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Guest Anonymous

I am considering adopting a Dobbie named Dozer. he is at a local rescue. I am absolutely in love with him. he has a lot of energy and is very sweet. He is between 1-2 years old.

He is in a home with 4 other dogs and seems to do well. I have 3 other dogs and I was wondering if Dobermans seem to get along with other dogs well. His energy level is the same as my Dane. She is 7 months old and very hyper. I plan to put both through agility to relieve some energy.

He seems to be a submissive member of his current family. This is key because I have an alpha male in our home already. He is my 3 year old English Mastiff.

Other than work I do nothing else but work with my dogs. It is my hobby. Do doberman's do well with a lot of human interaction. How about training? what am I going to get into with him?

Any other advice is appreciated.
Thanks

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Guest Anonymous

[color=darkred][quote name='Dog Lady']I am considering adopting a Dobbie named Dozer. he is at a local rescue. I am absolutely in love with him. he has a lot of energy and is very sweet. He is between 1-2 years old.

He is in a home with 4 other dogs and seems to do well. I have 3 other dogs and I was wondering if Dobermans seem to get along with other dogs well. His energy level is the same as my Dane. She is 7 months old and very hyper. I plan to put both through agility to relieve some energy.

He seems to be a submissive member of his current family. This is key because I have an alpha male in our home already. He is my 3 year old English Mastiff.

Other than work I do nothing else but work with my dogs. It is my hobby. Do doberman's do well with a lot of human interaction. How about training? what am I going to get into with him?
[/quote][/color]

[color=red][/color]Hi,
I have a six year old Dobe bitch and a two year old male. I would emphatically recommend that you do not take this dog. I understand that he is living quite happily being submissive in his current family but, he is really still a very young boy. It's quite possible that he has not yet reached the level of maturity that would "push" him to challenge for the alpha position. If he's one, he's still a puppy and if he's two he's an adolescent...perhaps not ready to challenge but, certainly getting there. Dobermans, especially the males, tend to mature late....they remain pups for a long time!

Doberman males, as a general rule, DO NOT do well with other males. Yes, there are a some exceptions but, as a general rule Doberfolk know that if they choose to have a multi male household they must be able to keep the dogs separated for the rest of their lives if an incident occurs. (Assuming both dogs survive the incident.) No together with supervision, no noses touching over dog gates...separated with a good solid door or barrier of some type between them. Because of this, few Doberfolk do keep multi male households.

This is absolutely normal behavior for male Dobes. The Dobe standard specifially says that an aggressive or belligerent attitude towards other dogs shall not be deemed viciousness.

I train three dogs in agility. My bitch, my dog and the sire of my dog...as a favor to the owner/breeder. My dog and his sire are perfectly able to remain near each other or near other male dogs when they are on lead or actively working with me. They understand that any displays will be not be tollerated. My male is a great big sweetie, a lovable face-licking boy! His sire (who is my bitch's littermate) is a therapy dog and just a great big sweet boy (multi BIS BISS). These two dogs who are so well behaved on lead or while working can not be allowed to interact offlead in any situation. They would seriously fight. When I have been transporting them both crated in my van they will snarl or growl at each other.

If you really want a Dobe, you'd be much better off getting a bitch. If you are interested in a bitch, there is a National Doberman rescue organization.

Dobes are wonderful dogs but, they're not for everyone. They're also highly intelligent and if you don't "run the show" they certainly will! Heavy socialization and obedience training is mandatory with a Dobe. Some folks refer to Dobes as "velcro dogs". They want to be with their people and are highly trainable.

As far as what would you do with a Dobe? Go look at my website! I've done or am doing agility, obedience, therapy dog work, tracking and herding. Not enough time in the day here! <G>

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  • 5 weeks later...

Hi all,

I have heard that male dobes can be aggressive, but they never say if the males are intact or have been neutered. Do you or anyone know if that "other dog aggression" applies to neutered dobes as well as intact ones? I don't like constant aggression and am considering adopting a male dobe (soon to be neutered) and so of course, am curious. At the moment he is quite young and so does not know about mature male issues. If you fix them soon enough, before they mature, can you nip the aggression in the bud? Opinions requested and welcome..... :)

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[quote name='pets4ever']Hi all,

I have heard that male dobes can be aggressive, but they never say if the males are intact or have been neutered. Do you or anyone know if that "other dog aggression" applies to neutered dobes as well as intact ones? I don't like constant aggression and am considering adopting a male dobe (soon to be neutered) and so of course, am curious. At the moment he is quite young and so does not know about mature male issues. If you fix them soon enough, before they mature, can you nip the aggression in the bud? Opinions requested and welcome..... :)[/quote]

Generally speaking neutering, even at a very young age, will have little or no impact on male to male Doberman agression.

