Chaining Dogs

[Guest Anonymous]

What is so wrong with chaining a dog. I don't understand the difference between chaining and kennels runs when it comes to the care of the dog. A dog can be uncared for and neglected in a kennel the same as on a chain, I don't think it really makes a difference. If the owner doesn't care about the dog, then it doesn't matter if it is on a chain, in a crate or in a kennel run. I think leaving a dog in a Pen 24/7 is just as bad as leaving them on a chain.
Some neigbors of ours have to old mutts who live in 2 pens 24/7 365days a year, bardly feed enough to keep alive and don't always have fresh water. :cry:
And another has GSD i have no idea what for, not saying that you have to do an activity but GSSDs need lots of training and excercise, and these dogs hardly ever leave there runs. Once I had a 5 month old pup out and their girl asked if my puppy could come play with hers in the pen, and I said no. I dont allow my dogs to walk in their own feces, and I deffinanlty don't allow them to walk in other dogs feces. These pens are just filthy and full of crap!!! The dogs are wild, and unsocialized!
I think leaving any dog any place with little human contact and care in any form is wrong, not just chaining a dog. Because they can be neglected losse in a big back yard!

[Horsefeathers!]

I have a problem with ANY dog that is confined to one space with little mobility/social interaction. It's just as wrong, to me, for a dog to be confined 24/7 in a 6' x 8' pen as it is to keep them chained up. However, pointing out "wrongs" doesn't make keeping a dog on a chain any more "right," IMO. I can even see where it might be a short term solution in some circumstances, but a dog should not have to spend its entire life on a chain any more than it should have to spend its entire life in a pen. I don't care how it's validated ("...but I walk him occasionally," "I do go outside and feed him and pet him every night..." "my neighbors' dogs are in a filthy pen... my dog is chained to a nice clean tree..." "...but I pick up the poop and it doesn't get muddy at all...").

[mouseatthebusstop]

JUST BECAUSE SOMEONE CARES FOR THEIR DOG LESS THAN YOU DO, DOES MAKE WHAT YOUR DOING AS RIGHT! :cry:
THERE ARE MANY WHO CARE A LOT BETTER THAN BOTH OF YOU.
HOPE THIS MAKES SENCE

[Poofy]

The problem with chaining is several things. First, in many breeds, chaining increases bite drive. Chaining can make a biter out of a dog who origionally was never a biter. They use chaining in bite training to increase the drive to bite...so I know it has a record of sucess. Second chaining does not protect the dog. Another dog can and still will get to your dog. Unlike the chained dog, the intruder can get away, the chained dog is at its mercy. Third, a chain does not keep out people who are too stupid to not try and pet a strange dog or a child who is too ignorant to know better. Even if by accident a chaned dog can do serious damage to a person if they wrap the chain around their legs and trip them or a childs neck and choke them (we actually had an account of that in my town)
At lease with a pen, you can put a top on it to preven people from climbing in, a lock on the door to discourage them to go in...and the chainlink usually prevents the intrusion of other dogs and animals.

Chains can have their uses for SHORT periods of time. Like a tie out if you don't have a fence and no time to walk the dog that day, put them on the tie out for 10 minutes, let them do their job then bring them in...chains as a means of confinement, are generally more dangerous then a pen.

I do not agree with any dog being left out 24/7 to live as a yard ornament.

[DogPaddle]

Good points poofy.

Bullwise - I'm sure you will get responses on this thread but if you wan't more information on peoples reasons for dislining chaining you can also view the humane education thread in this forum and the my contract thread in breeds or breeding forum.

