Guest Anonymous Posted December 12, 2003 Posted December 12, 2003 My GF and I are getting a puppy. We know the breed and have done tons of research for the past 6 months even putting together a manual for our own sake for bringing the puppy home and making it a part of the family! We searched and finally found a breeder who seems reputable, and was having a litter during the time we are looking to acquire. My question this....we have to put down a $500 deposit to reserve a puppy. The size of the litter is 7, 4 boys and 3 girls. We want a male fawn. There are 2 deposits in front of us. We have not put the deposit down yet. The prices are $800-$1200 for a pet quality and $1500-$2000 for show/breed quality. We are not planning on showing or breeding so pet quality is fine... The only way you lose the deposit is if there are no puppies that meet your request (gender/color/quality). If we give a $500 deposit...what is to keep the breeder from saying "ok, we have only 1 pet quality of the color and gender you want, so the price is the max in that category ($1200) take it or leave it. This fella seems very nice, but we seem very vulnerable if we give a non-refundable deposit. On the other hand, if we wait until he prices the pups (6 weeks) we run the risk of not getting one at all....what to do? Thanks in advance. Quote
kendalyn Posted December 12, 2003 Posted December 12, 2003 [quote]The only way you lose the deposit is if there are no puppies that meet your request (gender/color/quality)[/quote] OK, I'm confused. You put down the deposit, and it just happens that there are no puppies available that you want. You still lose your deposit? So if you said you wanted a boy, and the litter was all girls, you would just be out of luck? What if there are puppies that meet your request, but you just change your mind. Than do you get it back? I guess I don't understand the policy. Quote
Guest Anonymous Posted December 12, 2003 Posted December 12, 2003 hmm sounds kinda fishy to me, i would think if there was not a dog that met your requirments that you be entilted to your deposit back. i would really look in to this breeder, maybe even look for a DIFFERENT breeder.. what kind of dog are we talking abuot might i ask ? good luck Quote
KP Posted December 12, 2003 Posted December 12, 2003 Thats what I thought at first but I think I understand it now. I think what he means is its basically a deposit so that he can't weazel out of it at last minute and decide against getting the dog. Therefore if the dog he wants is available he has to buy it regardless of the price or lose the money. If I'm wrong....I'd say stay away from the breeder. Its not a fair deal... Quote
KP Posted December 12, 2003 Posted December 12, 2003 You know what now that I'm re-reading it again I'm going back to my first thoughts...I don't think that this guy is being fair about this deal from what you've explained. I wouldn't do it. It does seem like a scam...very fishy. Steer clear. Quote
Malamum Posted December 12, 2003 Posted December 12, 2003 The deposit should only be non-refundable if [b]you[/b] change your mind and at the last minute and decide you don't want a pup at all even though they do have what you specified what you wanted. If the breeder can't meet the requirements that you specified up front - (say you want a girl but the litter is all boys) then you should get your deposit back or be first in line for the next litter. If this not the case I would go elsewhere. I am also a little wary about the price range in both show and pet quality pups though. As far as I'm concerned there should be two prices, one for pet and one for show (my breeders prices were $1300 for show and $1000 for pet). For the pet quality pups - what determines their price? Why would one be $800 and another $1200? I totally understand the variance between pet and show but I'm really not sure about the variances within those categories. Quote
imported_Cassie Posted December 12, 2003 Posted December 12, 2003 I would ask the breeder for a list of previous customer's who have purchased puppies in the past. I would then proceed to call them and ask what they thought of this deal. I know alot of breeders and alot of them have waiting lists for their pups...some take deposits. They also gaurantee that if the pup has a genetic disease the money is completely refunded or with the option of obtaining another pup from a future litter. I would also contact the local breeder consultant and ask about this breeders history etc., you can also ask Vet's, they usually know the local breeders. If you feel hesitant about it, don't do it...keep looking for another breeder with a deal you feel comfortable with. Quote