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Guest Anonymous

Cut and Dry male dobes are aggressive. They are a very vocal breed that is pretty no nonsense when it comes to other males. I would also not reccomend getting the rescue. If you are really interesed in dobes you want to look into the breed and you will see that there are some things that make them difficult to own but easy to love. Very smart sometimes too smart, protective, agressive, obedient, loyal(like no other), but there are disadvantages. temperment, wobblers, they LOVE to sleep in the bed and lay on the couch, not a breed for the floor so you have to be able to deal with it. I love Dobies though they are an excellent breed but to get a good one your gonna have to either get extremely lucky or pay a pretty penny.

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Actually, this dog I'm talking about is not a rescue, it's a older puppy from a good breeder. His temperament is right for what I want (not alpha, not hyper, smart)...it's just his sex. I should think a good part of it is individual and socialization. I was just wondering since I've heard that male dobes are aggressive. They implied no leeway - just like a couple of the responses from my original question. Hmmmm. This pup sounds right otherwise and I AM tired of waiting for the right temperament female and taking a gamble that there will be the right temperament in the litter. His age is also nice since I will be able to skip the baby puppy puddles etc. and the ear taping duties.

I usually have female dogs and have had a couple dog aggressive females. The only male dog I've ever had was intact and never picked a fight with anyone. He could get along with whoever. So you see...I'm a little confused. Of course I'm going to question the breeder a little more before I do anything but this group is the perfect place to get a lot of info and real life experience very quickly! :wink:

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[quote name='pets4ever']Actually, this dog I'm talking about is not a rescue, it's a older puppy from a good breeder. His temperament is right for what I want (not alpha, not hyper, smart)...it's just his sex. I should think a good part of it is individual and socialization. I was just wondering since I've heard that male dobes are aggressive. They implied no leeway - just like a couple of the responses from my original question. Hmmmm. This pup sounds right otherwise and I AM tired of waiting for the right temperament female and taking a gamble that there will be the right temperament in the litter. His age is also nice since I will be able to skip the baby puppy puddles etc. and the ear taping duties.

I usually have female dogs and have had a couple dog aggressive females. The only male dog I've ever had was intact and never picked a fight with anyone. He could get along with whoever. So you see...I'm a little confused. Of course I'm going to question the breeder a little more before I do anything but this group is the perfect place to get a lot of info and real life experience very quickly! :wink:[/quote]

OK, let me see if I can explain a bit. Almost every single male Dobe I personally know, and I know a lot of them, is dog aggressive toward other males. Some of those Dobes are rescues but the overwhelming majority are very well bred Dobes that belong to members of the local Doberman Pinscher club. It's a breed thing. Male Dobes, intact or not, are almost always dog aggressive toward other male dogs.

I can only think of one male Dobe that I know who is not aggressive toward other male dogs. He's the exception to the rule.

On the other hand, male Dobes almost alway submit to the resident bitch. My bitch rules the roost with an iron paw. She pins my male to the ground by his neck quite regularly. Also stands over him to show her dominance. She can only do this because he submits to it....he outweighs her by 20 pounds.

You may see many male Dobes in close vicinity at shows, obedience trials and the like and tend to get the impression that they get along famously. this is very wrong. Dobes are very intelligent and highly trainable....part of the training is to define what is acceptable behavior and what isn't. I have no worries with regard to the behavior of my male when he is walking with me on a lead, heeling offlead or working agility offlead. He's under my control and knows that any male dog who crosses his path is to be ignored. I would never just turn him loose and let him meet other males. That would be asking for someone to get hurt. No, he's never attacked another dog but if another dog went for him I do believe that there's an excellent chance that he'd respond in kind.

Talk with the breeder. Any responsible breeder will tell you the same things that I've told you. Unless it's to someone with a LOT of Doberman experience, no responsible breeder will sell a male pup to a home that already has a male dog of any breed.

