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Pit Bulls...killer or Pet?


Guest Anonymous

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Guest Anonymous

a good freind of mine had her face chewed by a collie...not a pit bull...my point is that any kind of dog could bite you. i have a Pit bull and a border collie. the pit bull goes everywhere with me. she even sleeps with me. she has never hurt anyone,but the border collie has. if i tell him to bite you, he will. are u gonna ban border collies? if someone wants to break into my house and rapes my little sister and puts the whole country on amber alert,dont u think it would help if my dog was there to bite him? does it make a difference wether its a pit bull or a poodle? if i was a K9-cop,and my partner was a dog,i would rather have a pit bull backing me up rather than a palmeranian....if someone throws a karate kick while robbing a bank,should martail arts be banned altogether? i will always have pit bulls by my side. they will always be very friendly and intelligent. always trained when and when not to bite. they aren't wagging their tail,it is a code...

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[quote]she has never hurt anyone,but the border collie has. if i tell him to bite you, he will. are u gonna ban border collies?[/quote]

Now this statement really bugs me! IF I TELL HIM TO BITE YOU, HE WILL...have you told your border collie to attack people??? that is a bad dog owner...
First off, ANY dog can bite in the right circumstance...but, I think if I had my choice of dogs to be bitten by it would not be an APBT or a Rottweiler or AM Staff. I also do know that there are breeds of dogs which tend to be much more dominant and bull headed than others...for instance alot of terriers. So although they are wonderful dogs in the right hands and with well educated people owning them...I don't like seeing some of these breeds with ignorant owners.

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Guest Anonymous

i think maybe he was just making the point that any dog can bite. there are sooo many people out there who think that certain breeds just don't bite...period. what really gets me though, is when people think it's ok for certain breeds to be aggressive (ie. little dogs) because "oh, they can't do any damage!" yea right.

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Guest Anonymous

any animal with teeth can bite and some without. All dogs can pose a threat, even little ones. or instnace last year the mini-doxie that attacked the baby or the Yorkie that actually killed an infant the year before. But the thing is these dogs have above average power, determination, and ability for fighting. people are getting these dogs thinking they can raise them like a baby and never have a problem. WRONG!! you need to expect the worse and train for it and praise like crazy when you dog does the right things. Personally when im out i assume that my dogs will react badly, even though they never have, that way i am always ready for it. Do I think pit bulls are any more dangerous than anyother dog... clearly not. Do i think that they have more ability to do damage than most, yes. Do i think that anyone can own one.. no. Do i think they make a unbeatable pet for the right people yes.

Too often people make them out to be the sweetest thing alive and they are not. a well mannered and behaved dog can be though. your not going to get any dog and not have to do a lot of work with it, to get it o be that dream pet. and that is what people think, that they can get a breed of dog that is nice to strangers, good with kids, and friendly with other dogs and they dont have to do anything except feed and walk it. Yeah Right!!!
you have to train, and then train and then train some more to get a good dog. Its is so much a ritual for me its in my schedule, after work the next hour is dog time. no phone calls, no visitors(except as distractions for stays), no exceptions.

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I totally agree with ya Rott'n'Pit. Owning a "Pitbull" type of dog is a full time job. You have to be willing to spend time with the dog EVERY day 24/7/365. I concider my APBT to be one of my kids because he gos to training classes and his and my homework are practice training daily. Pitbulls are not for everyone. They might have the right intentions but if they don't have the time they will do more harm then good not to mention to many people get them for the wrong reasons. They don't look at the trates the Pitbulls have and realize that this breed may not be right for them. In the right hands Pitbulls are the kindest, sweetest, gentalist dogs I can think of. Personally I think breeders should be more responsible about who gets there dogs and where there dogs are going. Alot already do this but the ones that don't have there good intention dogs becomeing backyard breeding dogs.

