For Doberman Owners

[Nancy B]

[quote name='pets4ever']Hi,

I'm not sure I want to do that just yet, if you don't mind. Off subject, what are all those degrees after your dog's names? With the exception of the CD, are they all agility titles? I didn't know there were so many titles out there! Are you going to go after more obedience degrees also? How long have you been showing them?[/quote]

The AX and AXJ are AKC agility excellent titles, standard and jumpers. The OA and OAJ are NADAC open agility titles, standard and jumpers. The NAJ is NADAC novice agility gamblers. (We don't do NADAC anymore, tends to ruin a large strided dog for AKC and USDAA.) The AD is USDAA agility dog. WAC (Working Apptitude Certification) is the Dobe specific temperament test given by the Doberman Pinscher Club of America. BHIC is the basic herding instinct test. TDIA is awarded by Therapy Dogs International to dogs who have submitted the paperwork for 50 or more therapy dog visits. Whit has more titles that I haven't listed here....most of them are agility titles. I think I'll probably drop her NADAC titles soon too since she should complete her AKC agility masters titles this spring.

Whitney was trained for the open level of obedience when I suspended her obedience trialing. Time was the factor....Mason arrived, I was teaching more agility classes and needed to devote more time to both Mason and agility. Whitney is six. She was a bit over three when she was entered in her first trial. I don't know how much longer she'll be doing agility. As long as she's having fun and is physically fit, I'll let her continue. I figure that when I do have to pull her from agility I may go back to obedience with her. I dunno, I really don't get much of a kick from obedience so I'm not sure.

Mason has his AKC novice agility titles, standard and jumpers. He runs excellent level courses in training but, I'm keeping him in novice agility at trials for the time being. He needs to mature a bit mentally still and I don't want to push him. I didn't start trialing Mason until he was two and he'd had his OFA x-rays. Mason's trained for AKC novice obedience competition but, I don't see him going in the ring anytime soon. He's always showing in conformation at the time the obedience is going on. Oh yeah, although I have a handler to show Mason I've done all of his conformation training myself. :)

I have been training both Mason and Whitney in tracking. It's tough going...both finding the time and finding new places to lay tracks.

[bk_blue]

I think doing all that obedience/agility/therapy etc. work with dogs is amazing, shows how smart the dogs and the owners are. :D

[Nancy B]

[quote name='bk_blue']I think doing all that obedience/agility/therapy etc. work with dogs is amazing, shows how smart the dogs and the owners are. :D[/quote]

I so it simply because it's fun to do with the dogs! I keep the dogs in agility classes year round but we really don't do that many trials....I dunno, maybe about eight a year. My dogs really love learing something new or working on something they know. We do a mini-obedience training session every night just before bed and they race me upstairs to "assume the waiting position". :D

I think that training a dog to do anything helps promote a closer bond between dog and trainer. I also think a tired dog is a good dog and while Whit is a perfect girl Mason is still so much of a pup mentally that I do try to wear him out on a regular basis. Sometimes, if the weather is bad or I can't get to the training building I'll just trot Mason on the Jog-a-dog treadmill to take some of the starch out of him. He's very funny, loves the treadmill! :)

[bk_blue]

Love the doggy treadmill, I should get one for bk (and myself... hmm new year's resolution: get fit again).

Training dogs takes soooo much patience. It can be very frustrating to see my dog, who is too smart for his own good, be stuck in the dummy class at obedience. He can do everything he's been taught blindfolded gagged and standing on his head. It's just he doesn't do it [i]all the time[/i]. arrrgh. By Easter I want to get him to class 2... one step at a time... it's also hard now because I don't live with him anymore, so it's difficult to fit in time to practise everything.

How long did it take you to train your dogs?

[Guest Anonymous]

The bottom line is this, if you are really interested in getting the dog Get him, just know that your are really going to have your hands full keping things in-line and training what is and isnt okay in YOUR house, any bad habits that the dog already has are going to be extra hard to break, and any aggressions are extra hard to unteach. We are not sying that it cant be done, but it WILL be HARD. Now if you know you have all the extra time and energy to train and watch and plan then good luck , I hope it works out for you, but this is definately not something that you want to get into and then find out later that its not going to work.

[Nancy B]

[quote name='bk_blue']Love the doggy treadmill, I should get one for bk (and myself... hmm new year's resolution: get fit again).

Training dogs takes soooo much patience. It can be very frustrating to see my dog, who is too smart for his own good, be stuck in the dummy class at obedience. He can do everything he's been taught blindfolded gagged and standing on his head. It's just he doesn't do it [i]all the time[/i]. arrrgh. By Easter I want to get him to class 2... one step at a time... it's also hard now because I don't live with him anymore, so it's difficult to fit in time to practise everything.

How long did it take you to train your dogs?[/quote]

Hey, I had them put a larger motor in the doggy treadmill so that I can use it too! :D

I'm not quite sure what you're asking about training. Dobes are highly trainable and I can generally teach either dog a new behavior in a few hours. (A behavior is something like sit, down, bow, wave, etc.) Making that behavior absolutely reliable under all circumstances is a different story, takes much more practice. Complex behaviors I usually break down and teach in sections. Whitney is more mature mentally so, she'll be reliable on a new behavior faster than Mason. Both of my dogs are very clicker savy and, whenever I get a clicker out, will turn themselves inside out trying to be the first dog to get to work.

[Nancy B]

Oh yeah. I don't traing the dogs for hours at a stretch. I train in short session BUT, if I'm training a new behavior I may do a very short (few minutes) session every hour of the day! If I'm not pushed for time to teach the behavior I'd probably do 6 or 8 sessions a day. Heck, both the kids get a practice "out of sight sit or down stay" every night when I brush my teeth! :D

[bk_blue]

Thanks Nancy, I guess I was talking about how I can get my dog to be 100% reliable with commands in a normal, authoriative voice. I wish I had time to train him that many times a day! I agree, short sessions are much better than one long session, but I don't live with him anymore so I'm not able to zip over to my dad's eight times a day to do training, unfortunately!

When I asked you about how long it took you to train your dogs, I was referring to weeks, months... etc. and yeah, how long it takes for them to obey it EVERY time you say it and not when they feel like it.

K told me that clickers were very good. Can you explain exactly what one is and what it does ie. how does it get the dog to pay attention...?

[Nancy B]

[quote name='bk_blue']Thanks Nancy, I guess I was talking about how I can get my dog to be 100% reliable with commands in a normal, authoriative voice. I wish I had time to train him that many times a day! I agree, short sessions are much better than one long session, but I don't live with him anymore so I'm not able to zip over to my dad's eight times a day to do training, unfortunately!

When I asked you about how long it took you to train your dogs, I was referring to weeks, months... etc. and yeah, how long it takes for them to obey it EVERY time you say it and not when they feel like it.

K told me that clickers were very good. Can you explain exactly what one is and what it does ie. how does it get the dog to pay attention...?[/quote]

Wow, that's a heck of a question with no easy answer. It is more difficult to train a dog that doesn't live with you. I train Mason's sire in agility and I only get him once a week. I did train Gent with longer sessions. I would generally keep him for an hour and a half. I didn't work him continuously for the hour and a half. We took breaks, played, had walks, let him socialize with other dogs and people and just generally be a dog...and then worked in more training sessions during that hour and a half.

I can't really give you a firm answer on "how long" because there are so many variables. The dogs natural trainability is a big one. (Note that I didn't say intelligence...a dog can be very intelligent but choose to be very difficult to train!) Frequency of training sessions is certainly a big factor. I think that how you train is also a big one. If the dog really enjoys the training sessions, they'll naturally participate more fully in their own training and should advance more quickly. The dog's age is a factor, puppies are more easily distracted and I think that you should let them be a pup for quite a while. (Yes, a pup with some manners but, I wouldn't want a "highly trained obedience robot pup"! With a Dobe that would likely crush the drive right out out of them.)

One other huge factor is the experience level of the person doing the training. Whitney was my first agility dog and when I got her I knew absolutely nothing about agility. We took classes for over a year before I entered her in her first trial. Gent, my Mason's sire and the dog I only get once a week for training, is the second dog I trained in agility. In comparison to Whitney, Gent was ready to trial in about three months. This had nothing to do with Gent being more trainable than Whitney but every thing to do with me knowing more about what I was doing. Mason, the third dog I trained in agility, was both slower and faster than Gent. I held Mason back intentionally because, unlike Whitney and Gent, he went into trainning as a pup. Some things in agility can have a detrimental impact on a pup if they haven't finished growing (weaves, jumps, full height A-frame). We really worked more control and obedience for several months. Once Mason was physically mature enough to do jumps and weaves it was probably only a couple of months to get him competition ready.

That's about the best I can do to explain "how long" and I know it doesn't really answer your question. Sorry! :-?

As far as the clicker goes, it's simply a handy training tool. Clicker trainers teach through positive reinforcement. (That's the way places like Sea World train their aquatic charges.) The "click" is simply a behavior marker. You start by "loading the clicker". IOW, you simply click and give the dog a treat every time you click. In a pretty short time period, your dog understands that whenever he hears a click, he'll get a treat. That's when you can really start clicker training. That's also why the dogs are generally easier to train. You drag out a clicker and they know treats won't be far behind....generally they're wild to work and earn those treats! (It is easiest to clicker train a food motivated dog but, you can also use a toy in place of the treats.)

Using "sit" as an example. Keep a clicker in your hand and treats nearby. Whenever your dog decides to sit, simply click and then give a treat. (Timing is VERY important. You MUST click at the instant the dog is doing the desired behavior!) You don't say "sit" for a long time, you just watch your dog and when it sits, click/treat. Pretty soon you're gonna have a dog that is getting downright obnoxious about offering "sits". They want that click and treat and they'll race around to you and plunk themselves into a sit to try to get a click and treat. Shortly after reaching that stage, you can start saying "sit". The command always comes after the behavior is learned.

Some folks train in a similar manner but use a word instead of the click. Nothing wrong with that but personally, I don't think it's quite as good. Your voice isn't always the same even if you use the same word....there can be inflections depending on how you're feeling, the level of physical activity you're doing, all kinds of stuff. How is a dog to know which inflection is the best one? A click is always the same, makes it easier for the dog.

There are lots of clicker training websites. I think I've listed a few on my kid's obedience page. There are also a lot of very good clicker training books. I'm a self taught clicker trainer and Whitney was trained for competition obedience from a book. Since that time I have been to many clicker seminars but, the books really did give me a firm grounding.

[bk_blue]

It kind of does answer my questions! I know BK is very smart but very hard to train, plus the fact we didn't start doing any formal obedience till last year (he will be 8 in July :oops: ) makes it even harder. And at my obedience club you have to have passed class 4 ie. be able to control your dog off-lead before you can start doing the agility course. I will look up some more info in clickers, and see if I can get my hands on one if it all looks good.
:)