courtnek Posted June 13, 2004 Share Posted June 13, 2004 well, I dont. Free has never backed down from a fight, even from Alex who was almost twice her size. That's why I wouldnt trust her around a Pit. She thinks she's invincible....I dont let her run loose for that very reason. And only once let her loose in a dog park. She's mellowed some since Laurel came, but if a Pit challenged her she'd take it on without a seconds hesitation. As she would any other dog. She is very fast on her feet, and maneuvers like a prize fighter, but I dont let her fight. Laurel likes every creature ever born (except fox of course) and wants to commune with all of them, but is afraid of some people....she stands there wagging her tail when the two Chi's next door (spoiled, with major attitudes) try to attack her through the fence.... **sigh** Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheekymunkee Posted June 13, 2004 Share Posted June 13, 2004 Mine understand "dog speak" as well. They may or may not LISTEN but it is obvious they understand it. Ollie (non pit bull) & Munkee talk to each other all the time though body language & eye signals. Sometimes Munkee respects what she is saying, sometimes he doesn't. Same with Justice, she get really rowdy with Ollie, Ollie will give her signals to cut it out & she will react to them. Sometimes she will back off of her rowdiness, sometimes she will leave her alone all together & sometimes she ignores her. Mine have all of the equisite canine interaction skills they need & they use them. Not only with each other but with my neighbor's dogs as well. Granted, they are seperated by fences but they are still communicating. On one side of me live a pit mix & a dobie mix. The dobie is getting on in years but she still loves to run the fence with Munkee. Some days she doesn't feel up to it & she conveys this to Munkee. He understands this or he would be standing at the fence, trying to get her to run instead of going about his business. He prefers to run with her over the pit mix but if she isn't up to it he will run with the pit mix. However, on every return trip he will stop, play bow & try to get her to run but he isn't obsessive over it as he would be if he wasn't "hearing" what she is saying. Chosing not to listen & not understanding are two different things. Debby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted June 13, 2004 Share Posted June 13, 2004 [quote name='odnarb']Also wanted to address this point that HAzelNutMeg said... [quote]UGH, your crap is really starting to tick me off Primmy! ALL DOGS SPEAK THE SAME LANGUAGE!!! They can even comunicate with wolves! Only to a certain degree though. Some dogs speak more "Wolfish" and some less. Usually it's the smaller breeds that speak less, and therefore have less comunication skills when it comes to warnings, but no dog has had this "bred out of them". Sibes, believe it or not - it's not just a coinkidink that they LOOK more like a wolf - speak closest to "Wolfish" but all dogs speak "Dogish" INCLUDING PIT BULLS![/quote] No, all dogs DON'T speak the same language. Different breeds DO interact differently, different breeds have different mannerisms. Harry relates best to my mom's Kelpie mix. I wonder why that is?[/quote] you Obviously DID NOT READ WHAT I WROTE! go back and read it!! I clearly stated that some breeds can comunicate better than others, but none DONT SPEAK DOG! They can all get their point across to eachother, just some take a bit more time to figure it out than others. It's not that your bullies DON'T UNDERSTAND, it's that they are obnoxious (and I don't mean this in a rude way, almost all bull + terrier breeds are! It's the terrier attitude!). They know very well what your friend's dog is saying, they just chose to ignore it because they are obnoxious, it wasnt' bred out of them to understand though, they DO understand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odnarb Posted June 13, 2004 Share Posted June 13, 2004 [quote name='HazelNutMeg'] you Obviously DID NOT READ WHAT I WROTE! go back and read it!! I clearly stated that some breeds can comunicate better than others, but none DONT SPEAK DOG! They can all get their point across to eachother, just some take a bit more time to figure it out than others.[/quote] Sometimes a bit more time is the difference between a dead dog and a live dog. [quote]It's not that your bullies DON'T UNDERSTAND, it's that they are obnoxious (and I don't mean this in a rude way, almost all bull + terrier breeds are! It's the terrier attitude!). They know very well what your friend's dog is saying, they just chose to ignore it because they are obnoxious, it wasnt' bred out of them to understand though, they DO understand.[/quote] I initially wrote: [i]And what would you say if I told you that I observe the very behavior she describes in my own bulldogs? Some either can't, or they blatantly ignore what the other dog is telling them.[/i] I would tend to believe that they ignore as opposed to misunderstand. I know that Grant understands his commands for French Ringsport, he just blatantly ignores me. LMAO But the point is, excuses are being made, and an arguement is being based on semantics. Primmy states: [quote]The essential difference with pit bulls, however, is that they have been intentionally bred to be oblivious to the normal dog language and to not respond to the normal ways that dogs settle these little disagreements. [/quote] The definition of oblivious is... [i]1. Lacking all memory; forgetful. 