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Thanks Nancy, that was a good explanation. Do you think your male would fight if another male just wanted to play? I want to take my dog places etc. but if I ever had him at a beach or something and another dog bounded over, I would like to think it wouldn't be instant war. It would be nice if they'd play if they weren't both dominant and at the same level. Or it would be fun if he'd play with my friends dogs when we visit. Is there something special about male dobes that make people choose them just to be neutered companions? Why would people want to deal with aggressiveness if females aren't? ( I don't want to offend people who have or prefer males)...just asking for the heck of it. Maybe they are more laid back or extra sweet? :)

I will ask the breeder about his aggression levels specifically and how he reacts to strange males. I didn't do this before but then she knows what I'm looking for. It's just that all other factors are good. By the way, my other dog is an older spayed female.

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[quote name='pets4ever']Thanks Nancy, that was a good explanation. Do you think your male would fight if another male just wanted to play? I want to take my dog places etc. but if I ever had him at a beach or something and another dog bounded over, I would like to think it wouldn't be instant war. It would be nice if they'd play if they weren't both dominant and at the same level. Or it would be fun if he'd play with my friends dogs when we visit. Is there something special about male dobes that make people choose them just to be neutered companions? Why would people want to deal with aggressiveness if females aren't? ( I don't want to offend people who have or prefer males)...just asking for the heck of it. Maybe they are more laid back or extra sweet? :)

I will ask the breeder about his aggression levels specifically and how he reacts to strange males. I didn't do this before but then she knows what I'm looking for. It's just that all other factors are good. By the way, my other dog is an older spayed female.[/quote]

Gee, I wrote a long answer earlier today but it seems to have gone into cyber oblivion so I'll try to cobble it together again.

Please don't take what I'm about to say the wrong way and be offended. A Doberman is not a Golden or Lab in a snazzy short hair black suit. The way a breed looks is only a very small part of what a breed is about. Dobermans were developed as personal protection dogs. They are naturally protective. Your example of a "dog bounding up" has two problems. First, if it's a male dog bounding up no male Doberman is gonna care why he's bounding up (play or not) he's just gonna care that a male dog is trying to invade his space. He will want to attack the dog. The second problem is how exactly the dog is "bounding up". If a Doberman, male or female, decides that a dog is approaching in a threating manner they will move to protect their owner.

I think it would be a very good idea for you to do some more research into Doberman breed characteristics. Perhaps you could start by reading the information published on the Doberman Pinscher club of America website [url]www.dpca.org[/url]

I think Dobermans are beautiful dogs but they do require a larger committment than many other breeds. Male Dobes are 75 pounds or more, all muscle with four on the floor to dig in with. A responsible owner must do much more obedience work and socialization with a Dobe than the average Golden or Lab requires. You need to evaluate your lifestyle and what you expect/want from a dog. If you want a male dog that will play with dogs that bound up to him, do not get a Doberman. If you want a male dog that will happily play with your friend's male dogs, do not get a Doberman.

As to why anyone would want to own and deal with male Dobe aggressivness. It depends on the person's lifestyle. Dealing with a male Dobe is pretty easy for me. I was already quite used to dealing with the obedience and socialization requirements for a bitch so, the only thing I needed to add was to always be aware of other male dogs. My dogs get to run and play in protected areas with a few friends female dogs but most of the time they play with me. My dogs never go to dog parks, my dogs are never allowed to run loose in an unfenced area. A great deal of my time is involved in training my dogs....both obedience and agility.

For Dobe owners a male/female Dobe is the most common two dog household.

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Hi,

I've read everything I can find about dobermans. I've gone to breeder, individual and general doberman websites and read everything. I've read about diseases and as much about behaviour as they give out (which isn't that much). If you have a favorite site I'd love to have it. My goals are to do competetive obedience and agility like you. I'm impressed by all the degrees after your dog's names. I'm glad to get the opinion of a real life dobe owner! I'm very respectful of leash laws etc. and don't let my dogs run loose...but you just never know what will happen in life, y'know?. I would like to take this dog around with me and other people do take their dogs out too! I just wanted to minimize problems and be able to enjoy my dog out without having to deal with him (or her!) challenging every other dog. My last dog was crazy dominant and was a female! It made everything difficult and I am hesitant to do that again. Of course, if I get a male that is not alpha it would be less a problem. I will talk to the breeder again before I decide. I wonder also, since she is the boss at home, does your female ever show dominance aggression to other dogs? Do dobe females tend to be the same way or maybe to a lesser degree? Are all dobermans more or less the same way towards other dogs? Sorry about all the questions. I only know a few doberman owners and their knowledge is limited to their experience. I gather info whenever I can! :wink: Thanks !

