NO BOND???

[Crystal]

[quote name='Michele']Crystal: just wondering how responsible you are as a dog owner...please don't get upset.....but you asked me and I'm answering you. If I am wrong, then fine.....[/quote]

Oh Michele, I am not upset. but I promise I am responsible. Yes I had an accidental breeding. I admitted it and said it was wrong. Like no one here has ever had something happen. I mean people have accidents, dogs get loose on occasion, people in there shock have yelled at or popped there dogs. I mean mistakes and I had one, I am sorry and I can't change it.

Pyr, thanks for thinking I deserve a second chance. I had a dog and was planning to breed her. I had an accidental dog pregnancy and I feel bad about that. I even rehomed my dog as oppose to having to place her with my inlaws again. So I am a bad person I guess.

See if I ask for any more advice here. Sometimes the advice here isn't even that great. I've been told of other places where the training advice is better. So don't act like you know it all about dogs and treat me this way. I came for help, not persecution.

[Crystal]

Jess as a matter of fact I have applied everything I have been told to do here. I have asked about crate training, play bitting, and some other things. I have tried them all. Believe it or not. Maybe Toby is just one of the stubborn ones like PYR says.

[pyrless]

I do believe you, Crystal. What doesn't kill you makes you stronger, right?
Everyone, she is trying and doing the best to her abilities. What one of us can judge? These experiences, or trials by fire, as they may be, make us better dog owners in the long run.

[Crystal]

One thing you are wrong about. Those pups were not raised in a shed. Yes she had them there and they spent a few days there. We moved to the new house before they ever opened there eyes and they were raised in the house. I do know where they are by the way. One of them, is in a big rig with his owners and goes everywhere with them. 2 of them are on a farm. The others all have good homes and live indoors.

And K, you have never had an accident or made a mistake. You've never yelled at a dog or starteled one by over reacting?
Maybe they have never been loose, but I was just stating mistakes and accidents that happen to people.

[Crystal]

The advice here is ok, but I have been told by members I will not name that there are better places to recieve training advice.

[Crystal]

Well act holier than thou if you want to. I honestly never meant anything that way.

[pyrless]

oboy. i'm out you guys, i'm gonna go look at other topics for now... :(

[gooeydog]

[quote] I had an accidental dog pregnancy and I feel bad about that. [/quote]

An "accident"? What did you expect when you had you intact, in heat bitch tied out in your yard, and as per your own posts on the matter, she and the other intact dog she was tied out with were "fighting off" strays that were coming into the yard to get to her? No, you had a dog pregnancy due to your own negligence and irresponsibility.

I wasn't going to say anything regarding your new dog, but I have to agree with others that given your past here, this thread didn't exactly make it look like you'd made a change for the better.

I also agree that if you think this puppy's mouthing, nipping, and other misbehavior are bad, you surely don't need an APBT, as many of them retain these lovely "puppy" traits well into adulthood.

[kendalyn]

Crystal, to me it sounds like you've got a high drive puppy in need of a lot of discipline and training and exercise. That's a really tall order, especially for someone who is looking after two small children as well. My best advice would be to exercise Toby like there is no tomorrow. He really sounds like he is just begging for it. Remember, a tired dog is a good dog!

[AllAmericanPUP]

this is kinda OT..but i'm wondering about this guy with the bullboxers or whatever?

[bk_blue]

[quote name='Crystal']The advice here is ok, but I have been told by members I will not name that there are better places to recieve training advice.[/quote]

Well then...

[Crystal]

[color=red]Please before you read this, do not take any atttitude with it. Maybe you are reading my posts in a way I don't mean them. This is from my heart and I mean it seriously and honestly. So don't make it hostile, Please.[/color]~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Look guys, I am not planning to get rid of Toby. I know the biting now is puppy teething and play. I just said if I can't train it out of him I am concerned it may turn into a problem later and he may bite someone. Maybe I was wrong. Maybe play bitting now won't led to bitting later, but you could have explained that to me instead of going off.