2. Lacking conscious awareness; unmindful. [/i] Thesaurus.com says... [i]Entry: oblivious Function: adjective Definition: ignorant Synonyms: absent, absent-minded, absorbed, abstracted, amnesic, blind, blundering, careless, deaf, disregardful, distracted, dreamy, forgetful, forgetting, gone, heedless, inattentive, incognizant, inconversant, insensible, neglectful, negligent, overlooking, preoccupied, regardless, spacey, strung out, unacquainted, unaware, unconcerned, unconscious, undiscerning, unfamiliar, uninformed, uninstructed, unknowing, unmindful, unnoticing, unobservant, unrecognizing, unwitting, zonked Concept: ignorance [/i] Same friggin' arguement. If primmy said that the sky was blue, people would argue that it was azure. It's all about the arguement. It makes pit bull owners look bad. If we want the breed to survive, we need to put on our best Walmart greeter smiles and show the world that we aren't a bunch of arguementive thugs, and present the facts in a non-confrontational way. Making excuses and arguing both sides isn't going to save us. Fact of the matter is, our dogs should not spend time in dog parks because they lack communication skills. If they were masters at canine language, playing with the other nice doggies would be a nonissue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odnarb Posted June 13, 2004 Share Posted June 13, 2004 [quote name='Mei-Mei'] I'm relatively positive it's that they blatantly ignore what the other dog is telling them. A dog that could not understand other doggie signs would pretty much be absolutely lost, a monster that would be nearly impossible to control. It would amount to dog autism. My son is autistic, and he can't relate to people in a normal way. I just can't see this in a dog. I've been around a lot of dogs and though they can be stubborn, mean, and scarily independent, I've never seen [b]ONE[/b] that does not understand dog language.[/quote] And in all honesty, I have seen and heard of APBTs that fit this bill perfectly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsefeathers! Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 [quote name='odnarb'] we need to put on our best Walmart greeter smiles [/quote] My new favorite quote. Thanks. 8) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheekymunkee Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 [quote]Fact of the matter is, our dogs should not spend time in dog parks because they lack communication skills. If they were masters at canine language, playing with the other nice doggies would be a nonissue[/quote] Our dogs should not spend time in dog parks because they have the potential to be dog aggressive, not because they lack communication skills. If they lack communication skills, how is it that they can be around each other at all? Your dogs seem to be fine around each other, if they aren't communicating, how is it possible? For the most part, Primmies post was correct, BUT I will not sit back & smile while someone spreads false information about my breed. If that makes me a thug, then I'll change my nickname to C-Dawg. Word :wink: Debby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LisaH Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 It's all a matter of opinion. My personal belief is that they [b]can[/b] read other dogs-but choose to ignore it. The desire to fight is stronger. It's all just conjecture-as close as we are to our dogs, we sometimes can't read their minds :) And it's not just Pit Bulls who do it and not just Pit Bulls who will continue to keep fighting a dog that is clearly showing submission. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odnarb Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 [quote name='Horsefeathers!'] My new favorite quote. Thanks. 8)[/quote] No prob :lol: I am also perfecting my Miss America wave. "Hello world! I am Princess Pit Bull!" :hand: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtnek Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 to those who dont have WalMarts, it's a department store. There is usually a "greeter" at the door, who hands you a shopping cart and says something like "hope your shopping with us is a pleasant experience". Often they are elderly retired people, just trying to earn a few extra bucks. 8) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LisaH Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 My experience with Pit Bull puppies-even puppies who have matured into dog aggression as adults is that they [b] do [/b] understand dog behaviour. As puppies, they display submission, know to leave the older dogs food alone, know that a growl from an older dog means to cut it out and they listen. It's when they grow into adults and start to display dog aggression that they start ignoring signals other dogs give. I don't believe that they suddenly "forget" the behaviours and what they mean. I think they "choose" to ignore them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odnarb Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 [quote name='cheekymunkee'] Our dogs should not spend time in dog parks because they have the potential to be dog aggressive, not because they lack communication skills.[/quote] Then why don't they acknowledge the dog that is belly up urinating on itself? [quote]If they lack communication skills, how is it that they can be around each other at all? Your dogs seem to be fine around each other, if they aren't communicating, how is it possible?