Lucky Chaos

I'm not talking about the village dog, the true "purebred mutt" from whenever ago. I mean mutts like my border collie/retriever mix, who had purebred parents. If my dogs retriever dad had HD, and his mom had Collie Eye, isn't there a great chance that those traits will be passed to the offpsring? No different than if they were both purebred. Not many true mutts exist today, at least in the US and Canada. I bet 99% are from purebred parents at least in 3-4 generations. Maybe if you go to Africa, you'll find lots of purebred mutts. nd I;'m sure many of them have dieseases too, genetic and otherwise that they pass on. Linebreeding did not cause HD. Wolves can and do have it, but wild wolves arn't going to live long enough to pass down their traits, only the healthiest and strongest (the Alpha wolves) get to breed. Linebreeding also exists in the wild, Its been proven. If a daughter of the Alpha's kills or drives off her mother, she will breed with her father. Wolf packs usually consist of all related wolves, there's no way they could be totally scatterbred. Some wolves once they reach maturity do go seek new unrelated mates, most stay with the pack. Some of those end up Alpha, and probably end up mating with related wolves. But any born with genetic diseases simply do not survive. Even if we just left our purebred to mix and become the "purebred mutt" again, many have HD which WILL be passed on to future generations eventually. It won't correct itself either, the only way to get rid of it would be to screen parents for genetic disorders and not breed the ones that do.

[quote name='BuddysMom'][quote name='Lucky Chaos']getting rid of purebreds and good breeders will NOT stop the overpopulation problem, all it will do is leave us with dogs withotu a purpose riddled with health problems.[/quote] I respect and pretty much agree with what you said up until here LC. Mutts are not riddled with health problems to my knowledge, that would be poorly bred "purebreds". Out of curiosity what is a French Ring dog?[/quote] Sorry, I should have clarified. Mutts don't have health problems more than any other badly bred dog, but if there's no purebred, no health testing then wouldn't health problems like Hip Dysplasia incline? If no one bothered to test, no one would know. I adore mutts, any companion dog I get in the future WILL be a rescue mixed breed. French Ring (Ring Sport) is similar to Schutzhund, except without the tracking part. The jumps in french ring are also usually laregr and more challenging, which is why you see smaller dogs like Belgian Malinois in the sport rather than larger dogs like GSD's and rotties. The emphasis in FR is more put on getting the job done, unlike Schh which is more strict on how the job is done. Check out the North American Ring Association if you want to learn more. [url]http://www.ringsport.org/[/url] :D Also here for the exact excercises dogs have to learn to to earn its FRIII title. [url]http://members.aol.com/malndobe/frring.htm[/url]

[quote]I don't see working a breed that is bred for conformation and companionship a priority. [/quote] Sorry Kiwi, but why the hell not? Shouldnt you want to prove your dogs can do more than sit on the couch and look pretty in a show ring? No matter what they were bred for, I think dogs should have a working title before being bred. Agility or weight pull isn't technically working, but they PROVE something, unlike show titles (IMO). My take on it is if you want a companion dog, go to the shelter. If you want a dog that can WORK, has the genes, to work, then go to a responsible breeder. The only reason I'm going to a breeder for my next dog is because i want a strictly working dog. If someone would find me a French Ring dog in a rescue, that'd be great. But it does not happen that often. Maybe some of you have no need for purebreds, but others like me like to see the true working dog of old preserved. Breeds excisted long before kennel clubs. They may have just been types, but hundreds of years ago those collie type dogs herding sheep in scotland WERE border collies. The dogs used in large game hunting, bull baiting and so on were bulldogs, no doubt. They didn't have a standard, no need. But they were breeds. Showing dogs ruins the breed, working preserves it. Responsible breeders that preserve what their breed was truely bred for are not the problem. People who buy from them don't want just a companion, they want true working dogs, something that is scarely found in a shelter. Most of these breeders produce litters with a title on each and every puppy, for good reason. getting rid of purebreds and good breeders will NOT stop the overpopulation problem, all it will do is leave us with dogs withotu a purpose riddled with health problems.

[quote]irena as far as schutzhund or protection training i will say you can do it without the prong collar. i have a k9 cop trainee (malinois) who is doing quite well on his flat buckle collar![/quote] Wait till that dog decides he wants to do what he wants to do and "corrects" his handler with a bite. Malinois are EXTREMELY high drive (or the ones bred for working anyway) and trust me I would love to see one get a good title using pure positive. Haven't seen it yet, for a good reason. So if this dog can be trained with only positive, he's either low drive or one in a million. I know this breed pretty well.