Look, I had McKenzie for nearly 2 years. I loved that dog with all my heart and soul. Due to circumstances I could not control we ended up in a bad situation. It was either live on the streets or with the inlaws. Yes I hated that she had to be outside. I am sorry she had the pups. I had no where to put her to get her away when she went into heat. By the time I had it figured out it was to late, she was already pregnant. Ok, hold it against me if you wish. I did the best I could after that. Those puppies were raised very well and loved kids. They are in good homes. McKenzie is in a terrific home now. I didn't want to get rid of her. I couldn't tie her up at my inlaws again. They didn't care about her. I was forced to move from the house I lived in. I couldn't find a place that I could have her. I would have paid an extra deposit for her and everything, but that just doesn't happen here often. So I had no choice. I had to rehome her. I was very sad, but she was smiling the whole time. Happy and trusting like always. She is in a great place now and I know it is best for her. I would love to have her back, but she loves her new famliy.

I have tried everything with Toby that you guys have suggested. Honestly we've done it and still are. I guess he is just stubborn. I know it takes a while. This topic was just about the lack of bond I had with him. I watched yesterday as my daughter walked up to pet Toby, he rolled over and let her rub his belly. He rubbed his nose on her cheek. He is very gentle with her. Yes he play bites some, but he is even easier with her. So as I sat there watching I figured it out, Toby is her dog. Toby loves that little girl. That is fine by me, I was just trying to figure him out. I thought maybe he as just the type that prefered to be to him self. That would have been fine too. I wouldn't have ditched him just for the way he is. I wouldn't turn my back on him for being himself. Believe it or not I love Toby. I know alot of dogs connect better with one person in the family. McKenzie was my dog, buy Toby is my daughters dog. Now that I know that I can see alot of things in him I didn't notice before.

So really, I am sorry that you all felt the need to attack me. I didn't feel like that bad of a person and I still don't. You treated me like I was the only person to ever do something stupid. I'm not, I make mistakes and I admit that openly. I never said I was perfect and I never meant anything I said as holier than thou. I am not that way. You can believe me or you can sit and make you remarks about me. Whatever you decide. Honestly I am not a bad person and I am a big animal lover.

I don't know why this turned so hostile. Hopefully it will not be anymore. If it is however I don't feel the need to stay around. I like it here and I have meet lots of people who I like quite well. I have learned alot being here before and being here now. I also know people are not perfect and things get blown out of preportion sometimes. I am hoping that is what happened here. I really hope that everyone here does not hate me. I didn't do anything to deserve that. I am only human.

~Crystal

[Crystal]

There is a difference if loving someone or animal and falling in love. Just tell me, is this the way it is going to be from now on? Will I now be treated this way and totally disrespected as a person? If so I will leave and allow you guys your peacful world back. Be honest with me, I have been with you.

[Lucky Chaos]

[quote name='kendalyn']Crystal, to me it sounds like you've got a high drive puppy in need of a lot of discipline and training and exercise. That's a really tall order, especially for someone who is looking after two small children as well. My best advice would be to exercise Toby like there is no tomorrow. He really sounds like he is just begging for it. Remember, a tired dog is a good dog![/quote]

Excellent advice. Your dog sounds like a puppy to me. My aunt had a lab puppy that sounds exactly like this, we looked after her for a week and she was horrible with the biting. Well I started taking her for long romps with the other dogs and she would come home and be like a totally different pup. You said in another thread in the mornings he's put on a chain outside and brought in in the evenings, and then put in the laundry room for the night. I don't know if this changed but this is not enough time and socialization for a puppy. An hour a day of training, broken into small maybe 15 minute sessions is a must. Then lots of playtime and walks so he's tired out.

It took me ages to feel like a had a bond with Chaos, she was a very independent pup, and really didn't want much to do with humans. Finally I realized that it was as much my job as hers to form the bond and started spending hours every day with her. Now she's the best dog I could have asked for, and I can really see the bond we have.

