TLCPETS

[quote name='JudyHoffman']I may misunderstand, so please be patient. <<<Are you saying that you would breed a litter and keep all the puppies (not sell them) and then breed those puppies back to each other to improve your bloodlines?>>>> No this is not what I am saying. <<<Wouldn't this be considered inbreeding or linebreeding and if so, wouldn't that cause severe genetic problems with any offspring eventually?>>>> Not neccesarily. Inbreeding/linebreeding doesnt create problems. It merely brings hidden problems to the forefront (ie) recessive to recessive genes. <<<I think over time you would be causing more harm to your bloodlines than good and not it's not very ethical IMVHO. I heard of a Belgian Sheepdog breeder who did this very same thing with 4 littermates. Her goal was to have a 10 generation pedigree just off of the original 4 dogs ...... I believe the results were so disastrous health wise, she never bred or had another dog again.>>> I think this lady should have done her homework on genetics. <<<If this is true then the breeder is somewhat responsible for what happens to the pup. It is up to the breeder to conduct a thorough screening and reference checking before placing a pup, whether free or not.[/QUOTE]>>> True, but people do lie.

How ethical would it be for a breeder to breed only to improve thier bloodline? No puppies would be outed to the public. All puppies not kept by breeder for breeding/show purposes would be euthanized. I am so tired of all the breeder titles that comes with selling puppies, and if you give them away......it's worse. 9 times out of 10 a free dog/puppy is a mistreated dog/puppy. Would this be responsible, ethical or what? Edit: Why not spay/neuter? Because I dont breed to furnish no one with puppies but myself. I dont need to sell puppies to support my hobby.

[quote name='TLCPETS']You can call me anything that makes you or anyone else happy. Here is an email I have received twice. <<<<Dear Tomtom, We have no papers, But she is full blooded Chihuahua. We live in TX. She's a fawn color [beige, and off white] with white socks, and a white mark on her forehead. Her mother Prissy, is the same color. Short haired and short legged. Father was tan with white markings, short haired, and tall. Both parents are also full blooded. We're not interested in selling any of the puppy's if we breed her. Lil Bit is like one of my kids, actually she is better then my kids. If I can't find a male, then I've decided to get her fixed. If you can't help me, do you know anyone who might be able to? >>>> My reply was: <<<<< It sounds like you really love your dog.In my opinion you should just buy another puppy.In all reality your girl could require a c-section to get the puppies and you could very well lose her in the process, and the puppies.You will still have to pay vet cost.I dont think I am interested.>>>>> I hope I was not rude but got my point across.[/quote] Last email: tom tom Thank you very much,I'm going to do just that. I have my first grandbaby on the way. I want lil bit to be here for along time. You have a nice weekend..

[quote name='roo']:WTF:[/quote] :niewiem:

You can call me anything that makes you or anyone else happy. Here is an email I have received twice. <<<<Dear Tomtom, We have no papers, But she is full blooded Chihuahua. We live in TX. She's a fawn color [beige, and off white] with white socks, and a white mark on her forehead. Her mother Prissy, is the same color. Short haired and short legged. Father was tan with white markings, short haired, and tall. Both parents are also full blooded. We're not interested in selling any of the puppy's if we breed her. Lil Bit is like one of my kids, actually she is better then my kids. If I can't find a male, then I've decided to get her fixed. If you can't help me, do you know anyone who might be able to? >>>> My reply was: <<<<< It sounds like you really love your dog.In my opinion you should just buy another puppy.In all reality your girl could require a c-section to get the puppies and you could very well lose her in the process, and the puppies.You will still have to pay vet cost.I dont think I am interested.>>>>> I hope I was not rude but got my point across.