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How old is this puppy? That could have a LOT to do with how he does or does not react to strange males NOW. Most puppies are just that, puppies. It is when they are a little older that the dominance shows up.

Nancy, In your experience, at what age do the boys start showing the dog aggressive side?

Pets4ever,

If I were you I would NOT settle for a male if you really want a female. Believe me I have gone that route before. More often than not, you end up being sorry that you didn't just wait and get your first choice.

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[quote name='pets4ever']Hi,

I've read everything I can find about dobermans. I've gone to breeder, individual and general doberman websites and read everything. I've read about diseases and as much about behaviour as they give out (which isn't that much). If you have a favorite site I'd love to have it. My goals are to do competetive obedience and agility like you. I'm impressed by all the degrees after your dog's names. I'm glad to get the opinion of a real life dobe owner! I'm very respectful of leash laws etc. and don't let my dogs run loose...but you just never know what will happen in life, y'know?. I would like to take this dog around with me and other people do take their dogs out too! I just wanted to minimize problems and be able to enjoy my dog out without having to deal with him (or her!) challenging every other dog. My last dog was crazy dominant and was a female! It made everything difficult and I am hesitant to do that again. Of course, if I get a male that is not alpha it would be less a problem. I will talk to the breeder again before I decide. I wonder also, since she is the boss at home, does your female ever show dominance aggression to other dogs? Do dobe females tend to be the same way or maybe to a lesser degree? Are all dobermans more or less the same way towards other dogs? Sorry about all the questions. I only know a few doberman owners and their knowledge is limited to their experience. I gather info whenever I can! :wink: Thanks ![/quote]

OK, thanks for explaining things a bit more. It helps to know where you're coming from. Now I just have to figure out how to explain without writing a novel and where to start! :D

Dobermans can excell at obedience and agility. I own two Dobes that have sometimes placed above Border Collies in agility trials. That's not an easy thing to do! So, as far as suitability of the breed for the formal activities you wish to persue goes it's a match.

Dobermans are naturally atheletic, intelligent and highly trainable. I've only owned/trained one bitch and one male but have discussed training issues with many other Doberman owners. I'm certain that there are exceptions to the "rule" but, we think that bitches are far easier to train than males. Bitches mature, both mentally and physically, far earlier than males do and I'm sure that has a lot to do with it.

Dobermans need STRONG leadership. That is not to say that they need to be trained with correction based training methods. Both of my Dobes were and are primarially trianed with a clicker, positive reinforcement. That is not to say that they did not receive the occasional corrections, with a high drive protection breed it is sometimes necessary to use a correction. Not often and not for obedience/agility commands, more related to coping with the natural "guard" instincts. In short, Dobes need a consistent, loving yet firm hand that always lets them know that you are in charge. (not heavey handed) A Doberman owned by someone unable to supply the above is smart enough to realize that and will ultimately wind up running the show...which can be dangerous.

If you wish to do obedience/agility with a Dobe you need a Dobe that will have an apprioate amount of drive. The USA has a bit of a split in the breed, working lines and show lines.

Working line Dobes are usually higher drive than show line Dobes. I've met some that were very much like my dogs when it comes to the level of activity they need. I've also met others that were so high drive, somewhat like a Border Collie, that I could never live with them. Some working line Dobe breeders incorporate European dogs into their breeding program. This usually increases the amount of drive and sharpness. I personally would not purchase a working line Dobe because I do not wish to cope with the level of drive that would probably be present but, that's a personal decision for anyone to make. For some folks, that's exactly what they want.

Show line Dobes are from breeders who predominately breed to show at AKC conformation shows. (All show line breeders will also produce some "pet" pups in every litter.) Some lines of show Dobes have a nice amount of drive but there is the occasional line that pretty much have the drive bred out of them. Both of my Dobes are from show lines so, it doesn't mean that a show line Dobe can't successfully compete. In the past few years there are quite a few show Dobe breeder who have place Dobes in performance homes. Many of those Dobes are successfully competing in performance events.

