Guest Anonymous Posted August 22, 2003 Share Posted August 22, 2003 Oh he's such a smart boy! I am so absolutly proud! He's a very quick learner, and is very quick to react! Has that awsome Border Collie speed!!!! :D I can't WAIT to do agility! Even having him run through the tunnel is a blast!! :D He's learning Heel really fast!! I'm very proud! And he's learning stay, and has almost got Come 100% right!! :D :D YAY COAL!! :D :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aroura Posted August 22, 2003 Share Posted August 22, 2003 Yay for Coal!!!! Glad to hear he's going well!!! Wish he could meet Donna, they'd get along so well :wink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheltielover Posted August 22, 2003 Share Posted August 22, 2003 Wow, way to go Coal!!! And way to go to you too, Shara........you're doing great with training him!!! :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yatooma Posted August 22, 2003 Share Posted August 22, 2003 [color=darkblue][size=7]WAY TO GO COAL[/size][/color] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowie-the-Pooh Posted August 22, 2003 Share Posted August 22, 2003 Yahoo! Way to go Coaley Moaley! Can't wait for pics and agility updates! :wink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angelboddy Posted August 22, 2003 Share Posted August 22, 2003 :klacz: [size=6][color=red][u][b]Yeah, for Coal![/b][/u][/color][/size] :klacz: Awwwww, it sounds like he is doing such an awesome job. :D Keep up the great work Coal and Shara. :wink: And give coal a big wet kiss for me. :calus: :grins: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted August 22, 2003 Share Posted August 22, 2003 yes, Yay for Coal... he was doing so good, until... :lol: :roll: Well, he's outside a lot because he likes it outside, and because everyone puts him out when he gets to be a pest, which is a LOT. So I let him inside last night, figured he needs to be in more often because otherwise he's slowly guna be outside all the time!! Plus he'll never learn to behave inside if he's outside right? WELL! HE was inside for about 15 minutes, and was horsing around, I tried to get him to lay down and chew on his toy while I watched a movie, and he was pretty good, until suddenly outa the blue he flipped his head up (he was on my lap :roll: ) and clocked me right in the jaw!! :o OWE did it ever hurt!! I heard my teeth clunk together and could taste blood in my mouth, arrrggg! So much money's gone into my teeth as it is and there's still tones more work that needs to be done and here he's goin messin it up! It hurt so bad, tears came to my eyes and so Coal gets all worried, he HATES it when people cry, and so he was licking my tears away, which made me laugh, then made my jaw and teeth hurt more! So I tried to get him to stop and he gave me this look like "FINE!" and bit me!!! :o :lol: :roll: So of course, he had to go back outside because he was just making it worse... TODAY he will come inside and learn something... TODAY... :roll: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angelboddy Posted August 22, 2003 Share Posted August 22, 2003 GOOD LUCK! :angel: AND COAL.............IT IS NOT A BOXING RING INSIDE THE HOUSE. :roll: Is your mouth ok? Hope he did not do any serious damage. :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted August 22, 2003 Share Posted August 22, 2003 [quote]AND COAL.............IT IS NOT A BOXING RING INSIDE THE HOUSE. :roll: [/quote] :lol: :lol: Oh it's okay this morning, was swollen last nite, and it's still a bit tender, but at least I can eat now, couldn't last nite cuz I couldn't open it much :-? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mouseatthebusstop Posted August 22, 2003 Share Posted August 22, 2003 :laola: :laola: well done coal :) glad he was not hurt to bad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted August 22, 2003 Share Posted August 22, 2003 [quote name='mouseatthebusstop']:laola: :laola: well done coal :) glad he was not hurt to bad[/quote] HE? HE was not hurt?!? [b]HE[/b] clocked [size=6][b]ME[/b][/size] in the face!! :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mouseatthebusstop Posted August 22, 2003 Share Posted August 22, 2003 [quote]HE? HE was not hurt?!? HE clocked ME in the face!! _________________[/quote] sorry Shara I must be reading fast and missing words out you ok now :oops: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted August 22, 2003 Share Posted August 22, 2003 :lol: yeah, I'm fine Mouse, thanks for asking. :wink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtnek Posted August 23, 2003 Share Posted August 23, 2003 [quote]So I tried to get him to stop and he gave me this look like "FINE!" and bit me!!! So of course, he had to go back outside because he was just making it worse... TODAY he will come inside and learn something... TODAY... [/quote] Shara dear friend, I DONT want to rain on your parade but the above trait HAS TO STOP! NOW! A dog should NEVER be allowed to bite you, for any reason, I dont care how PO'd it is. If it becomes a battle and a muzzle, it cant be allowed. There is no safety with a dog that bites his people. Lab's nip, and mouth, and even that cant be tolerated. I cant stress enough how important this is If the dog feels alpha enough to bite you, you have a major problem.... Freebee used to nip, and mouth, and I broke her of it using a technique that wolves use. If an underling nips or bites at a higher ranking animal, that animal will take his ear in his mouth and bite down on it. Hard enought to hurt, but not hard enough to break skin. The dog will squirm, and try to get away in most cases. You can do this with your fingernails. At the same time, yell NO!!!! LOUDLY AND DETERMINED!! Grab the ear from behind the head, so he is not facing you, and