how to pick a dog guide

[Queen Bitch]

Most of the faults you list for a breed Jill apply to EVERY breed and all dogs in general. Vicious is a fault in all breeds, if you use it for one breed you should use it for all. In the AmStaff listing, you say that "powerful jaw and body strength can inflict horrible wounds" but you don't say the same thing about similarly sized breeds, even those that originated as guard dogs. Also, you really need to clarify on faults, your site isn't consistant in the least. With some breeds the characteristics aren't seperated, the list just runs on with no notation of it being a fault. The way it is set up is confusing and makes it sound to the lay person that EVERY example of that breed has that trait. Some breeds don't even have faults listed. MeiMei's suggestion regarding phrasing was excellent.

I think the main reason that the guide hasn't been mentioned is who would be comfortable taking advice from someone that does barely any research, just skims the surface and allows falsehood myths to be perpetuated as truth? In some cases the spelling of the breed name isn't even right. For a site that uses the title "dogs in depth" it is quite the opposite. For as minimal as the breed descriptions are, I have a very hard time believing that there was 20 minutes of research done on them, much less 20 hours. But if you want us to talk about the guide.........
I found at least a couple grammatical errors and some sentances that flat out just don't make sense. There are also a few other things I take issue with:
[quote]Consider how you might obtain one.
Wherever, inspect the premises for cleanliness. If you cannot travel to the location of the litter and inspect the premises, ask for references and contact them regarding the breeder/rescue/store.[/quote]
This is the first sentence pertaining to the obtaining of a dog. You have the word store listed. Further down, you list pet stores and commercial breeders as a viable place to get a dog. Those are places that should be avoided at ALL costs. Puppymills, or commercial breeders as you say, are horrible places that should not be supported by anyone.

Under rescues in the guide, you don't mention that as an offshoot of being in a rescue that the dogs are already spayed/neutered and vetted. Many times they also have some basic training down. I would elaborate more in your descriptions.

Under small kennels, you reccommend that people try to meet the parents of thier pup. That's great in theory, but most small kennels/breeders don't breed thier own dogs together, instead they find a dog that best suits thier dogs traits. Meeting both parents is sometimes not possible because of that. If the breeder does have both dogs, I would be somewhat suspicious. Generally, those who have both parents are backyard breeders and are not doing anything to better the breed. You also don't have a list of questions to ask the breeder, you only suggest asking how long they have been breeding that particular breed and there are WAY more questions that should be asked. You say that a good way to get a referral for a good breeder is to ask a rescue org. reccommended by a national breed club. Huh? I don't know of any rescue that gives breeder referrals. Logically that should read: To find a reputable breeder find one reccommended by the national breed club. Is that what you meant?

When you list off the breed groups, you list nonsporting as : "miscellaneous category, just not like the others"

It really sounds like you didn't put any thought into that listing. Yes, the nonsporting group is a sort of catchall, but your phrasing is extremely vague. It would be better to describe it as a varied group of dogs that don't nessisarily fit into the other categories.

You may have seen the aftermath of dog bites etc, but since your site is billed as encylopedia/reference and not as a personal home page, shouldn't you be offering information in an objective manner?


Oh and Dalmatian is still misspelled on your A-Z list.

[leahluvsherpups]

Since Kat already touched on the Border Collie I wont. but I agree with what she said.

As for the Australian Shepherd among other misconceptions listed, they are NOT good with kids. They are almost identical to the Border Collie in every aspect except for maybe the itelligence level.;)

If you must know I have two of each breed so I guess you could consider me an expert.

[kendalyn]

[quote name='Hillside']Most of the faults you list for a breed Jill apply to EVERY breed and all dogs in general. Vicious is a fault in all breeds, if you use it for one breed you should use it for all.[/quote]
Exactly!

[Guest Anonymous]

site is in progress. need expanded info and to add the 400 more dogs in the database. all your insights are most appreciated. still think there is a real need for this info and many people say the 'guide to selecting the right dog' helped them.

as personalities are subjective, only after much of the same info is received is it posted.
sources are worldwide kennels clubs, documentation, rescue personnel, handlers, breeders and vets.

should anyone see any inaccuracies or spelling errors, I most welcome any notification as I am dedicated to making the site accurate, and will make adjustments after research and verification of the input. If you have special credentials - your insights are most greatly appreciated. thank you all once again.