[quote]Out Crossing is often done in a breeding program to bring in somthing that is lacking.[/quote] And should be done with caution since you can also bring in flaws that your original line does not have.JMO. :)

[quote name='Prairie_Gurl']LOL. So, out crossing means to breed your dog to a dog that isn't closely related to your own dog, but staying in the same breed. In Breeding is when you breed your dog to one of his/her sisters, brothers, mother, or father. And Line Breeding is when you breed your dog to another dog pretty closely related (grandparent, uncle,etc.) but not part of it's immidiate family like in breeding. But you totally lost me there on that whole 8th generation thing. Jez, this stuff is pretty complicated LOL.[/quote]] <<<But you totally lost me there on that whole 8th generation thing.>>. Ok up to 8 geneations they are line bred.After 8 generations it is "out crossed' since the inbreeding co-efficient would mean they were no longer as closely related . :)

Out crossing means breeding from a line far removed so as unrelated to your own line.But you do stay in the same breed. Line breeding is using dogs with a close inbreeding co-efficient uncle niece,aunt nephew, cousins,grandparents. In breeding is sire daughter,mother son,brother sister. I am going 1 step further(at my expense)With in a 7 generation pedigree it would be called line breeding as outlined above.After 7 generations even though related in the 8th generation it would be called an out cross. I hope I did not make any mistakes.LOL They love to correct me so now you will get your info. :fadein: :fadein:

[quote name='DogPaddle']I viewed a few sites before I joined this one. Reasons I chose this board: [color=green][size=6]1) People are freindly and knowledable.[/size][/color] 2) There were few flamers or trolls. 3) People expressed there opinions well. 3) The site was well organized and covered a variety of topics. People here answered my questions, helped me, didn't flame me, asked questions if I didn't explain myself fully. They didn't become my bestest freinds and flock to me for guidance just because I joined this forum. K is a valuable member of this site, almost everyone here knows that, nothing else to say on that topic. Anywho I think we should all have cookies an milk now, who's turn is it too read the storey?[/quote] Mine: puppy kisses are GREAT and dog licks are bettter.LOL If a puppy/dog can not make it better IT IS a lost situation.

[quote name='Poofy']Yes, your right, true "blue" is dilution of color..the trick though would be trying to help some one understand the difference so that the genetics could be worked out...[/quote] Yes but 2 blues and a black in a litter from a blue and a brown sable makes it hard.And then three blues from a blk/wht female and a blue male all the puppies are from light to dark blue makes it harder.You can tell by looking at littermates the darker the blue is the better the hair coat.

GOSH

[quote name='Hobbit']Not all dogs that are being shown are worthy of being bred. There are many dogs that are being shown that should be spayed or neutered, but aren't.[/quote] Hobbit I agree. I think the future holds all dogs shown will have to have all health testing done before they are allowed in the show ring.I wonder which registry will require it first or if a new registry who only shows proven healthy dogs within the breed standard to be shown.With the changes in the last 5 years or so.Imagine 5 years from now.

[quote name='Jacsmom'][url]http://www.geocities.com/Petsburgh/1495/disorders.html[/url] Here are disorders in Chi's There is a page 2.[/quote] Thanks Jacsmom.There are lots of places on the net with good info.I have lots of them bookmarked and read alot.I still get links I have never found.

New year new priorities, I really know you are good with genetics.But it does take time and understanding.As you know my breed is Chihuahuas and I love blues. I have come to think the color. Alopecia is coming from the breeding of Fawn to blues and blue to blue.I think the link in blue Alopecia in Chihuahuas stems from the dilute to dilute breedings.The blues really got big after the Fawns(taco bell dog)I know you are a schnauzer breeder but know genetics pretty well.If I breed black and white and blue together can I still get my blues without having to worry years down the road about Alopecia.Ther must be a way and I do love the blue coloring.It seems like the darker the blue the better the hair coat and the lighter the blue the thinner the coat.There is a way, if No-one can find a link between fawn (dilute) and blue (dilute) being what causes Alopecia I will stick with Blk/Wht.I really want to get a healthy blue going but will not jeopardize health over color.

[quote name='TLCPETS'][quote name='Hobbit']Oh yeah, I am very much aware of USDA rules and reg's. As far as AKC .... have nothing to do with them.[/quote] Aren't they the ones who cover all the breeders USDA doesnt???? ROTFLMAO.[/quote] They can promise who the sire was, but not the dam, or the health of the sire/dam.Can They?