Pitbull image

[kendalyn]

[quote]I myself go to dog parks with my pit bull, and although she doesn't attack other dogs and try to rip them apart... she is dominant and likes to slam em' to the ground.... alot of people have told me that one day she is going to rip some other dog to shreds, blah blah blah.. [/quote]

You shouldn't allow her to slam other dogs to the ground. If taking her to the park is part of her training, you should be teaching her the right way to act around other dogs instead of dominating all of them.

One part of socialization is exposing dogs to lots of situations, but the other part is teaching them the right way to behave in those situations. I believe you are missing the other part.

Your dog sounds very rude and I believe sooner or later your dog will be involved in a serious fight for which you and your dog will be blamed.

[Guest Anonymous]

A little paranoid there are you Primmy? Funny how you seem to know how I will react to your breed of choice. See, unlike YOU I don't talk down about dog breeds. I do not believe in bad breeds. I do however believe in bad owners & bad dogs. I also believe that if you can't take a little criticism or scrutiny you have no business dishing it out Since you refuse to acknowledge your breed of dog I can only assume that either you have no idea what breed they are or you do not own dogs at all and therefore should be ignored.

By the way, nothing you said in your post made much sense, how can I "down" your breed when you refuse to reveal it?? How are YOU best serving YOUR breed by telling the truth about it when you refuse to acknowledge it?

Debby[/quote]

Well, if you want to protect dogs, you [b]should[/b] "talk down" (i.e. talk absolutely frankly about the downside of owning) breeds. You remind me of some of those generic "how to select the right dog for you" books, where every breed is listed as intelligent, loving and great with kids. Plus, of course, they all live to please. You don't offend anybody when you refuse to talk about the downside of breeds, you just hurt dogs (and the people who are naive enough to take your bad advice).

An extremely good example of how a breed can be saved (that the pit bull people would do well to look at, although the pit bull situation is somewhat different, and it is unlikely that the pit bull community can make any headway to save the breed short of very strict breed specific laws) is dalmatians. Everybody believes that "101 Dalmatians" was the downfall of dalmatians, and it is certainly true that the animated (first) version spiked an interest in dalmatians and everybody started breeding them and they started showing up in shelters everywhere. It was devastating to the breed.

But the responsible dalmatian people learned from that horrible situation, and when the live action version of the movie came along, they were EVERYWHERE in the media, telling people, basically, that dalmatians were horrible dogs for most people to own. They didn't just say (as breed enthusiasts tend to) "this breed is not for everybody because it is so smart and loving and wonderful." They said ACTUAL bad stuff about dalmatians--that they are very busy and active, shed huge amounts, have the tendency to have serious health problems, can be not good with kids, etc. The movie theater where I saw the live action movie had a "What you need to know about Dalmatians" exhibit set up in the lobby by the local dalmatian club and it was all about why people should NOT get a dalmatian. The stars of the movie tended to mention the same thing when they appeared on talk shows and promoted the movie...."but don't go get a dalmatian because you like the movie....that would be a BIG mistake because they are very difficult dogs."

Amazingly, this onslaught of negative publicity worked to the benefit of dalmatians. Registrations which had been horribly inflated, plummeted. There used to be dalmatians at every shelter. They are becoming much, much rarer. Interestingly the number of performance titles on dalmatians did not change all that much from the days when registrations were ten times what they are now. This is because the people who really [b]should[/b] get dalmatians still are getting them.

I told you that I would be happy if you criticized my breed(s), but I am not going tell you what breed(s) I have (partly) because you are so obviously salivating at the chance to do so not because you want to tell the truth, but because you perceive that it would somehow hurt my feelings. You admitted as much in your first post. It isn't so, but I like to encourage people to tell the truth. If you just tell the truth about ALL breeds, and you happen to criticize one of mine, believe me I'll be happy to read it.

So just tell the truth, and forget about trying to insult people by criticizing their breeds and you will best protect dogs. Fair enough?

primrose

[Guest Anonymous]

[quote name='pLaurent'][quote]Not many people, including the media, understand the difference between dog-dog and dog-people aggression[/quote]

You are so right, and unfortunately, Primrose is one of those people who equates dog aggression with human aggression and has stated this many times.

code][/quote]

HUH? Please quote where I have "stated...many times" that I "equate" dog aggression to human aggression. I've never "equated" dog aggression to human aggression, so please do not misstate my position. Thanks!