[Guest Anonymous]

I agree, and Poofy has some [i][b]really great[/b][/i] points! I know with my dog, she IS aggressive, and she use to be tied up ( :cry: ). I/we didn't know any better, then I found out all the horible things about chains... even though I DID train, play with, feed, have a tone suply of water for Hazel, it didn't make it right! I found out that chaining a dog can actually make it MORE aggressive! When a (aggressive) dog is lunging at something, and gets *snaped* back on the chain, they will relate that pain on whatever their focusing on, therefore, making them MORE aggressive!
Not saying it's right what your neighbor's are doing, in fact, someone (that someone could just so be you) should report them to the local Humane Society. :x

[daisykatep]

I can never see why people have dogs if they are left outside all the time, surely a dog is part of the family and should live with thier family. We always have our dogs inside, they are properly trained when they are puppies, they have the run of the house and the garden (which has a wall round and locked gates so nobody can get in).they are taken for 2 good hour long walks a day and are very happy dogs! As for chains they are dangerous to dogs, I would never dream of chaining a dog. If you want a dog you should think of it's security before you get it :roll:

[courtnek]

Most of the points I was going to make have already been made. A chain has to be attached to something, and it gives the dog a bad risk of getting entangled in it. However, did you say you leave the dog out this way all the time, or just sometimes?
I dont believe dogs should be chained out all the time, because of the above mentioned danger of ignorant neighbors, children and other dogs.

For a short run, the better solution in a non-fenced yard is a chain run.
A metal line attached to two places (not trees) with a 6-8 foot long "leash"
on the dogs collar with a loop in it. He can run up and down the line, and the length of the leash can let him move back and forth. Depending on how wide the area is the leash can be even longer - Since it's not attached to anything but the wire it doesnt get tangled, and it's completely off the ground. THIS IS NOT AN ALL DAY CONFINEMENT MEANS. This is for letting him out to do his business and run a while. Like you said, dog runs are no better, especially if not cared for, and they tend to make the dogs feel locked up all the time.

The best solution, if possible, is a fence. I still, however, do not believe in letting them stay out all day unless they have a warm, clean place to rest (like a doghouse with straw in it), blocked from the wind, and only providing the yard is tamper-proofed and the weather is tolerable.
Mine would love to stay out all day, but winter in Chicago precludes that.
So does summer, come to think of it.....there also has to be fresh water every day.

I would never leave mine out all night, no matter how nice out it is.

One other thing to think about - dogs that are outside all day tend to bark, at every little thing - even more so when they're chained, because they cant get closer to investigate. Be aware that a dog that barks all day will annoy your neighbors, who may decide to throw a peace of poisoned steak into the yard to put a stop to the noise. Antifreeze can be gotten anywhere, and dogs love the way it tastes....

[Guest Anonymous]

Well I genuinly think that these people have NEVER seen a well cared for dog that was chained. I have. More than one hundred of them(not in the same yard of course). I have also seen some horribly neglected ones on chains,in Fences,in kennels,and in crates. It is just a means of confinement and for most breeds I would not reccomend it.Yes the neighbors could feed your chained dog antifreeze but they could also do the same thing if your dog had free run in a fenced yard or was kept in a kennel. Yes ,your dog could become entangled while on a chain and strangle himself if you are stupid enough to chain them anywhere nezr any objects they could become entangled in,But then again your dog could try to jump your six foot fence and get it's collar or tags caught on the top wire parts of the fence and strangle himself as well. He could also get his tags entangled in the door of the crate and die if crated. Well you may say"Why don't you keep the collar loose enough to slip off?"But then what is the point of having a collar on the dog?You use collars to keep forms of identification on them right ? You would not want them to fall off would you? You would not want the collar to slip off while you were walking your dog near a street and have your dog suddenly get loose and bolt in front of a moving car Would you?
Yes chained dogs can spill their water,but what prevents dogs in kennels or in fenced yards from doing the same?
Yes ,they can spill their food but so can unchained dogs .
Yes, if dogs are neglected and unsocialized and never pet or walked or played with they can become agressive or overly shy regardless of the yard or chain setup.If they are kept inside the owner is FORCED to train the dog but if they are kept in a fenced yard or kennel it would not matter.
Yes the yard area of a chain could become horribly filthy and muddy IF the owner does not clean it up at least every day or IF the chain is so short it can hardly move . But this can happen in a kennel as well.
Yes a chained dog could freeze to death or die from the heat if left outside during severe weather But so could a dog in a fenced yard or a kennel.
Yes a child could wander into your yard and be bitten if the parents of that child were careless enough to allow their child to wander around on the streets. But they could also stick their fingers through your fence or kennels and be bitten and even lose their finger.
Yes a strange dog could wander into your unfenced yard and attack your chained dog that is why you use the chain as a SECONDARY means of confinement.
Yes your chained dog could attack another dog that wandered into you yard but why was that other dog loose in the first place? Also I have seen dumb little dogs dig under someones fenced yard to get to the dog inside of the fence so fenced yards are not cure alls.
Also chained dogs can bark and annoy neighbors but so can kenneld dogs,dogs in fenced yards, dogs in crates,dogs in the house because dogs are dogs regardless of where they are and if they do not have enough interesting things to do they will bark.