[/quote] Define "fine." My dogs WILL fight with each other, I control the environment to a great degree. And if not directly supervising, seperate! My own dogs ignore each other's pleas of "uncle." They aren't really allowed to roughhouse much anymore. It escalates WAY too quickly. [quote]For the most part, Primmies post was correct, BUT I will not sit back & smile while someone spreads false information about my breed. If that makes me a thug, then I'll change my nickname to C-Dawg. Word :wink: Debby[/quote] Just remember, JQP reads these boards. We can't say that she is full of crap, when you yourself admit that for the most part she was corrrect. If I was JQP and read this, I would think that all these folks were stupid and ignorant when it comes to dog behavior. Adress the individual points where she is correct, and go ahead and blast what is incorrect. :evilbat: Perhaps the smile was a bit to strong? How about be civil? lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odnarb Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 [quote name='LisaH'] It's all just conjecture-as close as we are to our dogs, we sometimes can't read their minds :)[/quote] And, how right you are! [quote]And it's not just Pit Bulls who do it and not just Pit Bulls who will continue to keep fighting a dog that is clearly showing submission.[/quote] Again, you are right. It just happens to be very common in the pit bull. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsefeathers! Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 [quote name='courtnek']to those who dont have WalMarts, it's a department store. There is usually a "greeter" at the door, who hands you a shopping cart and says something like "hope your shopping with us is a pleasant experience". Often they are elderly retired people, just trying to earn a few extra bucks. 8)[/quote] You must have a different chain of Wal*Marts than we do. The greeters that stand in the front of ours were hired on to stand at the front and look menacing. They are like those palace guards over in England with their glazed expressions and wouldn't smile or speak if their lives depended on it. They undergo special training in how to grimace, snarl and look as intimidating as possible while at the same time they file all the buggy wheels to be perfectly square so they have that neat little clack clack clack thing going when you're shopping. Our greeters also undergo rigorous physical training so as to be able to dash out the door and nab those rotten ne'er do wells who dared walk out of the store empty handed for surely they must have shoved merchandise in their pockets. Who knew there were two different chains of Wally Worlds in the US? :o Sorry... back on topic. Pit Bulls, yeah, they rock n' stuff. :bigok: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odnarb Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 [quote name='Mei-Mei'] I suppose I'm sensitive about this since I'm so familiar with lack of communication on the part of humans. I know I can't translate my son's inability to speak, sign, read or write to dog communication, but the comparison is somewhat apt. I don't understand how a dog could not understand dog language. Wouldn't it logically follow that a dog that didn't understand dog language wouldn't exhibit dog language? No tail wagging, no growling over a bone. No whining puppies (whining is communication), no face licking (also communication). How could a dog not understand communication, but use it? It may be possible, but I just can't see it. :-? I think some pit bulls lack [b][i]social[/i][/b] skills, not [b][i]communication[/i][/b] skills.[/quote] You have a point, and are probably correct. [quote]Also, as per Primmy, I don't think people argue with her for the sake of argument. [/quote] I've been posting on boards with primrose for about 7 years, and people will definately argue with her for the sake of arguing. I've seen sensible folks post the most assinine things just cuz primrose said the opposite. [quote]There have been many, many times that people on this site (even in this thread!) have agreed with her assessment of pit bulls. What some object to is her tendency to stereotype bully owners and also her absolute dedication to fighting and controversy. Frankly I'm interested in hearing what she has to say. If only she didn't feel as though she needed to imitate the bad representatives of the breed she excoriates..... :)[/quote] LOL, perhaps she lacks social skills, too :roflt: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LisaH Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 Yes-I absolutely agree that a lot of what Primmy says is accurate when it comes to Pit Bulls. After all-she learnt it all from doing what she is doing here :lol: It's the spin and nuances she puts on her posts when describing them. THAT is what people object to-rightly so in my opinion. Terms such as murderously aggressive, brain damaged, describing Pit Bull owners as sociopathic losers, etc. It's not what she says a lot of the time it's how she says it. And she is perfectly aware of what she is doing. And this is my last post on Primmy. After hearing the same old stuff from her for the past 3 years-I don't find it hard to ignore her. She enjoys the attention too much for me to be willing to give it to her :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odnarb Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 [quote name='Horsefeathers!'] You must have a different chain of Wal*Marts than we do. The greeters that stand in the front of ours were hired on to stand at the front and look menacing. They are like those palace guards over in England with their glazed expressions and wouldn't smile or speak if their lives depended on it. They undergo special training in how to grimace, snarl and look as intimidating as possible while at the same time they file all the buggy wheels to be perfectly square so they have that neat little clack clack clack thing going when you're shopping. Our greeters also undergo rigorous physical training so as to be able to dash out the door and nab those rotten ne'er do wells who dared walk out of the store empty handed for surely they must have shoved merchandise in their pockets. [/quote] Geez, no wonder you found my quote so amusing. I meant smile like that nice senior citizen that is handing you a shopping cart :o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheekymunkee Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 [quote] Adress the individual points where she is correct, and go ahead and blast what is incorrect.