Needing to Vent

[Guest Anonymous]

:evil: :evilbat: :evil:
Through links on TLC's website I found the A.R.P.I. who keep their forum on the USABreeders forum. Call me naive, but I had not previously heard of this registry. I am shocked and appalled. Now I agree that there are problems with the AKC, a lot of things I would like to see them change (mainly health checks being a requisite for breeding). But the APRI supports breeders rights to sell to petstores. I feel like I need a bath just from viewing their loathsome site.

Here is one quote from their FAQ:[quote]We believe pet stores and the pet owners they serve have a right to exist. Many in other registry breed clubs believe their registry should refuse to register any dog sold through a pet store or by anyone not accepted into one of their show clubs, and they have proposed that time after time. In fact, that was one of the major concerns that spurred the founding of APRI.[/quote]

And another:[quote]Some simply deny registration of any dog or cat sold through a pet store even if that pet carries registration papers. While most currently grudgingly accept for registration the animals sold through pet stores, the possibility of that changing is very real and always present. Also, other proposals that would severely limit the supply of purebred puppies and kittens available to the pet-loving public are constantly being made by and to various registry services to restrict the breeding and registration of cats and dogs. If these proposals had become policy before APRI's inception, there would have been no time to organize an effective, reputable alternative registration service. The industry needed it's own registry service well established before a catastrophe, and, fortunately it has achieved this with America's Pet Registry.[/quote]

This makes me physically ill.....A breed registry dedicated to preserving the rights of puppymills and petstores.

And another quote:[quote]APRI offers free dual registrations on dogs from reputable registration services to professional breeders. We classify a professional breeder as one who has three or more breeding females and who regularly sells puppies in the pet market.[/quote]

Ahhh good heavenly night in the morning--you get benefits if you pump out the pups! I don't know about the rest of you, but I am so filled with rage I am literally shaking! Here is the link for any of you who were like me and had no idea such a thing existed [url]http://www.aprpets.org/[/url]

I am sorry to bother you guys with this but I just needed a place to vent.

Later,
Trinity

[TLCPETS]

Sorry you feel this way.I do still have AKC priviledges but have not used them since our accident.APRI is growing at about 14,000 registrations per month.You and others may disagree with my choice but it is my choice.[url]http://www.tlcpets.com/luveapri.html[/url]
I do intend to start showing through APRI in the near future.

[Guest Anonymous]

Does the AKC allow breeders to sell to petshops?

[Guest Anonymous]

Allow yes, condone and issue statements of support.....hardly. The ARPIs own words imply that it was fear of the eventual banning of registering pets sold in pets stores that was one of their primary factors in setting up their registry (Quote #2 in my above post) Absolutely unconscionable and reprehensible.

Later,
Trinity

[TLCPETS]

Yes, most brokers pay more for AKC registered puppies going to pet shops.
So, the registry can not guarantee quality since they are only a registry.

[yellowlabsrule]

:mad:

[Guest Anonymous]

Trinity, I'm back up on my soapbox. It all goes back to try educating people about responsible breeders. Most people who think it's time to get a dog and want a certain breed have no idea about byb's, brokers, millers or buying from a petstore. They do think because it says AKC registered means it's a good dog. Can't blame AKC for this because if the sire and dam are registered, then the pups can be registered. CKC and all these new regestery clubs are coming in the back door and take advantage of unsuspecting prospective dog owners. Sure, some of their activities such as obedience trials, agility type trials, etc. are pretty good, but their standards are lower. You will see anything in their conformation shows, dogs you will hardly recognize the breed. I know of no reputable breeders who belong to them. I tried so hard with a friend of a friend who found a boxer litter on the net. I did a little checking and these dogs were not AKC registered, they were the longest nosed boxers I've ever seen, extremely poor quality. This person kept saying well the people were so nice on the phone, and the mother is 5 and this will be her last litter. After I did the checking, these people were not the breeders, and the pups had come from a broker. The white pups in the litter were being marketed as rare and being sold at 4 times the cost of what a reputable breeder will let whites & checks go for, as they are bound by ethics to only sell whites & checks for the cost of shots, docking, food, etc. I agree, it's very sad to see these pop-up regesteries taking advantage of unethical practices, and it's the dogs that have to suffer, so I preach, preach, preach and say the same thing over and over.

[Black GSD]

Well isn't that just lovely. (Said with discust). What a JOKE! Not only the junk mentioned by others, but apparently they will give papers to anything. On the "List of breeds", what the heck is an American Blue Heeler. Sounds to me like an ACD mix mutt. Another "recoginzed" breed is "Hound Dog". It also says, "Additional canine and feline breeds added as breeders demand". So basically any mutt that "Joe Public" wants to breed can now get papers.
These people should be :2gunfire:.