Some things to remember if chaining are:
Make sure there is absolutely nothing the dog can become entangled upon. This means NOTHING no trees,no shrubs,no weeds,no fence, no wires,no hose ,pieces of wood etc. including the dog house and any nails that may not be properly nailed down.
Make sure it has a swivel on at least one end of the chain and MAKE sure it works(the flimsy grocery store dog chain swivels and chains do not work and break ,and entangle themselves).
Make sure the dog has a properly fitted nylon buckle collar(no plastic buckles,no choke chains,,no rolled leather etc)
Make sure the dog has a good dog house!this means a floor,a roof with no leaks, two sides a back and a front with a small door hole and some sort of straw material in cold weather and a shade baord attached to the dog house in hot weather. Make sure the dog cannot become entangled in the shade board and make sure he can fully enter the house.
Make sure he has a large water bucket kept full at all times(at least five gallons) and make sure it is securely tied down and that whatever you use to tie it down cannot become entangled in the chain or be chewed through.
The chain needs to be at least seven feed this gives you the same space as a 14by 14 foot run.
Make sure it cannot become entangled on the axle you use to attach the chain to a buried axle is the best but an o-ring setup will work as well.
Don't use an overly heavy chain you don't want to hurt your dogs neck and joints.

The thing is neglecting a dog by not cleaning up after it not,feeding it,not giving it shelter,water,food,excercise,vaccinations etc. is neglect no matter where the dog is kept and a a well cared for dog is a well cared for dog no matter where it is housed(unless it is in a small cage like a puppy mill)
People can tease chained dogs and throw rocks at them but they can do that to fenced and kenneld dogs as well. Yes if the chain breaks they can get out but if the fence falls down,or they dig under it or climb over it they can get out as well.Chained dogs can be stolen but so can dogs in a fence all the people do is cut the fence I have seen it happen before.They could even break a window and steal them out of your car or truck a fence will not stop them.
Don't tie them to trees!
Yes a chain can do seriouse damage if it gets wrapped around a childs leg or neck but what was the child doing in the chain area in the first place?Yes there is a risk of that but that is why you pay attention.
Chaining does not=agression it may equal frustration if never taken off the chain or even fear. I have probably seen a lot more chained dogs than you have and they were not agressive.

I disagree with" if you don't have time to walk them you can just let them out on a tie out to excercise for ten minutes"They do not get excercise just from being on a chain they need to be walked.
If you think locked gates will keep out dog thieves you are mistaken locks can be broken or sawed through.
Also if being snapped back by the chain causes agression then why aren't all those dogs trained with the "JERK and PULL" method agressive to everything. Are they not "Snapped back" whenever they try to get at something as well?

[Guest Anonymous]

While I do agree with quite a few of your points Laduenda, here is what I have to say...

[quote name='laduenda'] I have also seen some horribly neglected ones on chains,in Fences,in kennels,and in crates.[/quote]

Right there, it does depend on the owner mainly... and while we can't save every dog like that, all dogs seen like this should BE REPORTED. If somone can't propperlly care for their dog, they shouldn't have one!