My Dobes have the amount of drive I want. They love to "play" agility with me yet are very happy to snuggle on the sofa too. One of the first things you need to do is define the level of drive you want in your Dobe. No, a breeder can't tell you exactly what you're gonna get from a pup but, indicators will be there....both in the pup itself and in the pedigree.

do you have a copy of the pup you're considering's pedigree? If not, do you at least know the name of the sire and dam? If you have the sire and dam's names you can go to the store on the AKC website ([url]www.akc.org[/url]) and order a pedigree. Once you get a pedigree take a look at the dogs behind your pup. How many of the dogs have some type of performance title? How close up are they....are they way back where there will be little impact on your pup? If you know the names of the siblings to your pup's sire and dam you can do a search of the AKC store database to see what titles they've earned. Do they have any performance titles? The titles are just an indicator for you. Lack of any titles doesn't mean that the pup doesn't have a chance. If you look at my kid's website both Whitney and Mason's pedigrees are posted. Whit really doesn't have much of anything up close in performance titles yet she's competing with success. Mason, on the other hand, has a sire competing in agility. Between my two dog, Mason has far more drive and desire to compete than Whit but, that doesn't mean she can't do it at all....I just don't think she'll go as far as Mason ultimately will.

The best way to get an idea of what you would be getting in the pup would be to do puppy testing on the pup. I can't even begin to explain this...done correctly, it give a very good indication of the pup's natural drives and tendancies. I don't personally puppy test pups that I'm considering, I get a woman I know who has years of experience to do it. Perhaps there's someone in your area who does this? A local all breed kennel club or an agility training club may be able to refer you to someone.

BTW, health issues. You mentioned that you'd read up on them. Have you checked the OFA database to see that both the sire and dam of the pup are listed with a good or excellent rating. All you need to do is go to [url]www.offa.org[/url] and enter the sire/dam's name into the searh engine. If they've been done and the results were permitted to be listed they'll pop up. If they don't pop up then I would suspect that they either had not been done or that the results were not favorable. Agility is hard on a dog, correct structure is important!

I'm going to post this for now so I don't lose it. I will continue in another post.

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[quote name='pets4ever']Hi,

I've read everything I can find about dobermans. I've gone to breeder, individual and general doberman websites and read everything. I've read about diseases and as much about behaviour as they give out (which isn't that much). If you have a favorite site I'd love to have it. My goals are to do competetive obedience and agility like you. I'm impressed by all the degrees after your dog's names. I'm glad to get the opinion of a real life dobe owner! I'm very respectful of leash laws etc. and don't let my dogs run loose...but you just never know what will happen in life, y'know?. I would like to take this dog around with me and other people do take their dogs out too! I just wanted to minimize problems and be able to enjoy my dog out without having to deal with him (or her!) challenging every other dog. My last dog was crazy dominant and was a female! It made everything difficult and I am hesitant to do that again. Of course, if I get a male that is not alpha it would be less a problem. I will talk to the breeder again before I decide. I wonder also, since she is the boss at home, does your female ever show dominance aggression to other dogs? Do dobe females tend to be the same way or maybe to a lesser degree? Are all dobermans more or less the same way towards other dogs? Sorry about all the questions. I only know a few doberman owners and their knowledge is limited to their experience. I gather info whenever I can! :wink: Thanks ![/quote]

OK, here's part 2.

I'll start with a bit of an explanation of the basic dominance issues with Dobes. In a multi Dobe household, one male and one or more bitches, almost invariably a bitch will be the alpha dog. That's just the way it is. Yes, some bitches can be such "strong" alphas that bringing them places can involve taking the same precautions that you would with male/male Dobe/dog aggression but, that is not the norm. That is not to say that you can take a less alpha Dobe bitch everywhere with you and expect her to happily play with any dog who comes up to her. My bitch is dominante over my male, definately the alpha in our house but, she's not at all what I would call a strong alpha. At classes or trials she's quite happy to play with dogs that she knows. OTOH, if we're at a trail and a strange dog/bitch ran up to play and got right in her face chances are that she would react poorly. This is normal for a Dobe. This is not a gregarious breed out to play with any dog who might be wandering around. It's important to "introduce" any new dog who may be playing with the accepted "pack" of dogs before it gets in my bitch's "face".

