Not again!! Help!

[alicat613]

Oh I agree, but raw home feeding is much better than the real diet they would have. If you are uncomfortable with the sanitation, you can use grape seed extract as an edible disenfectant. The raw diet is more about the ideal natural diet than the real natural diet.

Believe me, I was so anti-raw you wouldn't believe it. Give my dog chicken bones?? NO way!! I fed cooked for many years with a prior dog. I fed cooked with this dog...but ended up doing some 'experiments' and finding raw better. I started doing raw with bonemeal, but bonemeal lacks the enzymes of bones. So I tried big chewing bones...he gnawed right through to get the marrow. And then I tried a chicken wing...and I'll never go back. The first time he was very young and didn't really eat it, which reinforced my anti-Barf feelings. But then I tried again later, and he just crunch crunch crunched with delight and kept begging for more.

My dog is extremely healthy and has no medical problems. Kibble feeders seem to have so many health issues. We did too on our last dog until we switched to cooked home food, and I feel this raw is even better.

[Daisysmom]

[quote]The low protein could be from all of the blood loss.. She could possibly have an ulcer bleeding[/quote]

I asked one of the vets about an ulcer and he said that that is an upper GI problem and the blood in the stool would be black. As for the protein, I agree, and so does the vet on the blood loss and the fact that every thing is running right through her.

[u]Update[/u]:

They are keeping her one more night and said I could pick her up after work tomorrow. They gave her a little dinner and she, so far, is keeping it down. But, she still hasn't had her bm and that's what they are waiting for so they can send a sample to the lab.

I miss my baby, and so does Chelsea!! She is lost without her.

[alicat613]

So they basically still don't know what's wrong, and their only 'solution' is to put her on EN again?

[Daisysmom]

I don't think they will know until they get the lab results, if then. They think it is irritable bowel syndrome, and I will have to be very diligent in her feedings, which will more than likely include the EN. She was pretty consistent on that, and I'll just have to keep the raw hide from her and be extra careful.

I was just hoping that someone has a [i]similiar [/i]situation and could give me an opinion on what had worked for them. I appreciate your advice, but I have always fed my dogs the same, and never had problems like Daisy's has had on her kibble. I think it is her personal intestinal problem and will just have to take special care of it.

Thank you all for your suggestions and caring words.

[Hobbit]

[quote name='alicat613']Dogs are made to eat raw chicken, raw rabbit, etc.

If your dogs contracted salmonella you were feeding nasty chicken, sorry. Unfortunately, dogs are meant to eat healthy natural meats, and we make unhealthy unnatural meats. So it is best if you can find a good source.

An unhealthy dog would benefit 10 times more from a raw diet than a healthy one. I am surprised when I see people say otherwise. It is often the reason people switch.

Of course your vet is against it...no commission. But obviously they've been so helpful so far. Good luck.[/quote]

This is a very volatile subject. I remember the last time this barf vs anything else debate came up --- it ended up in a major bitch argument.

YES, "UNDOMESTICATED" dogs were/are meant for raw food eating. As were humans many, many years ago. I think that with years of NOT feeding and NOT eating a raw diet, that dogs have evolved....just like humans.

Just because you have never had a bad occurance with the barf diet, please don't think that it can't happen. I KNOW how the chicken was processed, I WAS there. If the chicken had of been cooked, my dogs would not have gotten sick.

I find it amazing that someone that has never had bad results from feeding the barf diet, refuses to acknowledge that bad results, even fatal results can and DO occur when feeding raw food and bones.

I have seen the radiographs, first hand, of lodged bones from people feeding the barf diet. It CAN happen. There was a large box of radiographs --- all from mishaps of bones being lodged from being fed a raw diet. The vet has nothing to gain or lose either way. He does keep samples on hand of the prescription diet and will order it, when asked. Normally he tells his client to buy chicken and rice baby food for their dog that is having gastric problems.

I don't care either way what someone feeds their dog. I do care, however, that they may not be given "ALL" the facts.

What works for one dog will not work for another. Several people that I know have had terrible results from feeding the raw diet. On the other hand, several others have had great results.

All the facts need to be stated, not just a biased opinion.

[Hobbit]

.....and unless you are feeding "FRESH" chicken that you JUST killed yourself ---- from one that you raised > you ARE feeding chemicals far worse than what's in some dog food.

A commerical poultry grower will go to any lengths to get his product to market. Any lengths to be the best, the first, the most -- even if it means feeding growth hormones, low levels of arsenic, etc...

Several labels say, "FRESH" --- that is an advertising gimick so people will think it's healthy. Nothing is more healthy than an animal that you raise yourself and feed only organically grown hay or feeds.

[Daisysmom]

Yes, I agree. I wasn't trying to get into a heated debate on types of diets, just wondering if anyone had had a similar problem. Also agree that all diets don't work for all dogs. We just have to do what is best for our individual dogs. :)

...And agree to disagree on certain things :lol:

[alicat613]

Yes, and as I said I used to be a big anti-BARFer. I'm still not entirely convinced on the bones. I am still mostly doing a raw meat with bonemeal like Pitcairn suggests.

I get local organic chicken and I know it is safe. But I stick to beef more.

[Guest roo]

Sorry to intrude here :lol:

but most of the vet specific diets have been tested very well
with allergies to certain foods.
Often the base to the specific diet is monk fish which is unknown to cause
any allergies at all.