[quote name='laduenda']Yes the neighbors could feed your chained dog antifreeze but they could also do the same thing if your dog had free run in a fenced yard or was kept in a kennel.[/quote]

Next spring, when the ground is unthawed, we are building Hazel a pen she can not see through, there fore, it won't be chain-link, which means people can't exactlly throw things into it... not like they would around here, since all my neighbors take good care (besides them running loose :roll: ) of their dogs, but that's not my point... her pen will be made like this (suggested by a behaviorist BECAUSE she's aggressive though). It will have a roof, probably chain-link (yes, I guess someone could throw poisened food in there over the top, but would you prefer I have it roofed with plywood? So she gets no sun? Besides, I people around here wouldn't go to that extent... don't know about THERE, but here that's how it is) It will be about 2 feet under ground, so she can not dig under, nor can any other dog dig under. It WILL have a lock on it, which I have an identical one for her crate, and the key is kept on a key ring, with me at all times. When we had a cheap pen before (I say cheap, because Hazel was able to escape within a day! :lol: ) I cleaned it every day. Anyway, getting off reply/topic...

[quote name='laduenda']Yes ,your dog could become entangled while on a chain and strangle himself if you are stupid enough to chain them anywhere nezr any objects they could become entangled in,But then again your dog could try to jump your six foot fence and get it's collar or tags caught on the top wire parts of the fence and strangle himself as well. He could also get his tags entangled in the door of the crate and die if crated. Well you may say"Why don't you keep the collar loose enough to slip off?"But then what is the point of having a collar on the dog?You use collars to keep forms of identification on them right ? You would not want them to fall off would you? You would not want the collar to slip off while you were walking your dog near a street and have your dog suddenly get loose and bolt in front of a moving car Would you?[/quote]

I take Hazel's collar off her when she goes in her crate/pen. However, you can NOT do that when tying up a dog now can ya?

[quote name='laduenda']Yes chained dogs can spill their water,but what prevents dogs in kennels or in fenced yards from doing the same?
Yes ,they can spill their food but so can unchained dogs .[/quote]

That's why your supose to attach the food/water to the doghouse/side of pen... I thought you said you do this in a previous post?

[quote name='laduenda']Yes, if dogs are neglected and unsocialized and never pet or walked or played with they can become agressive or overly shy regardless of the yard or chain setup.[/quote]

I agree, however some dogs are aggressive because of the breed too (now you MUST agree with me on that eh?) Hazel's aggression is still really unsure of why... we DO live out in the middle of no where, so unsocialization could be the main cause, however since she was a puppy she was inrolled in obediance/agility classes (she was there for the obediance, and to get use to the equipment, didn't start on the big stuff or jumps until she was a year old of course)

[quote name='laduenda']If they are kept inside the owner is FORCED to train the dog but if they are kept in a fenced yard or kennel it would not matter.[/quote]

A person is not "forced" to do anything! However, unless you want your dog getting into trouble, training is the best solution. And if you don't have the time to train your dog (which is really only 5 minutes out of your day!) then you SHOULDN'T OWN A DOG!!!

[quote name='laduenda']Yes the yard area of a chain could become horribly filthy and muddy IF the owner does not clean it up at least every day or IF the chain is so short it can hardly move . But this can happen in a kennel as well.
Yes a chained dog could freeze to death or die from the heat if left outside during severe weather But so could a dog in a fenced yard or a kennel. [/quote]

I agree, it's another example of the OWNER! People who obviously don't have the "time" to take care of their dog SHOULDN'T OWN ONE!

[quote name='laduenda']Yes a child could wander into your yard and be bitten if the parents of that child were careless enough to allow their child to wander around on the streets. But they could also stick their fingers through your fence or kennels and be bitten and even lose their finger. [/quote]

If the child is too young/ignorent to be sticking its fingers in a dogs pen (which if it's a little kid, it probaly will... what little kid can resist a dog?! :D ) then I agree, the parents shouldn't be so irrisponsible to let their child "run free". If the child is much older, and SHOULD know better then to wander onto SOMEONE ELSE'S property, and go to pet a strange dog, their parnents didn't teach them properlly!!! My parents taught us to ALWAYS ask to pet someone else's dog... however they also said don't talk to strangers! :lol: This always confused me, so I would end up just watching the dog from afar! :lol:

[quote name='laduenda']Yes your chained dog could attack another dog that wandered into you yard but why was that other dog loose in the first place? [/quote]

My neighbor's love their dogs, spoil them rotten! But some people ARE ignorent and don't keep their dog home. My little neighbor started tying up her Dog, Duke on a run (line from one place to another, with rope hanging down ect.) while she was at school (he was inside or with her otherwise) because he was reported wandering on the highway! :-? But then I spotted him in the yard again, and told her he must have gotten lose, she replied "oh no, we stopped tying him up because it's winter!" :roll: I was stunned and told her "uh, snow's not guna stop him from wandering! OBVIOUSLY since I just saw him in our yard!!" She gave it a little thought then replied "I guess your right" so they started tying him again during the winter too.