[kendalyn]

I guess we'll just have to check back and see if you've taken any of our advice. :-?

[Guest Anonymous]

there is an "Ask the Vet" section planned for the dogsindepth.com site but not launched yet. As a thank you for all your insights-and please, don't hesitate to let me know how it can be improved, I am curious as to what other dog names might be spelled incorrectly or what other misconceptions you all believe to be posted, because I have painstakingly been doing years of research and know most of it to be correct-one of my guest veterinarian specialists is offering to answer any questions about your dog's health should any of you be in dior need. There is no charge for this service. As I do not yet have an 'Ask the Vet' section, the doctor will answer any questions in the 'dog lovers helping dog lovers' section of the forums. [url]http://www.dogsindepth.com/forums/[/url].
Please only ask if you are really in need of expert health advice. Her time is limited. More basic behavior and training problems will be answered by our lay staff and members.
I offer this to you all for your kind concern and the valuable insights that you all have afforded me, please keep them coming. Your hardcore critiques are most greatfully appreciated as it is extremely important to me that this site is accurate! I'll be back with some questions and/or comments or adjustment info over the weekend.

[Guest Anonymous]

[quote name='hillside']:o Jill, Jill, Jill, I see your breed descriptions are STILL grossly inaccurate. You have not changed any of the blatent falsehoods that we brought to your attention the last time you were here.[/quote]
Hi Hillside,
Thanks for your response, and for the spelling error correction. Might you expand on any 'falsehoods' you see that are presently on the site or any other breeds spelled incorrectly? thanks,
jill

[Guest Anonymous]

[quote name='Shannon_C'][quote name='hillside']:o Jill, Jill, Jill, I see your breed descriptions are STILL grossly inaccurate. You have not changed any of the blatent falsehoods that we brought to your attention the last time you were here.[/quote]
[color=darkred]I did notice with the Bullmastiff [/color]:roll:[/quote]
Hi Shannon_C,
I'm not sure what Bullmastiff falsehoods you are referring to. I welcome your comments as it is my goal to maintain an accurate site.
Thanks,
jill

[Guest Anonymous]

[quote name='DivineOblivion19'][color=indigo]It still says Rotties are human aggressive...:roll:[/color][/quote]

yes, sorry...here's one of my sources and quote:
[url]http://www.akc.org/breeds/rottweiler/index.cfm[/url]
"A dog that in the opinion of the judge menaces or threatens him/her, or exhibits any sign that it may not be safely approached or examined by the judge in the normal manner, shall be excused from the ring."
makes you wonder, after all that champion breeding and training this is still included in the Rottweiler page of the American Kennel Club
jill

[Guest Anonymous]

[quote name='DivineOblivion19'][color=indigo]I agree with Hillside! We were unhappy last time you posted and we will remain that way. :roll:

Boston Terriers were not bred for ratting and companionship. They were originally bred for fighting but ultimately became a companion dog. They were [b]never[/b] used for ratting. I'm not quite sure where you got that info... You may be interested in this site [url]http://www.barkbytes.com/history/boston.htm[/url].

I'm also disgusted that you say the Rottweiler is shy, nervous, and aggressive toward humans and not good with other animals. I see a lot of Rotties every week and it is extremely rare to see one of that temperament.

Those are my two favorite breeds and your info is incorrect. Feel free to change it at any time so you stop misleading people who don't know any better.[/color] :-?[/quote]
after extended research and as a result of your kind insights I made some adjustments to the Boston Terrier page. As for the Rottie, kindly see my response to Shannon_C.
jill

[Guest Anonymous]

[quote name='jilld'][quote name='DivineOblivion19'][color=indigo]I agree with Hillside! We were unhappy last time you posted and we will remain that way. :roll:

Boston Terriers were not bred for ratting and companionship. They were originally bred for fighting but ultimately became a companion dog. They were [b]never[/b] used for ratting. I'm not quite sure where you got that info... You may be interested in this site [url]http://www.barkbytes.com/history/boston.htm[/url].