A lot of how a Dobe bitch reacts to other dogs wanting to play depends on the level of socialization it received from the time it was a young pup. Whitney was my first Dobe and I got her at the age of 18 months old. Her breeder did a pretty good job of socialization but, I think she would be a bit more easy about strange dogs coming up to play if I had had her from the time she was a pup.

Mason I had from young puppyhood and worked on socialization very heavily. Pretty much any bitch who runs up to him will be greated with joy and he'll want to play. If a male ran up to him he'd want to fight or, if a very young male, dominance hump. The male/male dog aggression in Dobermans has NOTHING to do with being an alpha dog. Mason most certainly is not an alpha dog, most male Dobermans are not alpha in their homes.

Now, as far as taking a dog out and around with you goes....I don't know what to tell you because I'm not sure where you're talking about. I regularly take both Mason and Whit to malls or grocery stores to practice heeling or obedience routines. Lots of pedestrian traffic, lots of strange folks who want to meet them, very good for them. I have the utmost confidence in both of them in a situation like that. Of course, there are no stray dogs running around there!

The other places I take my dogs are all dog related. Yeah, my life pretty well revolves around dogs! :) We go to the training center. I'm an instructor there so in addition to having my dogs in classses, I frequently take them over to work on attention or obedience while other classes are going on....distraction training. Yes, there are dogs there but, I know all of them. I know what to expect from them and, except for the higher levels of training, all dogs are onlead unless they're taking their turn to work. The higher level competition dogs are all dogs that my dogs know. My bitch has no problem with any of them and I just have to watch that the males do not come too near my male. The owners of the males are also aware that their dogs need to stay out of Mason's face.

I do have other friends who own dogs but choose not to train competively with them. My dogs have not met those dogs. They have no reason to meet those dogs. If I go out to dinner at one of their homes I'm not gonna bring my dogs. I really can't think of a reason why they should meet. I dunno, perhaps you're thinking about going for long walks with a friend(s) and their dog(s)? In that case you'd be better off with a bitch that you could "introduce" to the other dogs on neutral ground. If you had a male Dobe and your friends had a male dog, you would have to be very careful to keep them apart.

I think that one thing you really need to consider is that, aside from puppyhood when Dobes are wild to play, Dobermans are really more people oriented than dog oriented. My Dobes have sometimes gonne many weeks without playing with another dog. They really don't care....they'd rather be playing with me. Yes, if we meet some of their doggy friends at the training center they're happy to play but, if I go near any of the agility equipment they'll run to me. They'd rather play with me than run with the other dogs.

I really think you would be far better off with a bitch. It can be frustrating searching or waiting for the right Dobe. I know, I waited 2 years for Mason. It's worth it.

As far as other boards or lists go, you could read the Doberman Discussion Forum it's at [url]http://www.network54.com/Forum/11341[/url] There's a Yahoo email list that is strictly for folks working Dobermans in agility [url]http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DobeAgility/[/url] There's an email list called Doberworld with a lot of general Doberman information. It's mostly aimed at first time Dobe owners so, I don't have the address anymore but a search would probably turn it up. There's also an email list called Cyberdobes. Cyberdobes may or may not interest you. There are over 1000 folks on it...breeders, owners, profesional handler, judges all kinds of folks. Topics can range all over the place, lots of good info and a lot of garbage at times. If you want to give it a try I think you can subscribe through the Cyberdobes website [url]www.cyberdobes.com[/url]

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[quote name='Black GSD']
Nancy, In your experience, at what age do the boys start showing the dog aggressive side?
.[/quote]

My Dobe's sire tollerated my dog until he was about six months old. At that time Gent started "lifting a lip" at Mason so they have never been allowed to interact offlead since then.

Some male Dobes will not tollerate a male pup no matter how young and others seem to tollerate them until the pup is about to reach sexual maturatity. It varries all over the place. The only constant is that male Dobes, in the long run, will not get along.

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[quote name='Black GSD']The reason I asked this, is that I get the feeling that the origional poster doesn't think that the pup she is thinking about getting has shown any of these tendancies yet. So I was wondering at what age he would most likely start. I still don't know how old this pup is anyway.[/quote]

Oh, guess I didn't answer that very well! :oops:

Mason is two years old and only now starting to show signs of aggression toward other male dogs. Onset of same sex aggression among male Dobes varies a lot. Some pups start with dominance humping and aggressive displays before they're one.