There may be other ways to train, I'd like to see any one of you that are against them hold on to and keep Chaos calm when she's after another dog. On the flat collar she chokes herself until she's out of breath and almost wheezing, with the prong she barely leans into it, no need to choke. With the prong on I can have her sit quietly, without it she's a growling bitch. Not very nice to look at. Pinch collars, like any training tool can be abused. If used correctly they don't hurt. I put mine on my neck and gave myself a hard correction, it was a little uncomfortable, not unbearable by any means. The dog corrects itself when it lunges, if you do have to give a correction it can be given with a single finger, no need to yank on the collar for every correction. Most people don't even know how to use these collars, I see them all the time sitting on the base of a dogs neck when they should be up behind the ears. When its at the top of the neck the correction you have to give is much softer. Any training tool can be abused. One dog I knew developed an eye infection or something, because the gentle Leader she always worse was rubbing on her eye. If the dog hits the end of the leash hard enough with a GL its neck snaps to the side. Thats not what I want thanks. Choke collars can easily choke a dog if used improperly. Heck even flat collars can choke a dog! I was against prongs too, until I tried one. Slowly I will wean Chaos back onto the flat collar, but for now I'll stick with my "inhumane" collar thanks.

Why not give them bones in seperate rooms? I always do that, because I know if Riley steals Chaos' she'll fight back.

I like it! Its simple, but thats good since it makes people ficus on teh content of the site more than the background and colours and such. Nice layout.

Where are you getting this puppy from?

Thanks everyone. I just hope he's handsome enough to find himself a home. [quote]Will he meet the dogs to see if they get along?[/quote] Well he's been non reactive to other dogs so far, so thats good. He shouldn't have a problem with Lucky or Riley, but Chaos can be quite bitchy to dogs on her territory, so I might try introducing them on neutral territory, or wait until he's been here for a bit, and keep them seperated, and then see how things go. he's also the same size as Chaos (45-50 lbs) so thats a big plus, as usually the dogs she gets aggressive with a are large, or female.

Someone posted him and another dog on a different board. I just couldn't help it, they were both adorable, and so sad looking. I begged, and finally my parents said yes, though I'm paying for everything he'll need (which I don't mind of course!). Well one of the dogs got a home, so he's going all the way from London, Ontario to North Carolina. A wonderful and amazing bunch of people are transporting him. So that means the other dog will be coming to stay with me until I can find him a home. He's a gorgeous two year old brindle pit bull. He's still in the shelter for now, hopefully won't be for too long. :D Grendel [img]http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y160/GreddyGirl/Grendel%20and%20Tyson/HPIM1090.jpg[/img] [img]http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y160/GreddyGirl/Grendel%20and%20Tyson/HPIM1091.jpg[/img] [img]http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y160/GreddyGirl/Grendel%20and%20Tyson/HPIM1096.jpg[/img] [img]http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y160/GreddyGirl/Grendel%20and%20Tyson/HPIM1107.jpg[/img] [img]http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y160/GreddyGirl/Grendel%20and%20Tyson/HPIM1113.jpg[/img] [img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v505/spiralcide/HPIM1030.jpg[/img] Isn't he just gorgeous? I'm totally in love with him, and I haven't even met him yet! I can't wait. Sorry about the big pics.

I, personally don't have a lot of tolerance for human aggression in dogs, so you may not like my post. I would do three things, in this order. 1. Get him checked out by the vet. Any pain, discomfort, get his eyes checked (you never know), maybe even his hips. 2. If nothing is physically wrong with him, call a behaviourist. Not a trainer, but someone that specializes in human aggressive dogs. 3. If that doesn't work, I would have him put down. If he can't be corrected then he's too much of a danger. I'm sorry, but this isn't a one time snapping thing, you said he's showed signs of aggression all his life. If it comes to it euthanizing him would be the kindsest and safest thing to do. This has nothing to do with my post above, but I just had to comment. [quote]yes justin and i have worked things out. that's my personal bussiness though. [/quote] When you post things on a public message board they become just that, public. The question was not out of line in the least considering what you shared with us in the past. but that's neither here nor there.

By giving her attention negitive OR positive when she barks you're enforcing that barking WILL get you to come back and pay attention to her. Can you crate her in the car? I'm not a huge fan of dogs riding in cars uncrated, especially if they pose a danger like she does. What you must do is NOT pay any attention when she barks. If the barkings is going to get you in trouble I would try a no bark collar. But make her stay in a room and leave. She'll more than likely start barking. After she stops return, and you can greet her but don't make a big fuss out of it, she needs to know that your leaving isn't a big deal. Just a pat or two and go back to whatever you were doing. I would do this multiple times during the day, everytime she barks DO NOT talk to her. Don't tell her to be quiet, or say bad dog, all this does is reinforce that barking gets attention. Ignore her, and she'll learn that barking does not bring you back, being quiet does.

