Canine Science in School....

[Guest Mutts4Me]

[quote name='Cairn6']You mean kind of like when some people hear someone has a pit bull and assume they only want the dog because it looks tough and could tear someone apart.[/quote]

Yeah, kind of. I openly said that. Some people get dangerous breeds because they're "dangerous," and some people get retrievers because they're "perfect." Neither is a good thing, but both are common.


[quote]I'm sorry but the generalizations of some people on here that are so adament about the way pit bulls are protrayed negatively spend a lot of time talking about how horrible other breeds are. [/quote]

No one said retrievers were horrible. I said that I have liked all the retrievers I've met, and loved all the ones I've gotten to know. They're sweet dogs. I don't think there are any "horrible" breeds at all. I think there are horrible owners, and more often than not, they're the uninformed kind.

[quote]The automatic prejudice is no different then all the people that are called idiots because they don't understand how great the Pit bulls are. [/quote]

Are Pit Bulls great? I guess they can be if they're the right breed for you, but I don't think they're the right breed for everyone, and there are plenty of people who should never own Pit Bulls. I don't know anyone here who promotes Pit Bulls as the "perfect dog," I just know plenty of people who are sick of society portraying them as murderous monsters. That's a far cry, IMO, from calling people idiots "because they don't understand how great the Pit bulls are." I've never, ever heard anyone say "what, you don't like Pit Bulls? You're an idiot!!!" (which is different than "Listen, you've grown up hearing all these horrible stories. Let me tell you some good ones.")

[quote]It seems to me if you want people to accept all dogs you should try keeping an open mind and stop assuming that other breeds are just like the ones you have come in contact with. [/quote]

I don't think anyone did that. Personally, I've really gotten to know 3 retrievers in my life (all labs), and I liked them all. My black lab, Bandit, was an awesome creature even if he did have half a dozen health problems from severely unhealthy breeding. Gretchen was a yellow lab guide dog I knew for 2 years in college. She was an incredible dog (though a horrible guide dog) that we loved to have over and pet-sit. Cocoa was the chocolate lab I mentioned who had a biting problem (but was otherwise sweet), which was probably a result of questionable breeding and unexperienced ownership on the part of my cousin and his family.[/quote]

[quote]It's as if the hatred some people have for Pit bulls has sent some of you so far the other way that Pit bulls can do no wrong and all other breeds are subject to looking at through a microscope to see all their flaws.[/quote]

Ohhh, no one's going to tell you Pit Bulls can do no wrong. And I'm really sorry, but I think you really have missed the point here. This was never about a breed of dog, or a group of dogs, and this was never about putting other breeds down and looking for their flaws. This was about dog owners. The OWNERS, not the DOGS. There are excellent, excellent Golden and Labrador owners out there. We have some here. We also have excellent owners of other breeds, and we do have excellent owners of Pit Bulls.

There are bad owners of every breed, and usually for different reasons. People see Border Collies and JRTs on TV and see how smart they are and all the stuff they can do, and they think smart=good dog, so they make an uninformed choice and get this "smart" dog and don't realize the stimulation they need to keep them sane. People see Pit Bulls on TV or whatever and think they look "tough" and present a certain, dangerous image, or they think they're good guard dogs, so they make an uninformed choice to get a Pit Bull and put it in chains; they either make it mean with poor treatment, or else they're put off to find that their "guard dog" let someone mug them or burglarize their house. And YES, people see the gazillion retrievers on TV being the "perfect family dog," being docile and clever, and so they make an uninformed choice to get a retriever but don't realize that even the "perfect" dog needs proper training to become anything like the dogs on TV, not to mention how much energy these dogs have. It's all bad!!! And none of it has anything to do with the BREED of dog. It has to do with the uninformed owners.

You may be offended, and I get it, but the honest fact is that these breeds (goldens and labs) are in serious trouble. Because they're being touted as the "perfect" dog, they're being severely overbred. Don't forget that the Pit Bull was one of the most popular family dogs 50 years ago. Now, there's an overwhelming trend (there have been several discussions on this board about it) of aggressive Labradors (don't know about Goldens). It's due to over (irresponsible) breeding and uninformed puppy purchasing (viscous circle). BYBs are pumping out Lab puppies at an alarming rate, and they're coming out unhealthy, unsound, and unsocialized. They're going to irresponsible owners. And the quality of the breed is going downhill (obviously, not all of them, but there are increasing numbers of unhealthy labs popping up all over the place). I wouldn't be all that surprised in another 10 years to see Labradors in a similar position to the ones Pit Bulls are in now.

Contraty to the idea that I "hate" retrievers because the media hate Pit Bulls, I actually fear for them (Labradors) for that very reason (the media's hatred of Pit Bulls and adoration of Labs).

[__crazy_canine__]

Good post Mutts!!! :kciuki: :klacz:

[MajiesMom]

[quote] Goldens are wonderful dogs. All dogs are great. Why would anyone question someones love of any breed?[/quote]

I totally feel the same way!


