so he only really burs and growls at larger dogs. BUT, if i keep him on the leash, he has learned to heed my voice and just bur up without making any real moves toward the stranger dog. i think a responsible owner is necessary for an agressive, or in my case, unsocialized dog. when my future in-laws came to visit, they brought their dogs...o.k. i realize that something COULD, if not necessarily WOULD happen. so, wanker went to stay the night at his normal boarding kennel at the vets. whenever we go out for walks in areas that i even THINK could have other dogs, wanker always stays on the leash. this is simple. it may take a bit more care, but it IS possible to own a dog who, either through genetics (like wanker), past experiences or other circumstances is dog on dog agressive, without resorting to PTS!!! :o not everyone should own one, but a responsible owner knows how to handle their dog, just like the parent of a difficult child knows how to handle thier child.

[Guest Anonymous]

It is a given that there are going to be dog-dog aggressive dogs thats every bully breed, most gurading breeds, most of the terriers and heck there is no actual way to determin what dogs are going to be dog agressive, some dogs are just very dominant, but if you are willing to work and train you can keep it at a minimum. THere is nothing worse than watching a huge dog drag an owner down the black screaming "NO, HEEEEL!!!!" but as i said if you are willing to work your dog then it can be kept to a minimum.
:black:

[Pumpkin the musher]

There is considerable discussion about this in mushing circles as well- considering that any one of your dogs could come in close proximity with potentially hundreds of other dogs at a race- such as passing another team or being passed, or just being parked in the staging area before a race, most dog/dog aggression is not tolerated. A dog that bites at another dog while on the trail is called an "alligator", and is considered bad manners to allow one to be on a team. Of the 13 dogs that I have, 3 are intact males, one is a nuetered male and the remaining 9 are intact females. They can all be allowed to run free in their play area and I have never had a serious dog fight. There is the occasional curled lip, or pushy-shovey hackle raising, but most confrontations are mediated by my lead dog, Bug, who I believe feels it is her duty to keep everyone in line. The one nuetered male is so because he was extremely pushy with other dogs, and the nuetering transformed him into a mellow, friendly, hard working dog. This does'nt work all the time, but with him it did. Another fix for an aggressive sled dog is to put them in lead. Usually after about 4 or 5 miles of having to think [i]and[/i] run, they figure it's easier to be nice... 8)

[bk_blue]

I think it's perfectly acceptable for a responsible and firm-handed owner to have a dog aggressive dog provided they take the necessary steps to prevent anything untoward from happening.
I really don't know about the rescue situation though- IMO there are enough dogs in shelters and rescue and I would be pushing forward the dogs who are all-round well-behaved over the more dog-aggressive creature. I also don't think I have the necessary skills and time to look after a dog-aggressive animal. I'm think I'm fortunate that Blitz isn't dog-aggressive at all- very dominant, but not aggressive. my little :angel: :roll:

[eggrolyn1223]

I don't think a dog aggressive dog should be put to sleep,because responsible owners could control them.

[Nancy B]

[quote name='gooeydog']Is it acceptable for someone to own a dog aggressive animal, provided they can do so responsibly (ie: dog on leash when in public, enough obedience to get by, etc)?

If you were doing rescue, and you ended up fostering a dog aggressive dog (no other issues), would you place the dog (responsibly), send him to a different rescue, or have him PTS?

Would you own a dog aggressive dog (assuming your living situation permitted it)?

If one of your dogs became dog aggressive, to what lengths would you go to "correct" it, or rid them of the behavior?

[b]Edit:[/b] Forgot this one: How much dog aggression will you allow/tolerate in your dog (ie: one who "wants" to fight if challenged, one who "wants" to fight if another dog gets in "their" space, one who "wants" to fight as soon as they see another dog, etc; also/or: one who will calm down when told to, one who is so "fight crazy" they'll do anything to get to another dog, etc)?

[b]Notice we are only talking about [i]dog[/i] aggression here, not human aggression. [/b][/quote]

Yes, I think it is perfectly acceptable for someone to own a dog aggressive dog as long as they are responsible to take the extra precautions required to deal with it. Extra training, extra vigilance.

