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Obedience Classes

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Guest Anonymous
Okay I think I have finally gotten to the point I just can't take it anymore.. I have been so patient up until now.. I have holes ripped in my bed spread (Note: this is the third bedspread now that we have gone through), My Fiance has a chair that has been nawwed on, She lost a Pillow, a Ring box, and the list is still going.

We got Isabelle some of those little Chew Bones, there was like 8 in a package.. God those things kept her entertained for an entire day.

The thing about it is, we took Isabelle over to her Moms house for the weekend, and they couldn't stand her, they said she is completely wild.. She jumps on people she ate there bed spread too.. We can't keep giving her toys because she ends up eating through the rubber :-(..

So with that being said.. Im not sure what to do here.. My Parents say she is the wrong dog for us.. I don't think she is.. I just think she is being puppy like..

Which reminds me.. We ran across two dogs over the weekend.. absolutely adorable... one was like a Bagle.. BIG Floppy ears.. the other one looked like a little Taco bell Dog.. We gave them a bunch of food because they both looked like stray dogs.. Im kicking myself in the butt now because we just let them go.. Didn't take them in or anything.. I felt so bad, but they just walked off and were together through the rest of the apartment complex.. ::sigh::

Anywho.. What should we do about Isabelle wrecking the house and constantly jumping on people, she is at the Vets office today.. They suggest Obedience, that will help correct the jumping on people.. She said some dogs, just will not listen though no matter how much you train them.. My qustion for everyone is.. Do we have too hyper of a dog.. Will OBedience correct this?

Can someone PLEASE Help before I go crazy.. :ghost_2:

Please :Help_2:

Thanks
KEvin

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RUN, DO NOT WALK, TO AN OBEDIENCE CLASS! Make sure they are a positive reinforcement based class, NOT punishment based. Dogs do NOT come pre-trained or with instinctive knowledge of how we expect them to behave. The more you work with Isabelle, the better she will (most likely) act. Bonding with and training a dog is an ongoing process, you don't do it once and figure its done. Therefore I would plan on continuing Isabelles education beyond beginners obedience. I cannot stress this enough, until Isabelle is VERY trustworthy, she SHOULD NOT HAVE ACCESS to ANYTHING she might chew! Not only is it irritating to you to have her destroy your stuff, it could be very dangerous to her. If she elects to swallow parts of that bedspread, or other fabric, if she chews on hard plastic items that splinter, even wood that splinters, so much can be dangerous to a dedicated chewer. She does have a sturdy crate doesn't she?
I think it will take time for Isabelle to mature, it is ENTIRELY up to you to determine now how much you are willing to invest in her timewise and training wise. If you are willing to take on the challenge, and I do believe she will be a challenge, the rewards will of course be well worth it. It will take a fair amount of committment on your part, consider this.
Remind me how old is Isabelle? Is she spayed yet?

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I forgot to suggest, tire that dog out! A tired dog is a good dog! :D
She is young and has a huge amount of energy, do you have a fenced yard or do you take her out for LONG walks? She needs exercise, not to the point of exhaustion but to take the edge off and to help her relax. She's full of jumping beans!

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Guest Anonymous
Yep Isabelle has a Very Sturdy Crate, its solid Metal and shes not getting out of that one :).. Nor will it collapse or anything like that.

She has been spayed, she has all of her shots, and she is back in the Vet today for her second round of shot (Rabies and Distemperment?)..

Anyways, I am willing to work with her as much as it takes and Im not looking at it as giving up.. Its just.. Its hard work.. And it scares me that the Vet says some animals are just not capable of doing the training thing..

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Guest Anonymous
Right now we don't have a yard for her, she is in an apartment, We do take her for walks probally not as long as we should but we take her out.. Witht he Cold Weather its hard to take her out as much as she'd like us too.. But you're right she does need tired out.. I do agree there,

By the way.. I did pick up one of these Clicker things from Petsmart.. Is this useful, how effective is it?