[quote name='laduenda']Also I have seen dumb little dogs dig under someones fenced yard to get to the dog inside of the fence so fenced yards are not cure alls.[/quote]

I'd prefer it if you didn't say "dumb little dogs", make me think you are NOT a true dog lover... there's no such thing as a DUMB DOG!! But anywho, this is why a PROPER pen should have [i]at least[/i] a foot of the fencing going under ground.

[quote name='laduenda']Also chained dogs can bark and annoy neighbors but so can kenneld dogs,dogs in fenced yards, dogs in crates,dogs in the house because dogs are dogs regardless of where they are and if they do not have enough interesting things to do they will bark.[/quote]

Yes, this is where TRAINING comes in hand! :D

[quote name='laduenda']Some things to remember if chaining are...[/quote]

I agree mainly with your points there...

[quote name='laduenda']The thing is neglecting a dog by not cleaning up after it not,feeding it,not giving it shelter,water,food,excercise,vaccinations etc. is neglect no matter where the dog is kept and a a well cared for dog is a well cared for dog no matter where it is housed(unless it is in a small cage like a puppy mill)[/quote]

I agree, once again, it ALL DEPENDS ON THE OWNER.

[quote name='laduenda']People can tease chained dogs and throw rocks at them but they can do that to fenced and kenneld dogs as well.[/quote]

How does a rock hit a dog if there's a fence around him/her?

[quote name='laduenda']Yes if the chain breaks they can get out but if the fence falls down,or they dig under it or climb over it they can get out as well.[/quote]

If you have a propperlly designed kennel/pen/run this won't happen!

[quote name='laduenda']Chained dogs can be stolen but so can dogs in a fence all the people do is cut the fence I have seen it happen before.They could even break a window and steal them out of your car or truck a fence will not stop them.[/quote]

If a person is THAT desperate to steal your dog, odds are, it's guna be a very rare case. It is much easier for someone to go "click" and take the dog off a chain then it is to cut through wire, break windows, ect. And like I said above, I have a lock on Hazel's crate, and am going to place one on her pen once it's built.

[quote name='laduenda']Yes a chain can do seriouse damage if it gets wrapped around a childs leg or neck but what was the child doing in the chain area in the first place?[/quote]

When Hazel use to be tied up, I got caught around the legs (I have really bad knees too, so it hurt a LOT) many times!! I soon learned (took me a while, guess I'm not that fast a learner! :roll: :lol: ) to step ON the chain when crossing it, like you do with a gag-line (I think that's what it's called) for a dog sled. If you have a "propper" setting up for the chain, this would mean the dishes are attached to the dog house right? So how do you get out to the dishes without crossing through the dog's "chain area"? Not only children can get caught ya know, you could too!

[quote name='laduenda']Chaining does not=agression it may equal frustration if never taken off the chain or even fear. I have probably seen a lot more chained dogs than you have and they were not agressive.[/quote]

I didn't say that... if you read up, I said that an AGGRESSIVE DOG WHO IS TIED WILL BECOME MORE AGGRESSIVE!

[quote name='laduenda']If you think locked gates will keep out dog thieves you are mistaken locks can be broken or sawed through.[/quote]

Some pretty determined dog theives ya know there? I think it would probably be less effort to just go out and steal a dog that doesn't have a home!