Now as to what other people have said, I have to agree and have agreed for a while but I'm not going to get into that.

[kittygirl109]

I'm still reading. I'm on page three, and I may add another post, but I must say... :o K, you are being extremely harsh.

I have a dog that doesn't give me time to breath. I love him. All I have to say is..

Crystal, Toby needs more time. I have had Caeser for 8 months and I feel like I just got him.

[bk_blue]

[quote name='kittygirl109']I'm still reading. I'm on page three, and I may add another post, but I must say... :o K, you are being extremely harsh.[/quote]

K is not being harsh. She is merely pointing out the inconsistencies. They speak for themselves.

[kittygirl109]

I happened to think her posts were very rude. Crystal is having a problem here, why make it worse?

[Cairn6]

I just wanted to add that I do understand what it feels like to not have what you would call a deep bond with your dog. But 4 months is a little soon to make that decision. How about 4 years? We adopted Mandy(pictured in signature) 4 years ago when she was 3 years old. She was scared at first but would wag her tail when you talked to her. I thought she would be a calm dog because my grandmother was living with us and she needed a companion. This dog was so calm there is not much more to her personality. I don't what they did to her that seemed to zap any terrier spirit that was in her. But she could win awards for being a dead head. She will come sit by on occasion to let you scratch her belly and she will wag her tail happily when you first get home. But other then that not much personality.

But I love her anyway she is who she is whether she was born that way or someone made her that way she is who she is and I made a commitment to take care of her until the day she dies. Even if I die of bordom in the meantime :lol: she's my girl. I think sometimes we get all these ideas of what the perfect dog is and forget they are individuals just like any person.

I don't think you will feel that way 4 years down the line though this is a puppy and a puppy full of spirit and I know from my cairn who gave me more trouble then any other dog that sometimes it just makes the bond grow stronger when you finally find a common ground and an understanding. I recently had to euthanize my boy and I can't write any more then that right now. I wrote it all out on petfinder once and I can't do it again right now. But I say that just to say that as much as I loved my Toto I know that no other dog can ever be him just as he could never be other dogs that I loved. They are individuals and we love them just as you do when you have children with different personalities.

[bk_blue]

[quote name='kittygirl109']I happened to think her posts were very rude. Crystal is having a problem here, why make it worse?[/quote]

Have you actually read the thread???

[Guest Anonymous]

I haven't read all the posts...I'm coming in on this late. I have a question. How long after the loss of your previous dog did you get Toby? How long have you had Toby?

Was it a "My heart is breaking let me get a dog" move (Don't worry I've done it and don't think badly of anyone for doing it) or was it well thought out?

The reason I ask is because I'll be honest. I lost my heart dog in 1997. My son got a dog in 1998. I didn't get a dog...my SON did. He was given a dog by my parents (We lived with them so it was really no big deal.) Ariel (son's dog) was a sweet sweet girl who it took me almost two years to fall in love with and bond with. When she was two I was told either she had to leave or my parents were going to put her to sleep! (She was small dog aggressive, my parents had two poms). I bonded so deeply with her that I moved my wedding up, hunted for a house big enough for our kids and a 50 pound dog. When she became unstable enough for us to consider putting her down (over three years after we moved), I died. I died a million times over.

TWO YEARS to bond to a dog who ended up being my second skin during my bed rest during pregnancy, who allowed the baby to sleep curled up next to her and wouldn't move. She wasn't an awsome love everybody type dog either. IT took my husband from the time she was a puppy, until he lived with her for 6 months to even be able to touch her. She didn't like him until she realized he wasn't going anywhere and if she wanted to be near me, she had to be near him.


My point is....wait...see this out. It took me two years to bond with Ariel. Heck to be honest...my husband has dogs I haven't bonded with. There are dogs of mine he hasn't bonded with. Doesn't mean I don't love them or that the dogs I haven't bonded with have anything wrong with them. Just means my husband and I have VERY different tastes in dogs. I have foster dogs I bond with more strongly than my husband's dogs.

