Guest Anonymous Posted October 1, 2002 Share Posted October 1, 2002 [quote name='Hmmmm']Most well bred APBTs will attack a dog regardless of where he is at (his territory or someone elses). Keeping the pit in a fence is a responsible way of confinement. The owner of the GSD is totaly to blame here. She allowed her dog to stick his nose somewhere it did not belong. The APBT was doing what comes naturally. Which is protecting his territory and being dog aggressive. It completely ticks me off when I am walking one of my pits and someone allows their dog to come at us. I have to pick my dog up and continually try to kick the other dogs away. BUT if something happens that one of my dogs gets ahold of the other dog it is automatically my fault because I have APBTs. Its crap that we, APBT owners, unfortunately have to take because of our choice in breeds (which is the best choice :D !!!)[/quote] *Please define wellbred! *Sorry but maybe YOUR pits are dog agressive but the ones I have seen are NOT. They have played with my dogs and several others. They have been mounted by males. Rolled on the ground, scratched, bit, and they have done the same.. Never have they EVER shown one ounce of agression back! * Kick at someone elses dog..Sounds as if you might be the one who gets dog bit at some point in time! *Yes it will be your fault but not because you have APBT's because you have 32 of them and 3 litters on the way!! *It is the best choice for those who better the breed and chose to do it by socialization, introducing good things. Not those who have to pick up their dog and kick at others dogs!![/b] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted October 1, 2002 Share Posted October 1, 2002 [quote name='Hmmmm']I did say most, not all. In general they usually dont bother small dogs and puppies. MOST will be dog aggressive without having to be provoked. I also said "well bred" which means gamebred (cause a pit not gamebred is just another cur).[b] Please read what a cur is![/b] Regardless of socialization a pit cant be trusted around other dogs. Even if they grew up together. Dogs argue just like people do and if you have a pit and a cur and they are arguing you will come home to a dead cur. We have a bitch that can run around the yard and not touch any of the other dogs but we know there is a chance she might. Sasha girl, a couple of the dogs will allow some dogs to run at them but the others wont. I pick my dogs up so the other person, who is allowing their dog to run at an APBT, doesnt go home with a dead dog. [b] How nice of you! :-?[/b] Are you going to let your dog run lose at a pit? And if he does do you want the pit owner to just stand there and let his dog kill yours?[b] No I hope he doesn't fight his Pits and is a responsible person and trains and socializes his dogs! [/b]I am protecting my dog from getting taken because of someone elses irresponsibility as well as protecting the other dog.[b]How do you see that as protecting someone elses dog when you cannot even walk yours together? How does that make someone irresponsible? Because your dog will attack another dog? They cannot walk down the road when you do? [/b] We can usually walk a bitch and a male at the same time side by side but not two males or two bitches.[b]Apparently you are not the Alpha in your pack or it would not matter who was walking with whom![/b] We have 32 dogs at the moment and are expecting 3 litters to be hitting the ground soon. [b] Love those breeding phrases!! Your a pro![/b] Why own a dog you cant socialize with other dogs? Well, the only dogs mine are around are the other pits on the yard. They dont need to get along with other dogs.[b]From the previous comments they do not get along with the ones in the yard... You cannot walk them together..[/b] The one dog I take everywhere with me (my housedog) can be around dogs he is familiar with but he is still not trusted around them and he cant be around strange dogs (unless little ones or pups.) I only have experience, several years I might add, with gamebred full-blooded APBTs. Dont deal with ANY curs.[b]I posted the definition of CUR for you so you would know exactly what a CUR is!![/b] Maybe that is why I feel they cant be trusted around dogs. I have seen way to many accidents with pits that were thought to get along okay with other dogs.[b] A good breeder, who knows their dogs doesn't have accidents... Someone who is having puppies "hitting the ground soon" and "can't walk but a male and female together" does... [/b] [/quote][/quote] * Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bk_blue Posted October 1, 2002 Share Posted October 1, 2002 I don't think I have anything to add- all of it has been said! :D You need to be able to trust your dog with other dogs and its temperament is 99% [i]your[/i] responsibility. All dogs need to be able to get along with other dogs if you have any responsible bone in your body... what if one of your dogs gets out? If it goes and tears the crap out of another dog while stray then it gets destroyed and you lose your pet. If you take it for a walk and it attacks another dog without provocation because it hasn't been socialised adequately, same deal. And what if your dogs turn on each other in your own yard, if you can't even walk them together then what does that say about your breeding tactics??? You lose every way you look at it and you have nobody to blame but yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted October 1, 2002 Share Posted October 1, 2002 Okay I have calmed now... What I worry about is not so much the other dogs (i do worry about them though) but the 6 yr old or the 9 yr old walking down the street.... Okay if you walk 2 dogs at a time, you pick up one where is the other??? Exactly.... If YOU, the breeder cannot trust your dogs, how can you sell them? How can you walk them down a road? How can you sell them to a family? Have you ever seen the FEAR in a child eyes once they have been dog bit?? Have you seen the scars on a child? I am not saying that only Pits bite but I am sure you are not helping the cause... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deepseasnake Posted October 1, 2002 Share Posted October 1, 2002 if any of you guys from other boards who know of this guy could get me his email that would be great :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usmcbyrd Posted October 1, 2002 Share Posted October 1, 2002 you stupid idiot. what the hell are you thinking? i agree deep, you actually pi$$ed me off too. if you cant be smart enough to figure out that you are not breeding a dog that is safe around other dogs and kids then you shouldnt be a breeder at all. then again you are probably the type of breeder that doesnt care who buys the dog as long as you get the money. and the only experience you have with breeding is inbreeding, and im not talking about the dog. if you have any ba!!s, and im sure you dont, you will respond and correct yourself. have fun in the back hills. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobbit Posted October 1, 2002 Share Posted October 1, 2002 It is unfortunate that with the mentality of people as this, the American Pit Bull Terrier will continue to be persecuted. It's one step up and three steps back. Evenually, there will be a total split in the breed (like with the working and show Kelpie). Even though they are Pit Bulls, they will be a divided breed --- Family Pit Bulls and Fighting Pit Bulls, OR Non-game and Game-bred Pit Bulls. It has already began to happen. It started out as a "man-made" breed and can end up as a better, "man-made" breed. This sort of practice (dog fighting) has survived for centuries, from generation to generation. Don't think that you can change it all at once, or even at all. As much as you know I am on your side of non-fighting dogs, genetics can not be changed overnight. It will take years of selective breeding to breed an undesirable behaviour out of a breed. Crossing with the Boxer or other breed and then crossing back to a non-game Pit Bull may be the saviour of the American Pit Bull Terrier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted October 1, 2002 Share Posted October 1, 2002 I have to agree Hobbit... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordonmom Posted October 1, 2002 Share Posted October 1, 2002 Alrighty then Hmmmmm, are you excited by the response you got from this board? I have to be thinking that anyone with thirty-two adult dogs is getting his (or her) entertainment from tension between the masses. With thirty-two dogs, we know that you don't have time to give them any individual attention and training. You shouldn't even have time to be on this web-site. Do you have a real job, or is your job producing puppies? I would welcome a debate with you on canine behavior. Unfortunately, since we have to use words instead of brawn to convey our messages (I'm a wimp anyway, I own Setters) I wonder if you are up to the challenge. We can start out with the justification of owning thirty-two dogs, and how the characteristic traits displayed by your dogs are not the result of improper training and socialization but rather that of a specific breed trait. Hope to here your reply soon Hmmmm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsefeathers! Posted October 2, 2002 Share Posted October 2, 2002 I am surely sticking my neck on the chopping block, but here goes... I kinda sorta have to take exception that ANY aggressive, ill mannered, insert-negative-adjective here dog is a result of poor socialization and lack of training. *Gulp* here goes... My own beloved Penny who, by all accounts, is a mutt (whew) has a screw loose. She is 3/4 Pit Bull and 1/4 Boxer (if I have that right... anyhoo, the mother was straight down the middle half Bully/Boxer and the father all Pit... it was a "carefully planned" breeding <said with dripping sarcasm>). I have had Penny since she was 5 weeks old since the old, overbred, dilapidated mother simply couldn't take care of that litter any more. She excels in obedience, has been in every social environment, was raised in a multiple pet household and is an all around great dog. Until she "clicks." She has become increasingly volatile in the last couple of years, biting one child who was taunting her (ok, I really think he deserved it which made me want to justify that incident, but it's really not acceptable behavior) and attacking my other dogs with increasing fury. It's not lack of training and socialization and she has no problem with obedience. According to one behaviorist we contacted and our vet, it was believed that Penny possibly had rage syndrome as there was nothing else to explain her behavior (some other things have come up since then that we are exploring and hoping for the best with). It's sudden and VERY unpredictable. She is extremely dog aggressive to other large, strange dogs. I have no doubt that she would