I'm also disgusted that you say the Rottweiler is shy, nervous, and aggressive toward humans and not good with other animals. I see a lot of Rotties every week and it is extremely rare to see one of that temperament.
sorry: "A judge shall excuse from the ring any shy Rottweiler. A dog shall be judged fundamentally shy if, refusing to stand for examination, it shrinks away from the judge. " also from the akc page as well as: "An aggressive or belligerent attitude towards other dogs should not be faulted. "--jill


Those are my two favorite breeds and your info is incorrect. Feel free to change it at any time so you stop misleading people who don't know any better.[/color] :-?[/quote]
after extended research and as a result of your kind insights I made some adjustments to the Boston Terrier page. As for the Rottie, kindly see my response to Shannon_C.
jill[/quote]

[Guest Anonymous]

[quote name='DivineOblivion19'][color=indigo]I agree. A lot of the things that are written about each breed ends up contradicting itself.[/color]

[quote]gentle, affable, gregarious, family-oriented, outgoing, eager-to-please, willing to learn, adaptable, water-loving, loyal, dependable, easy to train, . faults: aggressive, shy[/quote]

[color=indigo]That is what you said about the Labrador. How can this breed be so positive but also aggressive and shy? I don't understand where you're going with it. Things need to be stated differently IMO. [/color][/quote]
faults refers to what negative traits can be found in the breed.
jill

[Guest Anonymous]

[quote name='ObedienceGrrl']Take "family" out for Lhasas! They are not good with children.

Even the national breed rescue REFUSES to place any lhasa with someone who has a child under 12 visiting or even just a neighbor.

And the hairless Chinese Crested is not good for people with dog allergies. Most people are allergic to dog saliva along with dander. That is a reason why we get so many CCs in our rescue. People think they are hypo-allergenic. They are not![/quote]

[url]http://www.lhasaapso.org/[/url]
"5. Are Lhasas good with children?

As a general rule, Lhasas tend to attach themselves to the adults in the family rather than to the children. Because children smell differently from adults, some dogs can become confused about where the kids fit into the family "pack." Furthermore, small dogs of all breeds tend to be cautious, and sometimes fearful of pre-schoolers because they are unsteady on their feet, move quickly, and do unexpected things. Experienced breeders generally have a good idea which puppy in a litter will do best in a family environment with children. Lhasa puppies that are raised with children, and where the interaction is closely supervised, can become successfully integrated into the family. "
thank you for your insight, I have added to that they are good with children that 'are trained to respect the dog or puppy'. Saying they are not good with family would be unfair to the breed, and antithetical to one of the United States most authoritative Lhasa organizations. Thank you kindly for the heads up regarding kids, that was a most excellent insight!

[Guest Anonymous]

[quote name='Jessashelony']American Pit Bull Terrier

[quote]this dog can be very gentle and affectionate but unfortunately humans developed the breed to fight other dogs and so are considered one of the [b]most aggressive of all dog breeds and have the highest incidence of human attacks.[/b] they have powerful jaws and when they do attack it is hard to break them free. as an alternative, [b]the american staffordshire terrier is very similar but the aggression has been [i]bred out[/i][/b][/quote]

What a CROCK...

You also put they are not good with kids, which is one of the breeds main traits is that they ARE good with kids.. There are always exceptions, but the breed as a whole are considered good with children. You can not put up your opinions on a breed and spout them as facts.[/quote]

I'm so sorry, but this breed is outlawed in some countries and cities in the world. It also has the largest incidence of human biting. There are probably many that have never bitten, but with the stats out there it would be irresponsible to state that they are safe with kids, sorry...and once again I am even sorrier because this breed was made this way by humans.