[quote name='laduenda']Also if being snapped back by the chain causes agression then why aren't all those dogs trained with the "JERK and PULL" method agressive to everything. Are they not "Snapped back" whenever they try to get at something as well?[/quote]

ONCE AGAIN, I didn't say that... I Said that [b]an aggressive dog will become MORE aggressive when on a chain.[/b]

[Guest Anonymous]

Ok, i never tried to say chaining or kenneling was better one way or the other. Im trying to say that neither is right if you neglect the dog and neither is wrong if it is propley cared for.
MOUSEATHESEATTLEBUSSTOP-I never said I was talking about myself :x
I probaly take better of my dogs than most people in the entirety of my town. We have no animal control or Humane society here, so people basically do whatever they want. :cry:
Yes, most people care for their dogs LESS then I do, Thank You!!!
You don't know me, my dogs, or how I treat, care for and keep them.

And not ALL chained dogs are aggressive, I rarely meet an aggressive APBT and the hundreds of dogs I know most are kept on chains.

I have looked at the My Contract Thread- And 1 hour a day is insane for a dog. How could someone be so heartless. I think 3 hours is BARE MINNIMUM, and that is once in a blue moon. Like if you did work 8 hours a day got home at 4 and had a 5:00 doctors appointment for your child and it is an hour one way and 2 hours for test. that puts you getting home at 9:00. But it is still your responsibilty to get out to the dogs, and this is one of those times to get up extra early to care for them sicne you wont have time during the day.

The reason I started this Thread was to get peoples opinion/feelings on chaining dogs and to exprees my own. And how I feel that chaining and kenneling is all the same if you don't care for the dog, then you don't care for it. And I know house dogs that are badly miss treated and neglect, even untrained.

AS for as me, it would be irresponsible for me to have my dogs running loose in the yard or a kennel. (Well even on a open yard with a chain isnt smart for me to do.) They are not left unsupervised together, they dig under, climb over, or go straight through chain link. They are at risk of getting stolen. Other animals can be hurt if they(my dogs) are not properly contained. Which means that even if the other dogs arent properly contained atleast mine are and my dogs cant get to them.

[color=red]I think 7 feet of chain is WAY TOO SHORT, IMO!! [/color]10ft is the minimum and that is for temperary or in limited space 15-20ft is better. And a 6x8 is also tiny!!!! I can't beleive someone would confine their dog to such a small area. 10x10 is minimum. :evil:

[Guest Anonymous]

I have. More than one hundred of them(not in the same yard of course).

[color=red]I though you only had 7 APBTs and 2 malinios??????[/color]

[Horsefeathers!]

[quote name='laduenda']Well I genuinly think that these people have NEVER seen a well cared for dog that was chained. [/quote]


Well, for once, you're right. I have NEVER seen a well cared for dog that is chained. "Well cared for dog that is chained" would actually be considered an oxymoron, IMO.


The rest of that post read to me something like... "Blah blah blah people do worse things... blah blah blah who needs fencing... blah mumble mutter... who needs training when you can just chain them up... blah blah blah..."

People can and will say ANYTHING to justify what they want to do. Pedophiles and people involved in domestic violence often rationalize that they only molest/beat/abuse their victims because they "love" them. Kinda like people who believe that they "love" their dogs enough to "keep them safe" by chaining them (and we are talking about a lifetime on a chain... not as in a temporary solution). Go figure what people will come up with to justify doing what they want to do.

[courtnek]

laduenda

everything you said is valid - if the owners dont take care of the dog it doesnt matter what kind of confinement they have. However, the chain run keeps the chain off the ground, providing less means of tangling.

I used it with Jarvis before I had a house. He was perfectly happy with it.
It gave him a limited run room without escaping or entagling. I mentioned this only because some people dont/cant have fenced in yards. This is a viable solution for that situation. I will never agree that they should stay out all day, either with a chain or a chain run. As was mentioned before, it leaves them vulnerable to ignorant neighbors, children and other dogs.

To stay out all day, they need a yard, safe, secure, fenced. And as mentioned, a place of warmth and safety to retreat to. And depending on the weather, maybe not out all day at all. They're not wolves anymore.
They no longer have the capability to survive the odds. Using other peoples poor maintenacne standards as a reason for yours doesnt work.
laduenda - it is 9 degress out here now in my town - even with a doghouse, is that fair to them??? wind chill is -10....and it would have to be SOME doghouse to keep out the wind...my labbies are in the house - safe, and warm!