However, just because the two are not the same (and I have repeatedly agreed that there are many dog aggressive dogs who are not human aggressive and some few human aggressive dogs who are not dog aggressive) doesn't mean that either is an okay trait to have in a dog used for breeding purposes. I don't "equate" submissive urination and extreme shyness, either, but I wouldn't use either a submissive urinator (after puppyhood) or an extremely shy dog for breeding. I'd advocating breeding away from BOTH those traits (and from dog aggression and human aggression) in all breeds.

Where many in the pit bull community just don't seem to get it is that they seem to think that because a dog will only kill a dog, not (likely) a child, nobody will have any problem with that. Well, guess what? Lots of people DO have a significant problem with a dog who will kill a dog if his owner is not 100% responsible, 100% of the time. This is partly because we know how few owners are 100% responsible, 100% of the time. And since many shelters are absolutely bulging with pit bulls, it is clear that pit bull owners are among owners who are not 100% responsible, 100% of the time.

In short, even if you take human aggression COMPLETEY out of the picture (and you can't, really, since pit bulls have significant problems there, too and also since people tend to get hurt breaking up dog fights), people are not going to want pit bulls in their neighborhoods, because they don't like it that pit bulls tend to be dog aggressive. Breed bans will be passed on that basis alone. This is the cost that the portion of the pit bull community that thinks dog aggression is okay (or even "proper pit bull temperament") inflicts on pit bulls. If you don't like it, talk to them.


primrose

[cheekymunkee]

[quote]Amazingly, this onslaught of negative publicity worked to the benefit of dalmatians. Registrations which had been horribly inflated, plummeted. There used to be dalmatians at every shelter. They are becoming much, much rarer. [/quote]

Really?? Then how did ALL those Dal's wind up in shelters shortley after the movie??? Right now, on Petfinder alone there are 1227. Rare?? Think not.

[quote] told you that I would be happy if you criticized my breed(s), but I am not going tell you what breed(s) I have (partly) because you are so obviously salivating at the chance to do so not because you want to tell the truth, but because you perceive that it would somehow hurt my feelings. [/quote]

That is too funny!! Believe me, NOTHING about you makes me salivate!! I am just curious as to WHY you feel the constant need to critisize pit bulls & pit bull owners. If there are bad downsides to ALL breeds, why don't you turn your attention to THEM???

[quote]It isn't so, but I like to encourage people to tell the truth. If you just tell the truth about ALL breeds, and you happen to criticize one of mine, believe me I'll be happy to read it.

So just tell the truth, and forget about trying to insult people by criticizing their breeds and you will best protect dogs. Fair enough?

[/quote]

[b]I'm a little confused here, are you calling me a liar???? [/b] Point out just were it is that I lied. Show me, I'm curious, really I am. If you like to encourage people to tell the truth, why don't YOU try doing it???
Tell us the truth about YOUR breeds. What are the down sides of owning them? You seem to know the down sides of pit bull ownership & have no problems spouting them off in every thread. Be honest here, what breeds are your dogs?

Debby

[pLaurent]

[quote]because you are so obviously salivating at the chance to do so not because you want to tell the truth[/quote]

Please get over yourself. Do you really think anyone cares about trolls like you to the point of SALIVATING over any personal information? Oh, please!

And yes, you have said more than once that you believe that a dog aggressive pit bull is likely to be human aggressive as well. Remember?

Do you also remember stating that any dog who would attack a companion animal is "vicious"? I asked you if greyhounds must be included on that list, since many of them will attack any small animal, including small dogs? Your answer was (as usual when you are backed into a corner) "Stop whining."

[quote]Amazingly, this onslaught of negative publicity worked to the benefit of dalmatians. Registrations which had been horribly inflated, plummeted. There used to be dalmatians at every shelter. They are becoming much, much rarer[/quote]

Who told you that? There are actually 1234 Dals listed on Petfinder ALONE today. Guess a few more were dumped since last night and they are not really all that "rare", are they? Please try and get your facts straight.