I was recently having a discussion with someone and they were like "you know how German Shepherds are a required taste..."
I was like "yeah" not thinking then later thought huh GSDs are a wonderful, versatile, the most perfect breed, why would they be a required taste? Everyone must love German Shepherds

[AllAmericanPUP]

oh cmon

Yea, i hate labs and goldens and any other retrievers, geeze, horrible dogs. :roll:

oh wait, I have a black lab and a golden mix that i love dearly.

There are a few hundred breeds, why? because all people have different wants/needs and preferences.

It's not shocking to me that some people don't like certain breeds.
Some people just don't like the personality of certain breeds.

It is ignorant of people to just hate a breed based on stupid media BS.

[Cairn6]

[quote name='__crazy_canine__']I completely understand where youre coming from, Cairn, but Im not judging the dogs, [b]Im judging the people[/b]... theres a difference. I said I love Goldens, I just hate how people think of them as "perfect."

I know that all breeds can be great dogs and that all breeds can be little devils. Its all in the owner and breeder. I just have a problem with people not thinking thats the way it is, because, well, it is. Yes I KNOW that a pit bull can do more damage than a Chi can and I KNOW that some breeds are more likely to bite than others but thats not my point.... my point is that its never the dogs fault, its the people's and I put all the blame and yes even prejudice on the people.

It was wrong of me to judge the teacher but I cant help what pops into my head when I think "Golden" just like a person whos been attacked or witnesses an attack by a pit bull probably cant help but think of their powerful jaws coming towards them and clamping down. Even if you dont blame the dogs, you cant help what comes into your head about them.[/quote]
Okay I understand where your coming from now. I have never owned a Golden retriever myself so to tell the the truth I am not sure what they are like at home having only known the ones I see at parks and the grooming shop and yes they are a bit hyper but I have found them to be really beautiful wonderful dogs. I am just very fond of dogs, period. I don't care what breed I just love them all.

[courtnek]

[quote]I have never owned a Golden retriever myself so to tell the the truth I am not sure what they are like at home having only known the ones I see at parks and the grooming shop and yes they are a bit hyper but I have found them to be really beautiful wonderful dogs. I am just very fond of dogs, period. I don't care what breed I just love them all.
[/quote]

well, since you asked..... :lol: :lol:

they are very intelligent dogs, originally bred to hunt/retrieve waterfowl
in Britain and Scotland. I believe they started in Scotland, where their coats blended in with the field/prairie type environment out there.

They were bred for strength, energy and versatility. Their coat, like the lab, is waterproof, but long because it is much colder in Scotland than in Britain. Like the lab, it is a "double coat". the surface coat is long and fanned, the undercoat is thick and layered. They (like Labs at the time)
usually lived outside, in a kennel environment. Only the wealthy had
house pets back then, and they were usually lap dogs. The hunting dogs were not considered pets, they were workers.

Like the Lab, they were bred to like people in general (they were never intended to be guard dogs, and because of the prey they were to retrieve the final phase of hunting drive, the kill phase, was deliberately bred out)
and to be friendly, outgoing, trustworthy off leash in the field. Since many people hunted at the same time and in the same area's, the dogs had to be bred to be people and other dog tolerant.

Because of all of this, this is a high energy dog, who needs extensive obedience training and recall training. that happened naturally in the hunting environment, puppies were trained by their sire and dam to retrieve and come back when called, with the guidance of the hunter.
It was a visual training. The puppies watched the parents, and other
retrievers, and learned the signals and calls from the hunter. Now this is where hunting dogs get their bad recall inheritance. Once loosed, they were not required to come back until they had the kill retrieved. And they were out there for hours on end. Even if nothing was recoved, by thetime the hunter was done for the day, the dogs were "dog tired" and came back willingly because they knew they would eat once they got home.

move forward a few hundred years. This high energy, now often inbred for show purposes, working dog, is living in a house, is alone all day or maybe has mom and the kids, is not getting the exercise it was bred for,
is not being challeneged, and unfortunately, in today's world, is not often getting even basic obedience training. It has not job, no bond with a hunter/master, no daily runs in the field, its basically bored. A bored dog is an unhappy dog, and a destructive dog, in any breed. Often there is only one dog in the household, so no playmates either.

Hence the problem today. This is a big, powerful dog. If not properly trained and disciplined, it will attempt to take over the household like
any other dog, but unlike the Chi's and Yorkies, it can do major damage if it bites you. This is what I am always complaining about (sorry) because I just HATE to see the ads about "the perfect family dog".
they arent born that way, they have to be trained that way.

sorry about the rant. This is true of Labs as well. Goldens, while stubborn, tend to be less stubborn than labs in general, which is why you see more labs in shelters. They also as they get older tend to calm down a little sooner than most labs.

does that help?