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I'm not sure why this 'vet' said some dogs cannot be trained? I firmly believe ALL dogs can be trained, sometimes we have to be creative to determine what works best for individual dogs but they CAN be trained. Ok, maybe if the dog was a total psychopath or had some serious temperament (nasty) type issues, sounds to me like Isabelle is just young and full of energy.
Kevin, I really do feel for you, my girls have regressed a bit recently, I'm hoping its just been too cold for them to want to be outside so they've been 'entertaining' themselves more inside. One day I went to the grocery store, was only gone about 35 minutes, when I came home, I discovered I had neglected to put the baby gate in the kitchen doorway. Trash ALL OVER THE LIVING ROOM! AARRGGHH!
So "I" am taking a little refresher is making sure doors are closed, doorway is blocked, stuff is picked up etc. It IS most likely going to take a lifelong awareness on your part to know what will tempt Isabelle and to keep it out of her reach. Of course I do believe with training and maturity she WILL settle down a good bit.

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Oh yeah, the clicker, I love it for the girls. Jesse HATES it so I dont use it with him.
The first thing you can do with the clicker is condition her to the fact that the clicker means a treat and/or praise is coming.
So have a handful of little bitty treats in one hand, the clicker in the other. You can have the hand with the clicker by your side, don't put it right in her face at first as it might startle her. Get her attention, click and treat. As long as she does not flinch and duck her head like my boy does, continue. Do this several times. Once you see where she associates the click with a treat or praise, you can start shaping her behaviour with it.
For instance, work on a 'LEAVE IT' command using the clicker when she does the RIGHT thing. Timing is important but don't stress if it does not feel smooth right away. You want to click when you see the desired behaviour, not a minute later and not before you actually see the correct response.
You could try a little session of 'leave it' with her. Put her on leash, have clicker and treats. If she will go for something forbidden on her own, correct her with a 'LEAVE IT' perhaps a mild leash pop, as soon as she looks to you, click and treat. If she is focused on you, you might need to show her a forbidden item, hold the object up to her, if she touches it or even sniffs at it, say LEAVE IT, as soon as she looks to you, click and treat. Start slow, don't overwhelm her too soon. One of the keys to success in ANY training program is consistancy. It is NEVER ok for her to have things in her mouth that she is not allowed to chew on. Use the same command for the same desired behaviour. Does she know some obedience? Will she sit on command? You can certainly reinforce her with the clicker if so. This will help tie it all together for her.
I'll see if I can also find some online clicker resources.

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That vet sounds like a MORON. ( No offense) But, I had a dog that everyone called "untrainable". Funny thing is that she did end up getting 3 perfect scores (200 points) in obedience in fun matches. And when she was shown in AKC, she won her class all 3 times and was high in trial once with a 198.5. And this was with a 13yo showing her! (ME)

It just takes patience and a LOT of work. But it is VERY worth it. Also, like Carol said, Keep her away from thing she can chew. I have had dogs (of my own) since 1979 and have NEVER had anything destroyed by them. Because they are watched like hawks and are NEVER allowed to run amok(ap) in the house unsupervised when they are puppies. Just keep at it, she will grow up soon enough. :D

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Sounds like your doing the right things. Do go to obedience. I've never tried a clicker they sound like a good idea and could make for some fun games as well.
One further clarification:
When you are not home or cannot watch her put her in the crate, the rest of the time, as Black GSD said, watch her like a hawk. Remember a puppy is like a baby or toddler, they need constant supervision. You wouldn't leave a 2 yr old home alone or even out of your site. Your dog and most other young dogs just doesn't have the development or training to be out of your site. (Of course unlike a baby you can put them in a crate when you go to the store.)

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Guest Anonymous
Well, I think Im pretty much on my own on this one.. See Isabelle reacts differently around my fiance as well as myself, With me she jumps on me and she will go crazy for a second, Ill stand totally still and she will sit down and look at me, and or bark sometimes.. At that point I pet her and say good girl if she jumps again I pursue my previous action.

With my Fiance on the other hand, she will jump and jump and jump and basically claw the heck out of her until she gets a reaction.

With me She eaten through 2 comforters and 1 sheet and a couple of socks.. With My Fiance, she has managed to chew clothes, chairs, pillows.. etc..

Is it even possible for a dog to treat one persons things one way and the other persons another way?

I dunno My Fiance just considers her being dumb.. I look at the dog and would like to work with her.. But I don't know if I have it in me or what and plus I need a partner to work with me on it.. because both us have to tackle it at once right?