[cheekymunkee]

Between the time that I posted & pLaurent posted 7 more of those RARE Dalamtions showed up on Petfinder. Weird huh???

Debby

[__crazy_canine__]

[quote name='primorse...'] In short, even if you take human aggression COMPLETEY out of the picture (and you can't, really, since pit bulls have significant problems there, too and also since people tend to get hurt breaking up dog fights)[/quote]

Thats the stupidest thing Ive ever heard! :roll: Honestly Ive never EVER [i]heard[/i] a case of a pit bull being human aggressive (even though I know theres always dogs who are.) Nor have I [i]known[/i] any pit that was aggressive towards humans. Human aggression IMO is learned, not inherited. Maybe Im wrong but there has been proof of that before.

Duh people get hurt breaking up dog fights! :x If two dogs are going at each other and you get in the middle of that, its kind of obvious they will get hurt!

Primrose, I know youre intelligent but why must you go to such extremes to point that out. We can all tell by your writing and you bring up some good points but why ALWAYS about pits and why things so irrelavent?!? You need to just lay off and go get an additude change!!! :evil: Im really sick of you always causing problems!!! :roll:

[Guest Anonymous]

To be honest with you, I don't really like the image of the snarling dog, but it 'is' a pit bull, and it caught my attention, so I tried the stuff. (It's an energy drink, too) Tastes just like Sobe's 'adrenaline rush' energy drink.

I own a pit bull, and I understand that negative media doesn't help the breed, but I didn't get quite so enraged that there was a picture of a snarling dog on some enegry drink. Instead, I take my dog in public, and allow people to see how well behaved and friendly she is. When they ask me what breed she is, I tell them, "She's a pit bull." A lot of times, people are shocked that this great dog is one of the 'horrible pit bulls', and they have something to change their opinion of the breed.

People are going to believe what they believe, and censoring the reality of pit bull fighting isn't going to help change anything.

Responsible pit bull owners are going to have to deal with being demonized for owning such 'awful' dogs. Dogfighters NOW, not back in the day, are the problem for this breed. They take this people friendly dog and raise it to be aggressive, violent, and fearful, WITH PEOPLE, and they don't care about the dog, or what happens if it gets loose, or even if it suffers. You could take another breed of dog, abuse it, and train it to act the same way. It's not limited to just pit bulls. They only trait that is different is the dog aggression. You have to be responsible if you are going to own a pit bull. Duh.

[Guest Anonymous]

Gooeydog..first of all, I never mentioned anywhere about my dog biting any other dog.. I said she's bossy and likes to slam them into the ground..I also stated that by taking her to the park, I've encouraged her to become more social and her bad habits are decreasing...so in other words I HAD TO TEACH HER NOT TO BE THAT WAY...it didn't happen out of thin air...

My dog is not mean, and she has never started a fight....I guess you didn't read my point about how OTHER dogs have tried starting fights with her and she could be easily controlled by me while the other dogs didn't even listen to their owners... I know my own dog...and I also know that by keeping a pit bull away from other dogs and not trying to teach it to socialize properly is the worst mistake you can make...how are people supposed to breed dog related aggression out of this breed if they're just concerned about keeping their dog away from others?

SO I don't know where you guys are getting this "she's rude" and "if she's biting" nonsense..I simply stated that I take my dog to offleash parks to teach her how to behave properly..and its working just fine...
:-?

[cheekymunkee]

[quote]SO I don't know where you guys are getting this "she's rude" and "if she's biting" nonsense..I simply stated that I take my dog to offleash parks to teach her how to behave properly..and its working just fine... [code]

Today, what about tomorrow? How old is she? You will NEVER find a responsible pit bull owner in a dog park. If you don't think slamming another dog to the ground is not the start of a dog fight, you are very wrong. Is this your first pit bull? How well aquainted with the breed are you?

Debby [/code][/quote]

[Guest Anonymous]

Today, what about tomorrow? How old is she? You will NEVER find a responsible pit bull owner in a dog park. If you don't think slamming another dog to the ground is not the start of a dog fight, you are very wrong. Is this your first pit bull? How well aquainted with the breed are you?