Face it, not allowing dog aggressive dogs could wipe out entire breeds. Male Dobes are male dog aggressive.

Doberman rescue routinely places male Dobermans, which are dog aggressive, as well as the occasional bitch who is also dog aggressive. Dobe rescues screen homes very carefully and ensure that the potential adopters are aware of the issue and what extra work and responsibilities are involved. They will also NEVER place a rescue male in a home with a male of any other breed. Any bitches who come into rescue with regular dog aggression problems (not the normal male/male stuff) will only be place in a home that fully understands the problem and will commit to having the rescue be the only dog.

Dobe rescue destroys any Dobes that display aggression toward humans.

I own a male Dobe. He's still young (2) and has displayed little aggression toward other males yet but, I've been training to cope with the problem since he was a pup. Most knowledgable folks who own male Dobes do likewise. My Mason, when on lead or when working agility or obedience offlead with me is perfectly able to ignore other male dogs in the vicinity. He knows his attention belongs on me and that any "displays" toward other dogs will not be tollerated. I simply do not let him offlead anywhere he could potentially run into a male dog. That solves most of the problem. Of course, there's always the potential for someone to let their male dog roam free around the neighborhood (not legal here). If a male came charging up to Mason (even when Mason was on lead) I think he would be justified to respond given the breed disposition. That's why I always carry pepper spray when I walk him. I've never had to use it but I wouldn't hesitate to drop a loose dog. It would be far kinder to the loose dog (no lasting ill effects) than to allow the fight that would inevedibly ensue.

As far as how much dog aggression I personally will tollerate in my dogs goes, it's about what a normal male Dobe would display. I expect a dog onlead with me to be albe to ignore or at least not react to other male dogs onlead in close vicinity. I expect to be able to confidently run offlead in agility, at practice or in a trial, with no worries that my dog will "go" for a male staring at him from the sidelines. If a male dog is loose and runs right up in my onlead Dobes face I wouldn't blame my Dobe at all for reacting. (Actually, this happened once recently and a male Golden bit by boy on the head. Drew blood. Mason didn't break heel position and, as someone tackled the loose dog, I heeled him away. I was very proud of my boy for not reacting poorly but, I certainly wouldn't count on it in the future.)

[Guest Anonymous]

It depends on the breed of dog. I have Apbt's and for the most part they are VERY dog agressive and yes some will tear through fences to get to the other dogs that is why so may people have them on chain or cable run setups.Those dogs will grab anything that gets close enough wether it be a male or female or a pup but those same dogs would never EVER show any agression toward humans. Apbt's do not generally let go of the other dog when they are fighting they do not snap and slash they grab and hold and they will not let go of the other dog and bite you. They were bred this way for mor than a hundred years because they dogfighters had to get in the pit with them and open their mouths with the breaking sticks and human agression at all was frowned upon and any dog exhibiting it would be put to sleep. So if you have a dog aggressive Apbt as long as you can control them and keep them from grabbing another animal you will be fine and yes children are safe even with a dog agressive Apbt. Now if you are talking about any other bredd of dog(not bred for fighting) then I would say that yes they should be euthanized as most will bite anyhting that gets withtin their reach during a fight and this includes their owner. That could be a very dangerouse situation if you are dealing with a large breed. If they are only dominate on the other hand and do not try to grab everything int heir reach than most likely they could be trained and worked with to ignore other dogs on walks etc..As for ridding them of the behaviour:
If you own an Apbt you are going against the temperment of the breed you should have known the potential for dog on dog agression before getting an Apbt
Would you scold a labrador for wanting to retrieve?
A border collie for wanting to chase sheep?
A hound dog for wanting to chase raccons?
A husky for wanting to pull sled?
You could not break them of those thing but you could train them to ignore their drives for the most part but it would not be 100%