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It's possible that Isabelle is quite intelligent which may in part account for her need to be busy and have proper stimulation. She gets bored, she gets destructive. Goes back to a tired dog is a good dog.
It would certainly help if your fiance gets involved in the training, Isabelle NEEDS to see the both of you has her source of all good things as well as alpha to her. While she may favor one person over the other and will act somewhat differently to each of you, sane behaviour should be expected for everyone. You may need to assist your fiance but should sweetly insist that SHE play the game too. The leash can be a good tool here also, put it on Isabelle, have fiance approach, Isabelle goes nuts, you simply prevent Isabelle from touching or scratching fiance, fiance calmly insists that Isabelle sit, FIANCE rewards Isabelle-calmly. If Isabelle goes nuts again, repeat. Everyone stay calm and stick with it.

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Have you tried kneeing her in the chest when she jumps on you? This is something your fiance can do even if you are not there to correct the dog. I am NOT saying kick the dog folks (I feel flames coming). Just raise your knee when she starts to jump and don't say anything. That way SHE is doing it to herself. Be warned though that if you try this she is liable to try to jump on your back. BUT, little do they realive that feet go backwards too. :D This doesn't work on little dogs or small puppies, but is great for teenagers of the larger breeds.

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Guest Anonymous
[quote name='Black GSD']Have you tried kneeing her in the chest when she jumps on you? This is something your fiance can do even if you are not there to correct the dog. I am NOT saying kick the dog folks (I feel flames coming). Just raise your knee when she starts to jump and don't say anything. That way SHE is doing it to herself. Be warned though that if you try this she is liable to try to jump on your back. BUT, little do they realive that feet go backwards too. :D This doesn't work on little dogs or small puppies, but is great for teenagers of the larger breeds.[/quote]

Maybe I should try this with Kika. You can't walk in the door with out her front paws dirtying up your jeans.... :roll: Even if you were gone 5 minutes.

She's small though.

I'm trying to "ignore" her and them make her sit first, but now she's got Kenzo jumping as well. :roll:

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Guest Anonymous
Actually she's too small to do the knee to the check.. I actually tried one time but it didn't effect her.. See.. I have found the best thing to do is to just stand there with my hands behind my back.. She does sit down and look at me and I reach down to pet her but she jumps again.. I repeat the steps.. She keeps jumping after a while.. I think she thinks its a game because she begins to bark after a while.. Like She will sit down and bark and each time I keep reaching down to pet her she tries to jump back up..

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Another method I read about and even tried is when the dog jumps up on you, take each front paw into your hands. Do NOT pinch, twist, pull on the paws. Just hold them gently but firmly. Do NOT let the dog go, do not correct the dog, don't say a word. Dog will not like this, dog will struggle, unless dog twists body so as to hurt herself, do not let go for a brief time. When you let go, tell dog to sit. Verbally praise but don't touch yet. If she jumps up again, repeat the above. Supposedly this is another way for the dog to learn that her OWN actions put her in a position she does not like.
I actually do let my dogs jump up on me but they learned to do so with some respect and restraint, no wild leaping and clawing and bopping me in the face! I do NOT like my dogs to jump on others without permission so I use a 'no jump' command.
If there are times when it's ok for Isabelle to jump on you, it will be a bit harder to teach her not to but you could try an 'ok jump' and a 'no jump' to help her know.

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Guest Anonymous
So Check this out.. I got some tricks rolling out like crazy.. Im working on this with her little doggy treats.. I got her to sit down.. I tell her paw she hands me her paw.. :-).. Right now Im working on laying down.. Although Im trying to mix them up because I want her to work on remembering it by command not chain of events.

The clicker training worked like a charm also. I started to click (only once) and as soon as she responded I would give her a treat, she would leave the room and I would click again and she would come running in and get a treat.. I guess the next question is, is where do I go from here, I would like to teach her not to beg at meal time, Ive tried to give her a bone so that would make her more occupied and she didn't seem too interested in that while we have human food out. Any ideas? Can clickers come in handy here?

also.. When does a dog start to do tricks WITHOUT treats? Right now I think she is kind of stubborn on this.

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New to board, been lurking a lot, and felt the need to post on this one.

[url]http://www.dogproblems.com/[/url]

This site offers no-nonsense (not for the faint of heart) information on how to teach the dog to behave properly. Now I am sure that I will start out getting flamed for this, but I feel that the Site has a bunch of good information and dozens of professional trainers that will give you advice.

