Mary's Mama Posted February 26, 2003 Share Posted February 26, 2003 This is an article I found interesting. Though you all might to. [url]http://slate.msn.com/id/2079214/[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aroura Posted February 27, 2003 Share Posted February 27, 2003 Very interesting, makes alot of sence though... Tessa's racist, very racist. She hates black people and always has since I took her home from the pound all those years ago. I took her over to my piano teachers house soon after I got her, my teacher was suprised and said she'd seen the same dog wondering around just a few days earlier. The area where my piano teacher lives is right near the mission - for those who don't know the mission is where alot of poor aborigionals live. Now, not being racist myself, but from what I've seen alot of them will torment dogs at any chance they get, hence Tessa's attained hatred towards them. Lily on the other hand (who also dislikes blacks for different reasons) has a predjudice against children. Although I'm unhappy about it, I can understand why she goes psycho every time she sees one. I've looked out the window so many times to see children hanging over the fence, barking at her and throwing things, basically tormenting her to the point where she's in the situation that she wants to attack them. Its a real problem, but what can I do about it? They are always different children visiting different neighbours so I can't stop them from doing it, and it will be really hard to re condition her because who wants to introduce their child to a big mutt that will jump all over them? And what makes it worse is my anticipation of what will happen, so I get tense and Lily thinks she needs to protect me more and so gets more protective and aggressive. Any suggestions? :drinking: Oh, and just for the record I'll be taking out a loan to get Lily desexed early next week, so if hormones is a part of it that should help a little!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted February 27, 2003 Share Posted February 27, 2003 Dogs can definately be racist, this reminds me of a very famous movie called "White dog" it was about a large white german shepard that was conditioned to hate black people and was used to attack them during lynchings and things like that. Basically the guy would pay black people to beat the dog as a puppy and as it grew just the sight of a black person drove it into a rage and it would attack to kill. It something that is pretty wild but very true. Usually this went on down south and the movie was set there as well. Dogs are very easy to condition that is why during socialization you should let your dog meet people of all ages and colors, people in wheel-chairs and on crutches, people riding bikes and rollerskating, as many different scenarios as possible, and you have to make sure that there is a positive outcome because dogs dont forget that one time that they were hurt by that little girl and the next time they are in the situation they will be a little more tense just in case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mary's Mama Posted February 27, 2003 Author Share Posted February 27, 2003 Aurora - I dont know how you fix that kinda problem. The article stated that the couple with the pit was using a black trainer to help curb her issues. Maybe you could find a black trainer with a kid. :lol: Its worth a shot anyway. I was most intrigued with how our emotions travel to the dog. I think many people would treat their dogs differently and act differently around them if they understood that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bk_blue Posted February 27, 2003 Share Posted February 27, 2003 I think dogs and horses are very alike in some ways- they know instinctively how a person is feeling, and they can sense fear very well. If a horse has a bit of spirit and thinks you can't control her, she'll do everything she can to play up unless you're very firm, which is IMO very like some dogs I know. Mine!!! He's the perfect dog with my uncle, he's ok with the rest of the family and very good with me, but if someone else tries to walk him and have no idea what they're up against, he can tell and will pull and behave badly for them unless we correct him. When I was younger I went riding every weekend at the same place on the same horse, but was asked to take control of a horse that a rider wasn't managing on very well one day. He was like a pussycat in my hands, according to the leaders, who obviously thought I could handle horses. Which is not much to do with racism but more how some animals just KNOW things. They are way smarter than most people give them credit for. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aroura Posted February 28, 2003 Share Posted February 28, 2003 Mama, that sounds like a great idea! :lol: Actually we're doing something at obedience at the moment, teaching "steady for pats" where the dog has to sit there while another person in the group circles around it, getting closer but as soon as the dog stands up or gets excited the person walks away and the process starts again. It sounds so easy and its something that anyone can do, but its so hard to find a friend who will do it with you! And to do it consistantly too, every time someone meets the dog telling them to stay away until the dog is settle. If I can manage that though that will be the first step to introducing her to children, its hard to find a child who can controll a dog so the only way around that is to teach the dog to controll itself before it meets children. Hopefully in time she'll be a happy boxer just like all them other boxers out there :D Oh, and about the horses.... I'm terrified of them and they know it! I was chased around a paddock once by a territorial clidesdale stallion and he was massive, he attacked our car too and nearly knocked it over. No, I can honestly say I can't trust anything that could knock me out and knock my teeth out with so much as the flick of a hoof :o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtnek Posted March 1, 2003 Share Posted March 1, 2003 Aurora, you could try special "treat training" When I got Alex he could not stand the site of Mexicans, because of his former treatment by the abusive boyfriend. My sons best friend is Mexican, and with cheese and patience we got Alex to like Francisco and not growl at him. I would make him sit when Franc came by, and although he would still growl he was at least stationary. Once we got past the screaming lunge at the door we then started on treating him only when he didnt growl. After a while he would let Franc pet him, and then Franc would give him the cheese. Since making friends with Franc, other Mexicans no longer appear to bother him. It takes a while though - fear is hard to train out, so be patient with Lily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad4duchess Posted March 3, 2003 Share Posted March 3, 2003 sounds scary I hope Duchess dosn't decide black people are bad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bk_blue Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 I think Duchess will be fine mate... you are her daddy! :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mouseatthebusstop Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 my dogs like any-one who speaks to them. they are not a bit racist :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