You have to think of what is best for the dog. Not you, not the neighbors, not the situation - THE DOG

[Guest Anonymous]

you are all dancing around the same issue. Yes dogs can be chained and still be taken cared of properly, its just that by design (some breeds more than others) dogs should be inside with thei owners primarily. As for the APBT it should definately be n inside dog they are far to nice and trusting and with all the bad press i would actually be afraid someone would do something to my dog not that my dog would do something to someone else. anyway its the whole out-of-sight out-of-mind thing, if you are running short of time your dog is outside and can easily be ignored "until tommorow" but you have a full schedule tomorrow so, this weekedn for sure but then a day becomes a week and then a month and then you are so used to just feeding and occassionally walking your dog the training has stopped. then when you do decide to bring him/her inside they act horridly and are put back outside for that, but guess what its your fault for not teaching your dog inside manners and now that it is so big you dont want to try and that is how a dog gets limited to being outside, and only comes in only when it is bitter cold and then they are in a crate the entire time. Does that sound like a happy well-cared for dog to you?

You see? the point that we are stressing is yes it is possible but the vast majority of people think that just keeping the area clean and the dog fed means well-taken care of, there is more to a happy good mannered dog ta a full water and food bowl, and some clean dirt. My dogs main purpose is companion and family guardian. there is no way to protect anything but that patch of dirt if they are on a chain. There is no way to provide companionship from the backyard either.
:black:

[Guest Anonymous]

Yes I do tie my water dishes down. The hundreds of dogs I was reffering to are the dogs of variouse different breeders that I have visited,I did not just go out and buy the first dogs I saw I looked around and researched the lines a lot (among other things).
I do see your point. You believe every dog should be inside with it's family and if you are properly watching it and supervising it while it is outside in the yard you will not have a problem with theft etc... You are right.
My point was that if a dog is left unattended and unsupervised anywhere those same things could happen regardless of wether it is on a chain or in a fence etc..
Yes a wooden fence or a brick wall would prevent a lot of those things that were mentioned but not everyone has a wooden fence or a brick wall and I guess a determined dog could probably eat through a wooden one.
Also I was not taking into consideration the severity of the weather where some of you live it never gets that cold here but I still bring them in when the weather is bad.If It is that cold where you live then I agree the dog should NOT be left outside even during the day Or very hot for that matter in phoenix AZ it gets up to the triple digits THAT is too hot for any dog but that is another reason why I live here it is kind of in between.
Any ways I do undertsand you points of view and I agree that the majority of dog owners who chain do not care for there dog and the dog is the one that ultimately suffers when the owners can no longer deal with an untrained ,unsocialized, "Crazy" animal and they take them to the pound where their chances of being adopted are very slim for the same above reasons.
Also I was not reffering to anything any of you specifically said just the general points that people make about chaining.
Just so all of you know I got that part of my contract and the part about the electric fencing from a wolf hybrid book, I just added a few things that I wanted to add. I just wanted something that stated the bare minimum amounts of care required by law. I want to be able to take that dog back if it does not have AT LEAST that amount of care. I agree that 1 hour is very little especially if they only have one dog but I doubt the LAW would mandate them to keep the dogs inside at all times except when supervised etcc. I wanted something that would stand up in court. I am going to contact a lawer and see what changes need to be made for it to be legal. Also I have been looking around at other breeders contracts and I WILL be changing mine I am still looking at more though and getting a better idea of what it should state. I am pretty new to the Computer world and most of the info. I got on contracts has been from books, not actual breeders.

Also The dogs that I have seen that were neglected etc.. I did report. Please don't think I condone letting people starve their animals,beat them,neglect them shelter or food,or keep them in filthy conditions. If I see any of those things or If I see their dog running loose ever I will report them. Regardless of the breed or who the owners are.

[avaloniaboerboele]

[quote]I have. More than one hundred of them(not in the same yard of course). [/quote]

HOLY COW.....100 dogs Laduenda??????

NO BREEDING PROGRAM OF ANY SORT WILL JUSTIFY THE KEEPING OF SO MANY DOGS, EVEN WITH THE IDEA IN MIND OF CREATING A NEW BLOODLINE. EVEN IF YOU HAVE THREE DIFFERENT TYPES OF DOGS IT DOESNT ADD UP.