I do the same thing when I go out in public. I try to keep in mind the old saying "NEVER TRUST YOUR PIT NOT TO FIGHT". Even if someone else's dog come over and trys to start something you will get looked at as the ashole. I've gone into petsmart and had people look at me funny because someone elses dog was barking away at mine and my pit would start wagging its tail and wineing like he was saying "can I go play daddy" but there have been time when he just sat there looking at the other dog like he was saying "Ya talk your stuff from over there, why don't you come just a little closer"

I'm glad there are a lot of resonsible Pitbull owner in the world but we have a lot to do to RIGHT the WRONGS of the irresonsible owners.

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[b][size=6][/size]
Hello there i must agree with you,I have a long story about a collie cross.But I will make it as short as I can.
I worked for our local vet for quite a long time and was climbing the ladder so to speak.I started of as a kennal maid at there quiruntine kennals then I went to being a vets assistant.From there I was going to train to become a vet.Any way one evening we was doing the late surgery. I was asked to fetch this mans dog up and that was it it attacked me and ripped half my leg apart.SO I always say it dosent matter what type the dog is if its nasty its nasty.I love dogs so much I have a collection of over 400 pot dogs,But I dont belive you can point the finger at just one breed.Trouble is they seem to report pit bulls or even rotties.you never hear of the others that attack people.so you see I belive any dog no matter what breed can turn nasty.[/b]

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julie45, I am sorry to hear what happened to you...but, those are the chances you take when working directly hands on with dogs and cats. Many animals when they are in the environment of a boarding facility, Vet clinic, or grooming shop can show abnormally high fear aggression...some times it is hard to spot, that is why it is in my opinion a necessity to take courses on dog and cat behavior and to understand the warning signs...I had one dog come in that just sort of slunk behind me and kept its head down...I was VERY careful with that dog. We also leave the leashes on dogs which we feel may be fear biters...a fear biter is much worse in a strange environment and worse still when in a cage and backed into a corner.
We had one gentleman bring his Rottweiler in for vaccins, he knelt in front of the dog while the Vet gave the shot...the dog seemed calm enough...but, that little jab sent the dog into a frenzy and it bit its owners face off...the poor guy came running out of the appointment room holding his face together...we kept his dog until he was able to pick it up the next day (he was rushed to the hospital) the dog was great with us and was very excited to see its owner...but, this was the case of a dog which was great until you did some thing it didn't want you to do...then watch out! this never made the news...another girl was attacked by her own APBT and her arm was ripped apart...the worst thing was the dog would not stop attacking....it got into that "mode" the girl was lucky she was able to get into her bathroom and lock herself in...she still doesnt know how she got away...and this was a very loved family pet...this happened due to re-directed aggression.
I think the reason why most people are more wary of breeds such as the APBT, Rottweilers most terriers are the simple fact that most times when they attack it is going to be worse and I have noticed with some of these breeds once they have gone into that "mode" its harder to get them out of it...and another thing about "some" breeds is what they were orginally bred for in the first place...for instance a Golden Retreiver has had a few of its motor patterns deleted to make it a good hunting dog...you certainly would not want the Retreiver going beyond grab-bite to kill bite when fetching the game bird...but, you can have the Retreiver which display a "hard mouth" which happens, these dogs would have been culled at one time, now, they usually will not use them for breeding...its a motor pattern a hunter does not want his dog to display...Terrier's, APBT's etc have not had any of their motor patterns deleted..so a grab-bite will most often go to kill bite....most terriers where bred to kill rats and other rodents, and the APBT as a pit fighter with other dogs...they certainly wanted these dogs to have the drive and all the motor patterns to make this disgusting sport some thing to bet on (sick humans) so of course the breeders wanted them to have spunk and the drive to complete the series of hard wired motor patterns. This is another reason I feel people should research the breed of dog and what they were orginally bred for before considering it to be a part of the family.