[Guest Anonymous]

[quote name='DivineOblivion19'][quote name='jilld'][quote name='DivineOblivion19'][color=indigo]It still says Rotties are human aggressive...:roll:[/color][/quote]

yes, sorry...here's one of my sources and quote:
[url]http://www.akc.org/breeds/rottweiler/index.cfm[/url]
"A dog that in the opinion of the judge menaces or threatens him/her, or exhibits any sign that it may not be safely approached or examined by the judge in the normal manner, shall be excused from the ring."
makes you wonder, after all that champion breeding and training this is still included in the Rottweiler page of the American Kennel Club
jill[/quote]

[color=indigo]I'm sorry, it doesn't say in there "aggressive towards humans." I think that simply stating that the Rottie can be aloof with strangers is the best way. Like other guarding breeds some of them prefer their own family. Although I must say, probably 80% of Rotties that I've met are not aloof at all. :wink:

Also, you need not get me (or others on this board, for that matter) started with the AKC. I understand you are looking at their site for guidance, but a lot of people don't agree with the AKC and their practices. Neither do we agree with the sad breeding programs spitting out these "champion dogs."[/color] :-?[/quote]



lol, ok, with your feeling about the AKC I see how you might not qualify a judge as a human! hee hee

[courtnek]

I personally would not rely on AKC breed standards without a strong disclaimer. Labs are USUALLY good with kids, not always. A Lab that show shyness is not breed standard, and ALL dogs should come with disclaimers that if they are not trained, they will not react according to breed standards. just my take...

[gooeydog]

[quote]Saying they are not good with family would be unfair to the breed, and antithetical to one of the United States most authoritative Lhasa organizations.[/quote]
Since you put so much emphasis on what breed organizations have to say about their breed, the following quotes may interest you...
From the UKC, second largest all breed registry, first registry to accept the American Pit Bull Terrier:
[i]"APBTs make excellent family companions and have always been noted for their love of children.... The APBT is not the best choice for a guard dog since they are extremely friendly, even with strangers. Aggressive behavior toward humans is uncharacteristic of the breed and highly undesirable." [/i]

Now, to address the other mistruths in your posts. In the interest of simplicity, I'll do this bit by bit.
[quote]I'm so sorry, but this breed is outlawed in some countries and cities in the world[/quote]
Yes, as are dozens of other breeds. Care for a small list?
Germany (actually all these dogs are simply restricted): American Staffordshire Terrier Pitbull Terrier, Staffordshire Bullterrier, Bullterrier , Mastino Napolitano , Mastino Espanol , Bordeaux Dogge , Dogo Argentino , Fila Brasileiro , Roman Combat Dog, Chinese Combat Dog, Bandog , Tosa Inu Akbas , Berger de Brie (Briard) , Berger de Beauce (Beauceron) , Bullmastiff , Carpatin , Dobermann , Estrela Mountain Dog , Kangal , Caucasian Ovtcharka , Middle Asian Ovtcharka , South-Russian Ovtscharka , Karakatschan , Karshound , Komondor , Kraski Ovcar , Kuvasz , Liptak (The Goral's Dog) , Maremmo , Mastiff , Mastin de los Pirineos , Mioritic , Polski Owczarek Podhalanski , Pyrenees Mountain Dog , Raffeiro do Alentejo , Rottweiler , Slovensky Cuvac , Sarplaninac , Tibetan Mastiff , Tornjak, some places there restrict all dogs over 40 lbs and a certain height.
USA: No one state has completely banned specific breeds, but individual cities will ban or restrict any number of supposed "dangerous" breeds, including but not limited to: pit bulls, German Shepherds, Doberman Pinschers, Rottweilers, Chow Chows, Akitas, Sharpeis, Huskies, Malamutes, Great Danes, Mastiffs of varying types
Italy: 92 breeds total are restricted, including Border Collies, St. Bernards, Corgis, pit bulls, Newfoundlands, among others.

The only thing proved by a breed being banned or restricted in an area is that lawmakers enjoy spending taxpayers' money on ineffective laws rather than actually seeking to solve the problem at its root.

[quote]It also has the largest incidence of human biting.[/quote]
No. I'm unable to remember where there were actual dog bite stats, but I know Labrador Retrievers, German Shepherds, and several small breed dogs ranked higher than pit bulls in non-fatal dog bites in all the data I've seen on it. "pit bulls" did have the highest or second highest incidence of human fatality over a 20 yr span, but considering that in the most commonly referred to DBRF stats, 3 or 4 different breeds and any dog that resembles those breeds are lumped into one "pit bull dog" category, you cannot accurately deem that the APBT breed was responsible for all those bites. That is like blaming the Malamute breed for all attacks made by big fluffy dogs. It is inaccurate and irresponsible to report such mistruths as fact.