Debby


How are there no responsible pit bull owners in a dog park? I realize her attitude was negative, hence I am teaching her to behave properly and she is getting much better..in other words she doesn't do it anymore...I don't understand how that is not being responsible....

And gooeydog...how does my attitude give pit bulls a bad name? I have taught her to become friendlier towards other dogs.. I watch her every second..and I am not allowing her to be the bully...I think that my attitude is very positive in that way. I'm not encouraging her to do bad things...I don't get where all this is coming from..you're making no sense and you're not reading what I"m saying...I think you like the sound of your fingers typing.....learn to listen to people instead of lashing out at them...its your attitude that needs to change buddy...I don't understand why you're so offended....relax.

[Guest Anonymous]

And for all of you that think I am being irresponsible and ignorant for teaching my dog....I'd like to know how you all of a sudden became the pit bull experts....Sasha..that question is all yours to answer... :-?

[cheekymunkee]

Here is one of many many articles you will find about pit bulls & dog parks.

[url]http://www.badrap.org/rescue/dogpark.cfm[/url]

Your dog may be friendly to other dogs now but what if that changes? What if she meets another dog that she doesn't like? Have you ever heard the saying "Never trust a pit bull not to fight"? It is NO joke. Why take the chance not only with YOUR dog but with everyone elses? You can socialize your dog all you want ON LEASH where you can better control the situation

Debby

[Guest Anonymous]

Read up:

[url]http://www.pbrc.net/dogpark.html[/url]

-
PIT BULLS AND DOG PARKS



Some people bring their pit bulls to off-leash dog parks because they want to show the world how wonderful their dog is and dispel the rumors and negative media hype. They trust their dogs because they haven't (yet) shown an ounce of aggression towards anything. This is irresponsible and here's why...

It is a FACT that our pit bulls, AmStaffs and pit mixes come with a built-in fighting heritage. It doesn’t matter where we get them from, whether it be the pound, a stray we pick up, or a puppy we buy from a breeder. [b]The majority of pit bulls will, at some point in their lives, exhibit some degree of dog-on-dog aggression.[/b] This type of animal aggression is completely separate from human-aggression; a well-socialized pit bull is very good-natured with people. Yet, chances are that a "normal" pit bull will not share his affection with other animals. [b]We cannot predict when or where it will happen and we can’t love, train or socialize it out of the dog. Pit bulls may not start a fight, but they will finish it.[/b]

It is common to see one dog running out ahead of a pack. This game of chase can easily escalate. Sometimes small scuffles erupt over a toy or tug-o-war, or several dogs gang up one dog, or a wrestling match gets out of hand. This kind of action will be hard for a pit bull to ignore and walk away from.

[b]If your pit bull is involved in a fight at a dog park, it gives purpose to breed-specific legislation and affects the rights of others to own these amazing dogs. Don't set your dog up to fail.[/b]


Responsible pit bull owners:

Research and understand the breed
Don’t put other people’s pets at risk
Keep their dog leashed at all times in public places
Clean up after their dogs (yes, that means pick up the dog's poop!)
Vaccinate and license their dogs
Spay and neuter their dogs
Train their dogs

Other activities you can enjoy with your pit bull:

Play fetch in an enclosed tennis court or baseball field
Ride a bike and have your pit bull jog along
Walk, jog or hike with your pit bull. Don't forget her bandana!
Take an obedience class together

Respect your dog and the dogs of others...don’t learn the hard way
what your pit bull is capable of.

[url]http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/responsible.html[/url]

[cheekymunkee]

[quote]And for all of you that think I am being irresponsible and ignorant for teaching my dog....I'd like to know how you all of a sudden became the pit bull experts....Sasha..that question is all yours to answer



Uh, the fact that I have been a pit bull owner for 46 years.

Oh & I do not consider myself to be an expert, just a very experienced & responsible owner

Debby [/quote]

[Guest Anonymous]

Well I have been successful in making her friendlier Debby..and Gooeydog..and Sasha..........and she plays nice..not like before when I first started taking her there. I still don't see why I need to get negative attitude from you...if you don't agree with what I'm doing, why not try to explain your point of view instead of saying "you're ignorant" and "you give pit bulls a bad name"..