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[b]I didnt tell my story for any one to feel sorry for me,My point was that people point there finger at pit bulls when it dosent matter what the breed they can all be nasty when they want to be.But the trouble with pit bull is they get put in the paper.people make a big deal of it,but if its any other breed it dont hit the papers.Also its not the dog thats at fault in all cases some of the owners are to blame.These dogs cant speak up for then selfs so some one has to.
I took the job because I love animals,also I knew what I was doing when I accept the job.I delt with alsorts of breeds and it wasnt just the pit bulls you had to watch out for.I agree we should study the breeds but I still say all the studing you do can never perpare you for what a dog might be thinking when it decides to attack.PEOPLE are different so why shouldnt dogs be.and yes I knew what the job was all about but I am not sorry thats the kind of work I decided to do.I THINK ALL BREEDS DESEVE A CHANCE.[/b]

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I believe that ANY dog can bite, as already stated. Pit's Rotties, Poodles, Golden's, a Golden here removed half of a childs face. It's not the breed, it's the dog, and the owners who DID NOT train the dogs....

[quote]We had one gentleman bring his Rottweiler in for vaccins, he knelt in front of the dog while the Vet gave the shot...the dog seemed calm enough...but, that little jab sent the dog into a frenzy and it bit its owners face off...the poor guy came running out of the appointment room holding his face together..[/quote]

I ALWAYS hold Freebee when she gets her shots, and while she sometimes growl, she KNOWS BETTER to to bite me, for any reason...
this man did not have the proper alpha control over his dog, who he WOULD NEVER HAVE BITTEN DESPITE THE PROVOCATION....A dog who has been badly injured, like hit by a car, could bite an alpha owner out of
fear, but a shot??? it doesnt hurt NEARLY enough to cause a fear bite
unless the dog is not properly controlled, and body language will tell you right off the bat how he will behave. Vets will give you a muzzle for the shots if you ask for one.

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Guest Anonymous

[quote]fear, but a shot??? it doesnt hurt NEARLY enough to cause a fear bite
unless the dog is not properly controlled, and body language will tell you right off the bat how he will behave. Vets will give you a muzzle for the shots if you ask for one.[/quote]
[b]Quote by Courtnek[/b]
Courtnek, I think you mistook what I was saying...I did not say this dog bit its owner out of fear...if you read on further I stated this dog bit the owner as it was great until you did some thing it didn't want you to do...so in other words I was trying to state the dog was very dominant and I was telling of some horrible attacks by APBT's and Rotties that I have witnessed personally which have never made it to the news or papers. The Vet did ask the gentleman if the dog required a muzzle, even though the dog was very friendly we all realize that Rottweilers and other dominant breeds are more apt to bite when made to do some thing they don't like...some breeds are more likely to be more dominant than other breeds.
[b]My Quote [/b]
[quote]the poor guy came running out of the appointment room holding his face together...we kept his dog until he was able to pick it up the next day (he was rushed to the hospital) the dog was great with us and was very excited to see its owner...[b]but, this was the case of a dog which was great until you did some thing it didn't want you to do...then watch out! this never made the news[/b].[/quote]

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Guest Anonymous

I don't agree with that statement either. Plus Pit bulls are not a dominant breed, as far as human go. Dogs and other animals, yes. But people, NO!

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[quote]but, this was the case of a dog which was great until you did some thing it didn't want you to do...then watch out! this never made the news.[/quote]

Sorry, Guest, I somehow missed that sentence.... :oops: :oops:

this is courtnek, in case I dont show up as myself, which hasnt been happening lately....

I also cant say I agree that Rotties and Dobies are more likely to bite, and I will agree that dachsunds can sometimes be more dangerous...my ex's mom owned one and he was a powder keg....but again that's the whole misguided mind set that small dogs looking vicious is "cute"....