Try training!!!!!! Training as I tell all adopters done in sesions of at least 30 minutes a day, always ending on a good note helps owner and dog to bond. Most adopters feel funny adopting from a family who has a bond of any sort so I tell them the best way to move that bond to them is to train them, work with them one on one.

Good luck to you.

[Lucky Chaos]

Can I ask a question? Say you never bond with him, hey it could happen. Probably not but it could. What will you do? Give him up, find him another home? Or keep him like you should. What if he never truly adjusts to life with children? Whether or not you bond with him you OWE it to him to live out his life in one stable home. Its not his fault he never bonds, he shouldn't be put through the stress of adjusting to a whole new life. Especially since he sounds liek a very fearful dog.

I really don't think anyone is being harsh, just truthful. The only way to guarantee a dog will be exactly like you want is by getting an adult dog thats lived in the same situation as your house. A puppy is a chance, andi t dosn't always work out the way you want.

[CincoandDahlilasgirl]

Just a thought but maybe he feels that he's safe around ur daughter? Maybe u did something to scare him and not know it? I know when we got Cinco it took him a few weeks to warm up to my dad but there was an instant bond between me, my mom and him. Give Toby time after all he's trying to adjust to u just as ur trying to adjust to him.

[Guest Anonymous]

Ok, I skipped around too to see what's going on.

You said you noticed he acts differently around your daughter. Maybe you could include her into the training. You could do all the behind the scene things, but let her call the commands. Like you put the food into the food bowl, but have your daughter tell Toby to come eat.

I dunno, Kiani is my dog whole-heartedly, and I still have a tough time getting her to listen to me when she's wound up. And that seems to be every minute of every day. But if we've had a long day, I can leave her leash free and play with her in the yard without worrying. But if she's too wound up, forget it, it's in one ear and out the other, and in her own little world.
She also never listens to Kari. And I've been trying to work on it, by having Kari call all the commands. But eventually I'll get frustrated and have to tell her.
Like if it's in the morning and we're leaving for work. Kaini will run outside expecting to go with us, but sometimes I just can't bring her along. She's also tied to the shelf thingy next to the door so she can only go so far. But sometimes I'm trying to do other things and Kari can't ever get her to go inside so we can leave. I'll even go stand next to the door and have kari tell her to go in, and I'll point. But she won't listen till I say "go inside". That's when she'll give up her fight to get to the car and go inside. But no matter how mad I'm at her, I still tell her, "I love you big girl, be good, and i'll be home soon."

I'm also having a problem with her growling lately. She seems to growl at any one or anything that comes near the house, car, or me. I always tell her to stop it. It just used to be a whimpering funny noise she would make whenever she wanted to go say hi or chase another animal or some one walking by. But now it seems to be getting more into an aggressive growl, her tail is generally still up and wagging but it sounds different. And I don't know what to do about it. I tell her every time to stop it, but she never does.

And I do understand Crystal's, She loves the dog, but not like a companion, like the other half of her.
Same way Kari care's for the c@t (partically cause I love the it so much), but she still doesn't like it a whole lot. and if anything happened to faith, it would upset her too.
There's a difference in the way you love your significant other, your family members (mom, dad, sister, brother), your children, and your in-laws. There's no real way to explain it, it's just different. And sometimes you can't bring yourself to love it, but you still care about it, you still care if something happens to it.

[kittygirl109]

[quote name='Jessashelony']kittygirl, perhaps you shouldn't comment on something you know nothing about.[/quote]

I read this whole thread. I have to admit I didn't like all of Crystal posts, but K's really... :evil:

[bk_blue]

Why don't you read K's posts CAREFULLY. she is not making a personal attack, she is merely using Crystal's previous posts and displaying the inconsistencies within.

Why are you so up in arms about it? Please tell me exactly what you think is so harsh about K's posts. Not that K needs anyone to stick up for her, but you can't just state something and not be able to back it up.