[TLCPETS]

Yes ,GSD I think any-breed can be registered but APRI registered dogs have to have a link back to AKC stud books unlike the others.Think for a minuite if DDAL wins her suit against USDA there will be few breeders left.I do not think there will be enough breeders left to keep AKC afloat.AKC is now losing litter and registration applications by the 1,000s each month.The first judge has already ruled ALL breeders should be licensed by the animal welfare act.It is now just a matter of time until the appeal judges give a final ruling.When USDA was taking comments last year there was 30,000 wanting EVERY breeder regulated by USDA and 4,800 against breeders being regulated by USDA.The regulations are very hard and I think about 80% of hobby breeders could not abide by them.Could AKC have the power they have now
if this goes through.All joking aside AKC did try to sway the first judge but she said AKC was not involved only DDAL and USDA.At this time we are awaiting the decision of the appeals judges.At the first hearing USDA said they were in the process of a RULE-MAKING change.DOES ANY ONE KNOW WHAT THAT MEANT?????

[TLCPETS]

Wake up and smell the coffee.You are the very reason DDAL sued USDA.Think about it.Commercial breeders are already covered by USDA regulations.If this passes if you have over 3 females you will be under USDA or no longer a breeder.Next time it will be every litter will have to be under USDA to be sold.USDA is not easy.Changes are coming.Change is a fact of life.JMO.

[Guest Anonymous]

Waking up and smelling the coffee does not involve joining a breed registry that espouses the principles of people who sell their pups to pet stores.


Trinity

[TLCPETS]

O.K. DDAL,PETA,AND HSUS did not join forces to get commercial breeders regulated by USDA.They already are.IF this goes through they know that 80% of the show/hobby breeders can not meet the minimum standards set by USDA.
HOW strong will that leave AKC??????AKC fights for rights which if they were not very strong breeders would have a very hard time fighting.If they win and weaken AKC.Will AKC fold from lack of funds?Lots of questions at this time.I had rather be prepared.At least APRI requires AKC stud books unlike the others.APRI also cares about the customer/breeder.
APRI is growing AKC is shrinking and without hobby/show breeders AKC could become very small.JMO.

[Guest Anonymous]

The AKC can be a small as it happens they become and it still doesn't justify the loathsomeness of a registry with the principles I see the A.R.P.I spewing. So what if the AKC becomes smaller? What does that have to do with registering pups through this registry? A new registry is going to fold before the AKC does. Just doesn't compute.

Trinity

[TLCPETS]

How does it compute????APRI is growing by 14,000 litter/puppy/dog registrations per month and AKC is shrinking br about that number.Are you asleep??Could/would you be willing and able to be regulated by USDA??
The registry is beside the point.AKC has registered pet shop puppies for years and still does for that matter.The registry has nothing to do with a puppies quality.You should read the High Volume Committees report on AKC's website.It seems now they think commercial breeders have state of the art facilities.Strange, since last year they had a GUT AVERSION to some of the best facilities in the USA.

[Poofy]

I tell ya what...I really don't care what registry some one uses, as long as the welfare of the dog is what is met. And those who don't think that AKC supports commercial breeders, is kidding yourself. AKC now classifies any one who breeds, seven or more litters a year, as a high volume breeder. Wether the b*tch is actually on your property or your co-owner's is beside the point, or if you have a toy breed that gives 1-2 pups a litter is beside the point...you are still considered high volume...and way to many breeders, judges, and handlers will find themselves under the same classification as the commericial breeders...almost seems to me that AKC wants you under that classification.
If the DDAL gets what they want, it will make the hobby breeder exstinct. I don't think people realize the danger here. Did you know it is AGAINST the USDA rules to have breeding animals in your home? Thats right, no whelping puppies by your bed is allowed. You will *HAVE* to house your dogs, just like the commercial breeders, or be in contempt of the rules and regulations of the USDA. This type of regulation will also make the cost of dogs sky-rocket, and the pet owner will pay.
My point? Who cares about which registry we use....we have a common need that goes beyond a piece of paper...its called the love of the breed...and if we are to protect our breeds and breeding rights, then we need to work together not bicker about who is better.

[Black GSD]

[quote name='TLCPETS']Yes ,GSD I think any-breed can be registered but APRI registered dogs have to have a link back to AKC stud books unlike the others.[/quote]
That is all well and fine. But I would think that there are a LOT of mutts out there that have a line back to an AKC dog somewhere even if it is 20 generations or more back. Does that mean that they shold all have papers? Mixed breeds are just that MIXED. Papers on mixed breeds are just another way to screw the public into thinking they are some new special breed that is worth a ton of money. It just makes my skin crawl that there are "registries" out there that give papers to mutts. Just like there are people out there breeding mutts on purpose, then charging several hundred dollars for the pups.