PINCH until he squirms. Then when he stops, praise him and pet him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted August 23, 2003 Share Posted August 23, 2003 :-? Coal's bitting has been a REALLY big problem... at first then we'd just give him a toy when he'd try and chew on us because he was teething, so we were teaching him that, but he's got all his big teeth now and he keeps doing it! :evil: Your method seems a little derastic :o I'd give anything to make him stop bitting, but that seems a little harsh! :o :o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtnek Posted August 23, 2003 Share Posted August 23, 2003 actually, it's not. Your fingers cant put nearly the pressure a dogs can into the correction - and it's what their instincts will tell them this act is wrong... You dont want to hurt him, just make him realize that you are DISPLEASED and you are using wolf correction to make him behave. Trust me, it works quite nicely. You wont hurt him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted August 23, 2003 Share Posted August 23, 2003 aight... I will try, thanks Court! I will let ya know how it goes with him! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted August 23, 2003 Share Posted August 23, 2003 Well court, I tried, and it didn't work :-? He looked really sad and sorry, and then as soon as I'd let him go, he'd get really ticked off and bite me even harder!! :evil: :cry: :drinking: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carolk9s Posted August 23, 2003 Share Posted August 23, 2003 So am I to understand that Coal has been biting you and/or members of the family since he first came to you? Geez Shara, this should have been stopped right from the start. If Coal is still biting, there must be a payoff in it for him. You CANNOT continue to play or interact with him when he bites you. All play STOPS. You should say OW loudly but no yelling or screaming, all that will do is escalate the situation in his mind. Do you have a crate inside for Coal? While I don't like using a crate as punishment it is an option, just DON'T YELL, HIT OR THREATEN HIM. If you have a crate, he bites, oh dear playtime is over into the crate with you my love and you WALK AWAY. All done matter of fact, no hysterics, no fussing. Let HIM fuss all he wants, do not talk to him, no sympathy, no I told ya so's etc. After 10 minutes, let him out while you are calm. If he bites you again, back into the crate. Other things you might try. Does he bite you in the same place such as your hand, arm or GOD FORBID, your face? If he does, you might try using bitter apple on your skin or vicks, they both should taste nasty to him. You might also be able to teach him a bite command and therefore a no bite command. Try with a toy of his, start while he is fairly calm so is not out of control right from the start. Hold it out to him and tell him to bite it. If he does, praise him. Oh, does he have a leave it command? Use it if he does. If he will consistantly bite a toy 'on command', then teach him no bite. It will take a bit of time as he is young but he CAN be taught NO BITE. Praise and treat him when he seems to be getting it. Then when you are playing with him, you NEED to start seeing signs that he is getting to the point of a bite, even a play bite, and tell him NO BITE. Once he knows what this means, he should pause and look at you, if he does, praise him CALMLY. Shara, do NOT let this continue, it should not have been cute or acceptable when he was a baby and it sure won't be in an adult dog. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtnek Posted August 23, 2003 Share Posted August 23, 2003 it's ok Shara - it takes some time. You made the mistake of letting him up as soon as he looked "sorry" - dont, next time. make him stay in the apology position, lying down, and dont let him get up. Dont let him "weasle" up to you. You have to be FIRM!! Make him understand. by being ordered to LAY DOWN, and stay there,that you wont take any crap. It may take a lot of tries, but he WILL eventually get it. And once he does, he wont bite you anymore. He has an alpha complex. and you have to defeat it. you GO girl!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted August 23, 2003 Share Posted August 23, 2003 Thanks for the advice Carol, but it was NEVER acceptable or cute, we've tried EVERY method in the book ('cept the bitterapple, can't find any anywhere... plus ew! won't I taste funny? :o :lol: :roll: ) it seems like the more we try to correct him, the madder he gets, so the quicker and harder he bites!! He'll bite and run SO FAST, you would not believe how fast this dog can move! It's so utterly frustrating! And I hate yelling at him, cuz for some reason he gets SOOO Scared when people yell, and then he feels even more a reason to protect himself or anything like that. I will try to teach him to bite on command and then to not bite, he knows to take toys, although he's still slowly learning to not snap at them, and he's learning the leave it command (I like to teach him lots of things at one time, that way he doesn't get bored when trianing because it's always something different). The hardest thing is because he only mainly bites me, although he does bite other members of the family, it seems to be mainly me. And everyone smacks him :o And forever they were telling me to do it, I'll flip him on the nose with my fingers, but I refuse to hit my dog!! And everyone else seems to think it's okay! Every time I catch them I tell them not to!! BUT NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. He doesn't bite my dad, my dad will fwaped (it's a word!) him and say NO and he stops, so dad clames it works, but I don't want my dog to learn things through abuse!!! :o :evil: :evil: :drinking: It's so hard to get everyone in the