I have a 5 month old akita puppy that I have trained using purely positive methods and supplimenting with these methods when problems arose...(like when the akita decided to ask "Why should I..."). Everyone compliments his perfect manners and obedience.

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Guest Anonymous
Welcome Kaleb,
I've been to the site you suggested many times ~ he talks a lot of sense and it works. Have fun with your Akita, beaut dogs.

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[quote name='Kaleb124'] Now I am sure that I will start out getting flamed for this, but...


I have a 5 month old akita puppy that I have trained using purely positive methods and supplimenting with these methods when problems arose...(like when the akita decided to ask "Why should I..."). Everyone compliments his perfect manners and obedience.[/quote]

You bet your sweet patootie yer gonna get flamed :x !!! How dare you come here and preach positive training and such?! Anything less than slapping these buggers around, choking them down and showing them who's boss 'n stuff is not tolerated. What do you mean, putting the smackdown on them isn't the best way to train? Positive methods indeed. Hmph!
:lol:

I'll check that site out. My Standard Poodle is doing absolutely beautifully with obedience except for that jumping up thing. Holding his feet only makes him think I want to dance. He isn't a "mauler," just likes to stand with his front feet on my (or any passing stranger's) shoulders or chest (maybe he was meant to be a circus Poodle? :-? ).

I've tried turning my back to him, giving him the cold shoulder, ignoring him... it doesn't matter. He has the patience of a Saint and is perfectly willing to stand indefinitely with his feet propped on my shoulders. Doesn't paw or anything... just stands. I am familiar with the knee to the chest thing, but I'm just not willing to try it with him. One thing is he recently had a major abdominal surgery and I am just way paranoid about bumping him at all (his innards are all wonky). Besides that, this dog is so totally "emotional" that if I so much as nudged him in the chest when he jumped, I might as well kick the bejeezus out of him because I know he'd take it that way. This dog does not respond well at all to ANY kind of negative reinforcement, but will do ANYTHING at all to please. Now how can I get him to see that having all fours on the floor is a good thing? It's not so much that *I* mind, though I do make him get down just because I don't want him thinking it's ok, but not every passing little old blue haired lady is going to appreciate him propping up on them. He is almost able to be trusted off leash, except that he wants to jump up on anyone who *might* pay him some attention. Can you see him climbing all over some poor wheelchair bound nursing home resident?:-?


That's just me rambling. I'll check out that trainers' site. Gotta be something I can do to make it a more attractive option to keep all fours on the ground.

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Horsefeathers -- I think you misinterpreted my post. The site that I posted teaches people who have a problem dog how to give the dog a correction in a way that the dog understands. It is not a purely positive site.

I do, however, train my dog using positive methods, BUT when he decides to question me he gets a correction. The correction may be a mild as me saying "ahah.." or it may be a harsh and a strong pop with the leash...and he does wear a prong collar.

Knowing myself, I knew I wanted a dog in the house, I wanted a dog that would go to work with me every day, and I also knew that there was a lot that I would not tolerate. Having an akita before, I also know that akitas are very strong willed, determined, intelligent, dominant, and even aggressing given the right circumstances. I knew that if I wanted my new puppy to be able to do all of the things that I wanted, I had to begin training him the day I got him. So, I did. However, it was not long that he began to question my authority (for lack of a better word). So I began to research about dog behavior and body language. I also began to use corrections. When he did something wrong (like tackle the cat and began biting and chewing) he got a harsh correction. So he learned that biting and chewing the cat was not fun. This is how and why he knows how to behave. I corrected him for the things I would not allow, and I praised / treated him for the things I wanted.

Please don't misunderstand me and think that I bought this puppy and immediately fitted him with a prong collar because I did not. In the beginning, my angry voice was enough to scare the begeeses out of him. As he has gotten older though my corrections have had to get tougher. He is a proud, confident puppy (53 pound puppy) but he looks to me to guidance and he obeys.

He of course will make a lier out of me, turn into a little monster, and I will be begging you all for answers. Today, however, is a good day.

:bday:

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Guest Anonymous
Oh, hey, I think Horsefeathers was just being sarcastic. She's good at that, and makes most of us laugh! You just need to get to know her to understand that she's sarcastic. :wink:

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