[Guest Anonymous]

As far as I am concerned TLC shouldn't even be arguing about her rights as a breeder until her dogs receive their health clearances. The idea of her laughing at the thought makes my skin crawl.

[quote]And those who don't think that AKC supports commercial breeders, is kidding yourself. [/quote]
Well at least it isn't in their danged FAQ that support for commercial breeders and those who sell their pups to petstores is one of their primary reasons for existence!

[quote]AKC now classifies any one who breeds, seven or more litters a year, as a high volume breeder. [/quote]
And I say [b]GOOD[/b]!

[quote]APRI is growing by 14,000 litter/puppy/dog registrations per month [/quote]
The AKC registration for just Labs at over 175,000 per year will be more than the entire ARPI registries yearly by itself. As I said before, these other, as Newfies so aptly put it, "joke registries", will fold before the AKC does. Using that fear as a basis for switching to the ARPI is as ridiculous.

[quote]And finally,The registry has nothing to do with a puppies quality.[/quote]

Registration does not imply quality, but which registry you use can certainly imply the lack thereof. And a lack of health checks [b]screams [/b]not only lack of quality but a lack of breeder ethics as well!

Later,
Trinity

[Guest roo]

I must admit i am finding this all very interesting :lol:
In the uk there is only one KENNEL CLUB, and i dont agree with everything they do but i think that is the way it should be, yes over here we have the dog lovers registry, but the pedigrees are not worth the paper they are written on :lol: And none of these dogs can be shown, so what would be the point of seeling them as show quality?

[Hobbit]

[quote name='Poofy']Did you know it is AGAINST the USDA rules to have breeding animals in your home? Thats right, no whelping puppies by your bed is allowed. You will *HAVE* to house your dogs, just like the commercial breeders, or be in contempt of the rules and regulations of the USDA. This type of regulation will also make the cost of dogs sky-rocket, and the pet owner will pay.
[/quote]


Please post the exact rule and regulation that says this. Hum.... I was unable to locate this on the USDA webpage. Maybe, I just missed it.

[Poofy]

If you read the USDA rules, your house, would contain to many "contaminates" or dangers to the dogs.

As for "good" for the breeding more then seven litters a year, classifies you as a high volume...wake up and smell some reality. Some people being classified as this DON'T even BREED dogs. they simply have their names as "co-owner" on several dogs...usually to help with the carreer of a dog being shown. Many of the top kennels out there, will be classified as HVB....you might be suprised to find out who.

[eggrolyn1223]

UGH!!!!!!!!!! :mad: THESE PEOPLE!!!!!!!! :evil: I AM SOO MAD!!!!!! :x

[Hobbit]

[quote name='Poofy']If you read the USDA rules, your house, would contain to many "contaminates" or dangers to the dogs.

As for "good" for the breeding more then seven litters a year, classifies you as a high volume...wake up and smell some reality. Some people being classified as this DON'T even BREED dogs. they simply have their names as "co-owner" on several dogs...usually to help with the carreer of a dog being shown. Many of the top kennels out there, will be classified as HVB....you might be suprised to find out who.[/quote]

[b]AGAIN --- POST THE WEBSITE ADDRESS SO THIS CAN BE READ! [/b]

[TLCPETS]

Yes,AWA laws are hard.I was USDA licensed for exotics.Hedgehogs and sugargliders with 3 dogs.Everything on the premises falls under USDA when you have a license.It is not easy but with the judges waiting to give thier decision and the collie show breeder who just had all 172 of her collies confiscated on the canadian border it is not looking good for any breeder who is not USDA licensed.Personally, I think every breeder who sells one litter per year should be regulated by USDA.

[Poofy]

Like i said...its not that I think that having a liscense is bad...its just under the current rules and regs with the USDA, such as having to have a vet on the premisis or on "call" would be difficult for a lot of people. Some of the housing requirements would make having your breeding animals in your home, a violation. I could not imagine lkeeping my dogs isolated out in a building, never to enjoy them as I do.
My state *requires* a breeder, even one litter per year, to be liscensed.
But, there are so few inspectors, the only people who abide by the laws are the honest ones. I am afraid that will be all that will happen when it comes to USDA.

[Poofy]

I replied to the request for a website, but apparently it did not go through.

Any how, believe it or not, not all information comes via the world wide web. The info I recieved came from our local agriculture inspector animal protection division.
I will look and see if I can find the information, via the web, but the USDA site litterally has dozens if not hundreds of pages reguarding animal husbandry. Its very difficult to weed through it and find dog specific info.