[ESSlover]

[quote]physical traits: powerful, compact body, docked tail [/quote]

Not always, yes that is the AKC.. but its up to the breeder to decide about tail docking :wink:

[quote]hair type: outer coat: silky, firm, medium length with long feathering. inner coat: short, soft, dense [/quote]

Ok.. maybe i'm just stupid.. but springers have a double layered coat? :-?
[quote]personality/
temperament: love attention, active, gregarious, friendly, eager-to-please, endurance, reserved with strangers, stamina. faults: aggressive, timid [/quote]

My springer is not "reserved with strangers" at all.. He will greet a theft like it was his own family :lol:

[quote]
maintenance/
special needs:
regular brushing and ear cleaning, exercise, destructive if deprived of mental and physical stimulation [/quote]

Deff. true... Carson goes CRAZY if you dont give him a mental puzzle everyday.

[quote]bred for: game flushing and retrieving, companion, gundog [/quote]

Companionship? I'm not sure about that one.. they were mostly bred as field dogs :wink:

[quote]ideal for: family, good companion, gun dog, city (with plenty of exercise) or country life any climate, watchdog [/quote]

Hmm... city isnt as much. They need TONS of exersize. May want to add in that they need plenty of exerisize no matter where they are...


I'm not gonna go on about the other breeds.. just wanted to add my 2 cents about mine :D

[ESSlover]

[quote name='gooeydog']Italy: 92 breeds total are restricted, including Border Collies, St. Bernards, Corgis, pit bulls, Newfoundlands, among others.
[/quote]

:o Corgis?! I am now never moving to Italy. :lol: Great post though, Gooey.

[pomeranians]

[quote name='gooeydog']Yes, as are dozens of other breeds. Care for a small list?
Germany (actually all these dogs are simply restricted): American Staffordshire Terrier Pitbull Terrier, Staffordshire Bullterrier, Bullterrier , Mastino Napolitano , Mastino Espanol , Bordeaux Dogge , Dogo Argentino , Fila Brasileiro , Roman Combat Dog, Chinese Combat Dog, Bandog , Tosa Inu Akbas , Berger de Brie (Briard) , Berger de Beauce (Beauceron) , Bullmastiff , Carpatin , Dobermann , Estrela Mountain Dog , Kangal , Caucasian Ovtcharka , Middle Asian Ovtcharka , South-Russian Ovtscharka , Karakatschan , Karshound , Komondor , Kraski Ovcar , Kuvasz , Liptak (The Goral's Dog) , Maremmo , Mastiff , Mastin de los Pirineos , Mioritic , Polski Owczarek Podhalanski , Pyrenees Mountain Dog , Raffeiro do Alentejo , Rottweiler , Slovensky Cuvac , Sarplaninac , Tibetan Mastiff , Tornjak, some places there restrict all dogs over 40 lbs and a certain height.[/quote]

Alright, are my eyes fooling me, or did I see the name Malamute in that list? They are the sweetest, most loving dogs in the world, and they are suposedly "dangerous"... :roll:

[imported_Debbie]

Well here I go again..........
I think we went through this the first time you posted here about your site.

You still have inaccurate info on your site and I wouldn't suggest anyone looking for a dog to look at it.........
And just for the record, I'm not a breeder. Just a lover of the breed.

JRT, you've got them as being 11-15in. WRONG !!!
Jack Russell Terriers are 10-12in. Parson Russell Terriers are 12-15in.
Colors- They have to be 51% white with tan, black (or both) markings.
The whiter the better.
Coats- There are 3 types; Smooth, Rough, and Broken.

Faults ??? Vicious ? OVERLY snappy ??? AGGRESSIVE to humans ?????

