Carolk9s Posted October 3, 2003 Share Posted October 3, 2003 I am very sorry to hear of the loss of your Pepper girl. My sympathies go out to you, this has got to be hell for you. I know many will not agree with me, this is PURELY what I would do and I am not saying you should. [size=6]IF[/size] no medical reason can be found to explain Sassy's temperament issues, I would have her put down. Is Sassy spayed? If not, spaying 'might' have a profound affect on her temperament. Of course it might not also. Again this is JUST me, if Candy suddenly ripped Brittany open or vice versa and then snarled and lunged at a person they had met before, their time left on this earth would be extremely limited. It would hurt, it would break my heart, but I would do it. I do agree that you need a bit of time to consider and decide what to do about Sassy. Whatever your decision is, I wish you the best of luck and again I am sorry you have had to see and deal with the loss of Pepper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpeigirl Posted October 3, 2003 Author Share Posted October 3, 2003 Sassy is doing a bit better , but she still has this bit of an additude towards everyone. Our neighbor has agreed to let Sassy meet his well soicalized Golden, Jake. Under strict supervison, and both leashed. He knows the trouble I've been haveing with her, & he gave me a # to a behaviorist. I'm going to give her a chance to prove to me that she's trustworthy. 2pm is my vet apointment. Wish me & Sassy luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carolk9s Posted October 3, 2003 Share Posted October 3, 2003 I'm afraid that Sassy, while on leash, meeting the neighbors well socialized dog, also on leash, is not going to prove a whole heck of a lot. I assume Jake is a male? Sassy may react totally differently to a male than a female. Even if she grumbles at him or snaps at him, female to male behaviour is hard to judge at times as many females feel like they have to put the male in his place even if they are sociable girls otherwise. While you may certainly be able to enjoy many years with Sassy as an only dog, I feel she has PROVEN to be untrustworthy in regards to having another dog, especially another female, in the family with her. Certainly talk with the trainer but do NOT excuse any behaviour that is risky to other dogs or people from Sassy. I cannot remember, was Sassy also a rescue or did you get her from a breeder? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpeigirl Posted October 3, 2003 Author Share Posted October 3, 2003 She was a shelter rescue. SHe was the only pup from the litter. She was 7 weeks old when I brought her home Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carolk9s Posted October 3, 2003 Share Posted October 3, 2003 I went back and read all of your posts. It's quite possible Pepper kept pushing Sassy's buttons so to speak. How old is Sassy now? Is she spayed? She may simply need to be an only dog that is quite tightly managed, both for her protection and the human/canine public. Again I wish you the best of luck, this is truly a difficult time for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mouseatthebusstop Posted October 4, 2003 Share Posted October 4, 2003 did you get her papers? Why was a 7 week old puppy in rescue? in the UK s/pei club does it's own rescue servise. How are thinks going now. I would try obedience classes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pei obssessed Posted October 4, 2003 Share Posted October 4, 2003 I meant to reply a while ago, but kept putting it off because I never had enough time. So here it goes... First off, you said Sassy was never very friendly with her trainer--is there any reason for that, does she not like strangers (if that's the case, she needs more socilization)? If the trainer doesn't use only positive reinforcement, I'd look for another one. I know there are people who advocate phisical force--yanking on the leash, holding your dog down, etc., but it does NOT work with Shar-pei, as they are stubborn and would respond to force with force. Now the meeting on-leash... like carolk9s said, it very likely won't prove anything. Very many dogs act differently when on a leash (and I know that my girl is very vocal when on a leash--she would growl at the other dog to play with her but if you don't know the signals you can easily take that for aggression). And male-female relations are tricky, as a dominant female will try to put the male in his place right away (Hippo can tell unfixed males right away and gives a short warning growl before they even try anything with her :lol: ). On the other hand, I am aware that testing Sassy off-leash is difficult right now... but I'm just saying that the on-leash testing is likely not to prove anything. And, finally--her attitude... Shar-pei are very loyal, and very attached to their owners. If you are upset with her, and don't treat her exactly like you used to, Sassy would be very quick to pick up on that and change her attitude. If you give a command and you don't sound firm enough (because you're a bit afraid of her after what she's done--just a supposition, obviously :D ), she'll be able to tell. So maybe she is very insecure right now... on top of her being at that adolescent age when they're brats anyway :D Believe me, I wasn't trying to find excuses for what she's done to Pepper, but I