[/quote] I did that, well...sort of, I quoted the part that I had a problem with. [quote]My own dogs ignore each other's pleas of "uncle." [/quote] If they lacked communication skills, there would be no pleas of uncle. It would be an all out fight. They know exactly what the other is saying, they just chose to ignore it. Just like kids, I may KNOW that the punch in the arm hurt like hell but I'm going to give you another one anyway. I have seen Hartagold post pictures of her dogs lying on the sofa, piled on top of her boyfriend. They seem to be communicating. I know she has very well trained dogs but there HAS to be some communicating going on between them for them to lie so content. Debby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheekymunkee Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 [quote name='odnarb'][quote name='Horsefeathers!'] You must have a different chain of Wal*Marts than we do. The greeters that stand in the front of ours were hired on to stand at the front and look menacing. They are like those palace guards over in England with their glazed expressions and wouldn't smile or speak if their lives depended on it. They undergo special training in how to grimace, snarl and look as intimidating as possible while at the same time they file all the buggy wheels to be perfectly square so they have that neat little clack clack clack thing going when you're shopping. Our greeters also undergo rigorous physical training so as to be able to dash out the door and nab those rotten ne'er do wells who dared walk out of the store empty handed for surely they must have shoved merchandise in their pockets. [/quote] Geez, no wonder you found my quote so amusing. I meant smile like that nice senior citizen that is handing you a shopping cart :o[/quote] Nazi WalMart greeters! :D Debby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsefeathers! Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 [quote name='odnarb'] Geez, no wonder you found my quote so amusing. I meant smile like that nice senior citizen that is handing you a shopping cart :o[/quote] [img]http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0YQC5Am8fNzPYgl35Oidq!N7H1Bm7INlQ0itupAvUxoyZ0FSxhyvRi2WSlt21an*NKsqMPD963RTzRgoJp1SZQnVNkF4ulph7umD!gxMaplnjdhLkpm8!7ED1pO*T8hCbHQ0RM9VsJ1qIhpYaR7RiYw/dog%20snicker.gif?dc=4675441322176083087[/img] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtnek Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 [quote name='cheekymunkee'][quote name='odnarb'][quote name='Horsefeathers!'] You must have a different chain of Wal*Marts than we do. The greeters that stand in the front of ours were hired on to stand at the front and look menacing. They are like those palace guards over in England with their glazed expressions and wouldn't smile or speak if their lives depended on it. They undergo special training in how to grimace, snarl and look as intimidating as possible while at the same time they file all the buggy wheels to be perfectly square so they have that neat little clack clack clack thing going when you're shopping. Our greeters also undergo rigorous physical training so as to be able to dash out the door and nab those rotten ne'er do wells who dared walk out of the store empty handed for surely they must have shoved merchandise in their pockets. [/quote] Geez, no wonder you found my quote so amusing. I meant smile like that nice senior citizen that is handing you a shopping cart :o[/quote] Nazi WalMart greeters! :D Debby[/quote] GEEZ HF!!! I could have fun with that... muhahahahaha...... :evilbat: :evilbat: :evilbat: :evilbat: :evilbat: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LisaH Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 I think that's the newest addition; Harry the Malinois...Looks like the Pit Bulls are already showing him how to act for the camera :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 [quote name='odnarb']... I've been posting on boards with primrose for about 7 years, and people will definately argue with her for the sake of arguing. I've seen sensible folks post the most assinine things just cuz primrose said the opposite. ........ :)[/quote] LOL And I've seen you trying to make excuses for her for about 7 years on every new board... until she takes one of YOUR posts out of context, twists your words and tries to use your dog as an example of something improper. THEN you take offense. Guess it depends whose ox is being gored. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odnarb Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 [quote name='guesttoday'] LOL And I've seen you trying to make excuses for her for about 7 years on every new board... until she takes one of YOUR posts out of context, twists your words and tries to use your dog as an example of something improper. THEN you take offense. Guess it depends whose ox is being gored.[/quote] Primmy and I have gotten into it on various boards over the years, that's no secret. So who are you, nameless cur that won't sign your name? It's hard to take anyone seriously if they are too cowardly to post who they are :roll: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtnek Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 is that dog OK? It looks like it's in pain....I cant stand pain, please tell me she's fine.... :o :o :o :o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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