I DISAGREE. Maybe you should pay a visit to JRO, or JRS........
Survey the people who own JRT's/PRT's......... :roll:

Nicknames .....Puddin's/Shorties are nicknames for JRT's NOT PRT's
And what the hell is a PUD ???? I know what it means here in the U.S.... :oops:

Kids.....Not good with kids.........bullsh*t.
I do daycare and know plenty of people with JRT's and kids.
There could be breeds of all dogs that aren't good with kids......give me a break. So fast they could trip a kid........Wow, you're really reaching there....... :roll:

So again, I don't foresee you changing a thing on your site. Just like the last time.........
This'll be the last time I waste my time typing the inaccuracies........ :-?

[BuddysMom]

I only visited the home page. Thank you for encouraging rescuing and adopting. Your site judging by the home page alone seems to be based on a good premise but FAR too wordy. Very few have time to read all that especially in smallish type. Cull the words that people here are taking exception to (rightfully) and you may end up with a helpful website!

I REALLY wish that, under your category "pet stores and commercial kennels" you would just say do not buy from them, period.

I didn't go into your breed descriptions. Not in general a purebred lover (the exception may be border collie). However from my experience you can't assign such detailed traits to any breed. At best I would say "May tend to be...", "Somre report to be...", etc. From the quotes here I would say many of your assertions are ridiculous and possibly dangerous. Learn about qualifiers and attributions, then use them.

[kendalyn]

Jill you are taking a lot of license with this information.

[quote]"A dog that in the opinion of the judge menaces or threatens him/her, or exhibits any sign that it may not be safely approached or examined by the judge in the normal manner, shall be excused from the ring."
makes you wonder, after all that champion breeding and training this is still included in the Rottweiler page of the American Kennel Club :x[/quote]
You can't just assume that because this is listed on the website that all Rottweiler's tend to be human aggressive. They are a guarding breed and definately can bite (as can all breeds) but nowhere in the information that you posted does it say they are human aggressive. I'm sure the AKC would not be happy with you taking this information and twisting it to mean whatever you want.

You did the same thing with the Lhasa Apso information but sort of corrected it.

Overall you are interpreting this information to mean what you want it to and are grossly misrepresenting your sources. Although you should be crediting all of them, it's probably a good thing you're not because they wouldn't be very happy after seeing what you've done.

I think a better idea for your site would be to go to all the breed clubs and ask them for the information you want and then post exactly what they said. You do not know enough about any of these breeds to be taking the license that you are.

[Guest Mutts4Me]

[quote name='jilld']
I'm so sorry, but this breed is outlawed in some countries and cities in the world. [b]It also has the largest incidence of human biting[/b]. .[/quote]

No it doesn't. It may have the highest % of fatal attacks (or at least pit bull-type dogs), but not of bites. As mentioned, Labradors probably have the largest % of reported bites, but mind you, the reported bites are not very reliable, as they tend not to include bites from little dogs, which in general are much more likely to bite than most bigger dogs, especially something like a Pit Bull.

You can believe and/or twist little bits and pieces of what you find on the internet, or you can listen to people who've worked around a variety of dogs. We have people who have worked at grooming salons and vet offices, etc, and they're the ones you should be listening to. I know I've only been at the grooming salon for a few months and I already know which breeds are the most likely to bite me (Dachshunds and Min Pins), and which ones I can do anything to and not have to worry about seeing teeth, ever (Pit Bulls - except I do see teeth when they try to kiss my face constantly). I've also been bitten by Labradors and Goldens. Who'da thunk it, huh?

[pyrless]

sigh.
all right. i hate to do this too, but here is some corrected information for you:
The Great Pyr's weight range is 85-110 in a female and 100-130 in a male.
"Obedient" is not a word anyone would use to describe a Pyr. Ever. Good luck.
"Aggressive" needs to be changed to "dog-aggressive." A Pyr should never be aggressive towards a person. Ever.
They also have quite a slow metabolism for their size and do not need "lots" of food.
The Pyr is not a "cross" of the Maremma, Kuvasz or Akbash, though similar to those breeds they developed independently of each other through being isolated in their respective territories.
Sasha (see left) lives in Cleveland and is quite a happy city dog.
The description of the Elkhound is pretty right-on though.
I know you are trying to do good and I appreciate that.