Yes hills diets are often given free to vets.
BUT the special diets have normally been researched BIG TIME.

Pedigree do a diet for skin problems too.

And ending this with.
All good dog foods have been made and tested.
It is a very sweeping statement to say this food is crap, that food it crap,
Barf or and natural feeding works for some people fine.
But no research that is significant(sp) tells me that barf or natural feeding is best.
I have worked for a dog food company in the past for over 7 years.
I breed , i rear and i know my dogs, yes different lines grow, and rear differently,
I think eating socks and shoes and anytoys is more than likely the main cause.
If any of mine get upset tums, natural live goats or sheeps milk yoghurt always sorts them out within 24 hours.

roo

[Daisysmom]

Well, Daisy has been home for a while now, and they sent her home with the EN again. It is a gastroENteric canine formula. And, FYI the ingredients are: Brewers rice, corn gluten meal, ground yellow corn, beef and bone meal, and etc......

She is slowly getting back to normal, very slowly :-?

[Hobbit]

Any reason(s) why she is having this problem?

[alicat613]

I am never trying to tell people what to feed (which is why there was a smiley by raw), just for people to do their own thinking - learn about nutrition and read your own labels.

Irritable bowel syndrome is not a real diagnosis.
And that food is almost all fillers, which to me is a waste of money.

I strongly believe that in all creatures nutrition is the foundation of life.
What you put in is what you get in a way. Feeding a dog highly processed grains as their main diet is very unnatural, and especially as a 'solution' to a last resort diagnosis of a 'syndrome' rather than an illness or problem, makes no sense and they charge and arm and a leg for it!

You could make a cooked diet fresh at home (and no I am not talking BARF, I don't even feed Barf but it seems difficult to get that across) or find a 'prescription' diet like the one from Whole Dog Journal, or a quality kibble that worked - all of these would be a lot cheaper and more suitable for a dog IMO.

[mouseatthebusstop]

Very sorry I am so late here IBS is brought on by stress. So it is not surprizing after the loss of Trixie it has flared up again.

[Daisysmom]

I think she developed this irritable bowel (and I believe that is what she does have, because it is so recurring) due to the damage of passing socks and things in the past she shouldn't have eaten. I just think her insides are very sensitive.

The EN has worked in the past, and to tell you the truth, I am afraid to try anything else. When she has these spells, it is so painful for her and so tramatic for all of us, I would hate to put her through it trying out foods. That is what I think the vet thought we did when we changed her food. I told them we weened her off of the EN and very slowly introduced the IAMs that was 3 months ago, and they thought it was only 3 WEEKS ago, and on the dog's receipt/medical records it says:

"She did the best on the EN until she was changed a few [u]weeks [/u]ago. It can take awhile for the bowel to recover from this but each day as well as each week for the next 4 to 6 weeks she should return back to her old self gradually. Please continue the medications as directed as well as the diet. She required intravenous fluids as well as injectable medications to [b]ALLOW HER TO RECOVER FROM THIS UPSET.[/b] -

Doesn't it sound like they are blaming me!! I did this 3 MONTHS ago, not 3 weeks ago. That ticke me off a little :x (for as much as I like them)

[Daisysmom]

I was posting my reply when I saw yours mouse!!! This started exactly after Trixie was PTS!!!! I thought that was part of the problem. My poor baby. She misses Trixie as much as I do :cry:

She would just lay around and watch me cry.

[mouseatthebusstop]

I BELIVE IT IS CONNECTED. LOT OF LOVE AND CUDDLES :D

[Daisysmom]

Thanks :D That makes me feel better!! At least I can say now, I think I know what caused it!!! (We will still keep her on the EN, though.)

[behle]

Daisymom, I think Mouse is right. If Daisy is sensitive and misses Trixie, it very well could disturb her digestive system. I have had cats before that have suffered digestive upsets after losing their cat friend of many years. Some animals are more sensitive to things than we give them credit for! She may well be reacting to your level of stress as well.

Good luck with Daisy! I'll be thinking about you both. :fadein:

[Ickle]

Did the vet check her for Colitis (uclerated colitis bleeds a lot) has the same sort of reactions as your bitch
I use garlic when my dogs have upset tummies
Ickle

[Daisysmom]

Alicat613 if you are out there, do you know how much slippery elm to give Daisy? I took your advice and bought some, but I don't want to overdose her.
Thanks

[alicat613]

You know, I haven't been able to find anything on dosages. I loaned out my only book with all that in it, but I emailed someone who might be able to help. As far as I know though, and from what I can find, there really isn't a set dosage. Its not toxic, and in fact supposedly during the Revolutionary War its what kept Washington and his soldiers alive. It's not only an herbal remedy but a nutritious food as well.

Holisticat recommends for dogs doing 1/8 the human dosage on the bottle, but that would vary. I mean, my dog is as big as an adult human so I would probably give him a half dose twice a day.

Many recommend adding honey and a bit of water to make the dog eat it, or you can put it in or on food depending on whether or not she is eating.
From one site:

The most specific dosage info is from Dr Pitcairn, a very trustworthy source:
"

[Daisysmom]

I just bid on a book called NATURAL HEALING FOR CATS AND DOGS by D. STEIN. I figure there is a lot of information in it that I can use for Daisy. Thanks for the info. I think I read the same site.