just wanted you to be aware of all these other things that might contribute to her present behaviour. Make sure you're working with a trainer who uses only positive reinforcement (I'd say food-training probably works best with Shar-pei, but that's a matter of personal opinion)... If with all your work and the help of a good tariner, she's still instable, then there might be something wrong with her. But I'd make sure I've tried everything before making a decision. Goodluck, shar-pei girl 8) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpeigirl Posted October 5, 2003 Author Share Posted October 5, 2003 Sassy has a bit of a complex as i call it, she puts on agressive front, but her tail is tucked, so I think she has a bit of a fear agression problem, which the trainer picked up on. Sassy is food driven, anything for food, The trainer knows that, and has been useing food to get her to warm up. But she's still stand-offish. I love this dog though, I mean, yea I'm mad at her, but I still care for her, the little Pei Brat. I'll keep everyone updated on what's up with her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky Chaos Posted October 5, 2003 Share Posted October 5, 2003 I know I'm so late (have been busy) but so sorry about Pepper. And just like everyone said, don't blame youself, you saved her from a horrid life and showed her kindness. I know it could just has easily been me, Chaos did look like she would've killed Riley if they had been alone (and if she'd been bigger he outweighs her by 10 lbs) But anyway good luck with whatever choice to make, just don't be hard on yourself. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted October 5, 2003 Share Posted October 5, 2003 I was just curious how you and Sassy are doing? Please let us know! I hope you both are doing better. I forgot to mention something before, but keep in mind what purpose Sassy's breed was used for in the past..fighting. That may have an impact on how she behaves. Just something to think about..it's early don't mind me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pei obssessed Posted October 5, 2003 Share Posted October 5, 2003 [quote name='ThePoutyPitbull'] I forgot to mention something before, but keep in mind what purpose Sassy's breed was used for in the past..fighting. That may have an impact on how she behaves. Just something to think about..it's early don't mind me![/quote] Actually they were used for fighting only for a short time in the past. They have a far longer history of being farm dogs (watchdogs, hearding dogs) :wink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mouseatthebusstop Posted October 5, 2003 Share Posted October 5, 2003 when you know a s/pei they are the sweetest breed there is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted October 5, 2003 Share Posted October 5, 2003 ack! I was not implying that they were not nice dogs! I was just saying that even with a brief history of fighting, that it is something to think about. I'm not saying because of it Shar pei's are fight crazy or cannot be around other dogs. Sorry if you misunderstood what I was trying to say or if you were some how offended. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mouseatthebusstop Posted October 5, 2003 Share Posted October 5, 2003 a PIT BULL owner would not like the same comments. there are no bad dogs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted October 5, 2003 Share Posted October 5, 2003 Umm I [b]never[/b] said Sassy was a bad dog! And I would certainly think about my breeds history if they killed my dog or another dog. He/she is not bad for doing so..that was my WHOLE point! Because of my dogs breed fighting history, it is normal for them to have dog aggression. They would not be bad for hurting another dog. This was ALL that I was trying to say. And as a Pit bull owner, I would not be offended by those comments at all. I think you simply misunderstood me. I in no way said or meant Sassy was bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpeigirl Posted October 6, 2003 Author Share Posted October 6, 2003 :o Please everyone calm down. True a Pei was orignally a fighting dog from China, but it has been bred out of them down the years. But as the breed standered say's: Regal, alert, intelligent, dignified, lordly, scowling, sober and snobbish essentially independent and somewhat standoffish with strangers, but extreme in his devotion to his family. The Shar-Pei stands firmly on the ground with a calm, confident stature. I love Pei's & I have respect of Pits, so lets not get heated about the 2 breeds. Both have their good & bad points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 i think that person was just implying pei's are known to have dog aggression, so what your dog did was neither bad or wrong for the breed. i own three pei's myself and it did not offend my what was said. i was surprized no one else mentioned it. i doubt there was any ill will towards the breed meant. im also very sorry about what happend. i think just knowing dog aggression can be common should give you a place to start from to answer why. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pei obssessed Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 I didn't take it as an insult to the breed 8) And I personally don't think that Shar-pei are known for dog aggression, or that there is any reason to say dog aggression is common in the breed. And no, I'm not basing my opinion solely on my very friendly Pei (with dogs and humans), but also on what I've heard and read about Pei. Now I don't mean to imply that Sassy was a bad dog--just that what happenned is a dog behaved like a dog... I don't think the answer is in the breed in particular (it can be anywhere from dog instincts to breeding to socialization). Just my opinion... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted October 7, 2003 Share Posted October 7, 2003 [url]http://www.yourpurebredpuppy.com/reviews/chinesesharpei.html[/url] "Animal aggression. Many Chinese Shar Peis are dominant or aggressive toward other dogs, especially of the same sex. Many have strong instincts to chase and seize cats and other fleeing creatures. This is not a good breed to keep with livestock. If anything goes wrong in the breeding, socializing, training, handling, or management of this breed, it is capable of seriously injuring or killing other animals." [url]http://www.animalforum.com/dbreed/nschinsharpei.htm[/url] Breed characteristics and personality The Shar-Pei is independent and somewhat standoffish with strangers, but extreme in his devotion to his family. He stands firmly on the ground with a calm, confident stature. This breed does have some potential behavioral problems: aggression, biting, dominance, territorial, and other dog aggression. Therefore, the best owner is a quiet, predictable, strong, commanding leader with time to train, socialize, and exercise. [url]http://www.petpublishing.com/dogken/breeds/sharpei.shtml[/url] "Sadly, aggression can be a problem in improperly bred, selected and reared shar-pei, possibly harking back to the dog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pei obssessed Posted October 7, 2003 Share Posted October 7, 2003 [quote name='guest'] This breed does have some potential behavioral problems: aggression, biting, dominance, territorial, and other dog aggression. [/quote] yes, i agree, but so do many other breeds... [quote]"Sadly, aggression can be a problem in improperly bred, selected and reared shar-pei, possibly harking back to the dog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtnek Posted October 7, 2003 Share Posted October 7, 2003 and these problems can occur in ANY dog, as I said earlier. Sassy was a dominant animal, and Pepper was a dominant animal, they were bound to clash without intervention. And since it happened while no one was around to stop it, it ended up being final. I can tell you from experience, that if two dominant wannabe's come together, and no one is breaking up the tiff, bad things happen. That doesnt mean Sharpei did anything wrong, since this was completely unexpected on her part. I only know it from watching Freebee foam at the mouth when confronted by an also dominant dog, when I was trying to find a companion for her. She would tolerate only submission, nothing else would do. And she is a Lab/GSP mix....no fighting history, just lots of attitude..... I had to keep a constant watch on Freebee and Alex when I first brought him home. He wanted top spot, she wasnt giving it up, and if I hadnt been there to break them up there would have been serious injury to one or both....He backed down, and then all was well. However, if I didnt know that Freebee would react this way, I might have left them alone together figuring they'd work it out....One look at her face when I brought him in the house was enough to tell me that this was an issue. Unfortunatley, Sharpei didnt get the earlt warning I did.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted October 7, 2003 Share Posted October 7, 2003 guest I think you understand more what I was saying, but I was not saying Pei's or Sassy are bad. My post was not worded correctly and I think that Sassy's Mom has been through enough, so maybe we should just drop this, maybe? I really just wanted/want to know how they are both doing now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtnek Posted October 7, 2003 Share Posted October 7, 2003 no bad Kudos to you Pouty, I understood what you were saying. Bringing up the fighting history was valid, just in case it could be an issue. My post was to stress that fighting history or not, alpha wannabe's will fight. If one wont back down, there WILL be issues. I only wanted to stress this point because most people would never think that their dogs will fight, they're both so gentle, etc. UNTIL the pack rules kick in, which I know you uinderstand.... Sharpei, how are things going? Is Sassy looking more gentle now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpeigirl Posted October 7, 2003 Author Share Posted October 7, 2003 Hey everybody, today was a good day, we went to private training classes. And Sassy acted wonderfull, no aggersion at all towards the trainer, or her dog. She wanted to play with the other dog after training, but I thought better of it until we get her better in the obedience. She's doing a lot of sits & downs. And she doesn't get anything without doing a comand. So far so good, but still a long road Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mouseatthebusstop Posted October 7, 2003 Share Posted October 7, 2003 Keep at it :) it will be worth it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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