kill another large dog, or die trying to, if she were able to get to it. Penny is now on medication which does seem to help control the frequency and ferocity of attacks. Of course, she is NEVER left unsupervised with the rest of the gang, or anywhere for that matter. She is, I believe, a product of poor breeding. It's what happens when people want a "tough" dog which is what the "breeder" was breeding for. Who cares about temperament as long as they're tough? Don't even get me started on the rubber band around the tail docking thing :x . The breeder, by the way, was my own sister. She couldn't sell these dogs as she had planned and ended up having to "get rid" of them. We took Penny. My sister and I do not speak to this day (she doesn't raise her children any better than she raises dogs... oh, and I also got a couple of kittens that had to be bottle fed from her overbred, old dilapidated mama cat... just to illustrate ethics). Anyhoo, I just keep seeing where people are saying that ANY dog that is aggressive is automatically a product of poor training and lack of socialization and it kind of bugs me. I mean, I don't think I've raised Penny irresponsibly and have no problem with her being obedient. She does fine on a leash and in public and I can take her anywhere. She just has a screw loose which makes her (I reckon) a product of poor breeding. I know that gal will kill another dog if she gets a chance. Ain't no training that out of her.:( This is not to say I think she is from a bad breed, but rather a result of bad breeding. I don't think Pits are bad dogs with people, but I do tend to think I wouldn't want to have another one of questionable temperament in my multiple dog household and let's face it... not too many people are breeding them with temperament in mind unless it's for fighting. Ok, vent over... back to the topic at hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bk_blue Posted October 2, 2002 Share Posted October 2, 2002 I do agree with you Horsefeathers- bad breeding (especially for fighting- if that's all the dog knows and gets praised for being aggressive to other dogs, then that's not its fault, but the fault of the breeders/owners :evil: ) certainly does not help with temperament and you can't blame everything on poor socialisation. But if you have a well-bred dog and it's not socialised properly then it is also going to have some problems. I'm sorry to hear that about your dog Penny... and you are such a good person to take in animals born from your sister's irrepsonsiblity! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gooeydog Posted October 2, 2002 Share Posted October 2, 2002 [quote]I also said "well bred" which means gamebred (cause a pit not gamebred is just another cur).[/quote] Maybe in your opinion gamebred means well bred, but in all honesty, a lot of gamebred dogs aren't the healthiest/best tempermented dogs, so I wouldn't exactly consider them the only well bred dogs. For all your experience, you seem to be forgetting that very few APBTs are truely game, and all that the term "gamebred" means is that they are from breeding of game dogs. There's not really any rules as to what makes a gamebred dog, everyone just sorta makes them up as they go along, especially BYBs and "wannabe dogmen" (see Hmmmm... :lol: ). Many gamebred dogs are curs, many dogs from untested lines show some degree of gameness... it really makes no difference. [quote]We have 32 dogs at the moment and are expecting 3 litters to be hitting the ground soon. [/quote] That's pretty sad that you have to produce that many pups to get a few decent ones out of the group... maybe you should invest in some "better bred" dogs :lol: So where are the 20-ish pups from the next month going (oops, wait, that's 20-ish before you cull out all the curs, right?)? Since the dogs never leave the dogyard, I'm sure they're real well adjusted and stable :o With all those pups, you must just be handing them out to whoever comes along, what a great thing you're doing for the breed. And here I was wondering why people hate pit bulls so much :roll: [quote]I only have experience, several years I might add, with gamebred full-blooded APBTs. Dont deal with ANY curs.[/quote] I think you're in denial... Like I said before, there are plenty of curs out there that are "full blooded" (actually the correct term is purebred), gamebred APBTs. I bet you deal with curs every day :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bensam Posted October 2, 2002 Share Posted October 2, 2002 Horsefeathers I can understand your problem. One of my girls has a weird streak as well. She has always been extremely territorial, from a baby puppy she would not let anyone in the back yard, despite all my efforts and would like to attack any dog bigger than herself (she is all of 11inches at the shoulder!). As a pup she was socialised fully, she is a top show animal of her breed, and while I am the boss, she will try to take liberties when I am not around. She will be sitting on the couch and for no reason will suddenly fly at one of the other dogs. Thankfully they all just ignore her. Her breeder and I have discussed her many times, and on checking with 3 other owners of pups from that litter have discovered they all have different traits not usual to the breed. One will be fine then all of a sudden will decided that he will not come near his owner, sometimes for as much as 24 hours. Another will have what the owner classes as 'panic attacks' where he will hide under beds, couchs, etc. The only thing the breeder (and this is a careful, dedicated breeder) can come up with is that the mother had a toxic infection when the pups were born and it was a fight to save mother and pups. Perhaps this may have affected the brains of these pups as another litter from the same bitch have never had anything like this. I have the only bitch in the litter and have never bred her, for while I am inclined to think the behaviour is not hereditory but medical, I would not chance it and perhaps she would not be a good mother anyway. I am sure that not all different behaviour can always be put down to the owners fault, there must also be circumstances that we are still in the dark about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordonmom Posted October 2, 2002 Share Posted October 2, 2002 I would have to agree that socialization and training are not always the answer to behavior problems in dogs. Since dogs are another species, NO human can say why a particular dog is behaving in the manner they are. However, I believe that it is the root of most dog troubles. This is assuming there have been no other variables added. Was the pup kept with his mother for the full 8 weeks before separation? Was the damn given adequate nutrition during gestation? Was the pup adequately ventilated after delivery? Was the pup kept warm? Was the pup dropped on his head? Does the dog have a genetic problem that is making him ornary? Was the pup carried around by a child in a poor manner? Was the pup cued at a young age that the benefit of this behavior was worth the punishment? Is the owner afraid of his dog? Is the owner afraid of punishing the dog in a harsh manner? (I do not condone this except in the most extreme cases). Is the owner treating the dog like a dog or a little human? Is the owner mis reading the dogs cues? Has the owner taught the dog not to give cues? (No growling, my personal pet-peeve). If you believe that bad breeding produces bad dogs in dogs, then you also have to believe that bad breeding in people produces bad people. I don't know. But it is hard to tell if criminals are the result of their genetic make-up or the enviornment in which they were raised. There is also the personality question that has to be asked. Some dogs, like people, are easy-going. Some are difficult to deal with. I have to believe that how that personality trait is shaped, is a lot how the dog or person will act. And if it is the result of bad breeding, then pit-bull owners just better agree with the fact that there are TONS of bad pit-bull breeders out there, and that the media has the right to condemn a dog on generalizations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usmcbyrd Posted October 2, 2002 Share Posted October 2, 2002 well said. i agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsefeathers! Posted October 3, 2002 Share Posted October 3, 2002 [quote name='Gordonmom'] If you believe that bad breeding produces bad dogs in dogs, then you also have to believe that bad breeding in people produces bad people. I don't know. But it is hard to tell if criminals are the result of their genetic make-up or the enviornment in which they were raised. There is also the personality question that has to be asked. Some dogs, like people, are easy-going. Some are difficult to deal with. I have to believe that how that personality trait is shaped, is a lot how the dog or person will act. And if it is the result of bad breeding, then pit-bull owners just better agree with the fact that there are TONS of bad pit-bull breeders out there, and that the media has the right to condemn a dog on generalizations.[/quote] Oh, now this might be opening a whole 'nuther can of worms, but I do believe that *ahem* people can be born "bad." Of course, we are talking exceptions here and not generalizations, but you better believe that I think there are puhlenty of folks who should never breed. I do believe that [b][u]generally[/u][/b] personality traits (whether dogs or people) are influenced by things such as environment, socialization and such. However, I stand firm in my belief that it certainly [b][u]can[/b][/u] be influenced by genetics. Too bad there isn't any test. Why would it seem so radical to think that behavior can not be influenced by physical and chemical factors? Think about it... how many women do you know who are otherwise nice people who become insane at "that time of the month?" A change in mood and personality is brought about by physical and chemical changes in a lot of women during this time, so is it not feasible that some people/dogs are just plain hardwired all wrong altogether creating "monsters?" Anyhoo, I really have some strong thoughts on this, so I'm just scratching the surface, but I effectively wanted to say that, yeah, I believe some people are just plain born bad, though that doesn't mean they can't overcome odds that are stacked against them if they are aware of it (such as my choice to totally abstain from any form of alcohol, or mind altering drugs, even OTC, because of the history of addiction amongst EVERY member of my immediate and distant family... reckon there could be a genetic link? Not worth it to me to experiment). However, dogs don't have the ability to reason the way we do, so if one has a "hardwiring" problem, well, you know... I do agree that the general public should recognize that there are plenty of bad pit bull breeders out there, but not that the media has the right to condemn the dog on generalizations. What they need to be condemning is irresponsible ownership and breeding, but then that doesn't sell papers. Anything more than that is supermarket tabloid dreck and who lends that any credibility, anyway? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsefeathers! Posted October 3, 2002 Share Posted October 3, 2002 And all that said, I never did hit on the fact that we've discovered some physical problems with my knucklehead dog (said with affection) that have caused her to become so unstable (at least we think so). :-? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bk_blue Posted October 3, 2002 Share Posted October 3, 2002 [quote name='Horsefeathers!'] I believe some people are just plain born bad, though that doesn't mean they can't overcome odds that are stacked against them if they are aware of it (such as my choice to totally abstain from any form of alcohol, or mind altering drugs, even OTC, because of the history of addiction amongst EVERY member of my immediate and distant family... reckon there could be a genetic link? Not worth it to me to experiment). However, dogs don't have the ability to reason the way we do, so if one has a "hardwiring" problem, well, you know...[/quote] I agree to an extent that some people are just born bad. But we as people can refuse to succumb to family addictions- eg. children of alcoholics will either become alcoholics themselves or never touch a drink in their lives children of smokers also can go from extreme to extreme (these are from personal experience- I can't speak for everyone). It can depend on the socio-economic background and how or where a person is brought up or educated- and sometimes it makes no difference at all- so maybe genes do play a part if there are no other obvious reasons. :-? Dogs can't make that sort of choice, most of what they do is linked to how we bring them up. But I do believe that some of them may be genetically "bad". Say you have 5 pups from the same parents, all brought up the same way by yourself, and one is just "bad" despite the same treatment given to him as the others, who are model pets- what causes it if a good upbringing is undertaken and the pup is not suffering from any physical problems? Is that a feasible scenario or an impossible one? Has anyone ever experienced anything similar? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobbit Posted October 5, 2002 Share Posted October 5, 2002 [color=red][b]EVERYTHING is dictated by genetics.....EVERYTHING. The environment pulls the trigger. [/b][/color] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordonmom Posted October 5, 2002 Share Posted October 5, 2002 For goodness sake I just came back from cyber Hell. Thank-you K for helping. I cannot agree with the statement that everything is dictated by genetics. While this may be true when dealing with single celled organisms, when you get to the more complex forms of life, basically this statement is true, but basically this is untrue. Every living thing starts out as a single cell. As this cell divides, certain cell regulators start kicking in that start defining cells as to what they will be. Example: Your liver cell DNA make up is the same as your fingernail cell make up, but your cell regulators have turned off everything but "liver" or "fingernail" so that only that part of the cell is expressed. Now, if as that cell is dividing, proper nutrition is not recieved or the cell is irradiated or not enough oxygen is recieved, those regulator cells can get "mixed up" and something goes wrong. So you can have great genes, but still produce something that is a little "off" if something happened to your brain cell regulators. Another thing is the mother being exposed to viruses or chemicals that can cross the placental membrane to effect those regulators. Now add to that, oxygen deprivation at birth (Cerebral Paulsy) or being dropped or anything else that can damage the brain or fragile growing organs, and you add another variable. Or something like a brain tumor, that could be not growing just sitting there "Tweeking" things. Then add to that poor guidance and training and you can create a monster or who knows what. Starting out with great genetics is a plus, but genetics in the terms of putting two great dogs together is far more complicated. not to say that it is impossible to breed wacked out dogs or people. But it is far from simply saying that genetics dictates everything.[/quote] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobbit Posted October 6, 2002 Share Posted October 6, 2002 Gordonmom: first, this is not a sarcastic or ugly question, but: do you know anything about genetics? I would appear that you do or at least know the basics of genetics. Yes, I DO know genetics. And EVERYTHING --- still my quote --- is dictated by genetics. This does not mean that during development, the gene is not mutated, it is not affected by a teratogen, is not affected by gene drift. But, it is STILL all affected in one way or another by the genetic makeup of that living thing (person or animal). After birth -- yes the environment (physical and mental) can affect the way a person or animal looks at the world, acts, behaves, treats others, etc.... Still, their genetics....dictates everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordonmom Posted October 6, 2002 Share Posted October 6, 2002 I have a double Major in Microbiology and Biochemistry, and have worked as both an industrial microbiologist and clinical microbiologist for 25 years. But no, I am not a genetisist. Maybe new things have happened that I am not aware of just recently. I have read studies which have compared maternal twins that were separated at birth. I also keep up with other studies that compare nature with nurture. I am also fascinated with socio-pathic individuals, and what can cause them to be this way. Also, when looking at prison inmates that contain the extra X chromosome, even though both of their parents are normal is fascinating stuff. How did that extra X get there? But this is just a hobby, and I explore this stuff just for fun. So the only real genetics stuff I learned while getting that biochemistry degree. Affected receptors are not a mutation, as they cannot be passed on to their progeny. If to believe that genetics controls everything, that is fine. However, I do not. :D I have learned through the years that there are no absolutes in anything. :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobbit Posted October 7, 2002 Share Posted October 7, 2002 [quote name='Gordonmom']I have a double Major in Microbiology and Biochemistry, and have worked as both an industrial microbiologist and clinical microbiologist for 25 years. But no, I am not a genetisist. Maybe new things have happened that I am not aware of just recently. I have read studies which have compared maternal twins that were separated at birth. I also keep up with other studies that compare nature with nurture. I am also fascinated with socio-pathic individuals, and what can cause them to be this way. Also, when looking at prison inmates that contain the extra X chromosome, even though both of their parents are normal is fascinating stuff. How did that extra X get there? But this is just a hobby, and I explore this stuff just for fun. So the only real genetics stuff I learned while getting that biochemistry degree. Affected receptors are not a mutation, as they cannot be passed on to their progeny. If to believe that genetics controls everything, that is fine. However, I do not. :D I have learned through the years that there are no absolutes in anything. :lol:[/quote] The prison inmates that have the extra "X" in their genetic make-up are normally larger in stature and have lower IQ's. So, you are saying the way they act is not genetic? You think that an animal acts a certain way because "it just does"? I do not, because genes control the being. Everything one way or another is related to the genetic makeup. Maybe the animal is genetically predisposed for a certain behaviour. Since there are a vast number of gene combinations, it is possible the parents show no signs of aggression, but the puppy does (aggression coming from a gene combination). I was not attacking your intelligence, just trying to understand the reasoning behind your thoughts. Being heavy on the genetics side of my education (College), I have a different opinion ----- genetics make the being. Where genetics is concerned, there is no absolutes (but it still boils down to the genes). I respect your opinion, but I have a different one. Thank you for your response. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted October 7, 2002 Share Posted October 7, 2002 Question::: Do you believe you could take two even tempered dogs non-agressive (tested to the extreme)... but by nature are suppose to be agressive... And breed the agression out of the breed "without" outcrossing to another breed? My question is would this "mean" gene at some point be "lost" or bred out of the breed itself? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordonmom Posted October 7, 2002 Share Posted October 7, 2002 Someday I will add "Computer literate" to my credentials, but until that time, I will just not use that little quote box, and plug along. I do believe in genetics. :lol: I do not agree with the term EVERYTHING. So if you have two even tempered dogs, whose parents were even tempered, whose parents were even tempered, the pups will more than likely be even tempered. However, if you feed the mother rat poison (this is an extreme example), those puppies might be born a little "off". The temperment of those puppies, who otherwise by their genetic would have been fine, can now be a little "off". Technically this has nothing to do with the puppies genetic make up. The puppies genetic makeup was the half helix DNA it got from it's mother, and the half helix it got from it's father. From zygote on, it is an outside factor that is determining the structure of the being, not it's genetic make-up. This whole conversation is simpley a mattter of splitting hairs. Yes, your genes, whether they have been blasted or not determine what you are. But I do not believe that what you get from your mother and what you get from your father (ie your genetic make-up) is absolute. There can be other variables introduced . Jacsmom, if you have two even tempered dogs, you do not have a aggressive gene to breed out. If you have two even tempered dogs that are aggressive because they have brain tumors, you still don't have an aggressive gene to breed out, but you might have a brain tumor gene to breed out. :D I think I am going to stick to my new found excitment of posting puppy pictures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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