scared

[Guest Anonymous]

Great posts guys/Gals Except you are forgetting something.

A BREAKING STICK! Please read up on Apbt's now before your pup gets older a good positive book to read is Dianne Jessup's the Working Pit Bull and some other one that are informative on the History and capabilities of these dogs are the books by Richard Stratton You can find those books on e-bay for a reasonable price. Back to breaking sticks. Breaking sticks are the fastest easiest most reliable method for breaking up an APbt fight all of those books have sections on them. Read up.
There is also a great board you can visit about pitbull pets I don't know the addy but I think Gooeydog has it maybe he/she can give it to you. They have a great long post about how to break up accidental fights and although you may never need the info it is best to be prepared.
Also now is the time to socialize but make sure the pups vaccinations are kept current. I wouldn't drag your pup it will just scare him/her even more and she will in turn fight the lead even harder. I usually put the leash on them in the house and let them drag it around(Supervised of course) then once they seem to ignore it I pick it up and follow them around . After that I start following them around in the yard(this may take a few days) Once I get to that point I usually entice them along with treats and lots and lots of praise. Eventually you do not need the treats and the pup will get used to the lead and start enjoying the walks .Like mentioned before buy or read a book from the library on obedience training . Have fun with your pup and don't believe the Locking jaw myths or any other ones either.

[gooeydog]

Rott 'n pit, the problem with correcting the dog when it starts to show signs that it's about to go after another dog is that there's not always signs that you can see.... some dogs don't do the tails up, hackles raised thing, they'll wag their tails right up until the dog is close enough, then go flying at them. It depends on the individual dog. And some dogs will actually get even more intense if they're corrected, especially if you use a leash correction.

diamond, it's great that your dogs all get along now, but things will most likely change as your pup matures. She's just a baby, and is no real threat to the other dogs' ranks at this point, nor does she care about establishing her rank above them. If at some point she decides she's tired of being at the bottom of the heap (which she most likely will), there's a good chance that there will be conflicts between the dogs, and things can escalate quickly if another dog does something to "offend" a pit bull. She may even submit to them or put up with their bothering/nipping at her most of the time, but eventually she'll decide she's had enough, and when she does, she has the ability to seriously injure or even kill one of them within minutes.
Laduenda is right about breaking stick(s) being a good idea to have, but you should check with the local laws too, because in some places they're considered "fighting paraphenelia". You can see an example of a breaking stick here: [url]http://www.pbrc.net/breaksticks.html[/url] Here's the link to the board mentioned above: [url]http://pub89.ezboard.com/fdogcommunityfrm1[/url], and here's another site that provides a lot of info on bully breeds: [url]http://www.workingpitbull.com[/url]

[Hobbit]

Gooey -- good post, but sometimes I get the feeling that some of these APBT owners are thinking, "oh, that will never happen to my sweet little puppy, because I am going to raise her with love and affection and not train her to fight".

If you are thinking this, you have no idea of what's to come. Genetics are the ruling factor in a dogs life. You can not change their genetics (the 100's of year of breeding for certain traits) no matter what type of upbringing she/he has. You can only control the dog (to a certain extent).

Another thing that really bothers me is the notion that "all" APBT make wonderful, loving, safe pets. They do not. Just like every other breed of dog ---- there are good ones and bad ones. Every dog has a unique and individual personality that is governed by his/her genetics.

[Guest Anonymous]

[quote]Gooey -- good post, but sometimes I get the feeling that some of these APBT owners are thinking, "oh, that will never happen to my sweet little puppy, because I am going to raise her with love and affection and not train her to fight".
[/quote]

Unfortunatlely this is so true. So many people believe they can stop their dog from being dog agressive but this is in no way true. You cant. The people that think they can allow their APBT to run around with other dogs because "they are so well socialized" will loose their dogs and put numbers up for the humaniacs.
I actually agree with Laduenda about something... Breaking Sticks. Any APBT owner should carry one of these.
I am getting really tired of people saying APBTs need to be trained to fight. If you own a bulldog and believe this you should give the dog to someone who knows and understands the breed.