So far I haven't had any problems, nobody has made any rude comments to me, and in fact..I've been congratulated on my dog's behavior and all the hard work and effort I put into her..so I'm a bit offended that you feel the need to lash out at me with your rude comments...

Yes I admit, I haven't had pit bulls for 46 years and I'm not an "expert" :roll: ..but I'm learning by doing things that I find work for my dog. And I am careful and responsible for her...so I would appreciate if you didn't call me stupid names....thanx

but anyways...*shrugs*

[Guest Anonymous]

Cassidy... Thanks for the input... if you have any suggestions on where I can go to let my dog around other animals...besides a dog park...let me know... I wouldn't mind checking into it...its just that i don't want my dog to be isolated away from other dogs...

[cheekymunkee]

Did you read any of the links provided for you? I didn't see where any one called you any names. You really need to read up on the breed some more. The people who are posting to you & the people who wrote these articles KNOW what they are talking about. Whether or not you have had problems now is not the point. The point is why take the chance??? You have already had one problem, what is going to happen if another dog attacks yours & she kills it? She may not start the fight but she WILL end it. Do you at least carry a breack stick to the park with you?

Debby

[cheekymunkee]

Oops, I see that you did read them, good for you. We are not trying to be rude, just trying to let you know that it really is not a good idea.

You can socialize your dog with others ON LEASH just about any where you want. Just be aware of her body language. At least on leash you have some sort of control over your dog.

Debby

[Guest Anonymous]

Cheekymunkey..yup I'm reading some of the stuff you guys provided me with right now. And yes I have read alot of different sources for pit bull owners, none of which mention breaking sticks.

I actually got an article from someone on here about breaking sticks yesterday though..thanks

And saying someone is "ignorant" is just as bad as name calling... you can't educate someone when you're busy letting them know how naive and amateur they are, which was also mentioned in a few messages on here...

[Guest Anonymous]

[quote name='pitbulletta']Well I have been successful in making her friendlier Debby..and Gooeydog..and Sasha..........and she plays nice..not like before when I first started taking her there. I still don't see why I need to get negative attitude from you...if you don't agree with what I'm doing, why not try to explain your point of view instead of saying "you're ignorant" and "you give pit bulls a bad name"..

So far I haven't had any problems, nobody has made any rude comments to me, and in fact..I've been congratulated on my dog's behavior and all the hard work and effort I put into her..so I'm a bit offended that you feel the need to lash out at me with your rude comments...

Yes I admit, I haven't had pit bulls for 46 years and I'm not an "expert" :roll: ..but I'm learning by doing things that I find work for my dog. And I am careful and responsible for her...so I would appreciate if you didn't call me stupid names....thanx

but anyways...*shrugs*[/quote]

All I have to say is so far you have been VERY lucky!

I will also say that if I'd been at a dog park and your dog body slammed mine...not a pretty sight. Not saying the dog would have done something...I would have. I don't allow the body slamming to go on in my own back yard (Stand on their back feet and play...run and jump around each other yes...body slams no).

All it will take is one dog getting hit the wrong way (Yes I realize you said your dog doesn't do that anymore) and gettng hurt for someone to be screaming that your pit bull attacked their innocent dog.

[cheekymunkee]

This is a good site to learn more about Pit Bulls,

[url]http://www.realpitbull.com/[/url]

Here's another,

[url]http://www.badrap.org/rescue/index.cfm[/url]

These dogs may be more work than your average canine but they are sooo worth every bit of extra trouble.


Debby

[Guest Anonymous]

Yeah Debby... this is my first pit bull. I love her very much. I will look into the links though. Thanks


Alright I gotta get going. I'll talk to you all later. Thanks for the info guys.

[cheekymunkee]

No problem & glad to help!! I'm sorry if I came off as rude to you but I am very passionate about the breed. As is just about every APBT owner I know.


Debby

[Guest Anonymous]

I understand... I'll probably end up being that way soon..well..I already am..lol just need some tips..

alright I'm out
bye.