behle Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 Dog's racists? NO Dog's conditioned by experiences? YES racism - The belief that a particular race, expecially ones own, is superior to other races. Discrimination or prejudice against a race or races based on this belief. Only human beings are racists! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yellowlabsrule Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 I don't think dogs are racist, but I think that if a certain kind of person (black, white, native american, whatever) was mean to them, then I think that they would connet all people of that color to them being mean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 Racism is also a predisposed notion or reaction to a person based on thier appearance or in this case the color of thier skin. Dogs are "conditioned" to dislike any dark-skinned person, therefore they are basing a reaction on the appeance of the individual that is racism. If you dont believe me please go and rent the movie "White Dog" it is a true story based in the south about that exact thing. Dogs are much like people in that often times the racist nature stems from a bad experience with someone of that race. They dont forget just like if a woman was attackd by a black man from then on she would be a little nervous around strange black men, same goes with a dog they will of course have indivduals that are known to them that they will still be okay with but strangers of that race would then not be trusted. Its not a difficult behavior to teach but it is darn hard to unteach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
behle Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 I see your points, but I still believe that is CONDITIONING, not racism. For me racism has more to do with intentional discrimination between subsets of human beings. All of this being based on the idea of superiority, keeping power over others, and maintaining the status quo. Dogs hating all garbage collectors-that's conditioning. Or dogs who are mistreated by men from then on preferring women; that's conditiong. Dogs belonging to caucasians disliking african americans, and dogs belonging to african americans who dislike caucasians are not racist. They have been conditioned, either through intent of their owners or through lack of opportunities to socialize with a diverse population. Through patience and consistency that conditioning can be reversed. Dogs can be conditioned through life experiences to ACT AS IF THEY ARE RACISTS, but they do not have the true INTENT OF RACISM IN THEIR MINDS as we human do. When is the last time you heard of a true human racist reversing their point of view? Can we agree to disagree? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtnek Posted March 5, 2003 Share Posted March 5, 2003 You are very correct Behle - what is mising here is HATE - Racism requires a certain superiority, a definite dislike, it's a taught problem, not an inheritied one. The same goes for dogs. You can TRAIN a dog to to respond badly to black people, or the dog can experience extreme cruelty at the hands of a Mexican, like Alex, which will make them more wary and suspicious of people of that race. But dogs dont HATE...they defend when necessary, but I dont believe they actually have "anything against" the attacker - their job is to defend. I dont believe they are capable of hate - they are only capable of what they have been taught or experienced. So are dogs "racist"? No, I dont think so. Can they be trained to act like racists? yes, definitely. deliberately or by experience. You have to think of a dog sometimes like a child. A bad experience stays with them forever. It takes a LOT of training to beat fear. And dog "racism" is based on training, or fear...They want to please, you tell them to distrust all black people, all mexicans, they wil do that. The training can be broken... the fear is a little harder. They dont have the intellectual capability of becoming racists without our help.... That's the SAD part.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtnek Posted March 5, 2003 Share Posted March 5, 2003 p.s. Both of my dogs cant stand the mailman. He is Phillipino - the lady mail carrier is Japanese, they cant stand her either.... Because he is Phillipino? Because she is Japanese? No, because my mail slot is in my door. These people are tresspassing on THEIR territory.....they are protecting their territory. I do not believe that dogs can be truly racist....If the mail carriers would let me introduce them to the dogs, all would be well. They consider them strangers tresspassing on their turf. That's all.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted March 5, 2003 Share Posted March 5, 2003 For that matter the mailman could be purple with pink spots and Daz would still hate him. But i think that was awell stateed and thought out argument Behle, lets agree to agree. The hate element is definately lacking in the equation althought it can definately appear as racism and in the most basic form of the word it is, but as for the actual thought process to say hey there is a black, mexican, white, or whatever color person and to actually relate the person to a specific trait or group is not there, instead its more of "Mom/dad likes it when i bark at those people so i better do it type of thinking. good arguments for all well said, :black: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted March 5, 2003 Share Posted March 5, 2003 Ok I have to chim in here. My first dog was a small white mutt, she was pretty much a home and neighborhood dog. When she was about 6yrs old we had a subsitute mail man "black" come to the house beacuse our regular guy was sick. Now my dog just loved everyone she met and it was no trouble to let her run free "supervised but free" in our front driveway. Well when she saw this new mail man she freeked out and started to bark and show her teeth. The only thing I could think of for this reaction is that she was freeked out to see a person of collor for the first time....go figure. I mean he was a nice guy and was very easy going about the dog and all so I felt no tension or fear from him that may have influnced the dogs reaction. On the other hand my dog also did not like hard rock music.....dam racest music hating dog :lol: Regards, Goblin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted March 5, 2003 Share Posted March 5, 2003 it has good taste J/J :D :black: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linlin_21 Posted May 18, 2006 Share Posted May 18, 2006 I think its true that dogs arent racist with people they have only had bad experiences but how about when a dog is racist with all black dogs it sounds weird but my dog luda is like that i have 3 dogsand luda wont go near my other black dogeverytime she goes near him he growls and tries to fight her. any advices? :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lkeffect Posted July 6, 2006 Share Posted July 6, 2006 I think there are dogs that are definitely afraid/aggressive toward some races of people. It's often times owner conditioning or it can just be the dog has never seen a person of that particular race before and it freaks them out. I just recently trained a Samoyed who's owners lived in an all white community. They are now moving to Africa....the dog completely freaks out when he sees an African American person. I addressed it like any fear aggression situation and slowly increased the stimulus. I started with having the dog in the vacinity of some kids playing and when he finally relaxed I praised him, let the kids get a little closer etc etc. The dog is fine now and treats african americans the same as anyone else now. I'm sure moving the dog to Africa might be a bit of a shock but I think it will be a culture shock anyway you go about it. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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