house to teach him things the same way, I hate having to "Share the dog" with everyone else, but of course it's good for him, but yet no one seems to listen to me!!! :cry: :cry: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aroura Posted August 23, 2003 Share Posted August 23, 2003 If he is biting you it is probably thinking that it is a game, especially if he gets excited and runs and bites at the same time. My main advice would be to teach him the word "settle" or something like that. If he gets excited and bites or something, tell him settle and you have to use your whole body language to calm him down, don't grab madly at him, but calmly hold him still with one hand while saying "good boy" and patting him slowly with the other. Don't pull away or make sudden movements. If that doesn't work cross your arms and look away until he calms down, then slowly bend over and pat him while gently telling him to settle. If he is in a particulary roudy mood even walk away into a room he's not allowed in, such as the kitchen. The dogs aren't allowed in the kitchen and it is ALOT easier to stand in the kitchen with visitors than to calm down four crazy excited dogs, once they get used to the person being there they can go out and pat the dogs when they have calmed down, there isn't a door but only a line on the ground the dogs can't pass. So if you have a room like that it is a great training tool, if you don't maybe you could consider making a room or space that you are allowed in but Coal isn't? Just whatever you do, don't EVER chase him or lunge at him, its only going to make him more excited and into his "little game". What Courtneck suggested may not work for all dogs. For example Tessa, if something hurts her she will just go psycho, run around, jump up and nip in submission. Lots of dogs will calm down with submission, Tessa just goes crazier. It made it hard to socialise her when she was younger as when an older dog told her off she would run around and grovel in its path making it angrier. I havn't seen Coal, but maybe his submission is like that? If so, a calmer approach to stopping his nips may be the way to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted August 23, 2003 Share Posted August 23, 2003 OH I love you Aroura!! :angel: :lol: I will print out what you wrote and show it to mum and dad (when he gets back from fishing) and Kat, because how you explained Tessa is EXACTLLY how Coal reacts!! That's really weird... no wonder I was so confused :lol: to me submiton is "tuck tail between legs, roll on belly, be all calm" sorta deal! [quote]What Courtneck suggested may not work for all dogs. For example Tessa, if something hurts her she will just go psycho, run around, jump up and nip in submission. Lots of dogs will calm down with submission, Tessa just goes crazier. It made it hard to socialise her when she was younger as when an older dog told her off she would run around and grovel in its path making it angrier. I havn't seen Coal, but maybe his submission is like that? If so, a calmer approach to stopping his nips may be the way to go.[/quote] I totally agree, it's like a light in front of me! LOL That's how he is, wow... I never even thought it was a submissive thing! I thought he was being just a bone head! :lol: (well, not quite, but ya know...) I've been tryin got teach him to settle down, but it's really hard, but I'll try my best to do that, I've been kina racking my brain on how to teach him that, but the way you explain it seems so simple I can't believe I overlooked it! :roll: Thanks tones! I will try, and let you know how it goes!! :D Thanks for the advice anyway Court, I will keep trying to roll him on his back and stuff of course, and do the little things to teach him I'm boss, cuz I know he doesn't always understand that, but I'll try things less derastic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nancy B Posted August 23, 2003 Share Posted August 23, 2003 Shara, dealing with Coal's tendancies to bite is a lot more important than teaching any tricks. If you have tried "every trick in the book" I would suggest that you consult a behaviorist and/or trainer to get assistance in dealing with it. This is VERY important! The longer Coal is allowed to bite (and no, I'm not saying that you like it, I'm saying that as long as it goes on) the more difficult it will be to change the behavior. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtnek Posted August 23, 2003 Share Posted August 23, 2003 [quote]What Courtneck suggested may not work for all dogs. For example Tessa, if something hurts her she will just go psycho, run around, jump up and nip in submission. [/quote] That's absolutely correct. However, I did not intend for anyone to think I am advocating hurting the dog. Just enough pressure to make them take notice is usually all you need. You dont want to put so much pressure on it hurts, or they yelp. I may have stated it wrong originally. Think of it more like a pinch - just enough to feel a lttle discomfort, but not to really hurt. sorry about that. I should probably choose my wording more carefully. and yes, some dogs do nip out of submission, but that needs to be stopped as well. Submissive pack animals do often nip, but they have fur and undercoats to deflect it. We dont, so while Coal may not be trying to bite really, it's still painful and should be stopped. This may seem harsh to some, but none of my dogs have ever been allowed to set teeth to me, even in play. SHe knows that if her teeth come in contact with my skin, she needs to back off. and just the NO TEETH command, after she was trained, is enough. Possibly your settle command will work better, It's a very good idea. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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