:roll:

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Guest Anonymous

It seems funny when people are concerned about a certain breed or breeds such as the Rottweilers and APBT's and are perhaps a little fearful of them or have had a bad experience...EVERYONE seems to jump on them and tear apart other breeds of dogs...Courtnek, I am sure you are aware that dachsunds where bred to kill rats and other rodents..they are much more a terrier than a hound...they in my opinion where misgrouped by the kennel clubs.
In my opinion there are alot of breeds out there which really impress me for their gentleness and submissiveness...people are more likely to run up and hug and aproach "cute" dogs in a very threatening manner...for instance Golden Retrievers...children and others don't seem to give one thought about running up and hugging them and not asking the owner if it is safe...I am surprised there are not more attacks by Goldens, Newf's, small dog breeds etc. People are not as likely to run up and hug a Rottweiler, Shepherd, Akita or APBT or AST...I do beleive that "some" breeds such as Rottweilers can be a little more aggressive when approached in the wrong manner...but, then again any breed of dog can have "dominant" dogs...I have found that alot of Gaurd breeds, terriers, spitz, northern breeds etc can be more prone to be dominant and require a knowledgeable owner.
Another thing about small dog breeds...for one thing...a bite from a small breed is usually due to these dogs being spoiled by their owners, they are more likely to be carried by the owner...strangers tend to think that it is still OK to approach small dogs carried by the owner...in the dogs eyes this person is invading its owners "personal space"....
I am much more cautious myself when approaching a strange Rottweiler, APBT etc. I am aware they are more in tune with my body language than say a Golden Retreiver...I also am aware that a bite from one of these breeds is going to cause much more damage to my body. I have a mental list of breeds I am cautious around...I tend also to access the owner of the dog before hand as well. People who state that their dog does not bite usually has a dog which will bite.
Another thing, when a dog attack hits the paper its usually due to a child being attacked or bitten or a stranger than the dogs own family...so please don't feel as though people are personally picking on certain breeds just to gain attention...people are scared, and instead of looking down on people for being frightened of a breed...educate them...but, please don't tell me that APBT's and Rotties etc. are the sweetest dogs out there and people are just fabricating stories about them for attention..perhaps no one on this board has had a bad experience with an APBT...I have...and I will also tell you it was the owners fault...not due to the dog being abused...but, due to the dog being spoiled rotten and getting away with every thing.
Every one here has to put down other breeds...tell me...were the dachsunds every one is speaking of well trained??? where they spoiled and let to do what ever they want?
Of course any breed of dog or mongrel can be a threat and can bite and the size of the person being bitten can determine how bad the bite can be....a dachsund could injure a child or kill a baby...an APBT could tear a child apart and could kill an adult...so could alot of large breeds. The course of action is to insure dogs are well trained and not spoiled along the way...make sure the breed of dog fits you lifestyle..."some" breeds can be much more "dominant" and harder to fit into most life styles...the problems we are going through this day and age with dog attacks and bites is mainly due to the fact that rarely in the history of the dog have they been placed as a member of the family...our dogs of today are treated more like human children than dogs...not that I think dogs should be left out side or in a kennel with other dogs and not brought inside... :roll: I would not have it any other way than to have my dogs beside me...but, at one time dogs where bred to perform certain jobs to help humans....most dogs where not a member of the family, that would have been like bringing in the best pig to live like a human child :lol: ...of course there are exceptions....there are some breeds which were developed just to be lap dogs even in the time long ago...I guess I am trying to say in a round about manner is when we take dogs which were bred for a certain job, and then try to raise them as we would a human child...we are only asking for problems to develop...and some breeds require a more knowledgeable owner than others...

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Guest Anonymous

There are so many breeds dog that various people on this forum own. we do not bash any breed. I dont think anyone here said all doxies are bad and should be banned. It just stresses the point that ANY dog of any breed/ size can be dangerous. We are not against any breed of dog in fact in the time i have been here i have never even seen a breed of dog get bashed, now individual dogs of a breed can be trouble but not the entire breed as a whole.
Lots of dogs "could" do stuff, and are capapble of doing things. that what we mean by training, socialization, and taking responsiblity for your animal. When you say raising a dog like a child what do you mean? because if you mean letting them do waht they want and never correcting them that is not raising them like a child that not raising them at all. Children are punished when properly raised as should dogs be. I refer to my dogs as my kids or Daddys girl/boy on a dialy basis. they love the attention and when you talk all baby gibberish to them its drives them nuts. so why shouldnt I? When people ask does your dog bite I tell them no. because he doesnt. or should i say he hasnt. part of raising a dog is watching for signs and changes with age, not just assuming that because your dog has never done somehing that it never will. You are preaching to the choir on this one. we are all quite aware of the problems and the difficulty of finding a realistic solution.
:black:

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Guest Anonymous

[quote]I don't agree with that statement either. Plus Pit bulls are not a dominant breed, as far as human go. Dogs and other animals, yes. But people, NO![/quote]
Well said guest. I will say though that there IS the occasional oddball in ANY breed, with an abnormal temperament, so it's not impossible to come across a diminant APBT, just uncommon.

[quote]Courtnek, I am sure you are aware that dachsunds where bred to kill rats and other rodents..they are much more a terrier than a hound...they in my opinion where misgrouped by the kennel clubs.[/quote]
No, Dachshunds were primarily bred to hunt bagers, but they usually didn't kill them, just drew them out to where a hunter could dispatch them. I'm sure that some were used to hunt/kill other small animals, but that was NOT their primary purpose.

[quote]people are more likely to run up and hug and aproach "cute" dogs in a very threatening manner...for instance Golden Retrievers...children and others don't seem to give one thought about running up and hugging them and not asking the owner if it is safe...I am surprised there are not more attacks by Goldens, Newf's, small dog breeds etc. [/quote]
First, many small breed dogs don't inflict enough damage for the person to go to the hopspital, so a LOT of them aren't reported (though if you can locate the list of most frequently biting dogs, many small dog breeds are VERY high up on the list. It's also possible that owners of rotties, shepherds, APBTs, akitas, etc are more proactive, and thus manage to ward off people who come running up to "hug" their dog, just in case their dog (like many dogs) does not like strangers running up and throwing themselves upon him in a gesture of dominance.

[quote]People are not as likely to run up and hug a Rottweiler, Shepherd, Akita or APBT or AST...[/quote]
Yes, you're forgetting another "not as likely" though... ignorant, irresponsible, careless owners are not as likely to own dogs known for their gentleness and submissiveness, they prefer dogs with bad names, and do everything they can to make the dogs live up to their bad reputations. That alone speaks volumes as to why certain dogs are less likely to be approached, "more likely to bite", etc.

[quote]a bite from a small breed is usually due to these dogs being spoiled by their owners[/quote]
This is true in some cases, but there are also a LOT of completely unstable small dogs out and about today. These dogs are to breeed and make more unstable small dogs, simply because since they're small, their problems are easily manageable. I have know a lot of small dogs that, though socialized extensively and treated like any dogs, are extremely fearful, sharp, aggressive, etc anyway.

[quote]they are more likely to be carried by the owner...strangers tend to think that it is still OK to approach small dogs carried by the owner...in the dogs eyes this person is invading its owners "personal space".... [/quote]
I often pick up our Dachshund when people want to pet her. It's easy for a small dog to misinterpret a person standing or bending down over them as a threat, and it's also hard to watch her face for signals that she's had enough when she's 4 1/2 ft below my eye level. She's fine when people come up and pet her while she's sitting or standing on the ground, but I'd rather be able to watch her closely and KNOW. Also, my holding her ensures that I have control over her, they can't try to pick her up, or poke her eyes out, or rip her ears off her head. I also will pick her up if we're walking through a large crowd of people, as I don't want her getting kicked by people who are too busy talking to pay attention to where they're walking. Other than my carrying her around at times, she's treated very much like both the 50-60 lb dogs we have, so I wouldn't consider her spoiled.

[quote]I am much more cautious myself when approaching a strange Rottweiler, APBT etc. I am aware they are more in tune with my body language than say a Golden Retreiver[/quote]
I'm not sure what you mean by this...