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Hi - I'm back. Anyway, the pup now is only almost five months old. I need to talk to the breeder again and get more details regarding this aggression subject. His parents are working, his father is quite degreed in Schutzhund and the mother, although from working lines, has essentially no "drive" and is into obedience. Of course they have been screened and are healthy with good hips etc. This is a reputable breeder and she has good dogs. This puppy did not inherit the fathers intensity and is instead more easy with a sunny personality. They are not in my area so I am letting the breeder recommend pups to me. I'm glad for that since I trust them to know those pups better than me. The breeder knows exactly what I want and is selecting the best one for me. She thinks that this pup would work out well for me and the good part is that he's older with finished ears and a developed bladder! :)

As for the male/female thing, I had said I preferred a female since I didn't want to deal with "marking" that males do. However, after talking to people with males etc. and the breeder, I decided to keep an open mind since they all said if you neuter them at 5 or 6 months, they don't mark or develop other annoying male habits. I told her I would consider a male if he had the right temperament rather than settle for a female with a less favorable temperament. I am going to ask her about the aggression factor that Nancy is talking about though. There are many people who love their male dobes so they can't be all bad, eh? :wink:

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[quote]they all said if you neuter them at 5 or 6 months, they don't mark or develop other annoying male habits[/quote]

Just a note on this, they are incorrect. Jesse was neutered right at 6 months, he started lifting his leg and marking when he was about a year old. When I was doing the final walkthough prior to buying my house I had him with me. He hiked his leg on a wall upstairs. So glad the then owners didn't see that! I have to keep one eye on him every minute I am in Petsmart, he once peed on an employees ankle, he was aiming for the display she was leaning against. He has tried to hump other dogs since he was about 8 months old.
Perhaps SOME males will not present these behaviours, certainly not all.

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[quote name='Carolk9s'][quote]they all said if you neuter them at 5 or 6 months, they don't mark or develop other annoying male habits[/quote]

Just a note on this, they are incorrect. Jesse was neutered right at 6 months, he started lifting his leg and marking when he was about a year old. When I was doing the final walkthough prior to buying my house I had him with me. He hiked his leg on a wall upstairs. So glad the then owners didn't see that! I have to keep one eye on him every minute I am in Petsmart, he once peed on an employees ankle, he was aiming for the display she was leaning against. He has tried to hump other dogs since he was about 8 months old.
Perhaps SOME males will not present these behaviours, certainly not all.[/quote]

One of our neutered males displays EVERY behavior that an intact male does. He just can't sire pups....but he goes thru EVERY behavior associated with being a NON-neutered male.

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My dog acts like he's still intact too (he was done when we got him ie. 6mths), it drives me nuts but we're dealing with it and making very slow progress.

Re: Dobe socialising:
There is a very well-behaved spayed female Dobe who hangs out at the off-lead dog park where I take BK. She's great with all the other dogs, even the tiny "prey" ones, I'm unsure of her age though. She doesn't like BK though because he tried to hump her and anytime he goes near her she barks at him. :roll:

Fred (Dobe who died from bloat last year) HATED other male dogs with a passion. My friend Scott's family found an old stray Lab/hound X they nicknamed Barney (Fred Flinstone and Barney Rubble :D ) lurking around their yard for a few days (he kept jumping in and out of their yard with 6ft high fences!) and were going to keep him, but Fred was just too jealous and aggressive and would attack Barney at any given moment.

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[quote name='Black GSD']I'm afraid I have to agree with Carol and Hobbit. I have seen a LOT of neutered males that "act" like intact males. Even ones that were neutered young.[/quote]

Yep, that's been pretty much my experience too. Neutering doesn't guarantee anything except that the dog won't be albe to sire pups and won't get testicular cancer.

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[quote name='pets4ever']Hi - I'm back. His parents are working, his father is quite degreed in Schutzhund and the mother, although from working lines, has essentially no "drive" and is into obedience. Of course they have been screened and are healthy with good hips etc. This is a reputable breeder and she has good dogs. :[/quote]

Hi,
I was just wondering if you'd be willing to post the breeder's kennel name and the names of the sire/dam. I quite understand if you'd rather not....I was just wondering if I know of them.

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Hi,

I'm not sure I want to do that just yet, if you don't mind. Off subject, what are all those degrees after your dog's names? With the exception of the CD, are they all agility titles? I didn't know there were so many titles out there! Are you going to go after more obedience degrees also? How long have you been showing them?

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