[Guest Anonymous]

Forgot something... Just because your dog has a red nose does not mean he is out of the old family red nose.

[gooeydog]

And of course the people who think "my dog would never do that, they love everything", "they're not from fighting lines", "they been raised only with love, never "trained" to fight", "they're very well trained, and they'd never disobey me", etc are the exact people who are usually so freaked out by their pit bull getting into a serious fight (due to their carelessness/ignorance) that they become afraid of the dog and either get rid of it or have it PTS. Then they carry on to everyone that the dog "turned" on it's "best buddy", and that they're sure it would have been a child next. After all, it was soooo friendly one second, then the next it was trying to kill another of "it's own kind". Often these very people, who once claimed that "it's all in how you raise them" will then decide that it must be "the breed", and that pit bulls really ARE unpredictable and dangerous. So not only do they create a ton of bad press when their dog injures/kills someone elses dog, but some of them also aid in the spread of myths of the breed because they can't stand to admit that THEY were the ones who messed up.

[Guest Anonymous]

Goo very true many dogs dont show signs but that is all in knowing your dog. A good point it that by the time your dog does show aggression it might be anywhere from 40 to 100 lbs depending on the lines. and by that time you need to have firm control over your dog. Yanking and pullin gon a leash is a horrible correction at this point. that is why i am a firm believer in getting your dog looking at you in an entire differnt direction. if need be put yourself between your dog and the other. APBTsarent people aggressive so if your dog is trained its a safe place to be. Get your dogs eyes off of the other dog as soon as you notice that he sees it. dont wait for the dog to be right on top of you.

Dog aggression cant be eliminated but it can be controlled. I dont care how much you baby you dog sooner or later it will have an incident... if you allow it to. the best defense is a good offense, if you make a conscious effort whenever another dog is around you will have a lot less to worry about. While dog-aggression is in the dogs blood there is a marked increase in the likelyhood of a squabble after your dog has its first one. Of course most dogs wont need any help in getting to that first squabble and often times that is how you find out that your dog no longer tolerates others or strangers. Breaking sticks are priceless but they are a like a double edged sword it it invaluble for getting an amped-p APBT to let go, but it also fuels public perception. Trust its better to have one and not need it than to need one and not have it. Words to live by.

Sidenote there are so many breeders that claim their lines are "old Family" but with even lightly looking into some peds you can see the truth. do you research and know what your looking for. The internet is your best friend when it comes to finding out stuff. I have looked up 10 generations of Drey ped so far. Dont let this scare you though these are all issues that you need to be aware of people will try to tell you thier own little pit facts just the other day i got the old 2200 PSI rumor again. I just smiled and nodded as i walked by. people are funny and the loopier the story the more it gets spread. anything that you hear that sounds alittle far-fetched look it up, you'l find out the truth for yourself.

[iceyshiver21]

I find that Pits are great dogs! :D Its not ever the dogs its the people. The best dog trainers follow this rule: "Look at not what the dogs did wrong, but what you did to make the dog go wrong."

[Guest Anonymous]

[color=blue][size=7][b]I agree with you I think that this is the most truthful post yet! I also think after reading some of the other postings that the people writing these are not real pitbull owners. I think that you have not only made these dogs sound like killers but you have made yourself not sound like good dog owner either. I cannot reply to all these post but I will say that I am shocked to see how uneducated some of you are about this breed I want to tell Diamond owner that you are on the right track love your pet and it is true the way you raise your pet is the way he or she will be keep on loving diamond and enjoy your "red nose" very very good breed! CONGRADS :) [/b][/size][/color]

[gooeydog]