[Guest Anonymous]

i own 2 AMPT's and my female is not agressive at all its just not in her and I know for a fact that her sire and dame were both agressive. She bows down to the smallest dog now my male that is a different story. He is agressive toward large males who show agression towards him first and once they show that agression he never forgets who the dog is. I took them to the dog park yesterday and i have had them both there since they were about 5 weeks and this one dog who he always gets into with showed up, I always leave when the lady gets there but im tired of leaving when it was her dog that provoked mine in the first place, and when he sees this dog its on. Of course once I grab him its over but should i have to leave the park all the time. Then she starts complaining about pitbulls not being alowed in the park because of agression, HOw stupid then another man jumps in and says you know they are pitbulls and what they are bred for why do you even bring them out. Im like, are you serious what about my female who rolled around in the grass fighting herself while my my was attacking, if she is a pitbull shouldnt she have gotten up and attacked to. Im tired of all the negativity. Then they threaten to call the police. I offered my cell phone at least ten times. Why didnt she call. Doesnt this sound dumb. Ive raised my dogs to be so social that anytime they come in contact with other people they attack to lick the peoples faces. Especially the female. When we go to the park the first thing she does is run to the benches to meet the people and attempt to sit in their laps. Any comments, Oh yeah if you are not educated on the pitbull then please dont comment go do some research. I have for over ten years!

[Cairn6]

I have to say though that I don't understand why anyone with a dog aggressive dog would be showing up at the dog park. I never brought Toto to the dog park. Why would you put your dog and other dogs in harms way that way? Not to mention a human that might be stupid and get in the way. My dog is only 20lbs and I never bring him to the dog park even now that he seems to be almost completely over the problem. I will never believe he is 100% over even though we haven't had any problems in months.

[bk_blue]

[quote name='sugart20_99'] my male that is a different story. He is agressive toward large males who show agression towards him first and once they show that agression he never forgets who the dog is. I took them to the dog park yesterday and i have had them both there since they were about 5 weeks and this one dog who he always gets into with showed up, I always leave when the lady gets there but im tired of leaving when it was her dog that provoked mine in the first place, and when he sees this dog its on. Of course once I grab him its over but should i have to leave the park all the time. Then she starts complaining about pitbulls not being alowed in the park because of agression, HOw stupid then another man jumps in and says you know they are pitbulls and what they are bred for why do you even bring them out. Im like, are you serious what about my female who rolled around in the grass fighting herself while my my was attacking, if she is a pitbull shouldnt she have gotten up and attacked to. Any comments, Oh yeah if you are not educated on the pitbull then please dont comment go do some research. I have for over ten years![/quote]

OK.
First of all why is your dog, who you KNOW to be dog aggressive, allowed to go to the dog park? If he is so easily provoked into aggression by another dog (well duh! it's a dog park, funny that there should be other dogs there too), then why do you persist in taking him there?
Exactly what do you think would happen to your male if he got into a fight with another dog, given the breed's (undeserved) bad reputation? Your dog would be PTS without a second thought. Like it or not, as a pit owner AND the owner of a proven dog-aggressive dog, the onus is on YOU to be responsible. You can bet your bottom dollar if I had a dog-aggressive dog, no matter what size or breed, I would not take any chances with him or her, either for the dog's safety or the safety of other dogs, and indeed any humans who may get in the way of a fight, or try to break up one.
It is pit owners like you, regardless of how many years' experience you may have, who give this fine breed a bad name. Pit owners who hide behind the excuses of victimisation are doing nobody any favours.

[gooeydog]

Well said BK. People who can't exercise good judgement with their dogs are the reason the government in some places has removed that responsibility from all of us by banning the APBT and other breeds.

[Guest Anonymous]

i say no! i have a dog aggressive dog.. Cody..
but we are working ont hat with a personal trainer. they think it's the signs i'm sending him also with his deafness and eyes..
Cody's kept on a leash, but at the dog park does good until he gets tired, then he gets edgey, and when i see that he is getting tired the leash goes on and we are on our way. now when he's on leash and walking around the block, or in a store he'll bark adn go for the dog..
but i dont htienk they should be pts as long as the owner can have control of hte dog

[Guest Anonymous]

Dog to dog aggressive dogs should not be PTS.