Maybe to produce a Zillion pups in 48 hours???
Something is stinking :evil:

And to anybody who have an animal who is intelligent, confident, protective, loyal, fearless, obedient, affectionate, etc (called a dog), HOW IN FREAKIN HELL CAN YOU CHAIN IT UP OR SHOVE IN A CELL??? You people exspect a creation of The Higher Hand to be brainwashed and tortured and still keep a level head?????????????????For petes SAkes - wake up and get a few braincells :evil: :evil:

[Guest Anonymous]

I forgot to add that yes it would be easier for them to go out and steal a homeless dog. But you must realize that Apbt's are a target of theft even more so than other breeds.Because the lowlife people who steal dogs are more attracted to this breed than others. Granted any breed can be a target of theft. But lots of people have contacted me to be on the look out because some dog theives cut their fence and stole their dogs,or jumped over their brick wall etc..
Yes that could have been prevented had the dog been left inside the home while the family was not at home so it is partly their fault.

[Guest Anonymous]

Your right I should not have said dumb little dogs. I should have said dumb owners little dog. I see where you guys arre getting confused you think I meant "I have ,over a hundred dogs" But I was trying to say that I have seen over a hundred dogs on chains owned by different people at different times in my life that were all well cared for. Nobody could care for that many animals.LOL.

[Guest Anonymous]

Yes shelter workers but there are more than one of them at any given time caring for the dogs in the shelters.

[Guest Anonymous]

Every possible point has been made and countered repeatedly. lets just agree to disagree. no matter how much anti-chain people argue pro-chain people are not going to say that they are wrong, and they shouldnt have to. I think we have all seen a few to many episodes of Animal precint and Animal cops. Not everyone that chains does so irresponsibly. The ones that do are probably not the ones that take time from their day to log onto Dogo and talk about it, either. Just the fact that they are here says something about them and their heart. they are here taking a bit of abuse from us and yet they continue to come back, there are plenty of boards out there that are pro-chaining, fighting and abuse. lets just be glad they are here with us then with them. Beyond a little squabble over practices and contracts we are all dog-people, some of us have all the time in the world to dedicate to a dog others of us have schedules and lives that cant be so inclusive that doesnt make them anyless lovers of their dogs though. Lets try to come together and have some positives from our intereactions. And I for one want more topics on BULLIES and a whole heck of a lot more PICS.

:black:

[Poofy]

oh thank god...I was getting a headache.

[Guest Anonymous]

K I know what you were trying to say but I did not want to get into another long discussion about my personal opinion and breeding practices.

My point in posting that was not to say whether it is right or wrong to chain or to change anyones opinions. I just wanted to state that many things that were said about chaining could also happen in a fence or kennel or whatever due to the lack of supervision and not the chain itself. But any ways enough with it I was not the one who originally posted on this subject anyways.

[Guest Anonymous]

So, do we all agree to disagree, and love dogs? :)

[Shannon_C]

[quote name='Michele']LADUENDA: dumb little dogs??????...no dog is dumb..owners are dumb.....[/quote]

Well said. Dogs are the most intelligent animals on this earth.....an untrained dog has more brains than us humans who have to learn about life in school......without learning.......where would we be. Its like a magic thing with dogs, it just comes naturally....just like other animals. Yes if only dogs could talk.....who knows what words would come out.....they wouldnt be nice I can tell you for those who are treated bad.
They are the most loving, affectionate and intelligent animals a human could have. They are always there for us whether we are sad or happy. They bring life into this world and are the best medicine around for someone depressed or feeling low.
So chaining a dog up is like chaining a person up for the rest of its life........they have feelings like us and need to be close to there loved ones....not just left outside with no social life in the cold.....most dogs have shelter others dont.....how would a human being feel if that was them....and besides whether the dog is tied up or not......what if someone were to burgle or even worse attack the family......what could there dog do being outside (NOTHING) except possibly bark.....annoying the neighbours.
I wonder about people who allow this kind of thing to happen (was it for the dogs intentions or there own) let you figure that one out!