[quote]I also am aware that a bite from one of these breeds is going to cause much more damage to my body.[/quote]
Tell that to the boy who was attacked by a golden a couple weeks agao in MD... you think he's glad he was savaged by a "gentle" breed rather than an APBT or rotty? ANY large dog that is attacking a person with the intent of hurting them IS going to hurt them, no matter their breed.

[quote]People who state that their dog does not bite usually has a dog which will bite. [/quote]
Whenever I am out with one of the dogs, and am asked if they bite, or get "the look" of horror (or in Haley's case, almost one of grotesque interest) for more than a few seconds, I will tell a person that they're friendly. Why not if it's the truth? I'll also tell people who try to let their dogs "say hello" to the dog aggressive ones that "they don't like other dogs", or if that fails "she'll fight with him". Some people may lie and say their dogs won't bite when they know they will, but that's not my fault.

[quote]so please don't feel as though people are personally picking on certain breeds just to gain attention...people are scared, and instead of looking down on people for being frightened of a breed...educate them[/quote]
I agree. If someone is afraid of a breed of dog because they've heard bad things or had a bad experience, that's not their fault, and I'm not about to look down on that, as everyone has their fears.

[quote]Every one here has to put down other breeds...tell me...were the dachsunds every one is speaking of well trained??? where they spoiled and let to do what ever they want? [/quote]
I can only speak for my dog, but yes, she is well trained, and yes, she would bite a person if they pushed themselves on her. She's also got VERY high prey drive, and would grab anything moving fast if not kept under control... this could include kids, cats, even joggers and bike riders. She's fine in MOST situations, I know which ones she's not ok in, and we avoid them. She is this way NOT because she's spoiled, on because she's not trained, but because she was genetically predisposed to high prey drive and little tolerance of harassment. Hard as it can be to accept, there are "bad" dogs in every breed, to varying degrees. IMO, ANY dog who attacks or tries to kill a person (as that dachshund did) is unstable and NO excuses need to be made for that type of behavior.

[quote]size of the person being bitten can determine how bad the bite can be....a dachsund could injure a child or kill a baby...an APBT could tear a child apart and could kill an adult...so could alot of large breeds.[/quote]
There have been accounts of small dogs doing real damage to people. Someone my mom knows had a small dog that took off almost all of her 9 yo grandson's nose, as well as part of his lip. That child will face years of plastic surgery, just to look somewhat normal. On the large breed piece, yes, even "soft mouthed" breeds can do severe damage...
[url]http://www.heraldandnews.com/articles/2003/09/10/news/top_stories/top2.txt[/url]

That same week, a GR attacked a boy in MD, apparently bad enough that he almost lost his leg.
Those were just two recent stories...

As I said above, bad dogs happen in every breed, the best thing a person can do is not make excuses, get the bad dogs out of the genepool, and strive to make "them" happen less often.

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[b] :-? :-? Well from what I have readthis has really caused a debate as always. I know how it feels to be bitten by a breed of dog,as I said in my post.I have also worked with a lot of breeds and I found them all to be different just as we humans are in many ways.But really my point is I hate the finger always being pointed at the few breeds that always hit the news.we should all know has responebly dog owners that we should do our best to bring our dogs up to repect what we train them and I do belive that most of us do.Its only those that buy a dog such as a pit bull rottie ect because they feel big walking up the street with it.Also they teach there dog to behave in an aggressive way.So in many cases the owner is as much to blame as the poor dog. :evilbat: :evilbat: :evilbat: [/b]

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Guest Anonymous

[quote name='Anonymous'] People who state that their dog does not bite usually has a dog which will bite.[/quote]

I cannot count how many times a week that I am asked "Is you dog friendly?", "Does your dog bite?", and "Can I pet your dog or does it bite?"....Not because the dog is acting aggressive, in fact in most cases they are sitting there, wagging their tails like madmen/women and wiggling around like worms. But because they are clearly Pit Bulls people assume that they will be mean. And when they ask of course I answer honestly and say "No they do not bite, and they are very friendly. If you would like to pet them you may, they would probably love to do some tricks for you too." Am I wrong in saying this? :icon_rock:

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