I own a APBT and at two years old she gets along with my pack of dogs. She doesn't like strange dogs jumping on her face so often in public if I stop I have to step in front of her facing me to prevent that from happening.

Anatolians have a tendency for same sex aggression. I simply do not foster more than one male at a time (since my pack is 6 females and one small tiny male that has never met my current ASD).

Ariel my Chow/GSD mix has a history of grabbing small dogs as they enter doorways (don't ask I have never figured it out but that is where she gets them). I own a Pom too. They never meet.

Two years of having both the APBT and the Pom here and no accidents yet. 1 year of fostering ASD's and no incidents.

[Guest Anonymous]

[quote name='sugart20_99']i own 2 AMPT's and my female is not agressive at all its just not in her and I know for a fact that her sire and dame were both agressive. She bows down to the smallest dog now my male that is a different story. He is agressive toward large males who show agression towards him first and once they show that agression he never forgets who the dog is. I took them to the dog park yesterday and i have had them both there since they were about 5 weeks and this one dog who he always gets into with showed up, I always leave when the lady gets there but im tired of leaving when it was her dog that provoked mine in the first place, and when he sees this dog its on. Of course once I grab him its over but should i have to leave the park all the time. Then she starts complaining about pitbulls not being alowed in the park because of agression, HOw stupid then another man jumps in and says you know they are pitbulls and what they are bred for why do you even bring them out. Im like, are you serious what about my female who rolled around in the grass fighting herself while my my was attacking, if she is a pitbull shouldnt she have gotten up and attacked to. Im tired of all the negativity. Then they threaten to call the police. I offered my cell phone at least ten times. Why didnt she call. Doesnt this sound dumb. Ive raised my dogs to be so social that anytime they come in contact with other people they attack to lick the peoples faces. Especially the female. When we go to the park the first thing she does is run to the benches to meet the people and attempt to sit in their laps. Any comments, Oh yeah if you are not educated on the pitbull then please dont comment go do some research. I have for over ten years![/quote]

First do you mean APBT? Seconly you are exactly the type of pit bull owner that makes the rest of end up suffering through fighting to keep BSL away.

You are NOT helping the breed you are HURTING the breed. If you want a dog you can take to the dog park get a Golden or something other than a Pit Bull.

Oh yeah by the way I OWN a Pit Bull :-)

[Seijun]

I think it is acceptable to have a dog who is aggressive to other dogs as long as that person has control over their dog. After all, we can't expect for ourselves, as sophisticated and advanced as we are, to always get along with one another, so how can we expect a dog to always get along with other dogs?

~Seij

[Aussies]

[quote name='gooeydog']Is it acceptable for someone to own a dog aggressive animal, provided they can do so responsibly (ie: dog on leash when in public, enough obedience to get by, etc)? [/quote]

I think dog-dog aggression is a complex problem and many times it's a perfectly normal part of canine repetoire. How would you exactly define it? Sometimes it's territorial and, off the dog's territory it poses no problem. Sometimes it's over resource guarding. Sometimes it's misdirected prey drive. Sometimes it's a lot of noise and posturing (looks pretty scary to the public) but little physical contact. Sometimes (and this is my pet peeve) it's the result of someone else's rude dog ignoring the more subtle signals of communication, and getting in the other dog's face. I think it's perfectly acceptable for someone to own a dog aggreessive animal if they take whatever measure's necessary to keep the dog under control.

[quote]If you were doing rescue, and you ended up fostering a dog aggressive dog (no other issues), would you place the dog (responsibly), send him to a different rescue, or have him PTS?[/quote]

Unfortunately - when it comes to rescue, I have to be a bit stricter. The choices I make depend on a variety of things - the dog's age, his social history, how many dogs I already have in the program, what foster homes are open that might be able to handle that dog and work with it. It also depends on why the dog is dog aggressive. It's very hard - I've adopted out several dog aggressive dogs to responsible owners. At least one of those owners was not so responsible after all and the dog ended up losing his life. I put to sleep a severaly dog aggressive GSD who was also very fearful and unpredictable, and one aussie who had killed another dog, was older and had spent his life tied out (all of which combined to give a poor prognosis for change).