mouseatthebusstop Posted December 12, 2003 Posted December 12, 2003 ONLY PUT DOWN A DEPOSIT WHEN THE PUPPY IS BORN AND IT IS JUST WHAT YOU WANT, The money holds the puppy for you. If this breeder will not except it this find another breeder Quote
Crested Posted December 12, 2003 Posted December 12, 2003 I'm going with Mouse! It's sick to take a deposit before a litter is even born and then say "well, we didn't have any puppies of the color/gender/etc. that you wanted. Too bad, you loose your money." I think the breeder only is thinking of the money. I mean... How can you know how many deposits that person is taking. Let's say he takes 30 deposits. That's 30 x 500! That's 15 000!! And yet, no puppies! The idea of having a deposit is that the person paying it, can't suddenly change his/her mind and say: "no, I don't want that puppy anymore". Because then the breeder have to start the search for a new home for this unwanted unlucky poor thing. It's not for the breeder to make money with without even selling any puppies. Here in Finland, the deposit for both my dogs have been 100 euros (wich is about the same in $) and Ben was sold as a pet dog for 500 or so (can't remember the exact sum in euros as we had the Finnish marks at that time and then it was 4000 Finnish marks) and Bella as a show dog for 1000 euros. The highest price for a crested that I have heard is 1200! And the deposit comes out of that price! So if we take Bella as an example it's 1000 minus 100 euros. I don't know what breed you have decided, if it's very rare or not, but I'd really suggest you search for another breeder. Quote
Peng1zrule Posted December 12, 2003 Posted December 12, 2003 I have not read the other replies...seems to me a reputable breeder would give only refundable deposits...non refundable seems to me the breeder is dealing dollar signs instead of dogs. Non refundable doesn't neccessarily mean he/she is breeding only for the money, but to me, I would take a second look at what all is being offered...health garuntees? hip/eye/elbow/temperment checked? DNA test? It is common for a breeder to take a deposit on the dogs...usually before he or she even BREEDS the dogs, though...not after they are born and people are waiting for them to become old enough to take home. Quote
Guest Anonymous Posted December 12, 2003 Posted December 12, 2003 Maybe it was a little unclear. He is definitely not running a scam. We want a Male/Fawn that is Pet quality. If, at 6 weeks, when he prices them, he does not have a male/fawn at pet quality, then we get our deposit back. He cannot price all the males at show quality, ultimately forcing us to buy a more expensive pup. The mama had 4 boys, 3 fawn and 1 brindle. I was only concerned that with only 3 male fawns being born, he may opt to classify 2 as show/breed quality and the 3rd at pet quality, and then price it at the max in tha category at $1200 to get the most out of the one pet quality puppy. Sense we would have already given a deposit, we would either have to pay the price givern or lose our deposit. Make sense? He does offer a health guarantee and we have to sign a puppy contract, which is fine. As far as this breeder being expensive, that is not the case. Our research has shown that most breeders are selling their pet quality for $1500+ and their show/breed quality for $2200-$2500+. Thanks for any advice! Quote
kendalyn Posted December 12, 2003 Posted December 12, 2003 [quote]He cannot price all the males at show quality, ultimately forcing us to buy a more expensive pup. [/quote] huh? I thought the show quality pets were the more expensive ones... Did you mean that he can't price them all at pet quality? I see no reason why the breeder cannot price all the dogs at pet quality if that's what they are. $1500 is an awful lot of money. What kind of dogs are these? Quote
Guest Anonymous Posted December 12, 2003 Posted December 12, 2003 They are English Mastiffs. What I was saying was, we can only lose our deposit if he does have a male/fawn/pet quality, and we choose not to buy from the ones he has to offer. Therefore, he cannot price the 3 male fawns he has at breed/show quality and force us to buy a more expensive puppy, as we would request a male/fawn/pet quality at deposit time. He may end up pricing them this way, but we are not obligated to buy. You are right, the breed/show are more expensive. Quote