Sure, a pit bull owner can happily visit the dogpark every day of their dog's life... and noone will mind when their dog eventually gets tired of being harrassed, goes for the other dog, and kills it. They can walk their 60 lb pit bull into a crowded petsmart on a flexi leash at full length, then panic, yell, and have a complete nervous breakdown when their dog goes flying under a display at another dog, because it's never done that before (this happened the other day while I was at petsmart... it took store personel and the owner nearly 10 minutes to get the dogs broken up and untangled... I just stood by and watched in disbelief). Afterwards they can claim that "he's never done that before", and the head trainer will claim that "most pit bulls are very unpredictable". All that's fine, and great publicity for the breed. Yet, if a pit bull owner should take their dog out in public on a leash and exercise caution around other dogs, not to mention warning new owners of the DOG aggression that will most likely show up at some point in the dog's life, they're making the dogs sound like killers and doing harm to the breed. They're also horrible owners for thinking that their dogs may one day act upon instincts that have been bred into them for hundreds of years. And of course they're not good dog owners for keeping their dogs away from situations that would cause conflict, or keeping their dogs on leash, or teaching them obedience, after all, what good dog owner does things like that? On a more personal note, I've owned a pit bull for nearly 10 yrs now, we've rescued/fostered several others since then, and currently have two living in our house(not nearly as much experience as many people involved in the breed). In addition, a good friend of mine's family has owned bull breeds for decades, and are always willing to "lend" their knowledge should I need help with something. What education do YOU have on the breed? Why do you think those pit bulls that you hear about on the news (barring those that aren't actually pit bulls) attack people? Do you think it's all in how they've been raised? If so, then how do you explain away the thousands of pit bulls who have been abused, starved, set on fire, "hacked up" with gardening tools, dragged behind cars, etc; yet still harbor a deep love for people? How do you explain away the dogs that have known nothing but love their entire lives, yet are still unstable, and end up being PTS because of it, or worse yet, attacking someone? Anyway, it's time for my "fake" (since I'm probably one of those people who are not "real" pit bull owners) pit bull to go outside again... they sure can be a lot of trouble for not even being real :lol:

[Guest Anonymous]

:modla: :beerchug: :klacz: enough said.

[Horsefeathers!]

Well, this is weird. This is the first day I've actually read any of this thread and find it so fascinating.

I used to believe, several yeas ago, that a dog was only a result of their upbringing. That business of "enough love, caring, socialization" stuff.

Many of you are familiar with my Penny. She's a Pit Bull (with a bit of Boxer thrown in, but not enough to deter her). I've had her since she was 4 - 5 weeks old and she was raised with all the love in the world. Socialized, too. She is actually great around people. However, a couple of years ago (about when she turned 2), she began turning on our other dogs. Just BAM she'd be on them without warning. It seemingly came out of nowhere. After all, she was raised around other dogs her entire life.

I am still reading and learning about what makes Pit Bulls tick. I am working with a vet who also specializes in behavior. She told me that Penny is basically being a Pit Bull (duh). It is only recently that I've stopped wondering where I went wrong. I can certainly vouch for the fact that the dog aggression comes naturally.

With intense monitoring, Penny lives just fine in a multiple dog household, BUT it's a huge responsibility. We have learned (and are still learning) how to read her. She is NEVER, EVER, under any circumstances, to be left unsupervised with any of our other dogs. MOST of the time, she is fine with them. It's just those times when she "snaps" and she's quick. We have to be quicker and we have to eliminate any chance she has to "snap."

She is on medication to help calm her a bit and we are going through different behavior modifications. I know there is nothing we can do to "cure" her of her aggression, but we do what we can to control it. I will say this... as much as I love this dog, if I'd known then what I know now (famous last words), I would NEVER have a Pit Bull in a multiple dog household. It's very stressful at times, having to watch her every move. If she dozes off, she MUST be crated since she would kill a dog who accidentally blundered into her. She's that fast and she doesn't bluff. If she ever attacks, she means it.

All this to say that I now know that the dog aggression comes naturally. I now know that it isn't solely a matter of upbringing. It has certainly been a lesson to me in breed specific behaviors. All the care and love in the world can't undo what ANY dog has been bred for.

It's certainly a matter of me wishing I'd known then what I know now, but it can't be undone. I can only do what I can do to try to be responsible.

What's weird is that I get really frustrated when I hear people say, "It's all in how they're raised. If a dog is raised right, there won't be any problems." I get so frustrated, yet it's how I used to feel. Live and learn, I reckon.

[Guest Anonymous]

i am actually starting to enjoy the spiderman thing now.... sorry im drifting. excellent post HF and its nice to hear from someone that is on the other side of the fence so to speak. I believe that more often than not a pitbull shouldnt be raised as a house dog with lots of dogs because it is so much harder. They can be bull-headed, stubborn, and grouchy, lazy, pouty, and down-right blah!! but they are so much fun that bully smile when you walk in the door from work. my girlfriend gets so mad at me. "YOu come in and roll in the floor kissing the dog before you even tell me HI!!!" i cant help it its something bully owners know its that stiff-legged little run to the door and the tail going, and looking into your eyes like you have been gone for years and they are about to explode with joy that you returned. Pit Bulls are exceptional dogs in all aspects.

[gooeydog]

[quote]A good point it that by the time your dog does show aggression it might be anywhere from 40 to 100 lbs depending on the lines. and by that time you need to have firm control over your dog. Yanking and pullin gon a leash is a horrible correction at this point. that is why i am a firm believer in getting your dog looking at you in an entire differnt direction. if need be put yourself between your dog and the other. APBTsarent people aggressive so if your dog is trained its a safe place to be. Get your dogs eyes off of the other dog as soon as you notice that he sees it. dont wait for the dog to be right on top of you. [/quote]
I missed this post earlier, but out of curiousity, have you ever tried to hold a dog aggressive APBT behind you with one hand as you try to scare away another dog with the other hand? :lol: It's an interesting experience, and you'll feel something like a break dancer as you move your feet all around in an effort to keep your dog from "peeking" through your knees while your feet are apart, then around your legs if you keep your feet together. :roll: :lol:

[Guest Anonymous]

me personally no this is my first apbt. But i do have a dog aggressive Rottweiler. He is very strong and can be quite hard headed. i have had th "privilage" of loose dogs running up to us Daz would love to pull and jump but as i have NEVER allowed that to go uncorrected he has LEARNED that pulling usually get the total opposite reaction he would hope. we got that stipulated when he was a 30 lb pup as opoose to a 130 lb adult. Now Dreydin we are already working on this behavior as he has the drive to get to other dogs too, right now its just to play but we are still going to work on sitting and not pulling. its the way i train my dogs i am kind of a control freak in that apsect. Its like in OB i dont train for a stay command. Because i feel that if i say sit the dog should sit until i release him or give another command. I love OB training and my dogs really enjoy it. It can only help especially in the case of dog aggression.

[courtnek]

As was stated earlier, most dogs can be trained to behave and be socialized with love and training, BUT - you can never really remove the
instincts that they were bred for. My dogs are lab mixes....

They run - they chew - they eat anything that's not nailed down....

Because of their breeding APBT's need to be handled a certain way and recognized that there is the potential for animal aggression. No amount of training will ever completely remove that. Just like no amount of training will ever stop my labs from needing to chew.....

[Guest Anonymous]

I know that, i never said anything about removing the want. your dog want to pee all over you house. a male has the drive to pee on any vertical object in reach but training mandates otherwise. my dog would love to rip apart the strays and loose dogs that run by in the neighborhood his training dictates that he not do that.

I am not unfamilliar with the breed i studied them exclusively over this last year before i even decided that was what i wanted. I know exactly what i am getting into, and am confident that i have enough time under my belt spent training various dogs of various breeds that i will be able to apply most of that knowledge here. I of course am learning more daily about the trianing aspects for APBTs specifically... and am always open to learn more. But the point that i am making is that one of the number one aspects to being a good dog owner is developing your dog, by knowing the nature of the beast so to speak it becomes a little easier to train for the proper reactions before the aggressions kick in. NO i am not suggesting that i will ever be able to trust Drey offlead, I personally dont believe that a pit bull should ever be off lead outside of the house or its own FENCED property.... EVER. no excuses not from the house to the car or vice-versa, it takes just that long for a dog or cat to catch thier eye and they are gone after it. and i tell you what trying to call an excited dog off a chase.... i dont think i need to tell you guys. perhaps if you catch them the second they noticed it but once the un is on forget it. not saying its impossible but i wouldnt trust the recall that far, its just safer to keep them leashed.

when i go for a walk and someone across the street has a dog i make sure that im not "that guy". dragging my dog down the block while it pulls and chokes itself going the other way to get another dog, i find that unacceptable for two reasons. 1. it simply makes the dog that much more aggressive to other dogs and 2. i dont want people to think of my dog as that seething monster that drags his poor owner.

Its not something that my dogs do now nor will it be tolerated when it starts by training your dog to simply sit down, you can save your self that image and experience.

[courtnek]

:D

You're preaching to the choir, Rott....LOL

My post was aimed at people who truly want to believe that you can train a dog out of it's instinctive and breed characterisitics. A dog should and MUST be trained to obey - I believe that's a given. Once that has been accomplished the dog is less likely to end up in the Petsmart siutation.
My only point was that the instsinct and breed characteristics never go away - not really - as my college Prof used to say (specifically about people wanting to own wolves) "You can take an animal out of the wild - you cannot take the wild out of the animal" - I believe this applies to breed specifics as well. That does not by any means imply that Pits are bad dogs - I like them alot. And I respect that fact thta you took the time to learn about yours.

I hate to see all the bad press about Pits, and Rotts, and all the laws preventing people from having them, etc....Alot of this could have been avoided with both proper public awareness, and MUCH STRICTER laws applying to anyone who gets caught dog-fighting. With ANY kind of dog, or cocks, or anything else.

[Guest Anonymous]

:oops: OH. :oops: I thought.... well when you said..... i uh.
Well yeah.

I guess i did fly into defense mode a bit huh? sorry about that. i dont know where that came from. i think i will go lay down now.

[courtnek]

Is ok!

:D

[Guest Anonymous]

Why do you think that the humane society is full of this breed? It is because they will turn on you, and attack a stranger. I was attacked by one as a small child. I opened my door one day to take out the trash, and a Pitbull ran into my house and chased my Shar-pei under my bed! Not to mention knocking me over, and I was 8 months pregnant. My next door neighbor had to come in and get him.
I know you love your pitbulls, but reality is some can not be trusted. When you hear about attacks on the media it is most likely a Pitbull. You can't even get homeowners Ins. if you own one. Now with all of these statistics about Pitbulls, and you wonder why people are afraid of them. People should fear them! They are dangerous! For the record I am a dog lover! I feel that the people who own Pitbulls love the power that comes with it. It is kind of like owning a loaded gun, ( that shoots at random)

[Queen Bitch]

Um, hun, people say the same crap about Peis. It doesn't mean it's true.

[Queen Bitch]

And if you are believing everything you read in the paper/see in the news, do you also believe that all african americans are evil/dangerous and will turn on you if you bring them into your home? Probably not because that would be ignorant, right? Give me a break.

[Guest Anonymous]

Ummmmm....
You say you were attacked as a SMALL child then went on to say you were 8 months pregnant????!! :roll: Come on!
And, yes,you can get homeowners insurance...at least I have it and I have SEVERAL APBTs.

[Guest Anonymous]

Thanks for your reply. I should have done a little proof reading before I hit send. I was talking about two seperate attacks. The first attack happened when I was 10, and the second attack occurred when I was 8 months pregnant.
(First attack) I was bitten on the hand when I was trying to get the dog off of me, and my father just so happened to be close by at the time. Oh! and the dog was on our property. I will not tell you what my father did, because I'm sure it will anger you. If by chance you were concerned about me. I had to have several stitches in my hand. You sound like one of those people that love their pitbulls more than people. (Second attack) Well, I think I explained that in my first reply.
As far as the remark about homeowner's insurance, most companies will not cover you if your pitbull bites someone, and they decide to sue you. Most insurance companies makes exclusions on certain breeds of dogs. Pitbulls are number one on the list of exclusions. They are a liability!
Finally, you need to "come-on!" There is a reason people fear them! They can not be trusted! They will turn on you! Do you know what both owners said to me? " I'm sorry, I don't understand? He has never done anything like this before." Let's not forget about the people that left their newborn in a room alone with their pitbull. If that attack is not good enough for you then I DON'T KNOW WHAT ELSE TO TELL YOU. I'm done with this conversation! For the record, I will sign any bill that stops people from breeding them.