[quote]Would you own a dog aggressive dog (assuming your living situation permitted it)?[/quote]

Not by choice.

[quote]If one of your dogs became dog aggressive, to what lengths would you go to "correct" it, or rid them of the behavior?[/quote]

Depends on how severe. If it was bad enough that the other dogs in the household were in real danger - I'd probably euthanize it. If it only affected dogs outside the family I'd try to work through it with training, desensitizing, and management.

[quote][b]Edit:[/b] Forgot this one: How much dog aggression will you allow/tolerate in your dog (ie: one who "wants" to fight if challenged, one who "wants" to fight if another dog gets in "their" space, one who "wants" to fight as soon as they see another dog, etc; also/or: one who will calm down when told to, one who is so "fight crazy" they'll do anything to get to another dog, etc[/quote]

I don't consider a dog who wants to fight if challenged or if another dog gets in their space to necessarily be dog aggressive. I think that is well within the range of normal dog. I think it becomes "abnormal" when the dog doesn't quit when the other dog submits. I would not tolerate the last two categories though - I could not personally live with a dog that wants to fight as soon as it see's another dog or will do anything to get at another dog. The last would be pretty dangerous and hard to contain.

Cool thread!

[Aussies]

edited because same message got sent twice

[coastie_wife]

My family went through a decision regarding aggression less than a year ago, so I would like to add my $.02. My husband and I are very big weimaraner fans. Lifelong, both of us. We did research, and research, and more research before we decided that yes, we wanted to adopt a weim. We kept our eyes open and found an 18 month old male who was up for adoption in our area.

The family told us they were giving him up for adoption because they had a newborn child and he was too excitable and big for them to handle anymore. They had spent almost 1k in training on him, he was very obedient, very well trained. They also mentioned they had had him for only a year, meaning he was first given up for adoption at 6 months of age by his original owner. That should have been some kind of signal for us.

Smokey was a wonderful dog. Well trained, beautiful, gentle with our son. We had him neutered right away as his previous 2 sets of owners had not. We continued with his training, and he loved it....and we loved him.

About 4 months after we brought him home he began becoming aggressive and dominant, but only toward me. I am not a passive or permissive woman, but every time I sought help the only answer I was given was "Don't be so permissive with him....he needs someone dominant". I wonder now that if my husband had contacted those same people if they would have been as condescending and unhelpful......

I do not have regular menstrual cycles, so it took me close to a year to realize he was only attacking me right before my period. It took another 6 months or so to confirm that yes, he was REALLY strange acting at that time of the month. We had already had him fixed, that should not have been a problem. However, it was, and he continued nipping me at least every few months.

This I could have put up with forever. Being growled at and nipped on the hand every few months is a non-issue to a dog lover like me....but the last year we owned him he got progressively worse. He attacked my husband twice, the last time drawing blood. He began going from jumping at the door and barking when delivery men came to physically attacking anyone who came to the door. The last straw was when he attacked a child who lived across the street from us, who he had been around since he was 18 months old and who had never been unsupervised with him, so I know she had never hurt him.

I attempted to find him a home, but I was too honest. Having spoken with the people we adopted him from, we found out that they gave him up to us because he was being aggressive to the wife in *that* family. They assumed it was because she wasn't domineering enough to him. Had they simply been honest with us we still would have taken him home, but my husband wouldn't have scars today, because we wouldn't have put up with it as long as we did. We finally ended up needing to put him down. It was a horrible day, I still love him, and so does my son.......but I simply could no longer deny that he was a danger to me, my family, and other people. It wasn't his fault--had we known when we brought him home there was an aggression problem we *might* have been able to get him further training.....but by the time we realized how bad the problem was it was too late.....