Guest Anonymous Posted December 12, 2003 Posted December 12, 2003 i always heard that deposits cant be refunded bu can be moved to other litters or breedings. i would ask for clarification. i mean its basically a way of covering his but, if a person says yeah i want the dog, when other people are interested he has to run them away, and if you would then change your mind its kind of a way to make sure hes not cutting his own throat. if it really does mean that if there ar no pups you just lose your money dont even look twice at the litter. thats way too much money for a gamble like that.... Quote
kendalyn Posted December 12, 2003 Posted December 12, 2003 Oh, Ok well that makes sense. As long as the possibilty of you losing your deposit is contingent on your own decisions, I don't think you can lose as long as you are committed. And of course, all the appropriate testing is done. Does this breeder have a health guarantee policy? Quote
Guest Anonymous Posted December 12, 2003 Posted December 12, 2003 Here is the website that lists the puppy contract and the wording for the deposit....just in case anyone is bored...ha! Thanks again for the responses. [url]http://www.trintex.com/benoit/morrigan/[/url] Quote
imported_Kat Posted December 12, 2003 Posted December 12, 2003 They do look like caring breeders, but there is no guarantee a pup will survive or in fact they will not be able to tell no matter how experienced they are, what the "quality" of a pup will be. It isn't just looks, its also temperament and mastiffs have such problems with their pelvises which usually don't show until the dog is over 6 months at least...all points to bear in mind. Quote
Black GSD Posted December 12, 2003 Posted December 12, 2003 Well personally if it isn't too late, I wold go else where. Did you ask them WHY the price difference among the pet puppies? If it is a pet, it is a pet. PERIOD. Unless they give an additional discount if the pup has an "issue" such as being a cryptorchid. WHY did they breed this bitch? What makes her so great that she NEEDED to be bred? Apparently she isn't a show dog and neither are a fair number of the dogs in the first few generations of her pedigree. (Not saying that only show dogs should be bred, just WHY this bitch?) Have you check into her OFA rating? What is it? They seem to me like someone that bred their "pet" and now want to get money for the puppies. (Even though she was bred to a Champoin stud.) As far as their contract, as far as they are concerned, as long as the dog has it's health clearances you can breed it. NOTHING is said about faults, temperment ect... :evil: Quote
Malamum Posted December 14, 2003 Posted December 14, 2003 [quote]ONLY PUT DOWN A DEPOSIT WHEN THE PUPPY IS BORN [/quote] This is not always the case. A lot of breeders won't even consider a breeding a litter unless they have buyers (with deposits paid) for all pups before hand. Also I am still confused as to why the price varies for the pet quality pups. What is the differrence between one that he charges $ 800.00 for and another that he charges $1200.00 for? Quote
Guest Anonymous Posted December 14, 2003 Posted December 14, 2003 I would steer way clear off this "Breeder." I agree with Black GSD, it does sound like they are breeding their pet for puppies. How can they possibly evaluate the puppies if this is their only dog (from what I gather) and they haven't even titled her (If they even show at all). It is hard for experienced breeders to sometimes tell which is show quality at 8 weeks, let alone an amateur And what is up with the varying price range for pet quality? My 2 cents worth, find another breeder. Quote
Guest Anonymous Posted December 15, 2003 Posted December 15, 2003 To the contract that you want to at least be able to choose between TWO puppies?? I understand what you're saying -- that he might only have ONE puppy that fit your criteria & then, in order to not loose your deposit, you would HAVE to take that puppy. He probably will not change his contract & I understand if you change YOUR mind he wants you to forfit your deposit. But still.... I would hate to have to take the ONLY puppy I was offered. Maybe if this were the case you could have your deposit moved to another litter. But if he only has this one female, I can see where this might not happen for another year. Have you searched the Web for breeders even within say, 6 or 8 hours of you (driving time)? Maybe this would be a possibility..... Quote
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