I won't let my dogs chase bears because they could get hurt, but they just think its fun. Sometimes what our dogs perceive as fun can be extremely dangerous. You're definately doing the right thing keeping her safe. Like the others said I wouldn't let them look after my dog anymore.

There's nothing I can say that hasn't been said, but I'm truely sorry. Know that you're doing the right thing by her, and you're giving her the chance to go in peace and she knows how much you love her. :cry:

LMAO, haha that was good :lol: Poor doggy.

Although rewarding him is good, DON'T do it after he snaps at you. That will be rewarding him for his bad behavior. It sounds like he is the boss of you, this needs to be corrected before he bites. I would never tolerate a dog snapping at me. In the training forum there is a post titled "nothing in life is free", read that and then DO IT, would be my advise. Courtnek also offered to help, she knows a lot about the subject.

My aunt and uncle purchased a lhasa apso puppy from a less than reputable breeder about a month ago. Today I find out that the little thing is "vicious". My aunt almost needed stitches a few times because it bit her. Now, they're going to take him to obedience school, and if that doesn't work put him down. Now, I don't paticularily agree with keeping an aggressive dog, but is it possible for a 3 month old puppy to be vicious?! I suppose it is, but these people arn't exactly the best trainers in the world. I told them about NILIF training, I can only hope they give it a try or I'm pretty sure the dog's fate is sealed. I'm honestly thinking of taking him myself for a couple weeks if they decide to put it down, and try everything I can do to train and rehome it. Is this a good idea? I haven't even met the dog, so I can't say for sure how "vicious" he is. I'm not a small dog fan myself, but I can't let an innocent dog (if he is, and its not genetic aggression) be killed through the fault of people's stupidity.

[quote name='newfiemom']I'll have a drink too...Cybil gives me a headache. :drinking:[/quote] Really? Because she makes me want to projectile vomit. Maybe instead of wasting her time on forums she could go and get one of those job thingies instead of living off her mill business.

[quote name='kittygirl109']If you are able to come home to tend to your puppy during say, lunch break, work is not a problem. However, if you live in an apartment, its not fair to get a large dog. You said you weren't intrested in small dogs. May I ask why not? I'd also like to add that I am a beginner dog owner myself, so don't take my advice TOO seriously.[/quote] I think the person said they didn't want a puppy... But why isn't it fair to get a large dog in an apartment? Most dogs sleep while their owners are away anyway, so there's not much of a difference as long as the dog gets lots of regular excercise. We lived in an apartment for about three years with Lucky. Yes, it was more of a hassle to go down the elevator 4 times a day but it can be done. And I don't think he was unhappy because he wasn't in a house, and he's a big dog. He did get about a two hour walk every day though. But if you're dedicated of course it can be done without a problem.

Thats such a sad ending. He may be better off but it shouldn't have happened. RIP Jager. :(

Yeah, I donate to the Toronto Humane Society and get christmas cards once a year. I also get shelter magazines every season. Although its nice, I would prefer if all my money went to the animals instead of making cards, but I see how the magazine can be helpful (they also have adoptable animals in it, and animal care related articles).

[quote]Not breeding responsibly is not a legitimate reason and is not against the law. [/quote] It should be. :roll:

[quote]Also you may want to consider a retired greyhound. They make lovely very sweet natured pets and contrary to speculation they don't require loads of space to run. They are actually very placid sedate dogs and adequate walks every day is good enough to suffice their energy requirements. [/quote] Thats what I was going to suggest. Greyhounds are great dogs, not very active inside and as long as they get a chance to run regularily are probably fine. Though since they should never be let off leash and you don't have a yard it might be difficult finding a fenced area to let it run free. A puppy is probably not for you, but an older dog thats housetrained and past the puppy destroying stage and could probably be left to roam the house might be fine. Believe it or not many large dogs are not all that active. I think the dog would be okay with a couple short walks every day on the days when you're not home, and on days off you can the dog can go for some good walks, maybe at a local park or nature trail or something. Good for you for adopting, and doing your research too. :D

Not another one! I honestly hope you're not another backyard breeder. We've already gotten our fair share for the summer. :-? People were asking questions they honestly wanted to know the answer too, whats the problem?

I use toilet plungers. They're cheap and stand up well inside, for a rainy day or in the winter. Buying them was quite embarassing though, imagine walking to the check out with 6 toilet plungers. :oops: